Jason Beghe Tells Me to Shut the Hell Up About Anderson Cooper's Scientology Special

• Good for Anderson Cooper! As for the "DM is bad, L Ron is good", BS - The universe is yin and yang. The strong freed themselves of ALL brainwashing and are on the path to self actualization. The weak and stupid will trade Scientology for Martyology, and eagerly absorb the new brainwashing because they could not possibly think for themselves. and so is the history of the world. We strong should just observe the weak and chuckle

• Well Tony. Maybe Jason's right. Possibly you've read or at least heard of the First Amendment, which is probably why CNN wisely choose to avoid discussion of religion. Yeah sure there are some dorks on this board who say Scientology isn't a religion. However there are other dorks who say Christianity isn't true Religion or Islam isn't or Judaism isn't. Well its pretty difficult to say what is or what isn't a Religion which is why the founders wrote this Amendment. While, it's pretty easy to see that these people who feel they have some god like ability to determine what is and what isn't a Religion are just dorks. So Tony my best advice is the advice Jason gave you: "Just shut the hell up" and watch the show.

• I have some advice for the Martyologists, including his bud, Jason Beghe. I know you're all f'd up from Scientology, and will probably never get over aspects of it. Instead of looking for a strategy, look for the truth and look at the experience of others who know more than you do. You can start by listening to those who were closer to LRH than yourself, people like Hana Whitfield. Listen to what she is saying in her recent speech at the Hamburg Symposium, and think about it long and hard. Forget the slogans LRH programmed you with about KSW. To me, it gives great insight on why Miscavige is the way he is. He learned from the master manipulator, Hubbard himself. Here is Hana at the recent symposium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd00GtwXcYQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmF9Tpqqw_U I know it is exciting for the Marty-blog followers -- he has such a nice smile and all -- but after having spent decades reading and thinking about Hubbard manure -- Marty's brain wasn't fertilized properly for interpreting the Protestant Reformation, Jefferson, and the other things he's finally reading in middle age and pretending are giving him great insight into the golden mission of Hubbard and Scientology. Instead, he should be reading about Nazis and Stalin, other systems which impose totalitarian control on their members. Don't dismiss Tony (or Russell Miller, Paulette Cooper, Richard Behar) simply because they haven't spent decades knee-deep in this crap. Instead, appreciate the insight of people who are able to STAND BACK, see a bigger picture, and see the effect Scientology has had on ALL of its members, including the ones who claim enormous gains from it. Russell Miller's in depth research was breathtaking. Yet Marty and his clan dismiss it totally, as "bad data." That is ridiculous. Likewise, Marty's grand theory of DM's REVERSE DIANETICS, is only slightly more plausible than Xenu and DC8s 75 million years ago. LRH's was constantly refining his tech of manipulating people better too. Why shouldn't DM do that?

• thetagal, comparing Church of Scientology ("CoS") to a government is bad analogy, a rather crippling intellectual shortcut. Not every U.S. single citizens agree with their government, and those who disagree don't shy away from expressing it openly *when* they see it. The abuses and crimes of the Church of Scientology have been exposed for decades. Where were Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun all this time? They were willing participant toward silencing individuals who were blowing the whistle on the Church of Scientology. I wish the media would *also* ask them the hard questions, rather than seemingly *just* go along with their agenda of blaming it all on David Miscavige. Unfortunately, I've seen that Marty Rathbun shies away from those asking hard questions, again falling back on his Scientology conditioning that those who criticize Hubbard's writings are "haters." (as seen on his blog.) Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder were not only high-ranking Scientologists, but were willing participants to the abuses shed out in the name of Scientology. They need to be held *fully* accountable as much as David Miscavige for the abuses and crimes of the CoS. But somehow now, they want us to believe that David Miscavige *only* is to be held accountable. I don't fall for this. thethagal: "The route cause is easy, David Miscavige. There was no physical abuse before he came on the scene." Sounds more like an easy "route cause" to me. There were abuses prior to David Miscavige. Hubbard ordered people to be "overboarded." Hubbard ordered children to be locked in the chain lockers of his boat, for days at a time. Hubbard ordered his followers to destroy people who were critical of his writings. Hubbard created the RPF. Hubbard created the "fair game" policies. Hubbard created the "disconnection" policies. Hubbard created the holy concept of "stats," and the policies on how to deal with "upstats" and "downstats." Hubbard created the concept of "Suppressive Person," those who oppose or impede Scientology. Hubbard condoned misrepresentation and deceit in the name of his holy "gross income." thetagal: "Scientology couldn't persist if there wasn't something really right about it." Astrology persists to this day, it still is all bollocks. A lot of it comes down to "fully exploit the superstitious belief of people in prophesy," just like Hubbard said. And anyway, what does it tell of the value of Scientology, if the outcome is such sinister organizations as the Church of Scientology, or the pre-Miscavige era's Guardian Office?

