The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology, No. 23: Ken Dandar

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Last Friday, we started a countdown that will give credit -- or blame -- to the people who have contributed most to the sad current state of Scientology. From its greatest expansion in the 1980s, the church is a shell of what it once was and is mired in countless controversies around the world. Some of that was self-inflicted, and some of it has come from outside. Join us now as we continue on our investigation of those people most responsible...


The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology

#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)


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Dandar
The first person Lisa McPherson's family thanked after their ordeal was over and they had pried a settlement out of Scientology nine years after Lisa's death was their attorney, Ken Dandar. McPherson's aunt, Dell Liebreich, wrote this about Dandar after the court case was finally over:

He and his brother Tom are very brave and withstood the onslaught of the persistent attacks of Scientology and its agents. No other attorneys would help us. Even after Ken had a quintuple coronary bypass, he was in court facing Scientology, three days following his hospital discharge. His wife, Lauren, and his daughter, Christina, also withstood the great pressure in facing Scientology, things I dare not mention here. Over these many years, I am amazed at how many people, including lawyers, told me and my sisters how lucky we were to have someone like Ken and his brother fighting for us, undaunted by the methods used by Scientology. Not even the Minton efforts of Scientology could stand against Ken. We thank Luke Lirot, Ken's attorney, for doing a great job in representing Ken and us in court.

(For those unsure what we're talking about, please pick up a copy of Janet Reitman's excellent book, Inside Scientology. Her four chapters about the life and death of Lisa McPherson, and the ensuing court battles over it, form the heart of her gripping history of the church. For the uninitiated, the quickest of recaps: McPherson was a Scientologist who suffered an apparent mental breakdown in Clearwater, Florida in November, 1995. After being treated at a hospital, her fellow Scientologists convinced doctors that she didn't want a psychiatric evaluation -- which was against her religion -- and took her to Scientology's Fort Harrison Hotel to recover. 17 days later, she was dead, and her corpse was in horrific condition. Years of litigation ensued, with the church battling claims that it had followed Scientology policies of isolating and not communicating with the mentally unstable woman while she died of dehydration. Here's one place to learn more.)

I asked Scott Pilutik, a younger lawyer who is quickly becoming an authority in the field, to give me his assessment of Dandar:

Ken Dandar in many ways represents the greatest threat to the Church of Scientology's continued existence, and consequently they've shown an unceasing willingness to undermine him at every turn. Most people thought it was Bob Minton who threatened Scientology the most, but Scientology only destroyed Minton in order to get at Dandar. That he's still standing after all they've thrown at him is ample evidence of his unflinching tenacity. And Scientology continues to use the Lisa McPherson case as a weapon -- arguing in the Kyle Brennan wrongful death suit (in which Dandar represents the Kyle Brennan estate) that the settlement agreement between the Lisa McPherson estate and Scientology prohibits Dandar from litigating against Scientology forevermore! An argument which Florida state court judge Beach -- a longtime admirer of Scientology's legal creativity -- actually gave credence to, despite ample precedent that it's against public policy to interpret an agreement to restrict an attorney's law practice. But these are the lengths to which Scientology must resort, as being found liable for wrongful death -- whether Lisa McPherson's or Kyle Brennan's -- is something Scientology can't have on its ledger.

Look, litigation is tough, and there are plenty of Denny Crains out there who wear their court victories like notches on their belts. But it takes a special kind of lawyer to spend year after year battling Scientology, which never saw a local court rule that it didn't want to pervert, a judge it didn't want to baffle with bullshit, or a court clerk it didn't want to bury in paper by the ton.

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Credit: Grady Ward
Dan Leipold, 1947-2007
The late Dan Leipold, for example, was the kind of attorney who kept coming on no matter what obstacles church attorneys threw in his way. He and another tenacious attorney, Ford Greene, worked together on something as significant as the Lawrence Wollersheim cases, and also something as strange and unsettling as the Raul Lopez matter.

In the Wollersheim saga, Leipold and Greene were seeking the money that the church had owed the former Scientologist since he'd won his fraud case against the church in 1986. In 2002, when I spoke to them about it, they were still trying to get Wollersheim his money. And they were doing it in an incredibly creative way -- by threatening to lay bare David Miscavige's ultimate control of every Scientology entity, in violation of the church's tax-exempt status with the IRS.

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Ford Greene
The very morning that evidence was finally going to be heard in a Los Angeles courtroom, a Scientology subsidiary that was supposed to be broke suddenly showed up to the courtroom with a check for almost $9 million to finally end the case.

"They caved because we had the goods on these guys in direct contravention to their tax exempt status. Miscavige has been running the church since 1986," Leipold told me.

Leipold and Greene also worked on the oddest of Scientology lawsuits: the case of Raul Lopez, a brain-damaged young man who was being fleeced out of the $1.7 million he'd received in a settlement after the auto accident that injured him. Wrote my colleague Ron Russell at the time:

In the intervening years, Leipold and Greene claim, their client was "systematically looted" of his wealth at the hands of the church and individuals associated with it. Between 1987 and 1996,their complaint says, Raul Lopez spent nearly $600,000 for Scientology products and services thatcan be documented. Much of the money went to pay for months of auditing sessions at Oxnard,which took place up to six times a week, before he was passed up the bridge for more advancedauditing at both the church's Celebrity Centre International in Hollywood and at its sprawling FlagService Organization (commonly referred to within the church as Flag Land Base) in Clearwater,Florida. He says he passed out during auditing on at least three occasions and that each timechurch representatives attributed it to personal inadequacies that they said only pointed up theneed for more intense auditing. In addition, the lawyers contend that their brain-impaired clientforked over hundreds of thousands of dollars to people connected with the church for other purposes. "They isolated him from his family and took control of every aspect of his life," says Leipold."They squeezed him until there was nothing left."

