Interns Suing 'Black Swan' Because They Were Interns

black swan.jpg
Two interns are suing Fox Searchlight because as interns, they had to perform intern-like duties on the set of Black Swan. The poor dears had to do things like "preparing coffee for the production office, ensuring that the coffee pot was full, taking and distributing lunch orders for the production staff, taking out the trash and cleaning the office" -- otherwise known as "things that interns do" (except at the Voice, where our interns do real things, for what it's worth). Alex Footman, a 2009 Wesleyan graduate, and a bizarrely old (42) accounting intern named Eric Glatt are co-plaintiffs in a suit claiming that Fox Searchlight violated minimum wage and overtime laws. This certainly won't help their burgeoning film industry careers.

The lawsuit says, "Fox Searchlight's unpaid interns are a crucial labor force on its productions, functioning as production assistants and bookkeepers and performing secretarial and janitorial work. In misclassifying many of its workers as unpaid interns, Fox Searchlight has denied them the benefits that the law affords to employees."

Yes: in general, it sucks to be an unpaid intern, unless you're a Runnin' Scared intern, in which case you've got it made. However, does it suck so much that you should actually sue?

The short answer is no. Footman and Glatt might be justified in their anger, and if Fox Searchlight really was violating regulations that's another thing. But a lawsuit based on people asking you to get them coffee? Yeesh. Footman to the Times: "The only thing I learned on this internship was to be more picky in choosing employment opportunities." Dude, you could have always just quit. It's not like you were getting paid anyway.

Footman, auteur of Wesleyan student film "Pyrrhic Victory," hasn't yet returned our request for comment.

[via NYT]

[rgray@villagevoice.com] [@_rosiegray]

Go to Runnin' Scared for more Voice news coverage.


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78 comments
duyou
duyou

It's pretty black and white.  Either you are cut out for it or you are not.  Wake up! This is the real world and it seems to me these youngins got plenty of experience and valuable contacts.  Too bad they threw it down the drain when they decided to become little bitches.  Bye bye film career. 

Megan Keith
Megan Keith

To all of the people who are stating we don't understand the 'industry' and this is how internships work, I have a question.

Would you prefer to serve coffee and clean offices in an internship (unpaid or not), or would you prefer that internships work as they are defined, as future career training?

I am a network engineer and my company has interns, both paid and unpaid. Neither type serve me coffee or clean my office. They assist with beginner network development. The joke is on you if you think this is okay, just because "that's how it is". The truth is, that is not how it is for the rest of us.

Chonzo
Chonzo

Interns aren't qualified for most entry level jobs. Most of them are in-experienced delusional  idiots. If there weren't unpaid internships these people wouldn't get to work in their desired field.

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

Please, if you would, distinguish unpaid internships from indentured servitude. If you can, then great. If you can't, then beg your editor to remove this rancid trash from the internet before it becomes a permanent stain on your record. The law is the fucking law for a reason. If an internship is to be unpaid, it must be primarily for the benefit of the intern, not the employer. Please note on which side of the line making coffee falls. The facts alleged are not whining -- they actually establish the case that what Fox Searchlight did is illegal. Not "violating regulations," like it's some minor technicality. It is illegal.

Take your bitching about other people's lives and shove it up your obviously over-privileged ass.

splan
splan

You've mocked an entirely legitimate claim of labor abuse for the sole purpose of writing this smarmy piece of shit, way to go.

Jax
Jax

As someone who also worked numerous unpaid film jobs with the title "intern" its hard to choose a side here.  Yea yea "pay your dues"  "make connections"  "we all did it"  Right ive heard it.  But like someone else has mentioned, these unpaid internships destroy entry level jobs.  Go to Craigslist and look at want ads in film.  90% of them are unpaid "intern" positions.  And usually require some experience.  The unpaid intern concept is no longer being used to help a college student gain practical experience, but mostly to get free labor.Sometimes being an intern feels more like hazing than helping.A lawsuit though?  Thats a bit much.

Emily
Emily

Is it really necessary to mock Footman's work as a student filmmaker? Irrelevant.

Kayla Mallery
Kayla Mallery

Clearly you don't understand "worst recession since the Great depression" do you not understand? But sure judge people based on your experience, I'm sure it's equivalent.

