First Video from Germany: Ex-Scientology Exec Marty Rathbun On Meeting with Ursula Caberta

Scientology watchers around the world are watching keenly for any news out of Germany as today Marty Rathbun made his first public remarks there in the presence of Ursula Caberta.

Quick background: Rathbun was once the second-most powerful executive in Scientology. He left the church in 2004 and has been criticizing Scientology leader David Miscavige on his blog since 2009. Caberta, meanwhile, has been leading an official German government effort to curb Scientology in that country since 1992.

As Rathbun explains in the video above (which he just posted himself), even though he still practices Scientology independently, there's a good reason he's now willing to help Caberta in her efforts.

We'll keep an eye on further developments. Over at the Anonymous website, Why We Protest, there's a steady stream of reports about a Scientology protest outside the building where Rathbun's press conference took place, and more observations being posted by the minute.

My quick transcription of what Rathbun says in the video...

Rathbun: Well, to the first part, I came here because I was invited by Mrs. Caberta to give facts about the top, highest levels of the church of Scientology. And, the second part of your question, yes, I still practice Scientology, and one of the things that I learned from talking to Mrs. Caberta was, is that she's had the same observation I have: there's been a tremendous proliferation of people leaving the organization because they're getting educated that they don't need the organization, that it's not a monopoly. Miscavige is not the pope. He doesn't have a beeline to God, who's giving him new scriptures that's going to take them to higher levels. And people are understanding that more. But, the thing we agreed on is this: there's this whole phenomenon happening where people are using Scientology in what we call the independent field, away from the church, unauthorized by the church. And, no matter, you know this is, it's not organized. It's also known as the Free Zone, in Europe. It's not, there's no organization to it. And the interesting thing is, is that, all the people that I have encountered or come in contact with who left the organization to use Scientology on a one-to-one basis all agree on certain things. And Mrs. Caberta told me she studied the Free Zone in Germany and in Europe and came to the same conclusion, and that is this: Everyone you find outside of the church who continues to use Scientology, left Scientology because they don't agree with people being forcibly disconnected from their families. They don't agree with people being put into extremely painful financial situations. They don't agree with people who have a different opinion being attacked, being harassed, and being hounded. They don't agree on virtually all of the things that the Ministry, through Mrs. Caberta, investigate, which are the abuses of Scientology.

Caberta: Yeah.

Rathbun: So, that's why this is not unusual that we're sitting here together.


More video from Germany. Hamburg's Anonymous crew posted this portion of the press conference, in which Rathbun talks about the latter days of his time in Scientology and the increasing incidents of violence under the leadership of David Miscavige...

And now a question-and-answer segment...



The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

See all of our recent Scientology coverage at the Voice

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared

Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications. Among his other stories about L. Ron Hubbard's organization:

The Larry Wollersheim Saga -- Scientology Finally Pays For Its Fraud
The Tory Bezazian (Christman) Story -- How the Internet Saved A Scientologist From Herself
The Jason Beghe Defection -- A Scientology Celebrity Goes Rogue
The Robert Cipriano Case -- A Hellacious Example of Fair Game
The Paul Haggis Ultimatum -- The 'Crash' Director Tells Scientology to Shove It
The Marc Headley Escape -- 'Tom Cruise Told Me to Talk to a Bottle'
The Aaron Saxton Accusation -- Australia turns up the heat on Scientology
The Jefferson Hawkins Stipulation -- Scientology's former PR genius comes clean
The Daniel Montalvo Double-Cross -- Scientology lures a young defector into a trap
A Church Myth Debunked -- Scientology and Proposition 8
Daniel Montalvo Strikes Back -- Scientology Hit with Stunning Child-Labor Lawsuits
When Scientologists Attack -- The Marty Rathbun Intimidation
A Scientologist Excommunicated -- The Michael Fairman SP Declaration
The Richard Leiby Operation -- Investigating a reporter's divorce to shut him up
The Hugh Urban Investigation -- An academic takes a harsh look at Scientology's past
Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh -- A precedent for a Scientology-Branch Davidian link
Janet Reitman's Inside Scientology -- A masterful telling of Scientology's history
The Western Spy Network Revealed? -- Marty Rathbun ups the ante on David Miscavige
Scientology's Enemies List -- Are You On It?
Inside Inside Scientology -- An interview with author Janet Reitman
Scientology and the Nation of Islam -- Holy Doctrinal Mashup, Batman!
Scientologists -- How Many of Them Are There, Anyway?
Roger Weller's Wild Ride -- Scientology When it was Hip
The Marc Headley Infiltration -- A Scientology Spying Operation Revealed
Placido Domingo Jr: Scientology's Retaliation is "Scary and Pathetic"
An Interview with Nancy Many, Former Scientology Spy
The Paulien Lombard Confession -- A Scientology Spy Comes Clean
The Deputy Benjamin Ring Hard Sell -- Scientology wants your 401K
The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology -- the whole series!
The Squirrel Busters Busted -- Unmasking the Scientology PI in Charge
Tommy Davis, Scientology spokesman, secretly recorded discussing 'disconnection'
Scientology internal document says its Office of Special Affairs will 'handle' the Village Voice

