The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology, No. 24: David Touretzky

GuessWhere2.jpg
On Friday, we started a countdown that will give credit -- or blame -- to the people who have contributed most to the sad current state of Scientology. From its greatest expansion in the 1980s, the church is a shell of what it once was and is mired in countless controversies around the world. Some of that was self-inflicted, and some of it has come from outside. Join us now as we continue on our investigation of those people most responsible...


The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology

#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)


DavidTouretzky.jpg
Touretzky
Just as many news organizations over the years have been pretty squeamish about investigating Scientology, so have there been few academics with the desire and fortitude to dive into an area of research that is actually quite rich with interesting material.

Fortunately for those of us with a serious interest in the matter, a few university types have applied their formidable skills, helping to cut down on the misinformation that can get into this stuff.

In particular, Carnegie Mellon's David Touretzky, a computer science professor, has been a beacon of reliability for the last 15 years or so, particularly with his research into Scientology's upper levels, his exposes of Scientology's anti-drug program Narconon, and his dedication to free speech on the Internet. Wrote Wired magazine a decade ago:

Touretzky is also a fierce advocate of the First Amendment and the Internet, and has spent much of the last decade battling to protect the ability of students, programmers and critics to speak freely online. Seven years ago, he fought against former CMU president Robert Mehrabian's decision to censor sex-themed Usenet newsgroups from campus computers, and his website with details about the Church of Scientology's secret scriptures drew legal threats from the church's notoriously censorial attorneys.

And it wasn't only the church's attorneys that tried to go after Touretzky. For a fascinating exchange, listen to this audio segment in which Touretzky holds his own against some Scientologists on a St. Louis radio show in 2005. The radio hosts go along with attempts to "dead agent" Touretzky with toxic Internet statements supposedly made by the professor. But Touretzky knocks them down, saying they were false claims about him made by Scientology's Office of Special Affairs (skip ahead to around the 23-minute mark for the real fireworks). It's only after he's been slimed that Touretzky holds things together enough to get the Scientologists talking about "past lives" in a way that is remarkable. Talk about cool under pressure.

I asked Mark Bunker, who is currently working on a documentary film about Scientology, for his assessment of Touretzky. This is what he said:

There are few people who can articulate the concerns about Scientology as well as Dave Touretzky. It's a complex story buried under layers of corporate lies, but in his many radio and TV appearances he's rationally explained the irrational. His websites on Narconon and Applied Scholastics are a terrific resource.

Touretzky's "OT III" page: For 14 years, a great place to send people who are curious about the church's oddest secrets...

TouretzkyOTIIIPage.jpg

An interesting fact about Touretzky is that his area of principal research really isn't Scientology. He studies rat brains and computer systems. Investigating Hubbard's upper levels is really just a sideline for a guy who believes passionately in an open society and free speech.

On the other hand, Stephen Kent, a professor at the University of Alberta, in Edmonton, makes studying Scientology and other "new religions" his main area of investigation.

StephenKent.jpg
Stephen Kent
In particular, Kent is known for his expert analysis of Scientology's "Rehabilitation Project Force," a kind of internal prison system for Sea Org members that today is notorious, but when Kent began work on it was not so fully known. In 1997, Kent made multiple trips to Germany to describe the RPF to a government that takes more seriously the abuses of Scientology than our own.

As a result, in 1998, Scientology "launched a countrywide personal attack" against Kent (emphasis mine), according to the Edmonton Journal. That attack took the form of...

a scathing article in a 16-page Church of Scientology supplement entitled Freedom that was distributed with the Globe and Mail newspaper Friday. In the two-page article, Kent is compared to well-known neo-Nazi hatemongerer Ernst Zundel and is referred to "as the academic point man for the voices of hate against new religions."

