Scientology Internal Documents Leaked in SF? We Ask the Experts

Categories: Scientology

ScienoStats.jpg
We've been watching a developing story in San Francisco, where Lauren Smiley at our sister paper, SF Weekly, has been covering an interesting defection from the Church of Scientology's "org" there.

Chanology SF, the very active Anonymous chapter in that city, was celebrating the apparent fact that a Scientology worker at the SF org who called him or herself "ethicstrouble" had been convinced by their protests to make contact with them and to begin feeding information about what was happening at the church organization. Jeff Quiros, the president of the SF church, told Smiley that the e-mails from "ethicstrouble" were a hoax.

But now Smiley has posted documents that "ethicstrouble" claims to have rescued from the org's trash, which spell out in detail the activity at the church, and show a steady decline. Quiros tells Smiley that these documents are also not genuine, but we decided to show them to our own experts for their analysis...

We showed the documents to Jefferson Hawkins, who not only ran Scientology's major public relations pushes in the past, but also oversaw very similar documents that showed him how much activity was happening in Scientology across the country. Here's what he had to say after looking at what Smiley posted:

Tony, the graphs are credible -- all of the names of statistics and the acronyms used are correct. The statistic numbers are in the range that would be credible, and the numbers are consistent from one graph to the next. The Church's claim that these are falsified is not credible to me -- it would take a very knowledgeable insider many hours to even attempt such a fabrication and get all of the names, acronyms and statistic relationships correct. What they show is a relatively small organization that is struggling to get by, with few staff, few public and little income.

I also showed them to Mike Rinder, who before he left in 2007 was Scientology's chief spokesman and oversaw the Office of Special Affairs, which handled public relations:

Those graphs look authentic. Anyone who has seen church stat graphs knows the format and the typestyle and the way the scaling is done (by a computer program so it doesn't go off the top or the bottom).

Of course, there is always the chance that they are forged -- but to what end? Who would bother forging these? Jeff Quiros has to say they are forged because they show such a dismal picture of the wondrous Miscavige "Ideal Org" -- they make no auditors, no Clears, no Solo Course comps, they pay the staff $100/week (try living on that in SF!) and generally all their stats are downtrending.

They simply confirm what everyone already knows, but Miscavige and his minions won't admit. Scientology is NOT "expanding like never before and 5 times greater in the last 6 months than in all 50 years before that.... blah blah blah."

If someone wanted to do an elaborate forgery, surely they would invest their time in something with wider implications than this.

I bet there is a FRANTIC search ongoing in the SF Org to try and find out who is leaking this stuff. Jeff Quiros is in deep shit right about now. And there has probably been an order out to every org to shred copies of all graphs in case more of them escape.
Funny, it used to be that graphs were displayed for the public to see in orgs...

Smiley continues to try to authenticate "ethicstrouble"'s status. We'll let you know what she finds out.



The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology] | [Commenters of the Week]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]
[Aussie former rugby pro Chris Guider calls David Miscavige "toxic" and "violent"]
[Stephen Cox, UK church newbie, pledges 20K pounds] | [Biggi Reichert: A German Lisa McPherson?]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]


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94 comments
Scientia
Scientia

Miles, you lovable rogue, let's not get our knickers in a twist. I am not "clinging" onto anything. When all is said and done, Hubbard's résumé has no bearing on why I am a Scientologist. I study and apply what I find both interesting and useful. For me, of what I like and use, Scientology is an effective system of personal improvement and spiritual self-realisation. I don't care what it was or wasn't based on. I only care if it interests me and brings improvement upon application. Peace.

sketto
sketto

Dear Slappy,

Tick tock tick tock tick tock...

Sincerely,

Karma Police

Old OT7
Old OT7

Na na nana, na na nana, hey hey hey, goodbye!

Scientia
Scientia

Whilst I didn't write that post specifically for you, Miles, if you are under the impression that I cannot separate a man from his work then you are mistaken. If that makes me a nutjob in your eyes, so be it.

F_Randy_Hullabaloo
F_Randy_Hullabaloo

If our little hippy mission in New York had turned in Statistics like that we'd have been boiled in oil.  Thanks for the this story. I'd not been paying enough attention to the magnificent job the SF Anonymous Channers are doing.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Yes, Jeff and Mike are correct ( except  as someone posted earlier,  Rinder's comment about these being put out on public display - that just simply could not be - Rinder probably would not know that because he had not spent any time in recent years at the local level). It would take a tremendous amount of work and understanding to create these graphs.

