More Proof That Joan Crawford Was A Horrible Mother

Categories: Joan Crawford

Christina-and-Joan-Crawford.jpg

Just in case any more happened to be needed.

I recently discovered Helen Hayes's memoir, in which the grande dame talks about becoming an unlikely friend of Joan Crawford starting in the '30s, possibly because Helen didn't pose a threat to Joan's movie allure.

But years later, Helen got into trouble when she decided to make some nice gestures in honor of Joan's son Christopher's birthday.

She festooned her dressing room with balloons and a "Happy Birthday, Christopher" sign, throwing Joanie into a hemorrhoidal rage.

Writes Hayes, "She resented turning his birthday into a celebration."

Furthermore, whenever Helen had lunch with the Crawford clan, Helen noticed that if the kids dared to speak, Joan would angrily snap them into silence.

After that, they had to say, "Mommie dearest, may I speak?" and wait for the dragon lady's approval.

Worst of all, poor Christina was forced to stay at school all summer, when there was practically no one else there.

Joan's rationale for this abuse? This way, Christina would realize how she was much better off at home!

At one point, concerned onlooker Dinah Shore begged Helen to do something to stop the heinous treatment, but Helen knew that Joan would never change, and besides, the intervention might even fuel her into larger fits of rage against the kids.

Case closed.

Oh, I hope I was allowed to speak, reader dearest.



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120 comments
ralphfdny
ralphfdny

I was her chauffeur in N.Y.C no problem 

russellsmith1903
russellsmith1903

This is the story of my life that i am still pondering upon even as i write this article.I maybe judged and i may not be but even if i am judged, no one can ever know my real personality or family.I have been asking myself if i should let the world know about this or maybe i should just keep it to myself cos most people might think am crazy.All the same am telling my story.I live in Bordeaux, France with my husband and four kids and we have a happy family.It wasn't always just like that.Before my husband, i have been married to five different men.Yeah five, all five marriages failed after six months not cos we had problems or the relationships was on the rock they just come and go without good reason.It was easy to say i was cured by someone or something.I had a feeling there was something about me that wasn't just appealing in the site of all the men that claimed to love me to death.The entire puzzle of my life just seem to fall into place when i met my present husband i fall hardly in love with him like he also did.It was all in his eye that he loved me with all he's got.Yeah we got married but just after the first six months as always he just wanted out as every other man that i was married to.I never really wanted to let go of any of my ex husband i was willing to fight for the marriage but they bluntly weren't ready for that.But this, i just got tired of same old same old thing just wanted a steady marriage with the love of my life.I tried marriage counseling with him which is suppose to me the best way to resolving marital problem but he was like its been tattooed in his mind that he wanted out of our marriage.I WANT TO LEAVE A QUESTION FOR ANYONE READING THIS CAN A WOMAN REALLY BE HAPPY OR FEEL COMPETE WHEN EVERY OF HER MARRIAGE FAILS.CAN A WOMAN EVER FEEL LIKE THEY BELONG IN THE SOCIETY WHEN EVERY MAN SHE IS MARRIED TO REJECT HER AFTER A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME WITHOUT ANY COURSE?FOR ME MY ANSWER IS A NO COS I KNOW HOW HARD IT WAS FOR ME AND MY FAMILY IT AFFECTED ME PSYCHOLOGICALLY BUT I WAS TOO STRONG TO BREAK DOWN COS I HARD TO FIGHT FOR KIDS WHO LOOK AT THEIR MOM AS INVINCIBLE AND STRONG.Honestly don't know how and when i contacted a spell caster to help me.AT FIRST IT WAS JUST TO SEE HOW TRUE AND HOW HE COULD REALLY HELP ME FIX MY PROBLEM LITTLE DID I KNOW IT WAS HE SOLUTION TO MY GRIEVING PAIN.His name IS DR IGODO i think he was of great help cos i honest remember that he helped me save my marriage and made me helped myself to feel loved again.Its being one year and six months exactly since he cast a spell to make my husband stay till dead do us part and my husband is still with me now and we are happy and in love just like how we were for the first six months.I will be fully convinced if we get to celebrity our 50th year anniversary.I don't want any body to see this article like it was meant to make you contact him.I am just sharing my experience on how DR IGODO helped me restore my marriage with spell casting and i should tell you he does not charge for his services all you are to do is to provide materials he will be needing for the spell casting.If you feel he can help you solve any of your problem contact him here.....greatigodospelltemple@gmail.com.....or on his cell phone number..08084267780.