Kent has not only had to fend off attacks by the church. He's also been attacked by other academics -- the kind of apologist religious studies professors who for decades have overlooked Scientology's abuses. Eight years ago, Kent sounded a warning about how Scientology itself relies on friendly professors who legitimize its practices:

After the disastrous apologetics that some academics produced during the early stages of the Aum Shinri Kyo investigation (Reader 2000), scholars should be especially sensitive about providing studies whose blind spots allow malfeasance to go unnoticed. Controversial groups use scholars for their own ideological ends, and Scientology is no exception. The goals of this ideological organization involve 'clearing the planet' of opposition and critical scrutiny. As long as critics focus on the organization's probable human rights abuses, government officials in various countries throughout the world will continue to raise difficult questions about the living and working conditions of Scientology's most dedicated, Sea Organization members. Let there be no doubt: Scientology acutely realizes the crucial role that academics can and do play in its globalized legitimation efforts.

As long as Kent is still giving expert testimony in court cases and giving speeches at conferences, Scientology is not going to have such an easy time of it.

Touretzky and Kent have each been exposing Scientology's darker side for many years. Now, there's a relative newcomer on the scene who is making waves of his own.

HughUrban.jpg
Hugh Urban
Next month, Ohio State University religious studies professor Hugh Urban will officially release his academic history, The Church of Scientology, A History of a New Religion (Princeton University Press).

In June, we reviewed an advance copy of the book, and were impressed by how Urban brought a measured academic's objectivity to a subject fraught with controversy:

Throughout that journey, what Urban does better than most is continually put Scientology's bumpy beginnings and notorious scandals in a larger context of American history and the development of American culture and ideas about religion.

Scientology's secrecy and paranoia, for example, come right out of the Cold War environment that Hubbard was a product of, Urban explains.

The timing of Urban's book really couldn't be any better. It's an academic book, but it's very well written and makes a great companion to Janet Reitman's popular history of the church, Inside Scientology. If Reitman focuses on the narrative stories of individuals, Urban provides key passages from numerous court cases and Scientology's own internal documents to piece together a thorough portrait of the church that Scientology will find difficult to label as a biased work (but no doubt it will still try).

Scientology will always brand its defectors as apostates, will always say that journalists are out to smear them, but with the calm, dedicated work of academics like Touretzky, Kent, and Urban, a library of unassailable, disinterested data is emerging that will not so easily be dismissed.

Coming up on Thursday, #23 in our countdown -- and this time no hints. Our readers are too damn clever.


The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord



Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology] | [Commenters of the Week]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]

My Voice Nation Help
177 comments
Arrest David Touretzky
Arrest David Touretzky

You realize David Touretzky is an admitted pedophile and misogynistic (woman-hating) creep?

Theepsykkofreakuency
Theepsykkofreakuency

Scientology will never hold up to true academic criticism. The mere fact that Scientology does not require critical thinking is reason enough to raise red flags. Scientologists would rather use logical fallacies like ad hominem, ad populem, etc than confront the topic at hand. The Scilons that posted on this blog use typical fallacious arguments that are the standard of Scientology tech.

Wholigan
Wholigan

   What is twisted? What is silly?    Can you for once give a specific reply to a specific criticism?

Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet
Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet

It's still nothing more than fan fiction. If I wanted to play the same game, I could shove my Andromeda episode down the public's throat and pass it off as religion. It's Roddenberry and it even has a name out of Mythology. www.forums.syfy.com/index.php?...

Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet

dagobarbz
dagobarbz

Dr. Touretzky won the 2006 Critic of the Year award at the SP Convention. It was covered in the bodies of murdered space aliens.

dagobarbz
dagobarbz

OMG! Photographic proof that Hugh Urban eats babies! inb4OSA!

Geo Caliban
Geo Caliban

Outrageousthat Beliefnet, a resource that claims to be a forum for religion, would givecredence and column space to someone who is obsessed with denigrating theScientology religion.  Tony Ortega's "news" is Tony Ortega'shallucination—broadcast the "demise" of a religious movement duringits most impressive era of expansion to date. Ortega and the Village Voice'swarped concept of Scientology notwithstanding, there are millions ofScientologists like me who are thriving, studying the books of L. Ron Hubbard,gaining new understanding and certainty and ability and awareness every day. And if you were really holding to your purported purpose you would besupporting the work of Scientologists not giving voice to an anti-religiousfanatic who has turned his so-called paper into a 21st century hate-machine thelikes of which would have made Goebbels drool.

DuckBenway
DuckBenway

Wow, Tony! Just WOW! 

Thank you for this extraordinary article! 