Thank you Ms. Smiley :)  Thank you Anonymous! Thank you, ethicstrouble!!

Andrew Organ/Stat
Andrew Organ/Stat

"Funny, it used to be that graphs were displayed for the public to see in orgs..." Check.

Every staff member in SF "Ideal Org" is sec-checked and is paranoid. Check.

"Ethicstrouble" is chuckling, thinking of pleasure moments, causing his needle to float. Check.(Or at least, I hope so).

Everyone wins, while truth unravels. Check.

greebly
greebly

Keep signing the Petition!Does not matter is little happens but atleast it will be read by.....

Bob Peterson
Bob Peterson

I am sure that by now OSA has figured it out.  There is more than one person involved in this this caper.  There are some really serious sec checks going on in places other than SF I'll  wager.   In fact I will double down and say that  Gold Int. is in a lockdown mode right now. LOL, this could be big depending on how long those guys can fool the cans and/or lose their nerve. 

Jgg
Jgg

  Remember the scene from Wizard of Oz when Dorothy and her friends spot a man behind the curtain?  And the "Wizard" yells "ignore that man!"?  That is what these miserable but accurate stats remind me of.

bulldogSP
bulldogSP

I don't know what happen to the rest of my post? lol

Anyway, just wanted to tell Tony he's doing a fine job at making this site exciting. God knows whats going to happen next? I'M HOOKED!

ALSO, GREAT JOB ANONYMOUS!

bulldogSP
bulldogSP

Or maybe ET is staying so he/she can gather more data. A lot of scientologist's are trained to spy. Keep the game going, so to speak.

Jeff Quiros
Jeff Quiros

I'm always looking for that awesome twist.Perhaps Jeff Quiros is "ethicstrouble"...wouldn't THAT be a hoot.

MarkStark
MarkStark

I hope this is a trend, and people from Orgs all over start leaking the real stats. I suspect that in many places, the correlation between the growth of high speed internet use coincides with the downturn of the cult.

Bob Peterson
Bob Peterson

I believe the graphs are real; so is the misdirection as to their source.

Liz
Liz

If I recall correctly the SF Org is one of the ideal orgs. These stats are crashing and if only we had stats from say 10 years ago to compare as I believe these current ones are in a whole new LOW range. NOW THAT's PLANETARY CLEARING ... LOL

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

The prime underlying falsehood that gives the lie to "ethicstrouble's" claims is that he or she, allegedly, cannot leave staff just now.

Huh? That's total fiction. 

People leave staff upon completing a 2-1/2 or 5-year contract, or just at will. The doors aren't locked. "Hey, I'm going out for chocolate. Back in ten!"  And then don't come back. Just sneak out the back, Jack.

Or perhaps--contrary to the Village Voice repetitious hate-line--"ethicstrouble" is earning good money on staff at the San Francisco org, and cannot find other work as compensatory for his/her skill-set. 

And yet--if and only if Ortega were a reporter instead of a cult-leader--he'd have explored that hole in this story long ago. 

He would have honestly exposed that weak spot to the same yards of public scrutiny he devotes to any perceived imperfection in Scientology. 

Why not dig into that completely illogical claim and explore it?

sizzle8
sizzle8

At the org where I was on lines, the stat graphs were posted on a wall outside of the execs' offices. Any public could see them. They were updated on Thursdays after the stats cable was sent. This was in the 70's and 80's.

Ron
Ron

It reminds me of the "I'm melting! I'm melting!" scene. Flinging a bucket of truth on Scientology has the same effect.

MissCabbage
MissCabbage

I hope they do not get out the cans.

Xenu
Xenu

Here's a fun twist for you.  The graphs say that Jerry Racheff was Executive Director of SF Day in spring of 2011.  That's the same guy who was arrested outside SFO during the Sea Arrrrgh protest of 2009, for an act of battery on Tommy Gorman.  So that guy is now the ED?

Jgg
Jgg

  Wouldn't surprise me--remember when Tory Magoo was such a big defender of Scientology?

NCSP
NCSP

This is actually the second set of graphs that's been leaked this year -- there was another from Melbourne (iirc) that showed numbers just as dismal.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

You just KeepOnLosing, OK? At the rate things are going, CO$ won't have to pay you a red cent because CO$ will be flat broke and your lame ass will be out in the street.

