Marty Rathbun, Ex-Scientology Exec, Back from Germany: "The U.S. Media Has No Balls" (UPDATED)

RathbunCaberta.jpg
This TV image couldn't have gone down well at Gold Base
UPDATE: After the jump, Anonymous provides a poignant reminder that this is the end of an era.

The siege in South Texas is apparently finally over. Marty Rathbun has returned from his trip to Germany, and he tells me that only one member of the Squirrel Busters goon squad that was previously planted outside his house -- a former cop, and not a Scientologist -- has been seen hanging around.

"Everyone else is gone," Rathbun said this afternoon. "Some clumsy private eye cased us out at dinner yesterday. I don't know if that's the new strategy."

Regular readers know that we've been reporting on the Squirrel Busters siege since April. That's when an intimidation squad sent by Scientology arrived at Rathbun's Corpus Christi-area home with cameras strapped to their heads demanding to know if Rathbun was auditing people outside of church authority.

Until 2004 when he defected, Rathbun was the second-highest ranked executive in Scientology. In 2009, he started a blog that is highly critical of Scientology's leader, David Miscavige. In retaliation, Scientology sent the "Squirrel Busters" to harass Rathbun and make his life "a living hell."

(Scientology traditionally calls people who practice Scientology outside of the church itself "squirrels." So the goon squad was sent to "bust" Rathbun, who is still an adherent of L. Ron Hubbard's philosophies, even as he criticizes the church itself.)

As we reported the weekend before last, the Squirrel Busters squad had briefly left Rathbun's neighborhood, moving out of a house it had rented, but then returned to case his house when they learned that Rathbun was about to travel to Germany at the invitation of Ursula Caberta, a German government official who has worked to curb Scientology's influence in that country since 1992. Rathbun confronted the Squirrel Busters about his goals in Germany, and we noted that Scientology's intimidation squad was looking like it had some doubts. Now, they've apparently finally given up their daily siege of Rathbun's house after nearly 5 months.

Rathbun's visit was big news in Germany, and got him on a prime time television talk show. One thing he said on TV in particular was noted in Europe and the UK: that Rathbun personally witnessed actor Tom Cruise call Bill Clinton and ask him to influence Tony Blair about giving tax breaks to Scientology.

That news was reported here at Runnin' Scared and in the UK. But nowhere else in the U.S. press.

"I knew what happened over there wasn't going to be talked about here at all. Except for the Village Voice," Rathbun said. "It's just the way it is here. Believe me, there's a lot of stuff I told Tom [Tobin] and Joe [Childs at the St. Petersburg Times] that they never printed. Stuff with CNN, too. But the U.S. media has no balls."

I asked Rathbun if he realized his statements about Cruise and Clinton would generate such buzz (in Europe, at least). He said he couldn't have known -- everything he said in the press conference was completely unplanned. After Caberta picked up Rathbun and his wife Monique at the airport, they had little time together before the press conference last Wednesday.

When I asked Rathbun what he thought Caberta got out of his visit, he said she found it valuable in particular for the people who came forward to talk to them both.

"Ursula told me how she got into the whole Scientology thing to begin with. It had to do with some real estate scams in the 1990s that she looked into that involved the church. OSA [the Office of Special Affairs, Scientology's intelligence and covert operations wing] slammed her for it, so she got more interested. And when I got there, someone came forward who knew about those real estate scams, to give her more information. So the visit helped break loose some interesting stuff," he says. "There's this whole group of silent people -- they're not affiliated with the church, but they're scared of Ursula and the German government. But now they're willing to talk. They have some interesting cases there that should be investigated."

Also, Rathbun says, Caberta "hopes she's going to get some headway with the federal German government that has been maybe too respectful of the bullshit they're getting from the American government." (The U.S. State Department has regularly chided Germany for its efforts to curb Scientology.)

I asked Rathbun about something in the press conference I found interesting -- that when he told the tale of assaulting his friend Mike Rinder, which was in part what led him to leave Scientology -- that he appeared to get emotional. I told him Rinder said he was surprised to see Rathbun get choked up, since he's told that tale so many times already.

"I really haven't," Rathbun said. He's only told it a few times, he said, and there was something about gesturing with his hands, reenacting grabbing Rinder's lapels, that hit him hard.