russellsmith1903
russellsmith1903

name is russell i will like us to share tips on how to identify a
real
spell caster cos alot of people have fallen victim of scam as i
have come
across lots of comments lately (i was a victim too) and from
experience and
what i know i decide to open this thread, only fake spell casters
ask for
the followings:
COURIER CHARGES: no matter where you are in the world, no
matter the
distance and continent a real spell caster will cast a spell
effectively
without you seeing it or the spell caster getting it to you to use it
so
long as he has the names or pix..the spell will work itself..
STRAIGHT: no excuses for failure, if money was needed in the
first place
for courier he should have say so, so one can know how
prepared he is..i
did rather pay $2000 at once to get my result rather than paying
$200 for
excuses to get more money..its not bad paying for items but the
end result
might be an excuse
THREAT: if you get fed up of sending money after money, they
begin to
threaten one with death and madness..
NIGERIA; about 80% of them are nigerians not saying they dont
have real
spell casters cos they are spiritually gifted in africa but the
impersonation is too much, the fake are more than the real..
  i fell a victim of scam twice to a certain dr wodu and dr isaka
they but
ripped me to shred before i realised almost $3700 was gone until
i came
across dr igodo who told me how to know a fake spell caster, he
helped me
get my ex back without failure or excuse in 5 days..we are back
and happy
now for about a month..his e-mail is
greatigodospelltemple@gmail.com..
lets beware of scammers and share experience, suggestion and
solutions..thanks

akhidenorlovespell
akhidenorlovespell

i just want to share my experience and testimony here.. i was married for 6 years to my husband and all of a sudden, another woman came into the picture.. he started hailing me and he was abusive. but i still loved him with all my heart and wanted him at all cost…then he filed for divorce. my whole life was turning apart and i didn’t know what to do .he moved out of the house and abandoned the kids.. so someone told me about trying spiritual means to get my husband back and introduced me to a spell caster…so i decided to try it reluctantly. although i didn’t believe in all those things… then when he consulted his gods and cast a return and love spell, after 3days, my husband came back and was pleading. he had realized his mistakes. I just couldn’t believe it. .anyways we are back together now and we are happy. in case anyone needs this man, his email address is eromosalspiritualtemple@gmail.com or thought hid website http://eromosalspiritualtemple.webs.com or call him with +2348161850195

i just want to share my experience and testimony here.. i was married for 6 years to my husband and all of a sudden, another woman came into the picture.. he started hailing me and he was abusive. but i still loved him with all my heart and wanted him at all cost…then he filed for divorce. my whole life was turning apart and i didn’t know what to do .he moved out of the house and abandoned the kids.. so someone told me about trying spiritual means to get my husband back and introduced me to a spell caster…so i decided to try it reluctantly. although i didn’t believe in all those things… then when he consulted his gods and cast a return and love spell, after 3days, my husband came back and was pleading. he had realized his mistakes. I just couldn’t believe it. .anyways we are back together now and we are happy. in case anyone needs this man, his email address is eromosalspiritualtemple@gmail.com or thought hid website http://eromosalspiritualtemple.webs.com or call him with +2348161850195

akhidenorlovespell
akhidenorlovespell

Hi My name is 'Bruno Rico' just want to share my experience with the world on how i got my love back and saved my marriage... I was married for 7years with 2kids and we lived happily until things started getting ugly and we had fights and arguments almost every time... it got worse at a point that she filed for divorce... I tried my best to make her change her mind & stay with me cause i loved her with all my heart and didn't want to loose her but everything just didn't work out... she moved out of the house and still went ahead to file for divorce... I pleaded and tried everything but still nothing worked. The breakthrough came when someone introduced me to this wonderful, great spell caster who eventually helped me out... I have never been a fan of things like this but just decided to try reluctantly cause I was desperate and left with no choice... He did special prayers and used roots and herbs... Within 7 days she called me and was sorry for all the emotional trauma she had cost me, moved back to the house and we continue to live happily, the kids are happy too and we are expecting our third child. I have introduced him to a lot of couples with problems across the world and they have had good news... Just thought I should share my experience cause I strongly believe someone out there need's it... You can email his email him with eromosalspiritualtemple@gmail.com or thought his website http://eromosalspiritualtemple.webs.com or call him with +2348161850195

kkduckcolson
kkduckcolson

I just watched "Mommie Dearest" again last night, only think on and full of mindless entertainment value.  Do I believe everything in the movie?  Of course not, it is a Hollywood movie, it's going to be over the top.  So today I am going through all the pros and cons website to Christina's story,  The pro Joan people keep referring to one of the twins claiming Christina is a liar and Joan was a wonderful mother.  Am I the only one a little disturbed about this twin's constant use of the word "Mommie" when she is in her 40's and 50's referring to her mother?  To me it is beyond creepy and proves something was not at all right in Joan Crawford's house while those kids were growing up. 

rohan12
rohan12

So if you don't see it that means a child has not been abused??Funny I have never seen a murder commited so that means it never happens??