• Tony, I was in the church for two decades and am in communication with two former high-ranking members who personally knew and worked with Scientology leader, David Miscavige. Both have said something that caught my attention....that Miscavige is smarter and more able than any ten men. Unfortunately, he is psychotic and violent, too. But, as you might know, he is going to use any attacks upon Hubbard's teachings to his advantage. Meaning, he'll cry "victim" and "religious intolerance". Then, he will send his pit bulls out to the four corners of earth to demand even more money from the gullible parishioners to "defend him and the churh". In other words, anyone attacking Hubbard's ideas, no matter how strange, is inadvertantly causing even more harm to the very people within the church that are being abused already. I assume that you write about the church in order to bring about some justice. To protect people from abuse. Well.....if Anderson Cooper actually did do what Martin Bashir did by attacking the Xenu crap, it would directly harm church parishioners. Jason Beghe is totally correct. Nothing personal at all Tony but shut the !@@$#$### up! :-)

• Tony, I was in the church for two decades and am in communication with two former high-ranking members who personally knew and worked with Scientology leader, David Miscavige. Both have said something that caught my attention....that Miscavige is smarter and more able than any ten men. Unfortunately, he is psychotic and violent, too. But, as you might know, he is going to use any attacks upon Hubbard's teachings to his advantage. Meaning, he'll cry "victim" and "religious intolerance". Then, he will send his pit bulls out to the four corners of earth to demand even more money from the gullible parishioners to "defend him and the churh". In other words, anyone attacking Hubbard's ideas, no matter how strange, is inadvertantly causing even more harm to the very people within the church that are being abused already. I assume that you write about the church in order to bring about some justice. To protect people from abuse. Well.....if Anderson Cooper actually did do what Martin Bashir did by attacking the Xenu crap, it would directly harm church parishioners. Jason Beghe is totally correct. Nothing personal at all Tony but shut the !@@$#$### up! :-)

• R. Hill mentions: How did they find themselves associated for years or decades with an organization which had no qualm in destroying individuals simply because they were perceived as "enemies" of Hubbard's agenda? Interesting, if you are a US Citizen you can find yourself associating with at government that destroys individuals simply because they were perceived as "enemies." That was what the "pre-emptive strike" is all about. So it is pretty easy to belong to a group and not be in control of a situation or situations. The route cause is easy, David Miscavige. There was no physical abuse before he came on the scene. The one thing you fail to see is that Scientology couldn't persist if there wasn't something really right about it. Scientology and the Church of Scientology are really two different things.

• I understand Behe's concern. But criticizing Cooper's investigation isn't doing him and "Church" of scientology critics any harm.

• Now that, Mark, was well played. Thank you for starting out my weekend with such a great zinger. Tony O.

• Are u sure Jason used the world "hell?" That's so unlike him. I hope he's feeling okay.

• Well, since he didn't tell me to shut up... The Scientology "scriptures" (aka Hubbard's "teachings") are the pillars of the multi-decades systemic abuses brought upon individuals and society by the Church of Scientology. Exposing the abuses is awesome, but keeping doing so while ignoring the root cause is silly in my opinion. When those Exes keep whitewashing Hubbard's legacy by refusing to look at the big picture of Hubbard's teachings they sure miss a great opportunity to understand what happened to them. How did they find themselves associated for years or decades with an organization which had no qualm in destroying individuals simply because they were perceived as "enemies" of Hubbard's agenda? In effect, what Scientology teaches first is how to sell L. Ron Hubbard stuff, while absolutely disregarding the financial, mental or spiritual wellbeing of his "customers." Potential recruits are referred as "raw meat." People coming are "bodies in the shop." Scientology salespersons are trained using "Big League Sales Closing Techniques." The "stats" has to go up in Scientology, or else... well, you might just be tagged as an evil "Supressive Person", which is a "shooting offence", as per Hubbard. If one's "stats" are up however, one can "get away with murder," again as per Hubbard. Of course, when selling Hubbard's nonsensical promises at ridiculously high price, or as mandated by Hubbard's teachings, when using misinformation, misrepresention, deception and fraud to sell Hubbard's nonsensical promises, this is bound to attact criticism, thus a significant portion of Hubbard writings teaches his followers how to deal with individuals who get in the way of sales of his stuff. "Disconnection", "fair game", "dead agent", "merchants of chaos", "potential trouble source", etc., all means to ensure that his customers didn't question him, but rather question those who exposed him for the fraud he was. "Confidential upper levels" was also a necessity to Hubbard's scheme, to keep the customers spending for more and more levels. L. Ron Hubbard wrote, "We will fully exploit the superstitious belief of people in prophesy," and since Hubbard wrote it, it is indeed Scientology scriptures. The other day I was watching Marty Rathbun in one of his video interviews on the St. Petersburg Times' website. At one point, he mentions how he was "conditioned" to go along with David Miscavige's "management" style. Made me wonder, if he agrees that there is such a thing as "conditioning," how come he seems to fail to see how very conditioning are the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard? Scientology was no less insidious and no less dangerous to individuals and society before David Miscavige took over. For those who have observed Scientology for a long period, David Miscavige is a natural outcome of Scientology, as designed by Hubbard. For those exes who still abide stubbornly to Hubbard's overall teachings, the only reproach that can be made against David Miscavige, is that his "stats" are down. As per Hubbard's teachings, he now "can't sneeze without a chop."

• It wouldn't hurt, either, to explore the wierdness behind how Scientology, Inc. got its tax exemption from the IRS in the first place. Scientology is the only organization that really brings people of all walks of life together...in protest. Republicans, Democrats, Independents can all agree. Seriously, where else do you see David Caton *and* gay rights activists on the same side? There's just *so much more* than the temper tantrums to illustrate how damaging this organization truly is to people and communities - and I could care less about the wacky origin story. It's not about "religious bigotry" it's about abuses of people and the law that are written organizational policies.

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