"When you're doing something that you know is against your own beliefs and your own integrity, it just all came home to me at that moment," he says. "I was surprised that it hit me like that, too."

I also asked him about Markus Lanz, the German TV host, who asked him tough questions about his own role in Scientology's attack strategies.

"It's true. I had a hand in the creation of the monster and now it's come back to haunt me," he says.

Gerry Armstrong, an ex-Scientologist, has announced that he's going to be talking about Rathbun and Rinder in Berlin -- Armstrong appears to want to set the record straight about how much Rathbun, for example, was behind Armstrong's terrible treatment by Scientology's legal team. I asked Rathbun if he's tried to reconcile with Armstrong now that he's left the church.

"When you give me a straight communication that doesn't just attack me as the devil, we'll talk about that. But apparently he's incapable of that. Maybe when he gets on a grip on himself, I'll sort it all out with him," Rathbun answered.

He pointed that another man who had been through rough treatment by OSA, attorney Graham Berry, was in Hamburg with him and Caberta at all times.

"I think she heard some rumors about my incredible persuasive abilities, so she had him there to keep me in check," he says with a laugh. "He was there the whole time." Berry, unlike Armstrong, has said positive things about Rathbun's current efforts to counter his earlier role in the church.

Really, it's no surprise that Rathbun's trip to Germany has kicked up a lot of positive and negative feelings on both sides of the Atlantic. But even with such differences of opinion, it's hard to imagine that there was anything positive about Rathbun's excursion for church leader Miscavige to take away.


UPDATE: Jesus H. Christ -- Thank you Anonymous (and Sponge in particular) for this exclamation point marking the end of an era...

EndOfSBs.JPG


The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

See all of our recent Scientology coverage at the Voice

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared

Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications. Among his other stories about L. Ron Hubbard's organization:

The Larry Wollersheim Saga -- Scientology Finally Pays For Its Fraud
The Tory Bezazian (Christman) Story -- How the Internet Saved A Scientologist From Herself
The Jason Beghe Defection -- A Scientology Celebrity Goes Rogue
The Robert Cipriano Case -- A Hellacious Example of Fair Game
The Paul Haggis Ultimatum -- The 'Crash' Director Tells Scientology to Shove It
The Marc Headley Escape -- 'Tom Cruise Told Me to Talk to a Bottle'
The Aaron Saxton Accusation -- Australia turns up the heat on Scientology
The Jefferson Hawkins Stipulation -- Scientology's former PR genius comes clean
The Daniel Montalvo Double-Cross -- Scientology lures a young defector into a trap
A Church Myth Debunked -- Scientology and Proposition 8
Daniel Montalvo Strikes Back -- Scientology Hit with Stunning Child-Labor Lawsuits
When Scientologists Attack -- The Marty Rathbun Intimidation
A Scientologist Excommunicated -- The Michael Fairman SP Declaration
The Richard Leiby Operation -- Investigating a reporter's divorce to shut him up
The Hugh Urban Investigation -- An academic takes a harsh look at Scientology's past
Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh -- A precedent for a Scientology-Branch Davidian link
Janet Reitman's Inside Scientology -- A masterful telling of Scientology's history
The Western Spy Network Revealed? -- Marty Rathbun ups the ante on David Miscavige
Scientology's Enemies List -- Are You On It?
Inside Inside Scientology -- An interview with author Janet Reitman
Scientology and the Nation of Islam -- Holy Doctrinal Mashup, Batman!
Scientologists -- How Many of Them Are There, Anyway?
Roger Weller's Wild Ride -- Scientology When it was Hip
The Marc Headley Infiltration -- A Scientology Spying Operation Revealed
Placido Domingo Jr: Scientology's Retaliation is "Scary and Pathetic"
An Interview with Nancy Many, Former Scientology Spy
The Paulien Lombard Confession -- A Scientology Spy Comes Clean
The Deputy Benjamin Ring Hard Sell -- Scientology wants your 401K
The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology -- the whole series!
The Squirrel Busters Busted -- Unmasking the Scientology PI in Charge
Tommy Davis, Scientology spokesman, secretly recorded discussing 'disconnection'
Scientology internal document says its Office of Special Affairs will 'handle' the Village Voice


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124 comments
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FerrisK
FerrisK

Marty has lot to apologize and far to0 many to list -  not only to Armstrong, but to the other scientologist, ex scientologist, general public and the media.