DREA0223
DREA0223

I find it absolutely disturbing that some people commented here calling the victim names!

I've seen 3 different documentaries about Joan Crawford and for the most part she consistently is known for her alcoholism and both mental and physical abuse to the two older children. That woman had NO business adopting children.

Oh and just because Joan didn't abuse the younger kids really doesn't mean anything! There are other instances where a unbalanced abusive parent will favor one child and abuse another.

I'm not saying Christina turned out to be a great person. However, I also think, how ever could she with a mother like that.

If this happened today I believe Joan Crawford would have been completely ostracized from her peers and the kids would have been removed from the home. It was a different time, beating a child was called discipline.

I was most suprised that Joan Crawford acted like a nut job outside the home as well. Usually abusive people try to hide it. She spent a good portion of her life addicted to alcohol and it made her behave like a tyrant.

saradawnc
saradawnc

If Christina's own godmother Myrna Loy called Christina a "horrible girl" and "believe me, there were many times i wanted to smack her myself" then you know Christina mustve been a real bitch.

dcjrb
dcjrb

I think the whole Joan Crawford abuse thing has pretty much been debunked.  Her other children say it never happened.   The woman was like 5 feet two inches could she really have physically  terrorized her teenaged daughter as in that campy movie? Doubtful! Many others have come forward saying what a terrible child and scheming adult Christina was .. her own godmother Myrna Loy never spoke to her after the book.     

bbtxok
bbtxok

 I can tell you from experience even non-famous people can "act" and these abusive people are VERY GOOD at "acting" a certain way for different "audiences".   When they are around "some" people they show ONE side of themselves, around others, another.  They can FOOL LEGIONS of people.  They can be the sweetest people in one arena, and the devil in another.  I believe they learn to do this in their OWN childhood to deal with the abuse they suffered as a child.  Acting one way to "hide" the shame becomes second nature.  So when they become an adult and REPEAT the abuse they grew up on their own children, the skill at "acting" in different Company, is first rate.  The people that only see the "Good Side" of them will NEVER EVER be convinced their "friend" could EVER be the monster they actually are.  And one should NEVER forget (should never, but they always do) these cruelties are inflicted on a CHILD (HELLO) and what seems like a MINOR incident to the "supporters" and NON-Believers can have a CATASTROPHIC impact on the child.  People that have NOT grown up with this will NEVER understand.  People that HAVE can spot it a MILE OFF (that is IF they have any emotional integrity left intact themselves).  That is another part of the conundrum.  Some people, just do not have the "radar" to detect it and these are the people the dysfunctional devil will most often show their Good Side to because these people are the easiest to FOOL  It is 'automatic' with them.  These abusive people don't waste time TRYING to fool people they innately KNOW they cannot fool.  They put on their "act" for the ones they NEED to fool and the ones that are EASY to fool.  You have to live with it to know.

bbtxok
bbtxok

 I can tell you from experience even non-famous people can "act" and these abusive people are VERY GOOD at "acting" a certain way for different "audiences".   When they are around "some" people they show ONE side of themselves, around others, another.  They can FOOL LEGIONS of people.  They can be the sweetest people in one arena, and the devil in another.  I believe they learn to do this in their OWN childhood to deal with the abuse they suffered as a child.  Acting one way to "hide" the shame becomes second nature.  So when they become an adult and REPEAT the abuse they grew up on their own children, the skill at "acting" in different Company, is first rate.  The people that only see the "Good Side" of them will NEVER EVER be convinced their "friend" could EVER be the monster they actually are.  And one should NEVER forget (should never, but they always do) these cruelties are inflicted on a CHILD (HELLO) and what seems like a MINOR incident to the "supporters" and NON-Believers can have a CATASTROPHIC impact on the child.  People that have NOT grown up with this will NEVER understand.  People that HAVE can spot it a MILE OFF (that is IF they have any emotional integrity left intact themselves).  That is another part of the conundrum.  Some people, just do not have the "radar" to detect it and these are the people the dysfunctional devil will most often show their Good Side to because these people are the easiest to FOOL  It is 'automatic' with them.  These abusive people don't waste time TRYING to fool people they innately KNOW they cannot fool.  They put on their "act" for the ones they NEED to fool and the ones that are EASY to fool.  You have to live with it to know.