Sadly, Leipold died in 2007 at only 59 years of age. I asked his old partner for a remembrance of him, and this is what Greene sent me:

Dan Leipold was a dogged professional whose sense of injustice Scientology profoundly offended. Creative, effective and taking no prisoners, Dan kicked Scientology's ass on behalf of the Cult Awareness Network, Raul Lopez and Lawrence Wollersheim. He was a fox hole brother whose presence -- and humor -- is always missed.

Greene, meanwhile, has gone on to a surprising new racket: he's the mayor of San Anselmo, California.

There's another attorney, however, who never seems to leave the trenches. One of the most difficult stories I have ever reported was a 1999 story about the "fair game" attack on lawyer Graham Berry.

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Graham Berry
Berry was not only a tireless litigator against the church, he happened to be a gay man who had lived in New York during the 1970s. Hoping to slime Berry, Scientology sent its legendary goon, a disgraced former cop named Eugene Ingram, to look for any leverage it could use against the attorney, and found it in a troubled man named Robert Cipriano. Pressuring Cipriano about his own legal troubles, Ingram and Scientology convinced him to sign a false affidavit that was filled with homophobic slander about Berry.

It took Berry years to fight that attempt to slander him, and that only brought him into Scientology's noose even tighter: I watched as the church bankrupted him, and harassed him with constant depositions that would have broken 100 other men or women.

To this day, however, Berry has not only refused to give up his fight against Scientology, but he's done it on the front lines, speaking at conferences, manning picket lines, and somehow doing it with no means of visible support. You just can't kill the man's spirit.

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Scott Pilutik
And finally, I want to mention Brooklyn Manhattan attorney Scott Pilutik, who has become a favorite with Scientology watchers for the clear but detailed analyses he does of ongoing church litigation at his blog, realitybasedcommunity.net.

For example, he's helped us non-lawyers understand the tricky jurisdictional issues in the lawsuit filed by Laura Decrescenzo. "Laura D's" case is especially troubling, writes Pilutik:

At age 9, Laura began working for the Church of Scientology's Sea Org in the most miserable conditions imaginable in a non-third world country. At age 16 she married a fellow Scientologist staff member and soon became pregnant. Scientology forced her to abort her child-Sea Org workers with children aren't nearly as productive and, accordingly, having them is forbidden. Laura endured many more years of abuse within the Sea Org, spending long stretches of time on the Rehabilitation Project Force (Scientology's brand of prison camp). In 2004, at the age of 25, she had finally had enough. Knowing that the quickest way out was to be seen as visibly suicidal, which would cause Scientology to "offload her," she ingested bleach in view of another Sea Org worker.

If that's frightening, you should see what's happened to her case in the courts. The jurisdictional and timing issues are complex and make my head hurt. But "T1kk," as he calls himself, has helped us all understand better where the case is headed.

The most recent ruling Pilutik called "a potentially devastating blow to the Church of Scientology." Well, we'll see.


UPDATE...

Barry Van Sickle has been involved in many of the most important cases of litigation against the church in recent years, including lawsuits involving Lawrence Wollersheim, Graham Berry, John Lindstein, Laura DeCrescenzo, and the Headleys. Talk about a glutton for punishment! I asked Scott Pilutik to give me some thoughts on Van Sickle's career:

Barry Van Sickle has great instincts for 'what Scientology will do next', having litigating against them for twenty plus years. Although the Headleys' lawsuits were dismissed, a case currently before the Supreme Court, Hosanna-Tabor v. EEOC, may ultimately vindicate not only the Headleys, but Barry too, as the law on who is a "minister" is examined by the highest court for the first time.

Michael Flynn was a pioneer of litigation against Scientology -- he brought some 20 lawsuits against the church in the 1970s and 1980s -- and paid for it with extreme harassment. Scientology's chief goon, private investigator Eugene Ingram, accused Flynn of trying to steal $2 million from L. Ron Hubbard with a forged check -- and broadcast that accusation in full-page advertisements in major newspapers! Flynn, however, not only beat back that attack, but ended up winning a settlement of more than half a million dollars from the church.


The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology] | [Commenters of the Week]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]

My Voice Nation Help
93 comments
memerider
memerider

How does one stop the church from endlessly contacting one via phone, email, and mail?  And they've moved to contacting my relatives I only mentioned once in passing when they were trying to "help" me with auditing.  As useful as I think some of their material is, I've been unable to stop their endless communications, and my family is very upset that they are now targets without ever having had anything to do with this organization (other than being related to me).  In fact, that was the dealbreaker.  Once they went after my family, I realized I must stop all communication with them.  Is there an official way one who has taken their courses can cut all ties with them and actually make it stick?

ricohenry7
ricohenry7

http://eeoccorruption.blogspot...Comment by Ricardo JonesOur president doesn't care about Justice for working class people who look like himself or his wife and daughters. The president appointed his wife's friend(Jacqueline Berrien) to head the corrupt EEOC. Berrien is a black attorney from the NAACP legal defence fund of NYC but she for Bad employers who discriminate against Black people IE:corporations, companies, Bad government agencies like her own(EEOC) and others to include state and local governments. This is the best a black looking president will do for Black people. I tried to fight for all people but Berrien's fired me for not dismissing Black complaints. Many Black attorneys and investigators at the EEOC along with the others are just dismissing all Black complaints. This is what the president wants. They think we all are just playing the RACE card. The judges in federal court feel the same way along with most attorneys in this country.