FACT: Marty was so ruthless, he personally wanted people destroyed with ultimate passion, now he is saying anything for self preservation.

One thing to mention, when Rathbun turned Rinder into the punching bag, he said it all all along he (Rathbun) was a violent person, they new lies is he has been ordered..LOL

I just remembered a saying from Truman: Richard Nixon is a no good, lying bastard. He can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, and if he ever caught himself telling the truth, he'd lie just to keep his hand in.

Raymond Hill
Raymond Hill

Marty Rathbun: ""When you give me a straight communication that doesn't just attack me as the devil, we'll talk about that."

How does Marty Rathbun communicate himself with David Miscavige? Surely he doesn't attack Miscavige as "the devil"... right?

My understanding is that from Gerry Armstrong's point of view, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, David Miscavige acted toward him just all the same. But it hurts them to think they would have to admit to even part of it.

I believe their sensitivity on how Gerry Armstrong addresses them to be completely feigned, as it's just yet another way to avoid confronting inconvenient issues regarding their past. "Not caring" under the guise of "nobody tell me what to do" is just yet again another easy way out of dealing with their past. But nothing surprising, the opposite would have been surprising.

From what I see, their "sorry I did that to you" are reserved only for those who make them feel good about themselves *in the first place*. It's an exchange thing, which involves others to be nicey nicey to them first. I do believe that to be genuine, regrets of past wrongdoings toward others can not be conditional to who was the target of wrongdoings.

meow
meow

Grownups in the real world, generally speaking, will apologize if they feel or recognize they've done something wrong.  It's not and he needs to recognize that.

If and when I do something wrong, yeah it may take me time to realize it but eventually I apologize.  Marty's had time to think about it.  His excuse about how Gerry talks about him is just that, a poor excuse.  If you did something wrong and recognize that as such, why wait?  Waiting for people to be nice isn't realistic.  Why should Gerry extend Marty any courtesy at all?  He doesn't owe him shit.

BTW, bitching at Dennis doesn't make Scientology any less of a cult and quite frankly it makes a certain poster look like a butthurt jackass.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Hey Tony—wanna post that photo of a Squirrel's butt that I sent ya?

Sorry if I'm being silly, I've been fully indoctrinated by Jay Ward.

"Hey Rocky—Watch me pull a Thetan out of my ass!"

"But that trick never works."

"This time for sure!"

[Bullwinkle plugs in a e-meter, power bridge in the box explodes, leaving incredible stink.]

"Looks like the problem's the Bridge Rectifier, Rocky"

"Well, that explains the smell."

AquaClara
AquaClara

Pegging ones self as having been the number two guy in a cult is akin to announcing that if things had gotten to the point where the grape Flavor-Aid was being passed around, you'd have been the first in line. Nobody ever remembers who that person was.It must have been doubly disappointing for Rathbun to have returned from Hamburg failing to have "handled" anything, only to find that even his beloved squirrel busters had deserted him. Even though Marty's fifteen minutes have run their course, he's going to be ok, like any other freezoner with his books and his e-meter to keep him company. Not so much for scientology however.As the cult continues on it's path towards extinction, I do hope that we'll get to hear from Marty from time to time. That he'll share his postulates. Let us know how he thinks things should have been. Could have been. Would have been if it weren't for that meddling Miscavige kid.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

I guess Marty is complaining about the media not paying attention to his assessments of what is important to report because, as a scientologist, he's supposed to not trust the media to do a good job in the first place. They are to be treated as enemies according to Scientology policies. Perhaps he needs to figure out where he stands on all that but if he loves Scientology and wants to keep it working, he's got to keep thinking he knows all about the media and its evil intentions and attack it, not work along with it.

As far as the Gerry Armstrong comment, though many of us exs are used to Marty's flippant and hostile attitude to exs who suffered under his watch ( and anyone who agrees with them), , it's nice to see Tony try to get a straight answer out of him. Fact is, the only people he harmed in the past that he will talk to are those who will do so on his terms and on his territory. I think he's afraid that if he opens the door to communicating, the domino effect might occur. Thing is, that would not be a bad thing. We can't all be right all of the time,and Marty is no exception to that rule, as well as when it comes to needing to be able to be free from the past by facing it.

