Scientology Fireworks! Commenters of the Week, Independence Day Edition

ApolloHubbard.jpg
What does the Apollo have to do with fireworks or the 4th of July? Beats us, too.
Scientology watchers had another fine week here at the Voice, and our commenters were yet again out in force.

On Monday, we congratulated Scientology for taking home two coveted Bronze Telly awards, honoring fine work in two DVDs, including filming a live black panther. Rowr! On Tuesday, freelancer Antoine Oman gushed about L. Ron Hubbard's genius method of silent birth. Also that day, we noted that our old friend Grant Cardone had taken to the Huffington Post to send us a mash note.

On Thursday, we passed on the news that little Ingleside on the Bay, Texas, had rallied to Marty Rathbun's cause with an ordinance meant to squelch Scientology surveillance of his home. And finally, on Friday, we somehow managed to equate American Independence with Scientology's flirtation with the Nation of Islam.

So which of our many commenters deserved recognition? Let's get to the awards.

We have to say, Scientology's supporters really stepped up their game this week after we chided them for not putting in much of an effort the week before. There were plenty of great examples of pro-LRH expression, but we were partial to "Mark Miglio," who responded this way when challenged that Christianity and Scientology were incompatible:

Christians have various degrees of belief in their own materials. They are not all the same. I would tell them they don't have to join Scientology -- just use the part you feel good about.

Scientologists are not asking Christians to "put other gods before them". Didn't you see the part where LRH said we are not going to get into that ruling-God issue, in this time and place. We all know LRH is not our God; and you don't have to have God to have a religion -- but we have a unique spiritual technology that makes us extraordinary.

Well put, Mark. And keep it up!

As for the antis, there was so much impressive enturbulation this week, we could choose a dozen examples. But we're awarding this bon mot by "PamEllis," who reacted to the news that Scientologists advocate silent birth to keep babies from being scarred by what's said around them as they come into the world:

I was a c-section. I don't even want to think of what horrible body thetans and entheta I got stuck with because of this!

Still makes us chuckle. Thanks, Pam.

With the holiday, naturally our posting may lighten up over the next few days. But fear not. We have another interesting and enlightening post coming from Antoine Oman, and so many other remarkable stories in the hopper.

Happy 4th, everyone!


tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO

Click here to see all recent Scientology coverage at the Voice

Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications. Among his other stories about L. Ron Hubbard's organization:

The Larry Wollersheim Saga -- Scientology Finally Pays For Its Fraud
The Tory Bezazian (Christman) Story -- How the Internet Saved A Scientologist From Herself
The Jason Beghe Defection -- A Scientology Celebrity Goes Rogue
The Robert Cipriano Case -- A Hellacious Example of Fair Game
The Paul Haggis Ultimatum -- The 'Crash' Director Tells Scientology to Shove It
The Marc Headley Escape -- 'Tom Cruise Told Me to Talk to a Bottle'
The Aaron Saxton Accusation -- Australia turns up the heat on Scientology
The Jefferson Hawkins Stipulation -- Scientology's former PR genius comes clean
The Daniel Montalvo Double-Cross -- Scientology lures a young defector into a trap
A Church Myth Debunked -- Scientology and Proposition 8
Daniel Montalvo Strikes Back -- Scientology Hit with Stunning Child-Labor Lawsuits
When Scientologists Attack -- The Marty Rathbun Intimidation
A Scientologist Excommunicated -- The Michael Fairman SP Declaration
The Richard Leiby Operation -- Investigating a reporter's divorce to shut him up
The Hugh Urban Investigation -- An academic takes a harsh look at Scientology's past
Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh -- A precedent for a Scientology-Branch Davidian link
Janet Reitman's Inside Scientology -- A masterful telling of Scientology's history
The Western Spy Network Revealed? -- Marty Rathbun ups the ante on David Miscavige
Scientology's Enemies List -- Are You On It?
Inside Inside Scientology -- An interview with author Janet Reitman
Scientology and the Nation of Islam -- Holy Doctrinal Mashup, Batman!


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12 comments
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Mark Miglio
Mark Miglio

Come on Guest----please little us have some fireworks!

Scientia
Scientia

Mark, what would you suggest I do when I see no improvement following a KR written up on David Miscavige, COB RTC?

Mark Miglio
Mark Miglio

Scientia---- Thank you for your reply.

If I was not satisfied with the answer I got from David, I would pull all of the applicable LRH data available and quote all the relevant citations and send this new package to him.

If I was still not satisfied with his newest response I would conjure up a new argument/discussion along with additional, appropriate LRH policy memorandums and send that to him.

There is one thing to keep in mind though (in my opinion) and that is that sometimes execs can't handle things as promptly as one would wish or expect.  There are a variety of reasons for this.  So,what one must do (if one is a real Scientologist) is to keep persisting --- in a gentle way --- until the matter is handled.

Or --- it is sometimes true --- that some things are better dropped or forgotten.  Why?  Because one should ask oneself, if in the overall view, is it true that the individual is doing the best that he can with the present time resources that he has available.  Or, to put it another way: Is he doing the greatest good -- in this time and place.

Please, also, consider that there may be factors that you have no way to know about, and that which the individual cannot really speak about -- at least not now.

Mark Miglio
Mark Miglio

Guest--- Scientology philosophy and our technology give world religions tools to help them fulfill their mission.

As our culture evolves the significance of UFO concerns will become more apparent.  We are not alone, the universe is filled with people -- let's all stop beings so stupid.