Sean
Sean

Yeah, I'm kind of shocked that a dude who just graduated film school would throw away all the money he spent on that education by chasing a lawsuit that he almost certainly can't win.  I guess he's assuming that they'll settle, but, now that this case is so prominent, it's in Fox Searchlight's best interest (and, indeed, that of all the studios) to not settle, lest they open the floodgates for every intern to try and get a quick buck.

Sean
Sean

"Would you prefer to serve coffee and clean offices in an internship (unpaid or not), or would you prefer that internships work as they are defined, as future career training?"

It isn't mutually exclusive, and that's what people who haven't work in film don't seem to realize, and is why they react so strongly in this case.

It breaks down like this; in all my film experience, I'm only aware of one place that trains you specifically to be a PA, and that's a school in LA that charges a silly amount of money to "train" you.  There is also a program in NYC where, in exchange for tax credits, productions can hire on parolees as PAs; they get a one day training which basically consists of being told "never ever sit down and don't talk back to anybody."  Beyond that, there's nothing.  But it's even worse than that -- most people who have gone to film school have received the sort of training that you have to unlearn.  On a film school set, everybody is encouraged to help out, even the PA.  On a real set, a PA acting like he was on a film school set will be fired, and that's why they rarely hire people to be PAs out of film school.

The internship on a film production *is* a valuable learning tool.  You learn how to behave and what you will be expected to do if you want to work on a film set.  Many people I knew in school finished their internship and switched majors, because they realized they definitely didn't want to work in film -- isn't that a good thing to learn while you're still in school?  The people who wanted to all managed to parlay their internships into paid gigs, because they now had experience working on an actual film production and had made connections. 

The comparison to "network development" is a bit of apples and oranges.  A film internship can only lead to one future job -- you'll get a production assistant job.  It may be in a specific department, but it's still the only job an internship will lead to.  And, so, yes, menial labor is an important part of that job.  Getting 100 lunch orders exactly right and delivered quickly *is* an important part of being a PA, just as learning how to develop a network is important to be a network developer.  The thing to remember is that working on a film set in most capacities *is* a terrible job.  And it sounds like the kid here learned that.  (The other guy, the older accountant, I honestly don't see how anybody can argue that he didn't receive the training he wanted or get relevant experience out of it.)

duyou
duyou

And we aren't the rest.  You seem like you probably do a good job.  The issue, no offense, is that you're just a little naive.  These kids were experienced 'future career training' but were just too dumb to realize it.  I hope they don't see a penny because they do not deserve it.

Rob Rosegren
Rob Rosegren

Ok well keep talking out of your ass, because you obviously know better than someone who has worked for free on films and now gets paid to do it.  YOU would know how its supposed to work.  Maybe I should make myself clear.  These interns could have learned so much more than just making coffee and cleaning up the office, but they obviously just stuck to getting lunch, etc and didn't use the opportunity to meet people and learn about the other jobs that the people in the office were doing.  Or maybe they just didn't tell you about the other experiences they had, so they could start this frivolous lawsuit.  Either way, its their fault if they didn't learn anything from the experience and use it to their advantage.   

Megan Keith
Megan Keith

You should look up the definition for "entry level". Here, I'll provide it for you: "An entry-level job is a job that is normally designed or designated for recent graduates of a given discipline, and *does not require prior experience in the field or profession*. These may require some *on-site training*."

The issue within this article is not that they were unpaid, it's that they were unpaid and did not receive any career-related training, which is basically the definition of the word Internship.

The law is on their side, as it should be. Why do people support corporate wrong-doing?http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/co...

duyou
duyou

You're entitled to your opinion, but no production company will ever hire you. And justifiably so.

Rob Rosegren
Rob Rosegren

That's the point though.  You don't have to take the intern jobs.  You and everyone else can pass them by.  I agree, there are some really foolish ads out there expecting people to have knowledge and skills equal to a union crew and expecting to pay little or nothing.  The best thing you can do is laugh at the ad, or even bring attention to it on your local google group, or to the art community where its posted, but to sue is self defeating.  Now the guy will never get a film job.