The comment about Graham Berry shows just how out of it Marty is. Graham wrote and posted what was happening and why he was there. Graham is a man of dignity and good intentions and Marty missed an opportunity to find that out. Prejudice really blinds.

When I think of Marty and his life within the 'independent bubble', I am reminded of story called The Emperor's New Clothes. As long as Marty can ignore the communication outside of it, he can't hear the truth that he is indeed not what his illusions and those of others in the bubble make him out to be.

Warrior
Warrior

Back in November of 2009 I forwarded a post made to a.r.s. by a critic so Marty could see what was being said about him on that forum. It was a copy and paste job with no comment from me other than to say, "FYI, this is what's being said about you."Marty's flippant reply was, "Man, I'm really caved. Well done."I followed up with an email asking him why he thought my post was meant to "cave him in." In true Marty "Not-Is" Rathbun style he never answered.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Wow!  To you, of all people. I never use or think about the tech anymore but for some reason when Marty makes comments like that and above, i just feel like feel like talking to him in words he can understand, saying things like:

"So, Marty, when did help become betrayal?", and " That was kind of  A=A, Marty" and "Wow, that's quite a generality you've responded with". and " A " hater"? I'm not a hater. Just because I have an oninion does not make me a hater" and of course this " You are very critical of that person, You need to write up your overts and withholds"...so on.  LOL

If there is any evidence that there isn't an MutherF'n Clear, I think Marty might be it.

Wholigan
Wholigan

   Excellent post Mary! Marty is still in, he just can't see it.

nexusthe
nexusthe

re Guest1965 and alike:... how to "handle" discussions that are critical about Scientology (Hubbard's or Miscavige's):

1 steer the discussion away from the initial topic (favorite: bring inpsychiatry)

2 get the "discussioners" to distrust or even attack each other

3 feed the discussion with spam or stuff-similar-to-spam

4 bring the other posters to use foul language, too

All too often one or the other of these strategies will succeed. Still all too often. It's human, I suppose *sigh*.

nexibello

P.S.: About 30minutes ago, I posted a similar comment to the Jason Beghe article. Now, after reading the comments here, I thought I could have put it here in the first place just as well ....

ex int base staff
ex int base staff

Thanks Dennis. I got you there. Let me tell you something that is not widely known. There was great celebration in OSA legal when Gerry handed OSA legal Bob Minton's head on a silver platter by taking Bob's money and help. Gerry wanted Bob to pay for more legal defense to get Gerry out of that short 27 day stay in a Marin jail. Gerry didn't care if he exposed Bob to a giant lawsuit or tore apart Bob's family or sanity. It was all selfish on Gerry's part. Gerry has made a career out of making a dogs breakfast out of everything he touches. Someone in OSA legal told me that Gerry and his attorney were stupid to sign a one way gag agreement with the church. The right way to do it is to sign a mutual gag order where neither side can talk. OSA legal still laughs because it has Gerry right where it wants him. This has nothing to do with Marty or anyone else. It is all about the specific type of legal agreement Gerry signed. The Marin court will never let Gerry out of the bad agreement he signed. Gerry has been sour grapes about his own mistake. Gerry trying to make Marty do A-E is a joke.The Independents don't need Gerry for spit. Gerry acts like the Independents can only exist if Gerry grants them beingness. Gerry makes "his" condition for granting the Independents beingness a get out of jail free card from Marty. What a joke! All Gerry has to do is serve a few weeks in the hoosegow and then he can move back to Marin with the rest of his old hippie friends. The worse Gerry is looking at in county jail is cleaning trash on some road and eating baloney sandwiches.

CarolineLetkeman
CarolineLetkeman

The Scientologists' attacks onGerry, both Indies and Innies, are disgusting. Thanks to the good wogs whorecognize the truth and stand by him. The idea that he set up Bob Minton,ruined him, and tore apart his family and sanity is sick. Bob recognized thatScientology's injunction against Gerry were unconscionable and unlawful, andhad the courage to do something about it. Bob loaned Gerry money because he isvery relevant to unraveling the IRS tax exemption to the cult. So in reality,Scientology sued Bob for millions for giving Gerry a computer probably worth afew hundred dollars. What evil! And what evil for the Scientologists, bothIndies and Innies, to justify their continued attacks on Gerry.