Andrew Organ/Stat
Andrew Organ/Stat

Wow. It's that simple, eh? Last time I left staff (2008), they put me on the meter on the exact day my contract was expired, told me they know everything about my "inappropriate Internet chats" with a female staff member (my wife and I were separating at that time, btw, we are still together), never mind it happened a year + prior (and they knew it, but waited to bring it up at the right time). A sexual innuendo/s, true or not, was presented/used against me that day. It was also added, that it can all go away, IF I resign my contract. How peculiar. Apparently, they needed a Class V Auditor, Russian accent or not.  Well, I didn't resign anyway, despite of all the glorious BS above. I got a Comm-Ev (a luxury these days), which was just as humiliating, not just for me, but for its members as well. Comm-Ev is like a Court Hearing, but a fake one. Obviously, it's more sane and ethical (sarcasm here). That whole thing was sad and lame at the same time. This story is a bit longer and a lot more funny, I might share it later. This is enough though to illustrate the point of how "easy" it is to leave staff.

Heather Grace
Heather Grace

Uh, oh. Hole in your own logic spotted!

Walking out of the org "at will" and just not coming back is one very quick way to get any family who are in, especially if they are in the Sea Org!, coerced into disconnecting from you. You know that. Where's your integrity?

Anon A
Anon A

KeepOnLying said: "The doors aren't locked. "Hey, I'm going out for chocolate. Back in ten!"  And then don't come back. Just sneak out the back, Jack."

How very disingenuous of you to pretend that there are no such things as "freeloader's debt", getting "routed to Ethics", PC folder blackmail and family disconnection hanging over the heads of disillusioned Scientologist staffers.  Sure, any sane person (ie: non-Scientologist) would just get the hell out of such an oppressive environment within the SF Org, but that sane person hasn't undergone hundreds of hours of Hubbard-sized indoctrination and brainwashing.

Scientia
Scientia

Do you have a family? Imagine if they were told they had to disconnect from you for daring to put some truth into the world. Imagine if your husband or wife, your mother, father, brother, sister, your children even, were fooled into believing that any hope of spiritual salvation would be denied unless they cut you out of their life with immediate effect. Imagine if they were told that refusal to obey would result in their own expulsion, that their own friends and relatives would then in turn be pressured to disconnect from them.

This is the system you support. Bravo.

"How would you like to be pulled and hauled and ordered about and restrained from doing whatever you wanted to do? You’d resent it."

"You're well and you enjoy life when you aren’t owned. ..You couldn't enjoy life if you were shepherded and owned. You'd revolt. And if your revolt was quenched, you turn into a subversive."

"A man is as sane and safe as he is self-determined."

LRH, from Child Dianetics, 1951.

LoyalOfficer
LoyalOfficer

They probably fear being disconnected and Fair Gamed right now. Don't you think the problem is an SP, such as David Miscavige driving the stats to go straight down? You should blow the cult like this person plans to do. As long as the criminal SP is the leader then stats will always be down. When is Jeff going to the RFP?

Jefferson Hawkins
Jefferson Hawkins

"Prime underlying falsehood"? Do you even know what "underlying" means? For someone who has studied Hubbard's "evaluation" tech you seem unable to think logically.

The prime underlying falsehood is the Church's claim of "unprecedented expansion" - not borne out by any actual numbers or concrete evidence. Yes, we've seen the big buildings - news flash - they are empty.

scifibandit
scifibandit

Or ethics trouble can't leave because he/she is worried about losing family or friend connections, or getting sec checked, or being suspected for leaking documents, spied on, or worried about not being able to leak any more documents that he/she intends to leak in the future. Heck, maybe all the staff now are being followed, and he/she has to be very careful lest he/she gets found out and inundated with lawsuits, etc. I think ethics trouble's claim that he/she can't leave at the moment is valid and logical for his/her own, non-disclosed reasons.

Jgg
Jgg

  Hey, illogical clam, $50 a week is not "earning good money", especially not in America's most expensive city.

bulldogSP
bulldogSP

Oh, they're probably canning people to death right now. If ET is really a mole? I hope he/she can beat the can's and is real careful.

If your reading this ethicstrouble, I am rooting for you...Stay Safe!

MissCabbage
MissCabbage

... and Mike Rinder?  Marty Rathbun? Well, the Church

Xenu
Xenu

I think the ones you're remembering were from Sydney Day, where, to the amusement of all, they were 3.5 years behind on their bills.