I'm totally amazed that this is merely #24 in the series! There are 23 more to come!!! Awesome project!!!

I believe that you are doing heroic research and publication!

Bravo!!!

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

I'm hoping that Tony can start including links to the list as a total too, since these blog-posts tend to get lost in the shuffle.

I'm sure it'll be an interesting list, even if '25' will never manage to include all the worthies :)

I'm also hopeful that we can get some context, since 'Scientology Criticism' has gone in 'waves' over 50 years; always building on the accomplishments and sacrifices of previous heroes.  Will Bob Lobsinger, th publisher of the Newkirk Herald, get a mention :)

I'm grateful for the addition of 'Anonymous' to that roster, but, it's easy to forget that the 'modern/internet' opposition started in a tiny backwater of the pre-webby internet called alt.religion.scientology, and the first boom was a direct result of the attempt to shut that forum down by Helena Kobrin, which caught the attention of other people who had never heard of Scientology and didn't give a rat's ass about it.  People like the dozens of members of the 'Church of the Subgenious' who arrived in a clown-car of outrageous dimension to poop on The Scientology Supermen's Parade.

Anon A
Anon A

A great new series, Tony!   Good to see those who have been undressing the scam of Scientology for a while getting the recognition they deserve.  I wonder who the number one person crippling Scientology will be?  Hmmm...

anonymous
anonymous

What amazes me is Narconon continues to attract new customers despite Touretzky's "Narconon Exposed" website, which pops up when Googling for "Narconon".

What is most baffling though is that governments allow the scam to operate and to engage in false advertising, despite the mountain of evidence and complaints.

Anti-Anti-SCN, Mark Miglio
Anti-Anti-SCN, Mark Miglio

Tony -- When you say, "Scientology will always brand its defectors as apostates", what's wrong with that -- are not Scientology defectors apostates by definition? 

We don't have to "brand" them: they are what they are.

We gave them as much help as we could -- considering the situational circumstances.  And instead of than them helping us, help them to the expected positive result they then abandoned us. 

Scientology is a team effort, the staff and the public must work together to handle core difficulties.   We are a church, not some sort of fast food restaurant where one consummates what he pays for.  In my "restaurant" analogy the consumer has to help cook his own food.  This may seem like an awful lot of work, but the result is a much more nutritious and satisfying meal.  

choocho
choocho

 Scientology only seems to have given you the ability to post under 20 different nicknames, Louanne.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Hey, Geo, you guys keep PULLING IT IN!  Why?  Because your cult is evil, vicious, militant and anti-American.

Alice Kramden
Alice Kramden

"There are millions of Scientologists like me who are thriving, studying the books of L. Ron Hubbard"

Yes, those orgs are overflowing with staff and public. They can't get in the doors. LOLAnonSparrows video's of the great DC org show complete fail. A true idle org.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

I thought the Beliefnet article and link to here was pretty cool. Shows they are not biased one way or the other!

Leoryan78
Leoryan78

Is anyone noticing how Geo's post is a spam post?This was a post, attacking Tony, but meant for the Beliefnet site, not the Village Voice.  Read it closely.

Geo can't even be bothered to adapt his "cut and paste job".

BTW Geo?  Thanks for letting me know about the other site posting.  :P

LocalSP1
LocalSP1

A lot of words and once again you say nothing. Not once do you address the substance of the criticisms leveled at scientology.

TheGuest
TheGuest

You've had 60 years to become saner, more civilized, more humane members of society. 

You and your socks evidence  in the posts above, along with actions ofyour Squirrel Busters, and your Ken Moxon's and your Jan Eastgate's  et al have demonstrated Utter Fail.

It's time to move on and try an education at an accredited university.  Whether you're interested in humanities, or mental health, or any subject your desire, it's never too late to learn and live a life of hope, compassion and love.  No, not affinity.  Love.  Try it, you'll like it.

 

Hunterdogs
Hunterdogs

Let's see-- The only people that think Scientology is expanding are the people buying the courses. Tony is not hallucinating and I don't consider him to be obsessed. I think of him as an objective, concerned citizen. There are not millions of Scientologists. The only people that say that are Scientologists. Fifty thousand to two hundred and fifty thousand seems more likely. Come on-- let's not compare the Village Voice to the Nazis. Not one Scientologist has even had his windows broken. I imagine that you think of me as a suppressive or a potential trouble source. I think of you as someone who has been taken.

mjm
mjm

David Miscavige, your so-called leader, is Scientology's Goebbels.