ricohenry7
ricohenry7

Mayor Bloomberg is allowing the construction companies of DeFoe and Conti to steal millions of city dallors along with the corrupt EEOC. Both DeFoe and Conti have been investigated by the corrupt EEOC for gender discrimination. The president white house staff also has a gender discrimination problem too (Confidence Man) by Suskind. The countries civil rights laws are used to make illegal money by the elite officials. Great Con Game. kou do's to the Mayor of NYC and the President. Can anyone stop them? Where's are free press???

Kushner143
Kushner143

Thanksfor taking the time to discuss this, I feel strongly about it and love learningmore on this topic. If possible, as you gain expertise, would you mind updatingyour blog with more information? It is extremely helpful for me.Regards,business lawyer riverside county 

Larry Brennan
Larry Brennan

I am thrilled to see Barry Van Sickle added to this list. He has fought for many who could not pay him despite personal hardship. He has taken on Miscavige and organized scientology , often with little to no support. And organized scientology has done everything they can think to destroy this man. No matter who may get "credit" for it if and when organized scientology  must pay for its horrid abuses of its own staff, Barry will always be part of what made this come about. Barry has been paying a huge personal price for exposing and fighting these people. I am proud to have Barry as a friend.

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Tony, I think you forgot to include Harold J. McElhinny from Morrison Foerster.  He's number one in my book.  Don't know him?  Think his contribution not worth mention?  Google is your friend.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Tony, thanks for the update on this one to include Barry Van Sickle and Michael Flynn.

They and the other attorneys listed are giants among their peers for taking on Scientology in the legal arena. 

Typsy
Typsy

I'm surprised "younger lawyer" Scott Pilutik would makedisparaging remarks about a well-respected judge when he knows that the judge'srulings have been affirmed by the appellate court.  Pilutik also knows that Dandar willingly agreedin 2004 not to sue the church again.  (Dandar and his attorney have stated so in court on several occasions inthe past.)  It's no secret that Pilutik isa friend of Dandar's.  Relying on him foraccurate and unbiased information about Dandar is futile.   

Vicki
Vicki

All religious organizations and all corporations should be taxed and should be required to pay in the highest bracket + 10% and church assets, especially real estate, should be subject to taxation and this would be a much better society.  When did freedom of worship ever begin to get confused with freedom from taxation?  It was that phenomenon that attracted L. Ron Hubbard to setting up his cult as a religion and it is that phenomenon that has generally corrupted the moral core of purpose of every organized church or religion operating at large in the world today.  People can believe in the tooth fairy so far as I'm concerned so long as they don't force me, even at sufferance, to subsidize it.  By being tax exempt churches force all who do not share their belief to support it by paying the tax load for the free load tax shelters of all religion.  

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

You could write a whole series just on the tireless efforts of  brave attorneys like those you mentioned.

Let's not forget the long standing formidable legal opponient of Scientology,  attorney Barry Van Sickle and his team of appellate warriors, Raphael Metzger and Kathryn Darnell of the Metzger Law Group on the current case:

LAURA ANN DECRESCENZO aka LAURA A. DIECKMAN VS CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL (#BC411018)  Having won on appeal the right to have this case reinstated:Court of Appeal, Second District, California -- June 24, 2011, modified July 22, 2011LAURA ANN DeCRESCENZO v. CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONALLAURA ANN DeCRESCENZO, Plaintiff and Appellant, v. CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL et al., Defendants and Respondents .( #B224409 )

And then there are the hardworking team, DYKEMA GOSSETT LLP, Laura Worsinger, S. Christopher (Kit) Winter, Dawn N Williams, Monica Frascona and Andrea Figler Ventura -  working on the 2 Daniel Montalvo cases:

DANIEL MONTALVO VS CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL, CANYON OAKS RANCH SCHOOL, ET AL ( #BC456610 ) and

DANIEL MONTALVO VS BRIDGE PUBLICATIONS INC  ( # BC456611 )

This is besides those unnamed but important attorneys who have taken on NARCONON on behalf of some of it's many victims. 

Sheriff Buford T. Justice
Sheriff Buford T. Justice

The top person hurting scientology is themselves. They stalk 10,000 kids, sned legal letters to their parents home, meant to terrorize their families with private eyes into not protesting them, break into the FBI, post fake bomb threats, and run and hide propane when cameras show up.watch "angry gay pope twin peaks" on youtube, and see a creepy bunch of fuckers called dangerous by an American judge run and hide, and frantically race to hide their propane. This is NOT normal; this is tank big enough to service and ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTY of farms for month. They have other bomb making materials in their private gold mine as well, that they got caught taking the ore to the mill.

These are some real creeps, that have already very publicly  declared Americans as their enemy; That is an American who protests them. This is total bullshit and they would not stop and just propane bombs on you or me.

This deserves IMMEDIATE law enforcement attention, if you have half a brain and can figure out: Why would a church need to hide a large amout of propane?

Call HOMELAND SECURITY on these pricks. Remember these are the same people who stalked 10,000 fucking kids and scared them.....that is called organized terrorism.