truth.speaker
truth.speaker

Christina was just jealous of her mom, because she wasn't half as successful or pretty as Joan was. And Joan was sweet and vulnerable, according to many of her acquaintances! And furthermore, it was very sweet of Joan to adopt children, and give them food and a house, rather then suffering at an orphanage. And Helen Hayes, and Bette Davis were just jealous of Joan (even though I have no clue why Bette was, she was amazing) and if something really was happening, someone would have reported it and the law would have took action, so its all lies people. Christina just wanted attention, and she got it,  in a sick, cheap, unforgiving, and cunning way.

paparachito
paparachito

Well... its not like Helen was that great neither. Why didnt she go and help those kids?. She could have done it, she could have gone and say to a specialist, or children care or whatever institute or fund or whatever part of the government to help those kids. But she didnt. She kept silent, just letting her "bestie" 'abuse' those kids.

I havent read anything abusive in your post. Snapping fingers so they would be silent?. My parents did the same, they used to hush me when sitting in the table and they wouldnt let me speak unless someone finished speaking and adults always had the priority for talking.

I dont deny probably Joan was unstable due to the alcohol, but I cant really believe Christina when after a long time she admited that the "hangers" story was made up. Now then how many made up things are?.

Also for being someone who cannot forgive her mother what she has done... she still carries her surname without any problem but doesnt want to carry her husband surname. Go figure!.

SMW
SMW

I was emotionally and psychologically abused by a mother much like Joan Crawford.

I guess I was fortunate that unlike Christina, my mother did not physically abuse me.  Through the therapy I've been in for the past few years, I've discovered that my mother suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

People with that disorder have no empathy and absolutely everything is about them.  Never about you.  You, as their victim, have no needs, no feelings, nothing.  You are nothing but an extension of them.

Joan Crawford is a classic narcissist.  Her abuse of Christina and Christopher is almost right out of an NPD's handbook.  I hope that Christina and Christopher (before his death) got some counseling to heal from the wounds inflicted on them.

I adore Joan Crawford as an actress.  She is one of my all-time favorites.  But I cannot forget that the greatest weapon an NPD has is their surface illusion that they are a good parent -- my mother's greatest illusion.

I'm still working through pain and regret, as well as through post-traumatic stress to find some peace.  I'm still looking for mine.  I hope that Christina Crawford has found hers.

Jhburch
Jhburch

All a bunch of bull. Helen Hayes is not a reliable source. Furthermore in those days children were taught to be more obedient and respectful and nit to speak out of turn in from of adults. If only parents would be more disciplined today about teaching their children manners and respect we might not have the problems with Kidd we do today. And Joan wanted her children to grow up and not be spoiled Hollywood brats. And no writer dearest, you may NOT speak unless you were alive and witnessed these events yourself!

Jhburch
Jhburch

I am responding to all of thr Bi-Polar comments. I am Bi-Polar and am on medication for 2yrs so fsr. Doing better. I remember a time in my 20's I was OBSESSED with cleaning and being perfect, I was moody etc. i am in my 40's now and on meds and am soo much better. Yes Crawford was probably Bi-Polar, but much was not known about that then. Doesnt make you a bad person, just make you better and easier for others to live with you if you are on meds!

Ammie
Ammie

@kkduckcolson I don't think it was an exaggeration at all.  That movie is like textbook Narcissistic Personality Disorder with some Histrionic Personality Disorder in the mix too. 

Joan Crawford was a monster to her daughter and son. 

Abusers are good at hiding it, and those that criticize Christina are only victimizing the victim all over again. 

jscottolavino
jscottolavino

@saradawnc So your theory goes like this: "Because Christina was badly behaved she could never have been abused as a child."?  Or is it: "Because Christina was badly behaved she DESERVED to be abused as a child."  I'm having trouble parsing your meaning.  Please advise.

LAsux
LAsux

@dcjrb No it has not been debunked and if you knew anything about child abuse, you wiould know that just because the 'twins' were not abused does not negate Christina AND Christopher's experience.  And Vincent Sherman along with Helen Hayes WITNESSED Joan's tirades against the two eldest.  

itsmeheatherc23
itsmeheatherc23

@dcjrb Just Because she was 5'2 she couldn't physically terrorize her teenaged daughter. everyone knows Joan had a little problem with alcohol and when you have mental issues (Joan being abused as a child herself) and having an addiction. anything is possible.. I'm not saying that Joan did abuse her older kids and i'm not saying she didn't. also her other children could be in denial about everything and want their mothers legacy to be known that joan was an great actress and an amazing mother. Just because Christina exaggerated in her book, doesn't mean that any of the accusations she has said about her mother are true or not true. we will never know what really did happen because this all came out after Joan had passed away. just because Christina's godmother never spoke to her again after the book came out, doesn't mean that she might know deep in her heart that Christina is telling the truth.Others have come forward saying that Joan wasn't abusive to her older children but there is also people that have come forward saying that yes Joan was abusive to her children. Have you ever thought that Christina was a terrible child and a scheming adult because she was abused by her mother..? During this time period nobody ever gave a second thought to seeing a mother spank her child etc. some people might know what went on behind closed doors but Joan being as famous as she was they might not have wanted to say anything. 