TonyOrtega
TonyOrtega

Thanks, DB, just trying to give some credit and have some fun at the same time. I expect violent disagreement with upcoming choices, but that's part of what makes it worth doing. And if enough people keep interested, I could do a poll at the end for people to vote their own order!

TonyOrtega
TonyOrtega

Yes, Joe! Near the end of the list of previous stories (above), you'll see a link for "The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology - the whole series!" Clicking on that will bring up all the articles in the series (only 2 so far, but it will grow). Also, I have created a category, "Top 25 People Crippling Scientology" which appears under the byline. Clicking that does the same thing.

Sanddancer
Sanddancer

The problem is that the church is playing a full court press with narconon, with radio and television ads, pressuring courts to send offenders there, etc. Most of the people who discover narconon don't do it via the internet.

Clam On A Halfshell
Clam On A Halfshell

You "consummate" at a fast food restaurant? Oh my. In the bathroom, I presume? ROFL!!! I think the word you meant was "consume."

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

Anti-Anti-SCN, Mark Miglio said "We don't have to "brand" them"ORLY!?

What is C/S Series 22 'Psychosis' policy/tenet?Lemme help you out Mark

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICESaint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, SussexHCO BULLETIN OF 28 NOVEMBER 1970 Remimeo Class VIIIs Class VIIIChksheet

C/S Series 22

PSYCHOSIS

Through a slight change of procedure on certain preclears I have been able to view the underlying motives and mechanisms of psychosis.Very possibly this is the first time the mechanisms which bring about insanity have been fully viewed. I must say that it requires a bit of confronting.The alleviation of the condition of insanity has also been accomplished now and the footnote in Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health concerning future research into this field can be considered fulfilled.

The things a C/S should know about insanity are as follows:HIGHER PERCENTAbout 15% to 20% of the human race apparently is insane or certainly a much higher percent than was estimated.The truly insane do not necessarily act insane visibly. They are not the psychiatric obvious cases who go rigid for years or scream for days. This is observed only in the last stages or during temporary stress.Under apparent social behavior the continual crimes knowingly committed by the insane are much more vicious than ever has been catalogued in psychiatric texts.The actions of the insane are not “unconscious”. They are completely aware of what they are doing.All insane actions are entirely justified and seem wholly rational to them. As they have no reality on the harmful and irrational nature of their conduct it does not often register on an E-Meter.The product of their post duties is destructive but is excused as ignorance or errors.As cases in normal processing they roller coaster continually.They nearly always have a fixed emotional tone. It does not vary in nearly all insane people. In a very few it is cyclic, high then low.All characteristics classified as those of the “suppressive person” are in fact those of an insane person.

The easiest ways for a C/S to detect the insane are:1. Pretending to do a post or duties, the real consistent result is destructive to the group in terms of breakage, lost items, injured business, etc.2. The case is no case gain or roller coaster and is covered under “PTS symptoms”.3. They are usually chronically physically ill.4. They have a deep but carefully masked hatred of anyone who seeks to help them.5. The result of their “help” is actually injurious.6. They often seek transfers or wish to leave.7. They are involved in warfare with conflicts around them which are invisible to others. One wonders how they can be so involved or get so involved in so much hostility.

[...]

"6. They often seek transfers or wish to leave."

How is that not branding someone?Yeah Mark, we know far more about your religion than you do

MarkStark
MarkStark

The "consummation" is when Sciloontology f'd your mind. Are you Latvian? Please write in your own language and we'll translate using Google. It is bound to be more intelligible.

Sanddancer
Sanddancer

To continue your restaurant analogy, restaurants don't sue you or harass you if you decide to cook a meal you had there at home. In fact, a lot of restaurants work together in such aspects. Friendly competition and all that.

SFF
SFF

Religious apostasy usually involves a renunciation of a particular faith and doesn't really apply to people who leave over issues with the organization.