Before he headed to Germany, Gerry wrote an article in response to Rathbun andhis supporters' black PR that Gerry "sold out," which Rathbun, et al.use to justify not helping Gerry to correct the ongoing injustices that Rathbunhelped perpetrate, and justify their continuing attacks on Gerry as is seenhere by Indie Scientologist "ex int base staff."

http://www.gerryarmstrong.ca/a...

Thomas Gandow
Thomas Gandow

This means that You celebrated with OSA. So we know who You are.It was OSA, which harrassed Bob and his family as they did wirh Gerry.

And I know from my friend Bob, that he gave the computer to Gerry because he liked him and wanted to work in concert with him.

All other things You write show to everybody who knows the truth by documentation in the internet, that You are not only old OSA, but also that You tell 25 years after the "loyalist scam" the old OSA- Black PR against Gerry just to protect the new Indie-scam.

Caroline Letkeman
Caroline Letkeman

The Scientologists'attacks on Gerry, both Indies and Innies, are disgusting. Thanks to the goodwogs who recognize the truth and stand by him. The idea that he set up BobMinton, ruined him, and tore apart his family and sanity is sick. Bobrecognized that Scientology's injunction against Gerry were unconscionable andunlawful, and had the courage to do something about it. Bob loaned Gerry moneybecause he is very relevant to unraveling the IRS tax exemption to the cult. Soin reality, Scientology sued Bob for millions for giving Gerry a computerprobably worth a few hundred dollars. What evil! And what evil for theScientologists, both Indies and Innies, to justify their continued attacks onGerry.

Before he headed to Germany, Gerry wrote an article in response to Rathbun andhis supporters' black PR that Gerry "sold out," which Rathbun, et al.use to justify not helping Gerry to correct the ongoing injustices that Rathbunhelped perpetrate, and justify their continuing attacks on Gerry as is seenhere by Indie Scientologist "ex int base staff."http://www.gerryarmstrong.ca/a...

candace6
candace6

You like typing the name "Gerry", don't you?

And FYI, I don't think OSA is laughing about much these days, Gerry or otherwise.

SFF
SFF

So, Gerry was under legal assault by the CoS and made some bad decisions in response, which makes it all his fault. Is that what you are saying? Did he pull it in, too?

Theoracle
Theoracle

Those baloney sandwiches are pretty bad. I think they use expired meat.

Theoracle
Theoracle

At least, the sandwiches are very smelly. You have to not breath through your nose to eat one.

Old Timer
Old Timer

LOL! Go ahead and remain a Scieno. Be happy.

Old Timer
Old Timer

Non sequitur. Plus, you are wrong in your evaluation that I am "A=Aing you with some label". I am responding to you as an individual, albeit one who is incapable of answering questions.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

You should note that bits and pieces of your old Tech are absorbed into the culture and reflected back at you. It's the old threefold law, the Magickal equivalent of Newton's laws. What one wills into the world through magical operations returns threefold [kinda like Moore's Law and Cybertech]. The language of the internet, offspring of Comic Book Guys and Nurds everywhere, has a natural tendency to skew nasty. Fair Game™ is the latest craze in venting, makes old forms of venting, like church confession, seem old hat. Watch natural born trolls take up the Fair Game™ meme and get medieval on your ass.

As Crowley and his operations are a major influence over the core teachings of Scientology, the threefold law applies, like it or not.

You will naturally attract entheta. If you want to rise above, just deal with the here and now, let the criticism roll off your back like water off a duck's yas yas yas. Anybody who's done any auditing can tell you that the world consists of a lot of very weird people. Folks who are "Straight" are the deviants.

The Taoists have it right, we are not doing, willing, making this world. The world makes itself and it wills us. We need to be watchful and aware in this world, looking for big waves and low tides. We can easily be carried into places we never intended to be.