saradawnc
saradawnc

If Christina was really a victim of abuse, she would be advocating for it instead of hanging out with drag queens and handing out decorated wire hangers at Christmas parties (which she denies being beaten with btw).

poohbear
poohbear

@bbtxok I watched the movie many years ago and couldn't believe how much the "no wire hangers" (and the rose-hacking scene) brought back memories of my own childhood. My own "mommie dearest" was a pillar of the community, went to church all the time, fooled EVERYONE except the poor unfortunates who had to live with her. I ran into an old childhood friend who said she thought our family was like the Brady Bunch. They are that good. I am not a mental health professional, but I suspect such "mothers" suffer from narcissism...it's all about them, and everyone around is there for the sole purpose of meeting THEIR needs, and heaven help the child who doesn't know her rightful place as a loyal subject. My "mother" has done nothing but wreak havoc, tried to break up her children's marriages, refused to be a grandmother to children whose mom she doesn't happen to like (what better way to hurt someone, than to pretend her children don't exist), bad-mouthed and slandered people she's supposed to love and support, you name it. But from her side of the story, she's a wonderful person with a pack of ungrateful rotten kids...I've even been told she has letters she's written to all of us to be delivered after she dies, so she can get in the last word. She doesn't see what she's done as abuse, because such people have no empathy for anyone else's feelings but their own. Sorry to JC fans if I have no sympathy toward a person that even remotely reminds me of what I grew up with...bbtxok, you are spot on.

Ammie
Ammie

@truth.speaker The law would NOT have taken action in those days. They let women be battered without jailing husbands.

And it seems to me Joan was the one that was jealous of her daughter. Joan was an unrepentant narcissist.

LAsux
LAsux

@truth.speaker BWAH!  Joan = 'sweet & vulnerable'????  And those kids were NOT legally adopted, they were BOUGHT.  And child abuse like many other topics in those days were not discussed, let alone 'reported'.  Helen Hayes, the First Lady of the american theatre and 10 x oscar nominated, Bette = jealous of Joan, LMAO! 

bbtxok
bbtxok

I don't believe it.  BBTXOK

Ammie
Ammie

@paparachito Helen said the children would suffer Joan's wrath even more if she brought it up. 

Christina confided in school officials at one of her schools about her mom's abuse and Joan removed her from the school.

amy_l_sturgeon2003
amy_l_sturgeon2003

I'm coming into this very late in the game I know, but I stumbled upon this discussion after doing a little digging on famous mothers that are strongly suspected to have had narcisssistic personality disorder. Joan had all the hallmarks of a classic textbook narcissist. It lends itself very well to show business. The other thing that influences the treatment of children by narcissitic parents is their temperament. I have listened to Christina speak & she sounds like a woman of intelligence, as Joan was too (although not a highly educated one). The more a child questions, strikes out in an effort to have their own idenity, their own style of beauty, personal relationships & opinions (including ones on the way they are being treated) the more a narcissistic parent feels the need to keep them in line. I read somewhere that her biological father was an engineer & her mother was a student. They obviously had some grey matter to pass on between them. The younger children who claim not to have had the same treatment might've had more complient/docile personalities that were not a threat to the narcissitic mother. Also the family dynamics created by narcissisitc parents often involve 'scapegoats' & 'golden children'. The golden children are often involved with blaming the scapegoat & are given the message that its A OK to basically pick on & mentally/physically torture them as the parent(s) are doing too. These people sometimes never gain perspective on what has happenened or how they have been used in the whole scheme of things. They have managed to win love from the parent via compliance, as has his/her co-dependent partner.

I don't doubt Christina's experience for a second. I plan to read her book. Just because a parent provides for a child's material needs does not mean they are equipped to provide for their emotional needs. Narcissistic parents exist in all walks of life.

pinesp
pinesp

@SMW I empathise with you...my mother was bipolar with Borderline Personality Disorder and was physically abusive...in fact my mother behaved exactly the same way  - except she wasn't an alcoholic.  Like you said, Joan (and my mother) had no empathy and absolutely everything is about them.  Never about you.  You, as their victim, have no needs, no feelings, nothing.  You are nothing but an extension of them.  Could not have put it any better!