I agree with you, once you've worked as an intern once or twice you've probably gotten everything out of it that you can.  Work those contacts, or find a new line of work.

Rob Rosegren
Rob Rosegren

Footman was not a student filmmaker.  He was an intern.  There is a difference.

duyou
duyou

I think the real issue is that these kids have no ass hole tolerance.  Sure, I did both film and non industry internships.  You can guess which one has the most pricks.  You have to have kind of a thick skin and sometimes get treated like shit.

The thing is, this shouldn't change.  Assholes in the industry tend to also be pretty brilliant.  Their artists in a way.  The film students are used to just dealing with a professor who's gonna be all lax and hold their hand through everything.  That's fine for film school.

But when it comes to the movies, nobody's interested in who you were as a student.  You're a nobody before you're a somebody.  I hear about it all the time—the kid in the mailroom, landing that gig later—You gotta use your street smarts a little, and once again  just keep the 'eyes on the prize'

But you better believe these kids weren't looking for education.  LOL they want a job! And you get the job from just picking up things as they come, being observant and having good work ethic and just a can-do attitude.  They couldn't even take out the garbage without complaining.  So, how are they going to be when they have to go home at 1 am after a long day.  

You wonder why hollywood has so many bars? Cause it's stressful and it is work.  P Film is art, but the art aspect has everything to do with imagining a movie and nothing to do with the movie business.  

In order to have good art, you have to have people who you can depend on for everything to help you.  If you can't deal with ass holes, who have every right to be ass holes cause a lot is on the line, you're just not cut out for it.

Megan Keith
Megan Keith

Also the WHD (Wage and Hour Division) of the US Labor Board states that the following 6 criteria must be met for unpaid interns and their employers.

The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment.

The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern. (Relevant) The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff.The employer that provides the training *derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern*; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded. (You read that correctly?? The employer MAY NOT DERIVE AN ADVANTAGE FROM AN UNPAID INTERN.)The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship,The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

Megan Keith
Megan Keith

You cannot prove any of the statements you just made. You don't know the situation between the interns and Fox Searchlight, and have no facts to support the statement that they 'could have learned so much more'.

You also didn't answer my question.

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

And production companies are entitled to their illegal position that get the pants sued off of them.

This isn't my "opinion," by the way -- this is the law.

Dan
Dan

You have to take intern jobs, because that's the only way anyone will hire you. And many employers take huge advantage of that.

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

Missed again. The link at the end was to a student film Footman made.

Sue
Sue

Do you even realize how lame that is? If you don't care about the law, you shouldn't be participating in this discussion. It's a LAWsuit, moron. No, you can't sue anything that doesn't go your way, you can sue about things that are actually illegal, and that's what happened here. Your point?

Sean
Sean

The DOL has changed its interpretation of that; it's now “productive work performed by the mentees would be offset by the burden to the employers from the training and supervision provided.”  Which makes a lot of sense -- how much hands on training can an intern get in any field if they aren't allowed to do anything that can benefit the company in any way?

Nate
Nate

You know who does care about the law? The courts. I interned extensively in Hollywood. I agree that there is a great deal of intangible value to the experience, coffee runs, demeaning personal errands and all. However, I've also long been of the belief that we in the entertainment industry would have a huge potential legal mess on our hands if our internship practices ever got into the courts. The reality is that our accepted practices absolutely violate minimum wage laws. The sad part is, these two pricks are the only ones who are going to get paid handsomely when Fox settles this to avoid a costly class action suit and the good soldiers who didn't speak up will still be begging to get on a set or a desk. The question is, will companies start looking at unpaid internships as the enormous liabilities that they are?

Rob Rosegren
Rob Rosegren

Yeah, I really don't care about the legal aspect.  I'm not interested in arguing law so you can put those excerpts away.  I was just  saying that they could have made the most of the internship and learned something.  Lots of things aren't fair in life, that's why you have to work at it.  You can't just sue every time something doesn't go your way.