Fredric L. Rice
Fredric L. Rice

Graham Berry for the win, kicking insane organized crime mobsters up their asses! Love it!

DuckBenway
DuckBenway

Those are the words I've been searching for, Miles! Thank you!

"Disingenuous, lying cowards."

I've been seeking a way to further characterize the intellectual dishonesty of $cientologi$t$.  

Intellectually dishonest, disingenuous, deceitful, lying cowards -  now sums up the character of these pathetic creatures for me.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

It must suck working for Scientology's Office of Special Affairs.

Obnosis
Obnosis

CONTINUE FROM MY LAST POST

Ford GreeneIn an article published by the Marin Independent Journal, Ford Greene admits having been involved in deprogramming people including his own sister.The article makes reference to www.friendsofsananselmo.org which is a website that documents Ford Greene’s bizarre activities and run-ins with the law.Ford Greene is an attorney with a psychiatric history stretching back to his youth when he was committed to an institution by his family. The unaccomplished son of a wealthy San Francisco attorney, it was perhaps in an effort to finally win his parent’s favor that Greene took up “deprogramming”– the violent abduction and imprisonment of parishioners in an effort to force them to give up their faith. Greene’s parents had hired deprogrammers to abduct their daughter, Catherine, a member of the Unification Church, and Ford participated in the kidnapping and restraint of his then 20 year-old sister.It was an extremely ugly, life-threatening two days for Catherine Greene who had been looking forward to a visit at home with her mother, only to find herself violently attacked within minutes of having walked through the front door. First she was jumped from behind by two men, then thrown to the floor, hands cuffed behind her back, feet bound together, blindfolded, then carried to a van and made to lie face down while her abductors drove her to a remote location. There, in a boarded-up room, her brother, Ford, and several accomplices held Catherine prisoner, subjecting her to constant verbal abuse and mind manipulation techniques in an attempt to break her religious beliefs. Finally Catherine was left with no choice but to cut herself severely with a broken bottle in order to force her captives to take her to a hospital. It cost her 19 stitches but she was able to contact friends and tell them of her plight. To prevent her escape, Catherine’s abductors arranged to have her transferred to a psychiatric hospital – the same hospital that Ford Greene had been committed to after threatening suicide years before. Eventually Catherine was able to contact an attorney who helped her to freedom.Catherine later brought suit, and in a detailed statement accused her brother and his accomplices of having deprived her of numerous constitutional rights. But none of this seemed to phase Ford Greene. He believed he had found a “calling.”Along with other opportunists like jewel-thief-turned-deprogramme r, Rick Ross, Greene became a member of the old Cult Awareness Network, an anti-religious organization that specialized in promoting the violent abduction and abuse of parishioners. Now a self-anointed “expert” on religion, Ford set out to breed as much fear and hatred as possible in an effort to frighten parents, husbands or wives into paying to have their family member “deprogrammed.” Among his victims was Rick Schnorr.Schnorr, also a member of the Unification Church, was 27 years old and enroute to a business meeting when he was ambushed by Ford Greene and several others and physically restrained with a leather belt, handcuffs and leg bracelets. Schnorr was held captive for several days while Greene and his kidnapping team attempted to break Schnorr and force him to renounce his faith.Greene “interrogated” his prisoner by screaming insults and obscenities at him and threatened to stuff a towel down Schnorr’s throat. Schnorr was forced to sleep with his hands and feet cuffed and chained to the belt around his waist – the type of restraint used by police for violent criminals. The kidnappers made veiled threats about breaking Schnorr’s bones if he did not cooperate. Greene physically intimidated Schnorr while he was bound and defenseless.

Obnosis
Obnosis

#23 KEN DANDAR, GRAHAM BERRY AND FORD GREENEA HISTORY OF FAILURES, ANTI-RELIGIOUS SENTIMENT, GREED ANDPSYCHIATRIC TREATMENTS.

“Dandar is an idiot. That's my response to that. He hasn'tgot a clue. He is the worst of the worst of what makes the American legal system so out of control. He is an ambulance chasing gold digger" - Mike Rinder (outspoken critic of CoS and ex-scientology executive}

Ken Dandar received more than 2 millions dollars from one of his former client (Bob Minton founder of Lisa McPharson Trust) in need of legal help in trying to fight CoS. Result? _Lisa McPharson Trust bankrupted.

_Bob Minton lost tens of millions of dollars and eventually was forced to ally with the Church going against his former attorney K. Dandar.Why? Because Ken Dandar couldn't withdraw from a case he filed against the Church of Scientology because NO OTHER MORE COMPETENT LAWYER wanted to take his badly messed case.One of those said:“this case is evidently build up on prejudices and anti-religious hatred”.“That puts Dandar “in a pickle,” the St. Petersburg Times reports,“because Dandar had agreed to stop suing Scientology in a confidential 2004 settlement, and a state court seeking to enforce the deal has fined him $50,000 plus $1,000 for every day he stays in the case”

-Ken Dandar has never given back the 2 millions dollars to Mr. Minton because according to himthat check was received by “anonymous” means. LOL

--GRAHAM E. BERRY is an unemployed attorney. He stated under oath, in a court of law, that his psychiatric problems, alcohol dependency and treatment prevent him from practicing law.A California State Court has declared Berry to be a vexatious litigant** because he has filed so many frivolous and harassing lawsuits.Berry has been ordered to pay approximately $100,000 in sanctions and attorneys’ fees to Scientologists as a direct result of the frivolous lawsuits he has filed.Berry lost a copyright case for infringement of a work by L. Ron Hubbard. His client, Keith Henson, lost a jury verdict for what is believed to be the largest award in US history for infringement of a single work, and then conveniently filed for bankruptcy to avoid paying this judgment.