Additionally, "apostate" is frequently pejorative and is seemingly always used this way by the Church of Scientology. This is generally coupled with the claim that _anything_ said by an "apostate" on the subject is unreliable, backed up by a single academic paper dealing with a particular instance of Catholic apostasy.

Is is used by the Church of Scientology as a form of thought stopping. Good church members would never listen to something said by an "apostate" and the CoS itself can pretend that just calling someone an apostate is a refutation of any problematic facts they might reveal.

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

The fun thing about Scientology's 'apostate' claims is how *conveenient* they are :) [end Churchlady Mode]

According to Scientology theory, you're not qualified to comment on Scientology *unless* you have been a Scientologist.  And, if you have been a Scientologist and *leave*, you're an 'apostate'.  Conclusion?  The only people competent to comment on Scientology are *practicing* Scientologists, but, *they* aren't allowed to discuss Scientology itself, because that would be the High Crime of 'Verbal Tech'.

They are, however, mandated to present an 'acceptable truth' to the public at large; meaning, say anything to take the heat off and create a (false) 'good impression' of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.

As Catch 22s go, 'that's one hell of a catch!'

SFF
SFF

Yeah, the copypasta fail is pretty funny. 

You can also tell that the Scientology posters here haven't read the article since none of the comments complain about Stephen Kent or Hugh Urban. They are just reading the title and consequently inserting random bits from their Tony Ortega and David Touretzky "dead agent" files.

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

Tony is one of those rare journalists, like Leiby or Tobin and Childs or Lobsinger who had the guts to laugh at Scientology's 'Shudder Into Silence' ritual for no other reason than a dedication to journalistic truth.

They all did it when 'ruin him utterly' was the rule for Scientology's Gestapo; a rule mandated by L. Ron Hubbard Himself; with the force of revealed 'Truth' and cadres of fanatics and billion dollar slush funds to back it up.

I don't always agree with Tony, but, I would never question his honesty and integrity.  Sometimes, he's just wrong :)

(in this case, he's not)

I think we can live with that.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Oh...right through the heart!  Another one, Hermann Goering.  But Goebbels is the better fit.  Nice. 

Old OT7
Old OT7

Now this is a fun game, Tony!  So much important information regarding the cult and having a good time posting too!  It just doesn't get any better!  I wish we could all get together for a BBQ at your place!  Keep up the incredible great work you are doing, my friend!

David J Mudkips
David J Mudkips

My guesses?

#2 is Anonymous, #1 is David Miscavige

As acknowledged in the original 'message' video ,Tiny Dave is doing more than anyone to trash Scientology!

CofS Exit Zone
CofS Exit Zone

"I expect violent disagreement with upcoming choices"

(*chuckles/cough/ahem*) it is no wonders us anony trolls <3 u so much ;)

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

Just as a suggestion, Kristi Wachter shouldn't be forgotten :)  She's the author of the 'Truth About Scientology site and, along with Patty Moher/Cerridwen, invested the effort to publish the 'Scientology Completion Lists' that have been an invaluable resource for a decade. 

She also scanned and published all of the back issues of 'The Aberree', the magazine of the original 'independents' from the 50s that were 'hammered out of existence' by Ron Himself.   Entertaining and enlightening reading!

Big thanks to 'ethercat' too, who created the 'Through The Door' website that allowed escaping Scientologists to tell their stories back when it was *dangerous* to do so.

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

Great and thanks Tony!  That should also make it easier to pass the link around.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Are you a Narconon graduate? Usually the only people who work for Narconon are former  'students'. This must have been many years ago, when they recruited from the scientologist pool. I suspect you were down at Arrowhead to train and wound up working for your keep. How long were you there?

Old OT7
Old OT7

Hysterical laughter!   Now that's funny! 

PattyMoher
PattyMoher

I worked at a Narconon as well.  I was the ED of a Narconon for several years and can testify that it was a recruitment tool for Scientology.

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

Well then, you certainly wont be telling us the kinds of things like the internal narCONon documents Touretsky has previously posted. Ya know, counselors/former addicts wanting to score some herion, out-2d actions etc etc etc at various narCONon centresNo wonder scientology DEAD AGENTs Dr T with its BLACK PROPAGANDA.It wouldnt surprise me if we see DR T get a little active in the future with his exposing the CON in  narCONon.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Most of the people who discover Narconon do so though having been scammed by it's fake referral sites and the intake people who answer those site phones.