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255 comments
dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Old Timer, the investigation into Lisa McPherson's death was at one time a murder investigation.  Marty allegedly obstructed it by destroying documents relating to the case if I'm not mistaken.  Others have referred to his admission of that tho I have no direct knowledge of it myself.

Old Timer
Old Timer

Thanks for your reply. Now that you have reminded me, I recall reading about Marty's obstruction of justice in the McPherson case. I believe I read about it on Marty's blog.

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

When an anonymous person interjects something sliemy about my children into a public debate unprovoked, I know I am dealing with scum who are no different than the scumbags who sliemed me on behalf of the cult back in the 90s.  But wait.  I bet these are the very same people who are now "reforming" the cult.  No.  Make that re-forming the cult.

Theoracle
Theoracle

Yeah, A=A me with someone from the 1990's?  Right, I must be that same one!  We are ALL the same.  Anyone who confronts you is out to get to you!  Anyone who challenges your verbal abuses is, why, we are all OSA and all part of a cult and all out to get you.

Really, I think you should consider some kind of drugs.  If not prescribed by a mental health professional, at least find someone who can get you some weed. There is medical marijuana now and it is legal for a reason.

Old Timer
Old Timer

Appears mental.

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Right OTimer.  They are exactly the same kinds of sliemy actions the cult does to dissenters.  Only these are re-formed scienos practicing a kinder, gentler form of Dead Agenting.

Old Timer
Old Timer

A does equal A. They are the same.

My eleven year-old grandchild says you are cuckoo.

Theoracle
Theoracle

A twelve year old would say something like that. Is that the best you can do?

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

I wonder if anybody will bother to ask Marty the most obvious question:

Which specific parts of Hubbard's Tek, ethics and administrative dogma is he ready to renounce and omit from his new, improved scieno program.  Espee tek?  Introspection Rundown Tek?  Body Thetan tek?  Lower Conditions?  PR tek?  TR-L? 

Or is just getting rid of the Poodle enough reform for him?

Xenu
Xenu

Dennis, I'm sure that anyone asking that (and there have probably been some) has had their post deleted and been site-banned.  DM's CoS has altered materials, and DM is called a squirrel because of that.  Marty, just like DM, could not reform Scientology, due to Hubbard's... John Galt sized ego, in the form of the KSW mindfuck.  Hubbard is the one and only infallible Pope.  Change, delete, or even cast aspersions on one letter and you're a squirrel, and the lowest form of life in the universe.  Every Scientologist knows this.  It's the poison pill that Scientology has been sucking on for decades. 

Most actual religions have survived to this point by having some flexibility.  You can be a traditional monotheist without thinking that the world was literally created in 6 days.  And the religions themselves reformed, as when, under great US pressure, Bringham Young had a revelation from God that Mormon polygamy would have to stop.  Scientologists can't have revelations, they'd need a reincarnated LRH, and that's not happening.  Someone could try coming up with some "lost writings of LRH," but suspension of disbelief would have to be thick for that to work out.  Either they admit that Hubbard was flawed, rip up KSW and embrace their squirreldom, or they're screwed.  If they embrace squirreldom, they will no longer be unified; every squirrel will have their own ideas about which LRH writings should, or should not, be thrown out.  Centralized leadership, with buckets of money, abused zombie followers, and a huge lack of scruples, is what's kept things going this long.  Without those, they'd quickly fade into nothingness.  Marty would have killed Scientology.

Would someone please pass the popcorn?