And just because people say they never saw the abuse, does not mean that Christina is lying.  Child abuse happens behind closed doors, away from prying eyes.  Children do not lie about this kind of pain.  People who  have  not experienced this kind of abuse have no idea idea the type of psychological impact is has on children.  

Anyone who thinks this is a lie and thinks others cannot side with Christina Crawford is a hypocrite, including @Jhburch.  Were you there to confirm or dispute these events?  Probably not.......so @Jhburch dearest, you may NOT speak unless you were alive and witnessed these events yourself!

RobbieS25
RobbieS25

@Jhburch not too bright, are you

adrenaline_livewire
adrenaline_livewire

@Jhburch @Jhburch Like you? Huh? Like when you were there and witnessed the events (or lack there of)?

Readers: Of course u may speak.

Writer: Of course you may speak.

You dayum sure dont need my permission or approval but Jhburch over here is delusional and a hypocrite thinking he or she is bossing over like that and also thinks his or her own words excludes him or her. Lets face it, Jhburch WAS NOT there either yet thinks people MAY NOT speak unless they were there....this does not extend to him (or her)though!

CLASSIC NARCISSISM!

Jon b
Jon b

Seems most people have some psych issue these days  and meds are over prescribed but you're doing the right thing and by being so honest you'll inspire those around you and other readers of this comment to have an open dialogue ,its nothing to be ashamed of.yes its too bad Joan and everyone else in that era chain smoked cigarettes drank excessively and all but that was their medication caffeine alcohol  and cigarettes and plenty of them , I too have OCD bipolar take lamictal it works. Well too bad stars of that era were hesitant to get help , but it'd definitely did not look so well to make those problems public , such a bad stigma attached to mental disorders back then . I often think of Marilyn Monroe's public breakdowns , what a mess that created for her and what a shame it all was .Judy Garland also became dependent on speed and downers because LB Mayer thought she was gaining a lil too much weight so @ the cafeteria for the kids on the lot they hardly let her eat and instead pumped her full of ups and downs .Much respect to you Jhburch for being so honest and when you have a "disorder " of your own its much easier to look at others with more sympathy and knowledge on what they may have been going through not feel superior to them but gain a little insight into how peoples behavior like Crawford probably wasn't always perfect but very human  she had a thing for being nervous especially at premiers of her filmsI recently got "grand hotel " from Netflix and one of the extras had the LA premier of the film in 1932 , she arrived with Douglas Fairbanks jr. and when Conrad Nagel asked if she wanted to say a few words after she signed in to the grand hotel guest book she said she was much to nervous , imagine that Joan Crawford nervous in public ? I cannot believe Musto's infatuation with bashing Joan especially providing so called  "proof" from  nothing other than here say from Helen Hayes of all people about how much abuse happened . I think if anyone threw another parents kid an unexpected b day bash they'd be considered weird and nutty today I dont think it really counted as abuse towards christopher that his mother was pissed most parents today would be outraged if they weren't told of a party for their own kids. Its one thing to throw a kid a surprise celebration its quite another not to let the parent in on the surprise element .As for Joan hushing the kids  at  dinner , children were meant to be seen not heard back then im only 38 and when i was growing up we had huge family gatherings for holidays at my grandmothers house in suburban Long Island with all the older wiser generation ,they didn't want us exposed to adult talk , dirty jokes ,  playing cards,  smoking drinking etc.... not such a travesty as some who take themselves too seriously have mentioned on this thread , christina was a snake for not releasing the book before joan died unlike bette davis she was unable to go on a tour to tell her side of  the story and from what I've heard joan found out christina was publishing a nasty distorted book and thats why joan toom her out of the will. Funny that I've been a loyal fan for 30 years  of my life always learning more and reading watching etc everything Crawford, everyone else seems to just draw their opinion on joan from the one source,  an  over the top ridiculous and campy caricature  faye Dunaway created .That film has deep flaws in narrative filmmaking as roger Ebert pointed out ,a  deeply flawed film which left out major things like joan was married when she got christina , to Philip terry from 39 -43 and she wasn't  dating greg bautzer (that part was in the late 40's) also there never was a real life Carol Anne etc and all .I wouldn't call it proof the altered reality christina lives in (in THE WILL: FAMILY SECRETS REVEALED , Christina actually stuck to and believed her own wacko story that Joan changed her will and took the two older kids out of the will in 1956 when Christina bailed out the always rebellious loser of a son Christopher when in fact Casey LaLonde , Joans grandson from Catherine explained the truth with facts Catherine was given all Joans property and materials even the will he had "PROOF"  that Joan changed the will in 76 or 77 right before she died indicating that she was probably tipped off by someone in the publishing world,  after all Joan had many friends and was part of all these industries from their early incarnations dating back to 1925 )Sighting  the ramblings of an old jealous maid like helen hayes as  further "proof" of "abuse" by  mr musto's only shows how desperate he is  for attention of his own since the village voice as ashton kutcher pointed out in a much publicized dispute w musto  is made up of sex slaves disguising as escorts and massage experts , nearly half the paper are call girls russian brides asian whores in/ out by the hr overworked and underpaid trafficked sex slaves from Russia asia etc,talk about child abuse and abuse towards women who have been forced into and probably tricked into this country with promises of a better life and a rosie existence in the USA .... ugh i cant stand hypocrites who think they're holier than thou preach anti child abuse and then work for a declining dinosaur of a once all knowing dominant and "alternative"  publication like the voice that has fallen on such hard times due to the ever evolving and rapidly growing young new media outlets etc and all that it has to sell all its advertisement space to organized porn human trafficking slave labor and forced prostitution , dreary and pathetic I hope the Voice goes bye bye and under ASAP ciao for now and like Musto's last words ill just say " oh I hope I was allowed to speak reader dearest " , he shouldn't be with "proof" like his he should show some dignity and stop pretending to be a fair  and unbiased thorough journalist and all 