Google: Narconon  + "Fake referral sites" .  Google:  Narconon + lawsuit

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

As usual, Scientology recruitment (and, yes, Narconon, which Ron called 'The Bridge to the Bridge' is Scientology Recruitment, as well as money grubbing) depends on ambushing the ignorant.  Anyone finding Narconon over the internet would likely find out far too much about Narconon for it to be 'attractive'.

guest
guest

English isn't his first language; Italian is.

Anti-Anti-SCN, Mark Miglio
Anti-Anti-SCN, Mark Miglio

Friendly competition is one thing, and trying to cut the throat of the restaurant owner and the patrons is quite something else.

Anti-Anti-SCN, Mark Miglio
Anti-Anti-SCN, Mark Miglio

The key word, as far as apostate is concerned, is abandonment.  If you have issues with your church, I think you should try to resolve them.  "Thought stopping" has nothing to do with an attempt to resolve issues.

Sanddancer
Sanddancer

Korean BBQ places tend to work that way, and are rather delicous. There are also a few steakhouses that work that way, but they are a bit less common.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Oh, Joe Lynn!  You mean as on old OT7 I can't comment anymore???  Because I know what actually took place?  Ha ha.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Major ditto!  She was viciously attacked by the cult.  In the past I have exchanged emails with her.  She's a very charming & intelligent lady.  I vote with Joe Lynn!

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Posted over at Reachingforthetippingpoint (dot)com

New Document: Narconon IS Scientology, from Lermanet.com Old Narconon Newsletter page I received from Arnie Lerma of Lermanet.com which states

" NARCONON helps get people up RON'S bridge to total FREEDOM. Narconon is freeing people from crime and drug abuse and starting them up RON's bridge to total freedom. WHO CAN YOU START UP THAT BRIDGE?NARCONON IS THE BRIDGE TO THE BRIDGE." So, who lies when they say Narconon is not Scientology? Narconon - that's who!Document posted atscribd (dot) com/doc/61893617/Proof-that-Narconon-is-Scientology-From-Lermanet-comscribd (dot) com/doc/61893617

MarkStark
MarkStark

Thank you Robert. That explains a lot.

Note to Mark Miglio:

Per l'amor di Xenu, scrivere in italiano o hanno OSA si riassegna ad articoli italiane. In inglese si scrive come un cretino.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Oh what drama!  Poor little (and I do mean little) cult!  So abused!

Old OT7
Old OT7

Oh, I like that!  Great post and right on the money!

robert
robert

The more factual and apropos continuation of the analogy is the customers at the restaurant didn't like the food and are trying to flee out the front door.  The waiters and maitre d' chase them down and won't let them out. Finally the customers escape and tell others in the neighborhood about the horrible food and service.  The restaurant attacks the former customers saying they are all liars, "Come in and try the risotto", they claim "It really isn't as gloppy and unsatisfying as these risotto apostates are claiming.  Listen to those people who we haven't let out the door yet".

SFF
SFF

Are you prepared to concede that there could be some validity to some of the criticisms levelled by "apostates"? If not then you are indeed using "apostate" as a thought stopper.

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

One of the key common threads running through the stories of recently escaped long-term Scientologists is the discovery, using such venerated and prescribed tools as the 'Doubt Formula', that it was the 'Church' that was the Suppressive (or 'management, or 'David Miscavige' etc.)

Some of the more naive Good Scientologists made the mistake of 'going through channels' and actually filing their 'Knowledge Reports' about 'things that shouldn't be'.

Do I have to tell you the results?  heh.

It's not pretty.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Mark, let's talk about Xenu and OT3.  No one ever died like Hubbard said they would.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Mark, let's talk about Xenu and OT3.  No one ever died as Hubbard said they would!

Anyone else notice that I'm not getting much response?

Old OT7
Old OT7

Right through the heart!  Keep it up!

Old OT7
Old OT7

Mark, let's talk about Xenu and OT3.  No one has ever died like Hubbard said they would.

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn

and yet, so unrefutable :)

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