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Yah I agree, X.  And I have to admit it is kinda enjoyable to see the Poodle's attack dog turn and bite back.  I'm hoping they bloody each other up good.  With butter and salt, plz.

Theoracle
Theoracle

Marty does not make you hate.  Marty does not make you abusive. That's on you.

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

I actually do hate scum like Orc who can do nothing but spew the Dead Agent material that was given him by others.  I hate the stupidity of someone who would do that.  I would never do that, no matter how brainwashed I was. 

Theoracle
Theoracle

You scared me away!  I'm no match for you!  You win!

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Yes, please run away you anonymous coward.  Spew your scieno-speak and DA material elsewhere.

Theoracle
Theoracle

Good effort on dead agenting me Dennis. I mean here you are, dead agenting me , while saying "I would never do that".  The communication with you is surreal.  You just aren't lucid enough for me to argue with. I'm not teasing you anymore because you are clearly already over restimulated.  Best wishes for your recovery.

Warrior
Warrior

I'd love to see Marty's answer to these questions (re: SP/PTS "tech", Introspection R/D, BTs, lower conditions, PR "tech", TR-L, etc.), too, Dennis. But I think Marty is several years away from ever admitting that the true source of the madness is Hubbard, not Miscavige. In fact, I strongly doubt Marty's ability to admit the source of the madness. To do so, he'd have to stop deriving his livelihood from "auditing" and make a living doing something sane. I don't see that happening soon, if ever. I hope I am wrong. 

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Yah he's clearly enjoying doing his old posts again, Warz.  Deriving a loyal, braindead following like Orc and thereby income from it.  I wonder how he accounts for the income?  Does he have a non-profit, u think, where he doesn't pay tax on it?  Or is it reported income?

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Maybe Mr Ortega can ask some of these questions of Marty when he does his after-germany interview.

Warrior
Warrior

Good questions. I haven't seen any evidence that Marty is incorporated as a non-profit, but then I haven't specifically been looking for this information. I'll leave that up to the IRS.

DMSTCC
DMSTCC

Newb or Troll on Marty's site VS Margaret  - This is getting really really fun.Gern Gaschoen | September 8, 2011 at 7:49 pm | Reply>Modifying or cancelling certain LRH policies has to be on the table for this to occur.I don’t agree. What is needed is better Scientologists who actually read the policies, understand them, understand the purpose and intention of LRH in writing these policies and placing them within the doctrine very specifically, and carefully. Scientologists who apply the policies from the perspective of understanding, not under duress.For “Fair Game” and “Disconnection” to have been applied at all, in the absence of any truly really good Scientology PR, has been criminal. To have been using it against “Grandma, who only knows about Scientology what she got from her own personal cults” all these years.. forget it: Fair Game is not applicable in this situation, in my opinion.Fair Game is a very delicate policy and it is a drastic, dire one, but it definitely has its uses, and to remove any education about Fair Game as a process for handling situations in ones life, would be a serious omitted in the philosophy of Scientology.If Fair Game is to be applied in the future, it is to be applied with HIGH ARC and KRC, effectively: BUT ONLY IN UTTERLY DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES, and certainly never against critics or only as a handling for some PR flap. Fair Game is the end of all PR, by the way, and is a dire survival tactic; but it *is* a tactic, and should be understood.Against the rioters attempting to burn your building and drag your staff out on the streets for a lynching, if all else fails: Fair Game is applicable, and therefore worth educating staff on. Fair Game is valuable as a policy in only the direst of circumstances; where even Government itself, has already failed.Fair Game has its time, and its place: when you HAVE to fight back. I wouldn’t consider applying it, though, in an Org situation in anything less than a near-total, or total, failure of the state (as in, Civil) and would be applying it with Org Staff in protecting someone from a psychopath.Would I apply Fair Game in a terrorist situation in a big Org? You bet.Now, HANDLE, or DISCONNECT. Definitely mis-applied, definitely a supressive use of the technology of disconnection, which purpose has been perverted over the years in lieu of truly effect handlings.But, for sure, there are times when disconnect is *the* handling for the situation. Ever taken a real prostitute whose pimp is scouring the city trying to find them into session? I have; and it won’t happen unless disconnect has been very well done.So you see, these policies have a purpose, and they have a meaning. That they have been criminally applied by psychopaths installed in the corporate body known as the Church of Scientology is definitely unfair to those of use who may well use these policies, effectively, and with good purpose and results, to improve conditions in life.Margaret | September 8, 2011 at 9:58 pm | ReplyI wrote: “>Modifying or cancelling certain LRH policies has to be on the table for this to occur.”Gern wrote: “I don’t agree. …”Gern, I read your whole post, and I do agree that the lack of “big picture” understanding of policy is a large part of this. However, when LRH (and the early execs) were on the line, cancelling/modifying/adjusting policy was the norm … it was done carefully and judiciously, but it was done with transparency and with the full view of the old cancelled/modified policies listed, with reasons why they were changed/cancelled.That is the sane approach.What we’ve had the last 30 years has been obfuscation and a pretense of “always and forever perfect policy” — that LRH could predict every possible societal, political and technological change. That was the lie that was added. And it hasn’t been working out too well.All I’m saying is — if it ever even gets to that point — let’s return to a sane, transparent approach, where policy change is allowed and stays in step with changes in society and the environment.