**“The Court having read and considered the moving papers of Petitioners Church of Scientology International, Isadore Chait and Glenn Barton, opposing papers of Graham E. Berry and supplemental papers filed by the parties and having heard oral argument thereon, the Court hereby finds Graham E. Berry to be a vexatious litigant within the meaning of C.C.P.§§ 391 (b)(1)(3)(4). Effective immediately, Graham E. Berry is required to comply with the procedures set forth in C.C.P.§391.7.”(signed)Alexander H. Williams III

In Bad Faith“The above-described conduct of plaintiff’s counsel in this case supports a finding of bad faith.”UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIAMINUTE ORDERCase No.: CV-98-3985 CAS (Shx) April 15, 1999Title: MICHAEL P. PATTINSON v. CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY ET AL.

Marken Jack
Marken Jack

Put pressure on the own legal problems Cipriano, Ingram and Scientology convinced to sign a false affidavit, which was full of homophobic slander about Berry. stoke-on-trent solicitors

Le Stat
Le Stat

OSA staffers are slowly dying right now and turning into WOGs. Shhh, everyone, let them join the rest of humanity. Thank you, Tony.

XenuBodyThetan
XenuBodyThetan

When in August or Sept 2004 I got a threatening phone call from Scientology attorney Elliot Abelson, my first action was call Gerry Armstrong for advice.   Elliot in my phone call nervously tried to suggest I NOT call Ford Greene!    So that tells you something about Ford Greene!   I sent letters to a dozen attorneys around the US, and Dan Leipold gave me the best advice, and his advice contributed to  me deciding  to risk continuing talking and I spread all my legal advice to others, on the internet, even after Elliot Abelson's blatant attempt to silence me.   And Graham Berry had dozens of phone calls with me, in my beginning stages of continuing to post recent top ranks history that I knew about, and which I leaked, which kinda helped OTHERS spend some time to speak up also!      Yes, THANKYOU Ford Greene, Scientology absolutely hates you too.   You definitely make Elliot Abelson nervous too!     Here's Elliot Abelson's veiled threat letter and my ridiculous legal doc I signed giving up my free speech writes to ever speak about Scientology, which is worthless:  http://chuckbeatty77.webs.com/...- Chuck Beatty, ex Sea Org (1975-2003), Pittsburgh

GeoMatrix
GeoMatrix

.What an excellent series of articles!  I feel like I'm addicted to VV now... just wondering how I am  going to wait until Saturday for my next "fix"?

Tony, when the entire list is finally revealed, it will be like an encyclopedic history of the cult's demise and how a handful of brave, courageous heroes made a difference. Sounds like good material for a blockbuster movie!

Keep it up!

MarkStark
MarkStark

Where's the cult's OSA comment-handling ninja sock today?

Isn't it weird how in a cult with 10 million members who are "free" to shatter suppression, this one or two person OSA "operation" shows up in a flurry of posts, all at the same time?

mjm
mjm

does Lisa Marie Presley have a spot on the list? I'm hearing that her autobio is going to do some crippling damage to the cult. Besides, it was mama Priscilla (who is a top spy for OSA) who ruined her marriaged to Michael Jackson (by submitting false info for his '93 molestation trial to Anthony Pellicano who then tattled to Tom Sneddon).

Joe_Lynn
Joe_Lynn

If awards were granted on the basis of 'bang for the buck', Scott Goehring shouldn't be forgotten.  Scott created the 'newsgroup' alt.religion.scientology in the early '90s on 'usenet' (look it up :))  long before the age of web pages and 'easy' access through  browser, but, with a single message the group became the primary battleground in Scientology's 'War on the Internet' and one of the most important meeting grounds and sources for information on the 'Church' that so obsessively attempts to kill not only the messengers but the message itself.

Joe_Lynn
Joe_Lynn

All of the above deserve high praise and credit for their efforts.  One of the most difficult issues for Scientology Critics has always been finding attorneys willing to even consider taking on the Billion Dollar UFO Cult; for good reason.

But, my special thanks go to Graham Berry, who saved my own ass when OSA had it in the wringer and never even considered accepting payment.  Thanks a lot Graham; you're a peach :)

Songbyrd76
Songbyrd76

WOW! What amazing coverage....I just recently moved out of NYC & the Village Voice makes me feel right at "home" I encountered your Scientology coverage by accident and I just can't get enough! Great articles, riveting and unbelieveable.  I've spent most of the past two days catching up!  Keep up the great work.....Scientology is a cult mascarading as religion and many people are being made aware of its unethical practices via your coverage! Not only informative but truly entertaining!! Thanks a million for making me feel at home!  Keep reporting the truth!

Anon A
Anon A

This caught my attention:

"[Leipold and Greene were]  threatening to lay bare David Miscavige's ultimate control of every Scientology entity, in violation of the church's tax-exempt status with the IRS...'They caved because we had the goods on these guys in direct contravention to their tax exempt status. Miscavige has been running the church since 1986,' Leipold told me."

So, is this damning information still out there and potentially accessible to build a case to revoke the tax-exempt status of Scientology? 

Kushner143
Kushner143

I'm impressed. You're truly well informed and very intelligent. You wrote something that people could understand and made the subject intriguing for everyone. I'm saving this for future use.

