Why isnt Terroir on therE?

I'll have to differ with you about Total Wine Bar. Had a few nice glasses of wine there, but each time the staff's attitude -- a strange combination of undeserved self-importance and slacker unconcern -- made the place a little hard to take.

No Terroir? I'm shocked it didn't even make the runners up list. Also Lela Bar and Blue Ribbon Downing Street Bar may deserve consideration.

I've been to Vesta for brunch, but I would imagine the evening atmosphere is wonderful. What about Fig and Olive?

Robert Sietsema

I dig what you're saying, B. Parks. The place is on the list because of the unusually low priced wines by the glass, their exploration of little-known wines that could be served at the lower end (they were way in front of the lambrusco explosion, for example), and the utter unpretentiousness of the decor. Unfortunately, as you point out, the place can seem like a private clubhouse since most of the patrons are regulars.

Robert Sietsema

Thanks for your suggestios, Always Eating, I'm starting a list of reader suggestions at the end of the piece. And thanks for yours, too, kim.

What about 'ino. A west village staple!

That's one of my all-time faves, and I've been digging it since it opened, Kristen. But it's really impossible to get in there, and since I included its much larger offspring, 'inoteca, in a prominent spot, I decided to forego it. See you there!

Ummm.... How about sorella on the LES. Super cool interior, dope wine list, and definitely the best food of any of them.

Robert Sietsema

I'm adding it to the list, g, thanks

The Bourgious Pig?

How in the world could you not include Terrior?

Robert Sietsema

Thanks, Miguel, I'm adding that to the reader's recommendations, but I'm spelling it right!

Bar Boulud deserves to be there as well.

Robert Sietsema

I considered that place, Mike, because I like it, but finally came to the conclusion that it was really a restaurant, and not principally a wine bar.

City Winery should be high on this list. In addition to a large and interesting wine list, with many wines by the glass and express pairings of wine with food, it offers a unique opportunity to delve deeper into the winemaking process. It's also got a cool feel, of an actual winery in the City. They have started pouring wines made on the site, which are also quite good (and inexpensive to boot). Definitely worth checking out.

Robert Sietsema

I'm planning on checking it out, but it seems more like a performance space, I'm more interested in the winemaking aspect, which also distinguishes it from a wine bar.

I will chime in with "Why no Terroir?" - it's a downright terrific wine bar.

Robert Sietsema

I'm slightly suspicious, saltycathy, that this is an orchestrated campaign, but I'm intending to go there in the next few days and find out for sure! So it better be good, and if it's as good as you say, I'll revise my list.

No Grape & Grain? What is wrong with these people?

Robert Sietsema

I'm adding it to the reader recommendations list, Michael. What, exactly, is so great about it?

Robert -- I like Grape & Grain because it is unpretentious -- and the people who work there are very helpful and friendly. It's just a very nice atmosphere.

Robert Sietsema

Cool, Michael, I promise to check it out. There are so many wine bars in that latitude, and many of them are awful.

Looks like the powers that be have shut down comments on the Terroir review. (Too much negative feedback? Would you like the comments section to be an unsullied lovefest?). Anyway, I would like to continue the discussion here.

I am a regular at Terroir (not an employee). I am not rich, but, like the previous commenter who drives a scooter and drinks Krug, good wine is a priority for me.

With the wine world expanding at the rate that it is, there are seemingly limitless amounts of charming, tasty, regionally typical wines that are inexpensive and widely available. Great wine, however - transcendent wine, wine that merits being the centerpiece of an evening - is expensive. No way around it. Terroir offers its customers the opportunity to drink some of these wines in a setting that doesn't require them to don a jacket or spend an additional $150 on a tasting menu.

I am terribly disappointed with the casual way that some people throw around the term "elitist" when it comes to wine. Does an esoteric and compelling list curated by a knowledgable and passionate staff make a wine bar elitist? I don't think so. Would you call Restaurant Daniel elitist for not having a $5 bologna sandwich on the menu?

Terroir is not for everyone. My mother doesn't care what she's drinking as long as it's inoffensive, inexpensive and red. I would not send her to Terroir because, truthfully, she would probably be intimidated by the list and turned off by the prices. For a person like me, however, who is a passionate (and fairly well educated) wine drinker, Terroir offers a fantastic refuge from the stodgy, ordinary and, yes, overpriced wine bars that populate this city. The author laments the lack of "reasonably" priced wines at Terroir, but perhaps he is not sufficiently familiar with wine to make such a judgement.