saradawnc
saradawnc

@jscottolavino I was using Myrna Loy's words and what she ment was that Joan NEVER hit her children, but she could understand if Joan wanted to sometimes because Christina was so bad as a child that Myrna even wanted to give her a slap. It's like saying that Christina acted like "Veda" in "Mildred Pierce."

itsmeheatherc23
itsmeheatherc23

@saradawnc Look up Christina's wikipedia it say's she served 7 years as a member of the Los Angeles' Inter-Agency Council on Abuse and Neglect Associates.

exiene1
exiene1

@saradawnc How the HELL does hanging with Drag Queens prove a person was not abused. Please have a good answer with back-up replies as you do sound judgemental on many lifestyles that are not your own

watcherinthewoods
watcherinthewoods

@Jon b How the HELL does that "grandson" know what went on in that house in the 1940s?? Do I know what when on in my grandparent's house in Brooklyn, in 1947, no, just the vague stories I have been told. I couldn't defend them, any better than this Casey person.

saradawnc
saradawnc

@exiene1 Katharine Hepburn said: "I do not buy all that about Joan Crawford. Those kids were spoiled." So your statement is incorrect.

exiene1
exiene1

@saradawnc Nasty, no. Deeply condescending in tone and telling of your history and backround, Yes. If one thinks calling someone 'ignorant' is not insulting, I'm glad to be part of a different generation. Ms Crawford most likely mentally and physically abused he first 2 kids in conjuntion with how parents were allowed to discipline their kids and then take that 1-2 steps too far. Yet, by Christina's own admission in her book, she was a brat that knew how to push. For every Myrna Loy to defend, there was a Katherine Hepburn among others to say different. We will not know who was the worst in this . But mothers do tend to form the relationship with their behavior and both do need to be studied. Much like the woman commenting in this section.

saradawnc
saradawnc

No, you did not, but neither did I. I haven't considered anything you just said because it's how I use to think about the subject. But now, after reading different sources, my mind has been open to new conclusions and opinions which is what I have expressed in our conversation. I do not wish to discuss this anymore because I have said all that I needed to say. To each their own.

jscottolavino
jscottolavino

@saradawnc Has anything I said been nasty? Did I call you names or TYPE SENTENCES ON END IN ALL CAPS? You think you have an "open mind"? What, if anything, have I said at all that you have truly considered? What have you said that is educational? Remove our names and ask a stranger which of us is here to educate. And is it that you don't want to discuss anymore, or wish to have the last word? Very well then, have it.