Sean
Sean

Rob's got it right.  The only thing I would add is that, in my experience, it's pretty rare to have an intern actually on set.  The obvious reason for this is that shooting a film is too time-sensitive and they don't have a lot of time to waste on training an intern and then making sure he does it right.  That's why internships tend to be in the production office.  A decent-sized shoot will already have a union trainee or two anyway, and that's more than enough.  That's definitely why you virtually never see "lighting intern" or "sound intern", because nobody wants to put important stuff that already takes too much time in most people's opinion in the hands of unskilled workers.

duyou
duyou

The proof is that it happened to me and other people I know and we all share the same characteristics in that we do not complain when we are given shit to do, because we recognize that it's not really shit.  It's work.  The people who fail incidentally, all share the same characteristics too.  As I said, it's pretty black and white.  You either got it or you don't and I hope it remains this way.

Rob Rosegren
Rob Rosegren

Ok, maybe that sounded a little hostile, but the difference is, Film is not like any other job.  You are a network engineer.  Your interns go to college to learn the skills needed for that job.  When they intern they expect to learn the real world applications of that.  In film, almost everyone is freelance, and everyone has a different job (most that you can't go to school and learn).  Interns work on a film need to learn the dynamics of a production office, or film set and learn what job they really want to pursue.  You may go through film school like my wife and then discover that you weren't even exposed to what you really wanted to learn about which was being a prop master, or a designer, or set decorator.  The point is you can't learn that until you're there, and that's the point of an internship.  Whatever they may be doing, they're learning how it all works.  You may think its not fair, but you don't have to take the internship.

Kayla Mallery
Kayla Mallery

Real jobs are readily available as well. Especially living wage jobs. Gee, I don't see why see why they didn't just take those. Where have you been? Clearly not paying attention. http://www.good.is/post/the-sc... You ever work an internship or stick with a job at McDonald's. Companies are doing this on purpose by splitting once median wage jobs into two minimum wage jobs (and even high paying jobs are getting the same cuts). They follow scheduling practices like Walmart and make people work harder than ever before. There are no options.

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

Sure, in a sense. But I'm not exactly claiming original credit here -- this is the DOL's interpretation of the law, which carries a fair amount of weight.

Sean
Sean

No, it's your interpretation of the law.

Biz
Biz

You guys are ridiculous. While you're over here arguing law, the people in the industry are teaching you about reality. In reality Fox will just settle this case and go on doing what they do. Meanwhile I hope these bums get something good out of it because they will never work again.

Nick15
Nick15

Duyo: 

You have absolutely failed to discuss the FLSA in any substantive manner. As you may not know, in most circumstances, someone cannot agree to a violation of the law. For example, I cannot agree to allow you to kill me - that is still a homicide. Similarly, interns cannot agree to a violation of the FLSA.Look at the black letter law. The law is there for a purpose. Now you can disagree with the law, and you are free to do so. But you cannot ignore the fact that the law does exist, and it protects interns. You cannot attack interns for seeking the protections they are legally allowed under the law. I wonder whether you attack victims of spousal abuse under the theory that they knew the spouse was violent and therefore shouldn’t be protected under the law?It may surprise you, but many unpaid interns work above the expectations of their supervisors, yet are unable to break into the industry, and never had a foot in the door in the first place because no matter how good they performed, the company they worked at would never hire them. So all the intern gains is experiences that he/she cannot use anywhere else.It is disturbing, and down-right un-American to say that someone should work without being paid for their labor. That is not the principle that this country was built on. The American dream is that if you work hard, you will be rewarded, not taken advantage of or exploited.

Nick15
Nick15

Jwojciechowski 

You are my hero. You have saved me so much time that I would have had to spend schooling these ignorant ass-kissers about what the law actually is, and why it is admirable that these interns stood up for their rights. You rock jwojciechowski!!!

Jamesaleslie
Jamesaleslie

Well the courts hear this case.  They will be reading the law correctly (aka literally).  And it's not a boring question, it's a case with money involved.  Why can't this get through your head? They agreed to intern for no money. So therefore, THEY GET NO MONEY.  And they will be looking at the 'factual laws' in their official statute books and agree with me! They will not be paying any attention whatsoever to what a nobody like you wishes the law was.  As I said, being an intern kinda sucks and you are a bitch.  But that is what they signed up for! 

duyou
duyou

I want people to feel like they are entitled to be paid for their labor. You want people to feel like they have to earn the right to work for pay. One of us has some odd 16th-century notions of freedom and labor.