It is possible for a place to offer good value without being cheap. At my last visit to Terroir, a wine geek friend and I drank a bottle of 1989 Dorsheimer Goldloch Spatlese from Schlossgut Diel, one of the landmark estates of Germany's Nahe region. The bottle cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $120-$130. Most people would find that to be an unreasonable price for a couple of drinks. But think of it this way: For the hour or so we spent with that bottle, we were in the thrall of a living piece or agricultural and artisanal history, a wine whose grapes were being picked as my mother was preparing me for my first day of Kindergarten. I'd take that over a $7 glass of factory plonk any day of the week.

And the risotto balls are awesome.

Robert Sietsema

No, Andrew, we sometimes stop a comment flow when it becomes tedious and redundant. I think you and your chums have had their say, and, truth be told, you sound like a broken record. I'll allow maybe 10 more comments on this posting, and then shut it off. My complaints about Terroir are entirely justified.

Robert Sietsema

Furthermore, there's a condescending edge to what you're saying. If Terroir sets out to be different than the other wine bars in town, perhaps a warning on the door would be in order. It might read: "The wines here are much more expensive than at other wine bars in the vicinity. Even if you consider yourself a knowledgeable wine drinker, you should not enter unless you're familiar with all the wines we serve, and can discourse learnedly upon them. For this purpose, we are providing a multiple choice test as a condition of entry. And if you can't define 'auslese' immediately and without stammering, you certainly won't be permitted to enter."

I apologize if my defense of Terroir set you off. I attempted to respond to your review in a measured, thoughtful manner. Perhaps I got a little carried away.

Your last response is a touch unreasonable, though, and willfully distorts the spirit of my comment. I was not suggesting that people who are not wine professionals or high-level connoisseurs shouldn't go to Terroir. In fact I think it's a good place to broaden one's wine horizons (I have certainly learned a lot from my experiences there).

What I was trying to suggest was that while there are many places to drink and eat well in New York City, there are precious few that offer the breadth of wine selection that Terroir offers and none that offer it in such a welcoming and casual environment.

I don't care that you didn't know what auslese meant and I don't think it disqualifies you from reviewing wine bars. I do think, however, you should consider the fact that there are a lot of people in this town who do know what auslese is and don't think that $15 is too high a price to pay for a good glass of it.

You call Riesling an "odd obsession". Perhaps you're right, but I, for one, am glad I live in a town where there are places like Terroir which cater to the bizarre fetishes of freaks like me.

Robert Sietsema

No apology necessary, Andrew. This is the kind of tear-up-the-terrain controversy that makes blogs halfway interesting. I still find the list at Terroir very narrow and weird, but that's a relief, I guess, over the Italo-centric lists at most places. Still, I'm always stumbling on interesting and esoteric bottles that "drink as well" as they say in the wine biz as bottles two to ten times more expensive. I suspect that the business plan at Terroir might have been faulty, though, and that they may be in trouble. There has to be a way for them to draw customers in with cheaper wines, and then lure them into trying the more expensive stuff. I do wish them well, and will keep my eyes open for further Marco Canora efforts.

And I disagree about the deep-fried beet risotto balls with gorgonzola cheese inside!

Robert, I am mostly saddened that the (seemingly) one experience you had at Terroir was able to stand as such a conclusive experience. At the very least the defense of such a place throughout the varied commentary should prove that the place has brought many joy. When was the last time so many people came out in support and defense of a place before you had even offered it a review? That says something. I have had many great experiences at Terroir, and often show the place off to delighted friends (regardless of wine knowledge). I just urge you to visit a few more times (throughout the seasons, as themes change here along with them) with open arms, if not to prove yourself wrong or us right, or to offer a recall of your recent review, at the very least to give yourself the opportunity to enjoy what everyone else seems to be enjoying.

And what hasn't been mentioned, there's no harm in asking questions. And the great thing about a place like Terroir is that the staff is unassuming and kind. They're not going to offer you a wine lecture upon ordering, but they will kindly and gladly answer any questions you have regarding the wines, terminology, price, regions, etc. If someone is to order a glass of something and they're not sure what it is, they can ask. This is the beauty of a conscientious and courteous staff.

A toast to Robert someday soon enjoying Terroir!

PS if you want, I'll be happy to join you at Terroir some time and share some glasses with you, introduce you to the staff and even treat you to your wine. I'd be happy to share the experience with you.

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