Atheists Angry With 'Seven in Heaven' Sign Honoring 9/11 Firefighters

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There's a new street sign hanging on Richards Street in Red Hook that honors seven firefighters from Engine 202 and Ladder 101 who were killed in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The sign says "Seven in Heaven Way," which is causing some controversy, reports the Brooklyn Paper. After all, some people don't believe in God, or heaven, and, of course, there's that whole "separation of Church and state" thing. On the other side are the people saying that the firefighters are heroes and deserving of a "place like heaven," and isn't this just a nice thing to do, for the love of God?

And then there's the point that Ken Bronstein of NYC Atheists makes:

"The problem with the sign is that you're assuming that you know what they felt deep down," said Bronstein, pointing out another potential flaw with the street sign. "You're assuming they even believed in heaven."

Still, practically speaking, all of the firemen's names (Joseph Gullickson, Brian Cannizzaro, Salvatore Calabro, Thomas Kennedy, Patrick Byrne, Joseph Maffeo, and Terence McShane) would hardly fit on a sign. And there seems to be a historical precedent for the name. As Gothamist reports,

"The seven heroes have long been known as the 'Seven in Heaven,' " [City Councilmember Sara González's spokesman Mike] Schweinsburg tells us. "That's something that we didn't have any hand in, it is the way the community and their families chose to remember them. So if that is their desire then we are happy to continue to remember them in the way that their family and fellow firefighters prefer to call them."

The Brooklyn Paper points out that other street dedications honor groups of fallen firefighters without getting religious -- "Red Hook Happy Hookers Hook and Ladder," for example. One commenter retorts, "I guess making a reference to hookers is preferable to mentioning heaven."

And the end of the day, dear atheists, this may be sort of a no-win.

God's country? Red Hook street gets heavenly name [Brooklyn Paper]

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34 comments
ZUBEEY
ZUBEEY

THIS BRONSTEIN  IS THE TYPICAL SELF HATING JEW WHO LIKE FINKELSTEIN  AND OTHERS  GIVE FODDER TO ANTISEMITISM...IF THE SUIT IS BROUGHT I WILL PERSONALLY MOVE TO INTERVENE AS AN INTERESTED PARTY...THE TERM HEAVEN IS SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION...I.E.  HEAVEN, I"M IN HEAVEN AND MY HEART BEATS SO THAT I CAN HARDLY SPEAK, AND I FIND THE HAPPINESS I SEEK, WHEN WE"RE OUT TOGETHER DANCING CHEEK TO CHEEK.   OR THE SONG "MY BLUE HEAVEN" .  THAT IDIOT BOOMBERG ACTUALLY INVITED THESE CREEPS TO AN INTERFAITH DINNER...  ZUBEEY.

Jonmerk54
Jonmerk54

Anti-Christ Jews complaining under the guise of Atheism.  

Abigail Black
Abigail Black

Dear Self-centered Whining Atheists, not everything is about you. For the families of those firefighters who lost their lives on September 11th, this is a small way to memorialize the sacrifice they made on that terrible day. You are still alive, so quit whining. To those complaining, you are a bunch of insensitive jerks. 

Thefordkid1
Thefordkid1

wouldn't it have been better if more people died and went to heaven? Those terrorists did the people a favor sending all those people to a better place huh?

Carol
Carol

I would be willing to bet that Ken Bronstein and his fellow atheists will all ask God to forgive them when they are on their death beds.  All their talk is simply defiance against God and the Bible.  They need to find an island in the middle of the Pacific and be in minority "heaven".

yuno
yuno

That's stupid, all you're saying here is "Atheists don't exist! Everyone instantly turn christian when they're dying out of fear!" We aren't afraid of hell because we realize it's stupid.

I bleed silver and blue
I bleed silver and blue

So just because you say heaven doesn't exist, does not make it so, and if that sign is removed I will be offended, so why should you get your way?

Yuno
Yuno

So if you can't shove your religion down others throats, you get offended. You can deal with not using public land to advertise your religion. Have you ever noticed how much christians sling out insults and stupid comments with church signs, public land and money, the internet, television, media, ect.? However if one person speaks up and says he doesn't like public land on a road he pays to keep up advertising relgion you get offended. Seriously, look at things in perspective. What if the sign said, "Seven not in heaven." It would be torn down immediately.

Securitall
Securitall

Athiests seem to have more trouble with the religious than the religious have with other religions. They are trying to convince themselves that there is no God because if they are wrong, eternity is going to be a living hell. "Eat, drink, and be merry...for tomorrow we die." Athiests, enjoy your 15 minutes. As for us "Religious Type", we'll transition into Eternity with the loving God who created us because he wants to be with us. Will we even remember you?