Hint: it's not me.

You almost captured my pov exactly. Replace PEOPLE with INTERNS.  If they wanna get paid, take a real job and forfeit probably the easiest pathway into breaking into a difficult industry.  

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

I wish my comment would get through moderation. I had a lot of good stuff in there.

1. DOL regulations say that this is not a valid unpaid internship. Since I can't post the link, apparently, without it getting flagged for moderation and never posted, you'll just have to find it yourself. Someone pasted it on this page, so it should be easy to google to see the rest.

2. You can't contract away all your rights. Some rights can be waived, others can't. Minimum wage is in the latter category. If you sign a contract that calls for $2/day in pay, that contract is unenforceable. That's not my opinion or my la-la-land bubble. That's a fact about the law.

duyou
duyou

I'm not against paying interns in the future.  Whatever.  But why should these morons receive any money when they AGREED to do it for free.  There is no case here, buddy. Yeah, I want people to be paid for their labor...when there is a contract that says the company has to.  Case closed dude.  And uh that little 16th century comment...one of us is living in a bubble in the middle of la la land.  Take a stand against real labor issues if you are so passionate about it.  This is not your case.  

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

My reading of the law isn't literal. My reading of the law is correct. There's a difference.

Jax's question wasn't asking "When do the companies become abusive under the law." That's a boring question that doesn't need opinions to come weighing in because it has a factual answer in the statute books. What if Jax had asked about "taking advantage" rather than "abuse"? Where do we draw the line there?

What don't these people deserve? To be paid for their labor, right? That's your basic contention? And you recognize that this contention is contrary to the law?

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

I want people to feel like they are entitled to be paid for their labor. You want people to feel like they have to earn the right to work for pay. One of us has some odd 16th-century notions of freedom and labor.

Hint: it's not me.

duyou
duyou

Oh and why should I get a less literal definition of abuse when you are reading the law so literally.  There are laws for what abuse is just as there are laws for what unpaid labor is so please read them both literally.  Oh and don't trivialize actual unpaid labor by comparing it to the plights of two fucking idiots.  They are giving you an example of what stupid people do when they want something they don't deserve. 

duyou
duyou

Rational people know how to keep their mouth shut when they could get fired.  Rational people don't try claiming that someone who voluntarily took a position as an intern is a slave.  There is nothing wrong with asking an intern to take out the garbage and leaving it up to him to stand out.  Both these interns and you are very naive. Please don't let other naive people read YOUR GARBAGE and make them feel like they are entitled to something before they earn it.  

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

Get a less literal definition of "abuse." Take an extreme example: slavery is inherently abusive whether the slave is hit or not. Right?

That doesn't mean that interning is necessarily abusive, but it does, I think, show that your definition of "abuse" isn't tenable.

I love the idea that the film industry is full of rational people. That's probably the funniest part of this entire comment thread.

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

"They can...because they can LEGALLY."

Nope. http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/co... Check that and try again. Or, hell, just read the source article. Note that companies don't claim that DOL guidelines don't apply to the situation -- they claim that the DOL guidelines are obsolete and should be changed. Until that happens, though, this is still illegal.

"These idiots agreed to a contract. Done."

Nope. There are plenty of rights that cannot be contracted away, and this is one of them. If you sign a contract with your employer that states that you are to be $2/hour, that contract is unenforceable. It would not be a valid defense to your later minimum-wage suit. 

"I am educating you on how shit works in this industry and in the real world."

I know precisely how it works. Where the debate comes in is over the question of how (a) the law says it works; (b) how it should, as a matter of good social policy, work. If you know how to read and are willing to put in the five minutes, we'll soon agree on (a) because you'll click that link. We're bound to disagree on (b), which is unfortunate, since you still haven't given a good reason WHY a billion-dollar company should be permitted to employ people without paying them. What economic or social good is served by letting Fox Searchlight weasel out of paying their workers?

duyou
duyou

That's a great question.  Here are my answers.  It becomes abuse when the standard of abuse for any employee paid or unpaid is breached (ie, they slap you, hit you).  Obviously, being told to make coffee and throw out the garbage is not abuse in any shape or form.  That's just part of it.