saradawnc
saradawnc

@jscottolavino Ummm Joan isn't my hero LOL I just have great respect for every star of the golden age (Joan is actually my least fave) and take the time to read about them before forming an opinion. I think some people can be very ignorant towards most of them. I don't like hearsay and don't think it's right to base your opinions on something using something that has basically been debunked over the years. Even Christina said she exaggerated and also took A LOT of bad content out of the newest re-release of her novel. it makes no sense why people even talk about this subject to this day. If Christina's intent was to destroy her mother's legacy, then she has failed. Joan is still celebrated today, she still is getting new fans every day, he films are still on television (TCM named her star of the month for January 2014). I don't see how Christina being cut out of the will was much of a shock seeing as she hardly talked to her mother through the 1960s and not at all in the 1970s, so the "reaching an understanding" thing is basically lack of research on your part. They couldn't work anything out if they weren't talking. Joan even said this about there "feud": "Mother and daughter feuds make for reams in print; they also make for reams of inaccuracies: the greatest inaccuracy is the feud itself. It takes two to feud and I'm not one of them. I only wish the best for Tina." So that even shows that Tina wasn't talking to her mother. The only children Joan gave money to was Cathy and Cindy because they actually had a good relationship with their mom. Obviously her kids would get publicity because their mother was famous...people don't have kids because of publicity just because theyre famous themselves. If youre a child of a famous person you're going to be in the media. So Angelina and Brad adopted just for publicity? Not because they want to love and be loved? Joan had 7 miscarriages years before and was devastated because she wanted children so bad. She loved them. She spent a lot of time with her little niece Joan.  A lot of people lose touch with there parents..I lost touch with my father, other celebs like Veronica Lake, Barbara Stanwyck, etc lost touch with their kids but it doesn't mean they were abusing them. I really don't want to discuss this anymore...getting through to ignorant people is impossible. I guess my generation is just more opened minded and here to educate.

jscottolavino
jscottolavino

@saradawnc You are just lashing out because someone trashed your hero, as are people who say that the only reason for the book is being cut out of Joan's will. Christina doesn't entirely deny it, but it's less about revenge and more about striking back. Pearl Jam calls it, "Unleashing a lion." You see Christina had thought that through much talk, she had reached an understanding with her mother. Regardless, when someone who abused you as a child passes away you can't help but breathe a sigh of relief. In a very real sense, they can't hurt you anymore. But Christina wasn't expecting to get gut-punched at the reading of the will. It was obvious from her mother's words that nothing had been worked out at all. It's not about the money. Trust me, you don't WANT the freaking money from them. It was the principle of the thing. So Christina struck back by taking away the thing Joan Crawford treasured most: her legacy. Because it certainly wasn't Christina or any of the other adopted kids. Only there for appearances and publicity--something to be prodded and tortured at will when you're having a bad day, or you just want to feel superior. Well, I think Joan Crawford was LUCKY she was dead when this book came out. She got off easy.

saradawnc
saradawnc

I was just tell you what people in Joan & Christina's life experienced. Myrna Loy, a fine actress and know for her honesty in hollywood, was just being frank about her feelings about the subject. She had the right to defend her best friend since Tina was too cowardly to allow her mother to speak. Well, after suffering a stroke and having her husband divorce her, i wouldnt want to have children either.

jscottolavino
jscottolavino

@saradawnc @jscottolavino I wouldn't be too quick to play devil's advocate in this matter. An abusive, loveless childhood bears strikingly distinct and unimpeachable scars. Too many get caught up in this tale as the first Hollywood "tell-all" and forget it sparked one of the first widespread discussions of child abuse. For that alone, Mommie Dearest belongs in a pantheon with other great humanitarian works. As for its authenticity, I need no further proof than Christina's unwillingness to have children of her own--brought on by a paralyzing fear of passing abuses to another generation.  There are other signs, too numerous to get into here. Without judgment or chastisement I say to you, "You are pointing your finger at a victim." As is her own godmother... which should also tell you something.

Ammie
Ammie

@saradawnc She only wants whats best for Christina? I don't think so, if that were true she would have helped her in life and left her in the will. Joan was continuing to abuse them from the grave. Her legacy is destroyed, as it should be. She will always be associated with Mommy Dearest, the absurdly abusive whack job mom. She was a selfish Narcissist.

LAsux
LAsux

@saradawnc Since Myrna Loy was not a minore purchased child living under Joan's roof, she can defend Joan all she wants but she cannot realistically dispute Christina's experiences.  For every celebrity who defended Joan on this issue, there are just as many who witnessesd it.

saradawnc
saradawnc

@LAsux @saradawnc There are more who defended Joan than those who didn't. Most who "witnessed it" actually didn't see anything at all, but had their words twisted over time. For example, June Allyson only heard Joan yell at her children, she never saw any physical abuse which most people like to claim she did. She's also the one who recommend Joan strap Christopher in bed for his sleepwalking. So if you think the one's who defended Joan aren't relevant than the one's who claim to witness abuse aren't relevant either.

saradawnc
saradawnc

@LAsux @saradawnc the ones who apparently witnessed it, however, have been misquoted. For example, June Allyson has been quoted as saying she only heard Joan yelling at her kids, but some people always make it out to seems she say physical abuse. Allyson was also the one who recommended Joan use a harness on Christopher to tie him in bed for his sleepwalking. Therefore, in my opinion, the ones who "witnessed it" are the one you shouldn't trust. Mostly because it's all people that had it out for Joan.

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