William
William

 Mark Miglio: "Our technology give[s] world religions tools to help them fulfill their mission."

No, it doesn't.

Mark Miglio
Mark Miglio

Willliam---- Thank you for your reply.  Please be assured that I will do my part and work more diligently in order to ensure that Scientology will indeed meet my own personal mission to help world religions have the very best new spiritual technology to help them achieve their goals.

William
William

Nice sounding words.  Scientology STILL does not provide any "tools to help them fulfill their mission."  It never has and it never will, no matter how "diligently" you work at it nor how many nice sounding words you throw around.

If you object to my saying that, all you have to do is provide verifiable proof that ANY of Hubbard's "solutions" actually do what they promise.  (Hint: They don't)

Mark Miglio
Mark Miglio

Scientia---- I understand anyone's tendency to deny (and be blind to) unfairness at times when one is doing well in his or her own personal life. But that is the most significant reason that our world is in such an apparently massive mess.

We will never have a worthwhile world to live in unless we take full responsibility for ALL of the dynamics (our self and others).  Please recognize that you absolutely should have written knowledge reports and taken action to make sure that appropriate actions were taken to set things right.

Thank you for your honesty.

Scientia
Scientia

Mark, you seem like a lovely fella. I respect your opinion, and I appreciate your sincerity and willingness to communicate. Your calm, patient attitude reminds me of what LRH talked about in What Is Greatness. :o)

However... ;o)

To assume that I or others have not written reports or attempted to take action is incorrect.

"Obtaining information is necessary for any analysis of data." -- LRH, HCO PL 15 May 1970, Data Series 5, INFORMATION COLLECTION.

Numerous efforts have been made by public and staff alike, at the highest of levels, yet sadly have been met with resistance and even suppression. These are ethical, productive, contributing Scientologists who, maintaining their Personal Integrity and Code of Honour, cannot in good conscience continue to support or remain in a group whose management is unwilling or unable to follow basic policy and apply Scientology. Google Mary Jo Leavitt, for starters, OTVIII, OT Ambassador LATAM. Or Luis Garcia, OTVIII, IAS Patron, Super Power Founding Member. Their KRs, and those of many others, are available to read online.

LRH left specific instructions regarding the governance of Scientology to ensure the CoS, through a common sense system of cross checks and balances, would not fall into the control of one person. Visit the savescientology site where the original LRH-signed (and verified) documents can be found in full.

Sadly these instructions were ignored. That means, that in today's CoS, if you uncover any out ethics or wrongdoing by the man in charge, and he doesn't give a sh*t, there's nor much you can do to correct it. Either you shut up about it, and violate your Code of Honour. Or you remove your support and leave the group.

I appreciate you may well be lacking a great deal of data on this, or it's simply unreal to you. But it is VERY REAL for those who have experienced and lived this. To dismiss such people as "squirrels" or as people that "need to be kept an eye on" (aka stalk, harass) for simply choosing to practice their religion standardly, away from what they perceive as an abusive, unethical, suppressive environment, well...I find that incredibly ignorant, Mark. I'm sorry, but I do. It upsets me actually for I know your intentions are noble, but there is a lot of data here you are either unaware of, or you are simply not-ising.

"VALID ANSWERS MAY ONLY BE ATTAINED IN USING VALID DATA. Thus, if the subject of Data Analysis is neglected or imperfect or unknown or unsuspected as a step, then wild answers to situations and howling catastrophes can occur." -- LRH, HCO PL 12 May 1970, Data Series 3, BREAKTHROUGHS

Apply the Data Series, Mark. It is for use.

Mark Miglio
Mark Miglio

Scientia---- there thousands and thousands of Scientologists, like me, who are very with their studies and services. I don't expect anyone to be perfect, rather what I except on them is that they do the greatest good; and if they do that I forgive them for some errors.  I also know that these kind of people reform them selves if you give them a chance.  Let them have a little bit of time -- things are not as easy as many people think.

Scientia
Scientia

Mark, how long do you give someone to reform when, in the meantime, stats continue to decline and crimes continue to be committed? What ethics condition is that? Liability perhaps? Some would say Treason. Either way, it is an ethics situation that needs to be addressed.

Measuring the effectiveness of an individual or group by "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" can only ever be subjective. What you consider to be the greatest good may well be different to the next chap. (Take Hitler, for example).

Hubbard was very specific, Mark.

"NEVER RUN OR MANAGE BY ANYTHING BUT STATS." -- LRH, HCO PL 15 April 1982, Issue II, Finance Series 29, The Counting of Gross Income (OEC Management Series Vol. 2, p. 374).

The subject of the CoS' dwindling stats has already been well documented (see the friendsoflrh site, for example) so I will save further mention of that for another day. Knowing this, however, as well as the fact that there is clearly out ethics within management (take the reported violence at Int, for example. Whomever you believe, the fact that it was allowed to continue for years, unreported, directly under Miscavige, suggests the GROUP (Int Mgmnt) is out ethics per HCO PL 22 July 1982 KNOWLEDGE REPORTS) one then has to raise one's level of confront and dig deeper.

"Indifferent leadership, even inaction can't drive a statistic down. Only active suppression can." -- LRH, HCO PL 10 February 1966R TECH RECOVERY

"If correctly reported outnesses that threaten the org are NOT corrected, then one assumes that suppression exists." -- LRH, HCO PL 7 December 1969, Issue I, ETHICS, THE DESIGN OF.

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