My 2nd answer to when it becomes abusive is...Aha! when it feels abusive to you.  That's when you quit.  And simultaneously, that's when you probably have to do some self-reflection and consider whether or not you are capable of surviving in this business.

In no way, I am trying to understate the frustration and difficulty you can have being an intern.  Yep, it's hard.

But in a way, the system is perfect.  It weeds out the nobodies and helps hardworking, capable, creative and RATIONAL people get their dream job later.  

duyou
duyou

They can...because they can LEGALLY.  You shouldn't compare unpaid labor to interning, because that is ridiculous.  These idiots agreed to a contract. Done. 

Secondly, idiot, you and I are not having a debate.  I am educating you on how shit works in this industry and in the real world.  

Now if you are trying to educate me on law, you're going to make an ass out of yourself when a judge laughs this ridiculous case out of the court room.

Jax
Jax

Fair enough. But at what point does it become abusive?  And at what point do companies who take advantage of this system, pay for it? 

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

"But! they don't have to! Because that's how it is when you're an intern."

You should trade your internship for some lessons in debate. That's a horrible argument. Here, you can learn from me.

Here's your argument:

1. companies could pay interns2. companies don't pay interns3. because that's how it is

Here's how an actual argument that uses both logic and evidence would go:

1. it is the law that employees must be paid2. you are an employee unless you are a legitimate intern or volunteer3. you are not a legitimate intern if your job is doing things like making coffee and taking out the trash

If you can manage something of that form that explains why billion-dollar companies should not be expected to follow the law, I'd love to hear it.

"Live off ramen until you get the money.  It's not that hard. Boo hoo!"

It is if you literally have no money. Like actually none. Forget the ramen -- who's paying the rent?

duyou
duyou

This isn't unpaid labor wise guy.  These are fools that couldn't realize that what they were getting compensated with--invaluable industry experience--was all fucking around them.  In answer to your question: they can pay minimum wage.

But! they don't have to! Because that's how it is when you're an intern.  And judging by your empathy for these overzealous idiots that decided to sue their employers, I don't think you would be a very good intern whatsoever.

Here's the problem, I'm telling you the truth and you have the ability to learn from it.  Sometimes learning experiences are a bit abstract and you have to take a step back to learn from it. 

I would not trade anything for my unpaid internship and the things that I was smart enough to learn from it. You're getting experience.  Live off ramen until you get the money.  It's not that hard. Boo hoo!

jwojciechowski
jwojciechowski

You just seriously compared jaywalking to unpaid labor.

Every single thing you've listed as something unpaid interns should do is something paid entry-level employees should do. Explain to me why a company cannot pay minimum wage to the 20-year-old who makes coffee and is trying to learn the business, make connections, get noticed.

Just, you know, for the record.

duyou
duyou

okay, you get caught jaywalking and get a ticket. That's a pretty silly law. And most of the time it is not enforced and people seem to be okay with it.  It's the same standard in the film industry, you're kind of making a non-verbal agreement that it's your job to pursue the educational aspect if you want it.  It's called being a go-getter and you get rewarded for it.  I know.  It's called being a professional.  These menial tasks don't have to be menial if you have an attitude that reflects 'eyes on the prize'.  Show that you do things quickly, volunteer to leave when the head of the company leaves.  In short, show that you really care about what goes on as much as the real players do and YOU WILL GET NOTICED.  This isn't a secret by the way.  Be the best damn unpaid intern you can be, and you'll start to see the $$ soon enough and laugh about the stupid shit you do.  Either you got it or you don't, and whether we are talking law or not, it doesn't really matter to me or anybody else that actually works in this business.  For the record, you just don't get it.  And that's okay because there are plenty of really creative, bubbly, eccentric and  hardworking people that do and I guarantee you they all agree with me.

Rob Rosegren
Rob Rosegren

Don't you think that's a bit nit-picky?  I didn't even notice the slight until you pointed it out, if that's how it was intended.

Rob Rosegren
Rob Rosegren

Good for him.  But when did they mock his work as a student film-maker?  Him being an intern on this movie was not work as a student film-maker.  They mocked his interning complaints.  There is no critique on his film-making abilities.  Missed again ass.

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