Theoracle
Theoracle

This is from the PDC tape 21:“You will look at this just aghast and uh.. you will say, “Look, uh..no, no intelligent civilization could witness such a thing as this going on.Don’t kid yourselves. It’s not an intelligent civilization. We’re trying tomake one out of it. And you got a long way to go.”LRH

DMSTCC
DMSTCC

I am a formatard

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Thanks to the "Edit" button, you can repair glitches after posting. Also note that cut and paste will often result in paragraphlessness at this blog, so always remember that the "Edit" button is your friend.

Sid
Sid

Wow, they're going really crazy over at Marty's website. They're congratulating him and celebrating and having a wild old party.

Now I'm trying to work out why that is, and the only reason I can think of is that they genuinely believed that Ursula was some kind of evil SP out to destroy all Scientologists.

It's like, you know Scientologists have been massively lied to by their Church, but when it hits you in the face like that it's quite alarming to see it, and amazing to see their reactions when the truth is revealed.

I could be all cynical, but I'm going to enjoy the moment since it's not every day you hear Scientologists admit they were wrong about something. Oh well.....one down, nine hundred and ninety nine lies to go then.

I think there are wins all around from this visit of Marty's:-

1. It's a win for Marty since he has proven, at least to his band of followers and other Scientology lurkers that there is actually nothing to fear from the German government. They are just one of the many organizations around the world (including Anonymous) who are trying to put ethics in on the Church of Scientology.

2. It's a win for the Germans who can use the visit as proof to any clueless US state officials that there is no persecution of Scientologists in Germany, only a desire to put ethics in on the Church of Scientology.

3. It's a win for everyone else who enjoys imagining the fury of one DM at the sight of all this, and how difficult it will be for him in future to raise money on the pretext of fighting against the Germans who clearly don't want a fight, they just want the CoS to stop the abuses.

I would just like to point out to any lurkers that actually nothing in Germany has changed. Ursula is still Ursula. She offered years ago to help Mike Rinder if he needed asylum. She would have met Marty two years ago if Marty had accepted her earlier invitation, but I guess he perhaps had to choose his moment.

In fact, when Marty said the other day "I have Miscavige right where I want him" it does make me wonder if he knew that by delaying his visit to Germany, and waiting until he was being really hounded, it would have maximum impact. I mean, the Germans can simply send the US government a video of Marty being harassed by the Squibs and a video of him sat with Ursula, and ask who's showing religious intolerance! I look forward to Anne Archer trying to explain THAT one to her political contacts. German game over.

I do think this poses some interesting questions for Marty though. I was moved to see his apparently genuine remorse over the beatings he gave his friend Mike Rinder. WHEN is he going to show the same level of remorse for the persecution he meted out to people like Gerry Armstrong, or is some persecution ok?

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

No Sid.  Gerry and the rest of the band of us whistleblowers who followed his lead ... we are all Espees and deserved the torment and persecution Marty meted out on us for years.  He certainly hasn't renounced PTS/SP Tek.  So it's the same ol PR drill as far as I can tell.

Warrior
Warrior

I've been trying to get this same question answered by Marty for over two years. So far he has ignored me.

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Amazing, that Marty is NOT followed 24/7 over in Germany, yet here in the US, constant harassment and 24/7 PI over the top clownish surveillance.  Hamburg has always had a huge liberal tradition.   Too bad Marty couldn't have gone over two years ago, before Ursula's office was closed.   But better late than never.   I gotta thank Marty for going over there!   The TV news coverage in Germany that I saw vindicated Ursula, as she well deserved it!   