Yunolikethiscomment
Yunolikethiscomment

So you just said, "Atheists are trying to justify the fact that they don't believe in god by not believing in god. You will be tortured mercilessly but I won't care because I'll be happy." Good job, I'm converted.

Epac
Epac

Your above statement would be true, if Atheists had actually started a war. Having said that, I agree that any "objection" to this sign is silly (at best). I'm an atheist and still celebrate X-mas and other holidays, if only because getting / giving presents and eating food is always nice. Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny don't offend me and neither does this sign. That's because I know they're all meaningless!

Joseph Antoniello
Joseph Antoniello

How exactly is this violating the separation of church and state? The state is not compelling belief onto any of the people who see the sign.  The state is not establishing a mandatory religion on anyone.

Sorry, I don't see the connection.  Would these atheists be happier if it said "Seven Dead Firefighters Way"?  Everyone commemorates the dead in some way, so why not have part of one street commemorate these seven?  Jeez...

yuno
yuno

Because it is using a public foundation to advertise religion, and no, it would say "Seven Heroes Way" or something like that.

F. Bacon
F. Bacon

Too little, too late.  Am atheist here, but realize there is less here in regard to intent than tradition.  No need to take the San out of San Francisco.  The objection would have worked better when friends and family began to refer to the fallen by that appellation.

Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet
Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet

Actually, it depends upon the belief systems of the seven fire fighters. The street is supposed to honor THEM.

Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet

I bleed silver and blue
I bleed silver and blue

No one from the families are complaining, just these pagans

yuno
yuno

Christians are rooted into pagan religions, not atheists.

Bonjonzee
Bonjonzee

why do atheists even have a forum???

Yuno
Yuno

Because we have an opinion

Llewellyn Mason
Llewellyn Mason

 "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." I have long suspected that loud athiests are closet believers who really hate organized religion. They should shut up, or become music critics.

Yuno
Yuno

You just said that atheists don't exist unless they sit down and shut up.

MynameisEvan3
MynameisEvan3

I find it completely ridiculous that any decent person would have any objection to this.

Yunogetsmarter?
Yunogetsmarter?

Than you are extremely biased, assuming everyone just loves christianity, and people should just think everyone of those seven were christian, and believed in heaven.

one nation indivisible
one nation indivisible

My guess that if seen as an isolated incident, no one would bother to bring it up.  Rather, I suspect that this is being offered along the lines of 'yet another example' of government crossing the church/state line. 

I bleed silver and blue
I bleed silver and blue

There is no church/state line, where does it say that in the constitution. God is riddled through out our history here, if you don't like than leave, I will help you pack

Yunolearncrap?
Yunolearncrap?

Actually, it's quite the opposite. Most of the colonies were founded because of a want to get away of Englands lack of separation from church and state, not to mention that plenty of the signers of the Declaration of independence were deist, not christian, and some were atheist. Also, in a peace treaty we wrote that we are not a christian nation, and they would be horrified to find god in our pledge and on our money. Also you seem to be forgetting that it does draw the line saying that the government can not favor a religion, yet it does anyways with money and the pledge as previously stated. You seem just to be some hillbilly with the internet. You basically just said "If you ain't christian, you can just get outta here!"

Ajax111
Ajax111

I wonder how you'd react if I told you "If you don't like the President, you can leave.  I'll help you pack."  ;)

Dean Wry
Dean Wry

Yeah... a little silly to whine about that. It's precisely ridiculous stuff like this that keeps me in the atheist closet. Idiots complaining about such trivial things really paints a bad picture of atheists in general, unfortunately. I'm already trying to get a hold of the idea of coming out in a religious family in the heart of the bible-belt; having then to fight tooth and nail to drive home the point that idiots like these don't represent all atheists seems a bit much to tack on.

Yunolikethiscomment?
Yunolikethiscomment?

I would hardly consider this a petty matter knowing that 9/11 was a huge event as you should know, but they go putting seven people that died trying to save lives in a big melting pot and said they went to heaven, despite the millions that don't believe in heaven, and even without knowing the firefighters beliefs.

☮♥☺
☮♥☺

I understand your hesitation. I'm glad I came out at 13, before I was cautious enough not to... but it was a rough ca. 7 years after that. Then, suddenly, everything seemed to smooth over with my family. Now that I'm an adult (albeit a young one) I'm confident enough in myself not to be put down by the comments of extended family, and my parents don't bother arguing with me, because they lose. :)

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