Theoracle
Theoracle

If you don't like Scientologists in general as an entire culture that is your problem. Not mine. And before I was Scientologist I was a lot of other things, and I still am those things. I am not only a Scientologist, I am many things.  And I live in a country where I have rights to pursue freedom and happiness. So I am not apologizing to you for any part of my existence.  I don't have to because I have not done you any disservice.  It is you hazing and degrading me here and working to make it look like I have to apologize to you for something. No. I don't owe you any explanation or apology or an excuse. For what?  You are tripping. That is on you. Get as noisy and abusive as you want. You were that way before I ever posted here and you will continue on that way with or without me.

Theoracle
Theoracle

You are A=Aing me with some label.  But I am a Scientologist and I have every right to be. It is not illegal and my free choice. I do not have to apologize to you about it. It's my right.

Old Timer
Old Timer

For pointing out that you talk to yourself I am suppressing you? Wow. If this occurred in the Sea Org you'd probably assign me to the RPF for having critical thoughts and "suppressing" you.

For someone who is a Scieno, you sure haven't demonstrated that you are capable of correctly responding with your postings. When you reply to *yourself* with statements like the above ("I mean, what do you do, cruise the net and dergrade and suppress and verbally abuse just because you can?") you really look looney tunes. Hence I pointed out that you show what a brain on Scientology looks like.

Now go ahead and be a good little Scieno and complain some more.

You _are_ a "homo novis", right? 

Theoracle
Theoracle

You know, there are plenty of people that would probably like to join in on this blog and have some reasonable exchange without getting bashed and abused.  When you just go blindly hazing and bashing people, they can't be bothered or lose interest in the blog.  In this way you actually drive people away from Tony's blog.  If you haven't gained any abilities in Scientology,  you haven't gained the ability to be considerate and fair either.  These are simple abilities people usually gain just by growing up or being citizens.  If you haven't made it in elementary social intercourse with skills to get along with others or at least stop abusing others, why don't focus on your beginning failures with cultures in general?

zippy
zippy

Theoracle  talks to him self and still no one listens

Old Timer
Old Timer

You're talking to yourself again, Theoracle.

This is a brain on Scientology, folks.

Old Timer
Old Timer

Theoracle frequently responds to herself. It's her demonstration of the worthlessness of Scieno communication "tech". LOL.

Theoracle
Theoracle

I mean, what do you do, cruise the net and dergrade and suppress and verbally abuse just because you can?  Yes, that is what some of you are up to.  You are in suppress and sadism mode. Just because you can be. If you think I see that as my handicap you are mistaken. Really pathetic what some beings will decide to do with their freedoms and tools.  At least you have found out who you really are right?

Theoracle
Theoracle

You are making me matter to you. That was not my intention.

Theoracle
Theoracle

I wasn't talking to you, so why would it matter?

zippy
zippy

Theoracle you've got nothing to say and you're saying it too loudly

MarkStark
MarkStark

It's good some interesting things were accomplished by Marty's visit.

I thought it was ballsy of Tobin and Childs to post that tape of Tommy Davis going nutty, including mention of Marty's eons as a "whole track" prison warden. What was Tommy on the whole track? Prison biaaatch?

Maybe Marty should unlock Gerry at this point, for his crimes of discovering the truth about the lies of LRH. I don't think it is Gerry's move at all, to do anything other than what he is doing and has done in the past, which is talking about what was done to him, for knowing the truth.

A Walter Scott quote is in order to describe Hubbard's unfolding legacy:

Oh! what a tangled web we weaveWhen first we practise to deceive!

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

And again the Inception of Scientology, the concept that got the ball rolling was the purposeful creation of a system designed to extract the greatest amount of money from 'marks' with minimum effort or government interference.

The cult is built on a foundation of Greed, Sloth and Deception. Given time and enough awareness of the nature of the beast—there's only one place a organization like Scientology can go:

http://www.learntarot.com/bigj...

ADifferentGuest
ADifferentGuest

 My, it's a bit explosive in here.  I keep wishing all concerned would just reserve a boxing ring, rent some gloves, leave the tech at the spitoon, and have at it.  Hell,  offer ringside seats, sell tickets; you might just have to get a bigger venue!  I'd even be so bold as to suggest the proceeds go to Chuck Beatty's efforts helping Ex-Sea org members get reestablished. Jeff could do the promo and marketing, and let's see Call it  "Boxing for Blowees"    Live video feed  and I smell major hit.  I donate my Idea cut to the cause. 

danlocke
danlocke

That's good. Edit your post and take out the "I donate my idea cut..." as this would be major. 