Regards,real estate lawyers Newport Beach

Joe_Lynn
Joe_Lynn

I think there are good reasons for exclusions from taxation for 'religious' organizations. The point is to prevent government from selectively promoting or sanctioning 'belief systems'. And, I agree with it. That said, there are rules that already exist that severly limit what can be considered a 'religious activity'. Bribing judges or public officials, extorting 'compliance', pursuing political influence, harassing enemies, attempting to silence opponents are *not* religious practices that fall under the protection of the first ammendment; yet, are the bread and butter of the 'Church' of Scientology.

Likewise, commercial sale for profit of services or goods are not exempt. So, the rules exist. But, they need to be *enforced*, which they are not. Case in point, the US Supreme Court *specifically* allowed the taxation of the sale of Scientology services and materials in Hernandez V. The Commissioners. The only reason that Scientology gets away with it is a clearly preferential and discriminatory and *secret* decision by the IRS to allow it. See the Sklar case.

We already have enough law to remove Scientology's tax exemption; all it would take is enforcement.

marcotai
marcotai

What T.O doesn't want you see;

The 25 Peope "Crippling" Scientology, The Other True Face Of The Coin.This is a close follow-up of his hate-propaganda project that he is censuring in here.http://www.topix.com/forum/rel...

marcotai
marcotai

While the moderators in here haven't still decided to post my further comments regardingthe "attorneys" placed at #23, here you can find my follow-up with "The 25 People Crippling SCN";

THE 25 PEOPLE "CRIPPLING" sCIENTOLOGY, THE OTHER TRUE FACE OF THE COIN":http://www.topix.com/forum/rel...

choocho
choocho

"' the Court hereby finds Graham E. Berry to be a vexatious litigant"

 Don't worry, OSA, you still have him beat by miles in that department. 