Joe_Lynn
Joe_Lynn

Chuck, I think it's safe to say that the 'Munchausen' picketers are just the local version of 'SquirrelBusters', and there for exactly the same reasons the SQB are at casablanca; they're props

sketto
sketto

Dear Marty,

Miscavige did not invent the RPF, sec checking, disconnection or fair game - Hubbard did. LRH was not a good man either. You must know this by now.

Miscavige is immoral and deserves exposure as a thug, but you are still deluded if you think you can salvage sanity from Hubbard's insane systems. Why does it not trouble you that this conman, who you think "discovered" such great things, was also responsible for creating the evil practices that Miscavige merely exploited?

Hubbard started this evil shit. Miscavige is just the perfect man for it.

Arielle
Arielle

Wow, Marty cleaned up nice for Hamburg. He even sounds semi-normal and much better than when he is confronting the squirrel busters.

Tardy
Tardy

I honestly get the feeling that Marty Rathburn is trying to position himself as an alternative leader of Scientology and regrets little if anything he has done. His refusal to work with the authorities to dismantle the cult suggests he wants to run it / reform it or whatever but ultimately take control of it.

If he was truely sorry for all the things he did he would talk to the authorities even if he got himself a no prosecution deal and help uncover all these wrongs not just let snippits out to make the current leaders look evil. not that they need much help to look evil.

MarkStark
MarkStark

"Conflageration" = conflagration at Flag land base?

Now hearing the whole conference...Marty bought up some good points, about celebrities putting pressure on politicians to paint Germany as repeating some mistake from the past about being intolerant of religion. I think they knew that already, but it helps having a former high ranking member confess to knowing about what was done.

I agree with Mary that it was not all that intelligible in parts, and a little too rambling.

The part where Marty said "And then I came along, and I didn't attack the tech blah blah." I don't think not attacking the tech was the key to Marty's success. Rather, his former position in the cult, his willingness to put all the blame on Miscavige...it is just what a lot of people struggling in the cult wanted to hear.

The rest of us wanted to hear more details about Miscavige and machinations at the top too, although we'd prefer more first-hand stories about what Marty did himself, and he has told some of those, but not all.

The problem for outsiders like myself, in trusting or believing Marty, is that you can't. I learned so much from people like Astra Woodcraft, Tory, and others that have come clean about the whole scam. Those people are credible compared to Marty and Mike Rinder, because they aren't in the "game" to clear the planet.

If they could both come out and say Scientology is never going to clear the planet or get everyone off drugs, but it just makes some people feel good, or be successful or something, then it might be more tolerable. But they can't say that.

Then, just to ignore all the abuse that occurred under and by Hubbard! It is absurd, and insulting to common sense as well as the testimonies of dozens of people who suffered it.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

I don't know how effective Marty was at this conference. He talks like he chinese schooled a script and is just running it off. I found myself losing interest quickly and I suspect others there did as well. He's fortunate that there were translaters there or I suspect no one would have continued to have paid much attention.

His manner of speaking reminds me of how Tommy Davis spoke in that tape of Shane Clark, where he's rattling off all all the good things the church has done. bla, bla, bla.

Theoracle
Theoracle

How effective were you at that conference?

Between you and Marty which do you think was more effective at that conference?

MarkStark
MarkStark

Sounded fine to me. He had to prepare something. The idea of him "cleaning up" or whatever is like one of his followers who wants to feel free when she walks down the street. And Marty is making that happen. LOL.

Come on, 99% of the population either thinks Scientology is a weird joke, and/or they don't give a crap about it. They do not know who Marty is. They do not know who David Miscavige is, and most of them barely know who Hubbard is.

To Hubbard, it was a big insult for a "5th Invader" to be called a Venusian, and people should smoke more to prevent cancer. When he wasn't busy honing his money-sucking scam, he was spouting stuff like that, being nuttier than a fruitcake.

Now people think this doesn't matter, like the part about his smoking. It did! Kids started smoking to be like Hubbard. Even Sea Org members who didn't smoke were exposed to massive amounts of it in their environment. People like Marty, had no incentive to use their OT powerz, or any Hubbard quackery to "clear" themselves of the nicotine monkey, which is detrimental to their health and everyone's health around them.