Roggy McGee
Roggy McGee

Is Marty generally perceived as being self-motivated or altruistically motivated?

When I first started reading about his blowing from the CO$, I thought that Marty was a genuine guy who got burned by DM and was interested in helping others learn from his experience.  After reading Reitman's Inside Scientology, I've reversed my initial assessment.  Everything was cool for Marty when he was DM's right hand man, but then something changed which precipitated his escape. 

I'm not convinced by Marty's assertion that DM is an evil overlord who has misapplied legitimate tech, but an abusive prick who got to be that way in part because he is mimicking LRH and following his tech precisely.  The problem isn't necessarily DM, but LRH, and by Marty continuing to blindly follow the dictates of LRH, he comes across more as an Avignon Pope than a true apostate.

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Rog,

Marty's snapping point was when he was ordered to beat up his best friend.  That's when his conscience finally kicked in.  After years of tormenting staff, dissidents and journalists.  You can see the quote above.

You said:  "I'm not convinced by Marty's assertion that DM is an evil overlord who has misapplied legitimate tech, but an abusive prick who got to be that way in part because he is mimicking LRH and following his tech precisely."

Very astute observation.  Everyone in the organization becomes infected with Elrong's mindset.  The closer they were to him, the more twisted the influence.

D

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

What we have here is a money-making organization disguised as a 'religion' founded by a college reject, an "F' physics student, a congenital liar, a swindler and a somewhat skilled hypnotist who knew a tiny bit of electronics and a little bit of ritual and stage magic. That's Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, nobody's sweetheart.

What did you expect, Hatha Yoga? Hildegard von Bingen? Henny Youngman?

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

No I dont change my approach to people who use classic scieno Dead Agenting to try to sway an argument.  Bringing up my children or ex wife shows that you are indeed a POS.  Unless the blog owner objects, I will continue to treat you with contempt.  Count on it.

Guest1965
Guest1965

"you are indeed a POS ... I will continue to treat you with contempt."

Yes, please do charm us with your "recovered" behavior.

Guest
Guest

Dear Dennis: from your website:

DesiderataAs far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.  Speak your truth quietly & clearly; and listen to others, even the dull & ignorant; they too have their story. ...Be cheerful.  Strive to be happy. I was happy to what you've created.  Your wish to help those once captured by a cult.  That you've created a happy life for yourself.  Have a lovely wife.Whether you want to continue to berate me, to consider me an OSA member is really up to you.  What I believe you are saying, if I'm hearing you correctly, is that Marty was much worse than most of us from way back then.  And you will therefore continue to comment about him and others.What I notice is that you, me and many others are OBVIOUSLY still connected to this cult because ... we frequent these message boards.There are many others who do not.  They don't have PTSD or whatever you wish to call it.  They came, they stayed, they left and didn't look back.We seem to be somewhat stuck.  Or at least it looks that way to me.  Although we both have different lives, different wives, different passions -- we are still hooked.Contempt is a painful emotion to experience.  There is very little room in a mind that is contemptful for cheerfulness. I'm sorry I commented.  This will be my last.

dennis l erlich
dennis l erlich

Sure Guest,

I try to live up to the highest standards when dealing with others and often fall short of perfect.  But in the cases of people who have spent decades trying to ruin my life, my family, my career and my sanity, if they, as Marty is unrepentant about the things he did to the trail-blazers of this reform movement, he is not fit for any but the harshest treatment from those whose lives he tried to, and in many case did ruin. 

As far as my connection to the issues of abuse of staff and public, revealing the true sekret skriptures and actual practices, yes I am still connected in the sense that the crusade I started in the early 80s is still going on and will continue to. 

I appreciate thoughtful comments and taking the time to actually call me on something on my website.  But keep in mind, like Bob, I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to.  :)

Slack to all!Dennis

F_Randy_Hullabaloo
F_Randy_Hullabaloo

More people should just try to become the person their dogs think they are.

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