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Operation Clambake presents: Quotes about Scientology Collection of quotes collected by F.A.C.T. Net, web page made and hosted by Operation Clambake Justice Anderson, Supreme Court of Victoria, Australia: "Scientology is evil; its techniques are evil; its practice is a serious threat to the community, medically, morally, and socially; and its adherents are sadly deluded and often mentally ill... (Scientology is) the world's largest organization of unqualified persons engaged in the practice of dangerous techniques which masquerade as mental therapy."  Kenneth Robinson, British Minister of Health: "The government is satisfied that Scientology is socially harmful. It alienates members of families from each other and attributes squalid and disgraceful motives to all who oppose it; its authoritarian principles and practice are a potential menace to the personality and well being of those so deluded as to become followers; above all, its methods can be a serious danger to the health of those who submit to them... There is no power under existing law to prohibit the practice of Scientology; but the government has concluded that it is so objectionable that it would be right to take all steps within its power to curb its growth."  Federal prosecutor's memorandum to the judge urging stiff jail sentences for 9 top leaders of Scientology who had pleaded guilty to criminal charges: "The crime committed by these defendants is of a breath and scope previously unheard of. No building, office, desk, or file was safe from their snooping and prying. No individual or organization was free from their despicable conspiratorial minds. The tools of their trade were miniature transmitters, lock picks, secret codes, forged credentials and any other device they found necessary to carry out their conspiratorial schemes."  Justice Latey, ruling in the High Court of London: "Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious...It is corrupt sinister and dangerous. It is corrupt because it is based on lies and deceit and has its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard... It is sinister because it indulges in infamous practices both to its adherents who do not toe the line unquestionably and to those who criticize it or oppose it. It is dangerous because it is out to capture people and to indoctrinate and brainwash them so they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult, withdrawn from ordinary thought, living, and relationships with others."  Judge Breckenridge, Los Angeles Superior Court: "[The court record is] replete with evidence [that Scientology] is nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum amount of money from its adepts by pseudo scientific theories... and to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to continue with their sect.... The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder, L.Ron Hubbard." Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Paul Breckenridge, June 1984, in the Gerry Armstrong case: "In addition to violating and abusing its own members' civil rights, the organization over the years with its 'fair game' doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in the church whom it perceives as enemies."  California appellate court, 2nd. district, 3rd. division, July 29, 1991, B025920 & B038975, Super. Ct. No. C 420153: "In January 1980, fearing a raid by law enforcement agencies, Hubbard's representatives ordered the shredding of all documents showing that Hubbard controlled Scientology organizations, finances, personnel, or the property at Gilman Hot Springs. In a two week period, approximately one million pages were shredded pursuant to this order." California Supreme Court, United States v. Lee [455 U.S. 252,257,258 (1982)*/: "When a person is subjected to coercive persuasion [as in Scientology] without his knowledge or consent ...[he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self-mutilation, and suicide." USDJ Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion, RTC vs Lerma: "The dispute in this case surrounds Lerma's acquisition and publication on the Internet of texts that the Church of Scientology considers sacred and protects heavily from unauthorized disclosure. Founded by L. Ron Hubbard, the Scientology religion attempts to explain the origin of negative spiritual forces in the world and advances techniques for improving one's own spiritual well-being. Scientologists believe that most human problems can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters" to individuals in the contemporary world, causing spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives of their hosts ".  Lord Denning: "...capable of such danger that the public interest demands that people should know what is going on"  Judge Constandia Angelaki: "It is an organization with medical, social and ethical practices that are dangerous and harmful," "It claims to act freely so as to draw members who subsequently undergo ... brainwashing by dictated ways of thinking that limit reaction capabilities." Supreme Court of Victoria, Australia, Justice Brookings, 1982: " ...the teaching of Scientology and the practice of Scientology will result in the commission of many offenses and may well result in the commission of many others." California 9th Circuit Appeals court in the Zolan case, after secret Scientology tapes were remanded from the U.S. Supreme Court: "The purpose of the MCCS project was to cover up past criminal wrongdoing.... The MCCS project involved the discussion and planning for future frauds against the IRS in violation of 18C USC 371."  Ted Gunderson, former head of the FBI's Los Angeles office, quoted in TIME May 6, 1991:  "In my opinion the church has one of the most effective intelligence operations in the U.S. rivaling even that of the FBI."  IRS Final Adverse Ruling re "Church of Spiritual Technology," July 8, 1988:  "The California case also demonstrates inurement... amid continuous representations denying control by and benefit to Mr. Hubbard, and a tenacious denial of the actual state of the organization's actual affairs in the face of overwhelming evidence establishing the true nature of the organization's operations." ...Such self dealing does not lose its identity as private benefit and inurement merely because it is conducted through intermediary individuals and\or organizations.  California appellate court, 2nd district, 7th division, Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology of California, Civ. No. B023193 Cal. Super. (1986):  "Substantial evidence supports the conclusion Scientology leaders made the deliberate decision to ruin Wollersheim economically and possible psychologically.... We do not mean to suggest Scientology's retributive program as described in the evidence of this case represented a full scale modern day "inquisition." Nevertheless there are some parallels in purpose and effect. "Fair game" like the "inquisition" targeted "heretics."  "Other testimony established Scientology is a hierarchal organization which exhibits near paranoid attitudes toward certain institutions and individuals---in particular the government, mental health professions, disaffected members, and others who criticize the organization or its leadership... During trial, Wollersheim's experts testified Scientology's "auditing" and "disconnect" practices constituted "brainwashing" and "thought reform" akin to what the Chinese and North Koreans practiced on American prisoners of war." "A religious practice which takes place in the context of this level of coercion has less religious value than one the recipient engages in voluntarily. Even more significantly, it poses a greater threat to society to have coerced religious practices inflicted on its citizens."  "Using its position as religious leader, the church and its agents coerced Wollersheim into continuing auditing even though his sanity was repeatedly threatened by this practice... Thus there is adequate proof the religious practice in this instance caused real harm to the individual and the appellant's outrageous conduct caused that harm... Church practices conducted in a coercive environment are not qualified to be voluntary religious practices entitled to first amendment religious freedom guarantees." "We hold that the state has a compelling interest in allowing its citizens to recover for serious emotional injuries they suffer through religious practices they are coerced into accepting. Such conduct is too outrageous to be protected under the constitution and too unworthy to be privileged under the law of torts."  U.S. v Kuch 288 F Sup. 439 (1968):  "Those who seek constitutional protections for their participation in an establishment of religion and freedom to practice its beliefs must not be permitted the special freedoms this special sanctuary may provide merely by adopting religious nomenclature and cynically using it as a shield to protect them when participating in anti social conduct that otherwise stands condemned."  United States v. Article or Device, Etc., 333 F.Supp. 357 (D.D.C. 1971) [regarding Scientology's "E-Meter"]:  "The bulk of the material is replete with false medical and scientific claims devoid of any religious overlay or reference." (333 F.Supp. at 361) "The Court's opinion directly and forcefully confronts the issue of claimed First Amendment protection by Scientology. The Court then held that the practice of Scientology was secular." (333 F.Supp. at 359 Commissioners of the City of Clearwater, Florida, public hearings, May 5-10, 1982. The Commission received documentary and testimonial evidence with respect to the operation, activities and conduct of Scientology. Based upon the sworn testimony of witnesses, affidavits, state and federal court decisions, and miscellaneous documents reviewed and considered, the Commission made the following factual recitation: "Evidentiary fact:The Church of Scientology is currently engaged in a nationwide conspiracy to impede and obstruct municipal, state and federal taxing authorities, by adopting a religious and charitable guise to avoid payment of taxes."Scientology's internal policies state: "They (the public) want ministers. We will show them what ministers look like" (Vol. 1 p.41). "Churches are looked upon as reform groups. Therefore, we must act like a reform group" (Vol.1 p.196). "Scientology has nothing to do with religion. The Church did not adopt the religious guise until it was necessary to seek First Amendment protection (Vol.4 p.405)."Scientology uses a religious image checklist designed to falsely portray a religious image to mislead officials (Vol. 2 p.238,239). "Church policy instructs members to lie to inquiring officials (Vol.1 p.226,227).  Documentary evidence in Church of Spiritual Technology vs U.S., November 22, 1989 :"The goal of the department [of governmental affairs] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by a high level ability to control and in its absence by a low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control suchagencies." -- LRH "The purpose of the legal officer is to help LRH handle every legal, government, suit, accounting and tax contact or action... and to bring the greatest possible confusion and loss to its enemies." -- LRH  "Guardian Order 060971" seized in FBI authorized search of Scientology headquarters: "The vital targets on which we must invest most of our time are:(T1) Depopularizing the enemy to the point of obliteration. (T2) Taking over the control or allegiance of the heads or proprietors of all news media. (T3) Taking over the control or allegiance of key political figures.(T4) Taking over the control or allegiance of those who monitor international finance..."  Documentary evidence in the Armstrong case: "You can be merciless whenever your will is crossed and you have the right to be merciless." -- LRH  California Supreme Court, in United States v. Lee 455 U.S. 252,257,258 (1982):  "When a person is subjected to coercive persuasion [as in Scientology] without his knowledge or consent ...[he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self-mutilation, and suicide." Collection of quotes collected by F.A.C.T. Net, web page made and hosted by Operation Clambake 

TheGuest
TheGuest

Just saw something that reminded me and answers your question:August 12 is Sea Org Day!  