That said, my best friend smokes. None of my immediately family members do. Half of my extended family smoked. None of these people professed to practice a philosophy or "tech" that gave them complete control over matter, energy, space and time.

On the other hand, Tony is doing a fantastic job on a series of articles that raises the public's awareness of the many dimensions of Scientology.

If a young person read Dianetics last week, and they felt they absolutely had to try auditing, I wish they would head toward Marty in Texas and do it with him. Unfortunately, that isn't realistic. Marty is still a great half-way house for people in the cult though.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Gee, all that in reponse to one simple comment, LOL.

My point was about the rapidity of his speech, the automaticity of it. I clicked on the video with interest in listening intently but I did not find his manner of speakingnatural or enticing enough to want to listen intently. This is based on the first 2 videos above

For some reason I did not see or listen to the last video posted above when I pos ted my comment and having done so since, I see he's much more natural in that one.

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

There is no reason for people to continue to orbit around the cult, the cult mindset or anti-cult movement when they leave, Mark.  There is also the family basement and a library card to google.  And I suggest that's a hell of a lot healthier for people walking away than continuing to practice the Mindf*ck.  Doncha think?

Endscientology
Endscientology

What's that SOUND????

I hear the cracking of the shallow but stubborn veneer Mr. Rathbun puts on the words of LRH.  I think the positive interaction with the woman he tried to destroy (and the positive interactions with some of the Hamburg Anons) may help all of us in the long run.  I still think he's got narcissistic personality disorder, which is not treatable unless he goes under serious psychiatric treatment, but there had to be some impact to his critical thinking thoughts (doubt formulas, for those that know Scieno-speak) that I hope make him ask the hard questions.

Yes, he touted that he personally was going to 'handle' Ursula and the German people and he will present himself as the hero but he did something extraordinary today.  Sometimes narcissists do good things, even if it was all to further their own opinion of themselves.  For what he did today, and ONLY that, I'll tip my hat.  

He could do so much more.  

 

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

I think that sound you hear is a machine grinding to a halt, then turning in the other direction.

Someone who has been brainwashed has a very hard time accepting that they have been brainwashed. They immediately adopt a defensive posture when the subject is entertained. If they adopt the postures of snarling wolverines, they probably are in Scientology's legal department. The brainwash goes very deep in these people. Remember, though, that the religion of Lawyers—make as much money as you can before being busted—is very close to the religion of LRH. The foundational and central principle of Scientology is to make as much money as possible.

Period.

Auditing is a brainwashing technique. Poison fruit of a poison tree. If Mr. Rathburn thinks he's Luther, all well and good.

But given my druthers, I'd rather go to Quaker meeting, thank you very much.

Ex-ist
Ex-ist

Great that he communicated what's true. There is a difference between the church as run by David Miscavige and people who practice Scientology principles away from it. You wouldn't have a clue I'm a Scientologist (except maybe for the big S tattooed on my forehead) ;0)  The way I chose to gain spiritual enlightenment is my business and shouldn't be lumped into that despicable "church" and anybody speaking up about the differences is great for me because I'm tired of being lumped.

robert
robert

Tony, 

Can you put up the second video that Anon got?  That one is the most important one for the part where Marty calls out the machinations Sci used-celebs, money, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

bulldog
bulldog

Really, we don't have the right to totally abolish Scientology because it works for some people. They have the right to believe but not to abuse!

Even if a person were to believe in a snail and the slimy trail it leaves. Who cares, so be it, as long as no one is hurt, enslaved, financially destroyed, or disconnected from family, friends and society. We don't have the right to pass judgment on all of them.

What I hate reading about is Anonymous not coming to an agreement with Marty. I admire Anonymous greatly and feel a lot of people are coming forward due to them. Matter of fact, I think Anonymous should be #2 on the list and mini Miscaviage #1 because, he and his henchmen have done the most damage.

Anyway, the goal is to find out where the missing people are? Help people blow and let them know we care. Make people aware of the terrible abuse and danger, bring Scientology to their knee's financially by having them payback everyones wages (lawsuits included) and finally help them rebuild a safer less insane Freezone. Don't bicker or turn on each other because thats what DM is counting on.

Its been a long hard fight for a lot of you! Don't give up...stay the course because a lot of people everyday are joining your ranks. I know, because I did. :-)

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