These days that must mean some tobasco sauce for the rice and beans, andno beatings before 7 a.m. or after 6 a.m.

Hunterdogs
Hunterdogs

MJM, I must confess complete ignorance of the information you are alluding to on your post. Can you refer me to longer articles I can read on the various matters you mention?

Brian
Brian

I know how you feel -- Scientology-watching is powerfully addictive. I was never involved at all, but a few years ago I got hooked by the St. Pete Times articles on Miscavige's abuse. Since then, I've followed the Scientology wars like a soap opera. It's the best there is!

Old OT7
Old OT7

Welcome to our cyber clubhouse, Songbyrd76!  Our president is Tony Ortega.  It's good to have you here!  We look forward to your posts!  Were you ever a member?

Schockenawd
Schockenawd

The motion that got Scientology to finally pay Wollersheim was filed in court in Los Angeles, along with a mountain of evidence to support it.  It's public record; should still be in the archives there somewhere.  It was all about following the trail, the movement of money and resources away from the church that owed Wollersheim $millions to other entities, where the money would presumably be safe from his claim.  For example, one item of evidence was the transcript of a speech by Miscavige from years before, in which he gloated in front of a group of diehards about the newly revamped corporate structure of Scientology and how it was "impregnable."  Months went by.  Scientology tried every trick in the book (and made up some new tricks, too; afterall, you gotta attack, attack, attack).  Lawyers traveled back and forth from New York at 500 bucks an hour (and that was almost 10 years ago, mind you).  They cried foul and feigned indignance and played the religious discrimination card ad nauseum.  But then they ran out of options and paid the gazillions of thin dimes they owed Wollersheim.  I guess they were a little bit pregnant.  But just a little bit.  It's ten years later, and here we still are, wondering when their house of cards is going to crash down around them.  It seems imminent, right?  We thought it was imminent back then. 

TonyOrtega
TonyOrtega

It's all in the story I wrote, which I linked to from that story. The Vaughn Young affidavit that it's built on must be on the 'net somewhere.

Diana Etics
Diana Etics

 These are great quotes!  Thanks for providing them! 

I hope people take the time to read through them all.  Very interesting stuff!

marcotai
marcotai

All those quotes that you reported were all dismissed by other judges and politicianswith no hatred prejudices and hidden agendas.

in particular the Anderson report in Australia.

This report led directly to an unconstitutional law "prohibiting" the practice of Scientology in Victoriaand West Australia. This law didn't last long because the Churchpersisted and prevailed in making the truth known. The law was repealed,the Deputy Premier of West Australia personally apologized (he had had nopart in the discrimination himself) and called the ban a black day in thehistory of Australia

 Then in 1983, all 5 High Court judges of Australiafound that the Church of Scientology is a bona fide religion and fullyentitled to tax exemption. In fact, that decision, overturning a ruling bya Victoria court established the definition of religious freedom forthe Australian constitution for the first time and in so doing gaveprotections to many other religious groups in Australia.

Joe_Lynn
Joe_Lynn

Yeah.  Imminent is pretty damn slippery :) 

Which is at least *one* reason not to settle this time.  Full prosecution of the organization with full disclosure.  Nothing else will be enough.

XenuBodyThetan
XenuBodyThetan

Your Wollersheim story is my favorite.  Second favorite is your story about Tory, particularly the scene that makes me laugh tears is where Tory is being chased through LAX by the desperate pleading OSA handler.  "Don't go Tory!   Please!"

Old OT7
Old OT7

Hey Tony!

What if you're the guy that finally brings down their house of cards?  You'd probably be nominated for the  Pulitzer Price.  Maybe even the Nobel Peace Price! 

Your blog has been THE greatest site I've been regarding Retarded Thugs From Outer Space!  All of here just can't get enough!

Joe_Lynn
Joe_Lynn

I included a link to some of those transcripts on your facebook/work product page Tony, but, people can find it by googling   dandar disqualification hearings  .

It's now located at Xenu-Directory

Anon A
Anon A

An intriguing read!  I will begin digging online for that affidavit immediately.

Andie
Andie

Allways attack, never defend, eh Obnosi?

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Since when does a legal manuver in one country and on one matter negate the abundance of still standing judgements made in other countries? Only in Scientologyland!

Your comment reminds me of the ignorance that scientologists, particularly uneducated members of staff and the Sea Org, fall so easily into. A does not equal A. Even Hubbard told you so.

And since you are not allowed to read the news, you probably didn't know that the days of Scientology's 'good' standing in Australia are numbered. And that there are many more court cases and judicial decisions and you need to get to educating yourself.

Anon A
Anon A

You're speaking as if things were all swell for Scientology in Australia right now, but that's not really the case is it?  The Australian people don't seem to have a lot of love or patience for the CoS's tax dodging schemes or unethical cover-ups.Ask Jan Eastgate about that.

TonyOrtega
TonyOrtega

Thanks XBT, those are my two favorites too, although I'm partial to Tory's most of all. The drama in her emails with Andreas was really something,

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