Arielle
Arielle

Yes, I remember the graphs from Melbourne were posted on ESMB sometime in April/May. They looked exactly the same as the current ones.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

Again, it mentally conforts you and yours to believe a lie.

I'm not in any way a CofS employee.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

Guess you shouldn't have been verbally "cheating on" your wife fia the Internet. Those darned overta snd secrets will come back to bite a guy in the butt.

Since you hint you were a Class V auditor, perhaps you've studied the ralationship between your current feelings of alienation from Scientology and its mustering-out procedures, your "wild animal reacion"--and your own half-discovered half-divulged secrets. Remember that taped lecture?

There's another useful reference: "Clean hands make a happy life." 

Which explains why all you guys are so thoroughly and perennially cranky.

I'd sure get tired of feeling like that. Must be stressful.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

Again, that has never been the case for anyone I know who has left the SO--no matter his or her dumb-assed way of leaving it.

Not once in...maybe five examples I know of.

Having to repay a good portion of their assigned freeloader debts, yes.

All the other crap, no.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

There assuredly IS such a thing as a "freeloader's debt."  It's common knowledge, written into policy, and commonly forgiven by at least half its original amount. People on staff get free auditing--as long as they live up to their contract. If they blow, they haven't fulfilled their part of the contract, and paying that debt (or whatever fraction of it they have to pay) squares things up with the org.

There assuredly IS NOT any such thing as auditing folder blackmail. I think that is the largest lie you lot consistently tell. The Church has worked assiduously to keep folders out of court, out of the hands of law enforcement, and totally private.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

Apparently, you've never heard that all religious orders have rules and regs you don't get to revamp each Tuesday you feel like going on holiday.

You think the Sea Org is tough duty?  Be glad you didn't join some church or order that sent you to Africa to get macheted, to Asia to get imprisoned, or to the Middle East to get beheaded.

And, again, I've known several people who left the SO--in various ways--and not one of their families have been asked to disconnect from them.

That whole set of allegations is just pure hate-speech on your part or--FAR MORE LIKELY--the relaters of those tales you lap up are not divulging all the crap and nastiness they did to harm others. That's the usual scenario.

You're believing every word from every poor victim in every articleevery month--without once having an ounce of interest in asking them what THEY did to be at least partially responsible for how people allegedly treated them. (The bitchiest people about Scientology I ever met had earlier made off with the payroll one week.)

You have become the professional victims' dupe, and you're doing their integrity no favors by letting them continue their deception.

Guest
Guest

They are empty - and they are starting to default.

The inevitable consequence of the church policy of financially destroying it's adherents.  The New Orgs have fewer non-bankrupt followers. 

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

Piffle.

I know a guy who, in a really stupid way, blew SO about six years ago.

Still stayed in touch with his Scn wife, kid, and me. Nobody gave a crap.

He was taking responsible steps to get his contract paid back for lots of auditing received.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

Then "ethicstrouble" can publish copies of his/her paycheck to settle all this.

SFF
SFF

To be fair, you'd have trouble finding someone willing to pay you more than that for Scientology services.

Clarkle
Clarkle

I would hope not, because your post certainly do nothing for the groups image.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

"Do you even listen to yourself?'

Exactly! Scientologists have no idea how weird their defenses of the cult sound to the ears of us Wogs.

hgc
hgc

Question for you:

How does your claim further above, "There assuredly IS NOT any such thing as auditing folder blackmail," square with what you said just here, "Guess you shouldn't have been verbally 'cheating on' your wife fia [sic] the Internet. Those darned overta snd [sic] secrets will come back to bite a guy in the butt?" 

Do you even listen to yourself? First there's no such thing as pc folder blackmail, and then you say tough luck it's your own fault if you get blackmailed. 

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

I could hardly imagine anything more Orwellian than "Auditing." You CO$ apologists are so Brainwashed that you can't see how your language and thought patterns have slipped. But Scientology sticks out so far from consensus reality, outsiders can hear your Newspeak from a mile away.

Your mind is in lockdown, KOL.

Mirko
Mirko

Wow - Auditing sessions really should come with a warning: "Anything you say here isn't confidential, and we will use any information or secrets against you in the future if you leave or dare to say anything remotely critical about the church".

How are you supposed to be able to help people overcome issues, if you are willing to sell them out at the drop of a hat?

You don't see a roman catholic priest breaking the vow of the confessional, or a psychiatrist violating his clients privilege to say things in confidence.

Mirko
Mirko

Well put!

If I recall rightly Hubbard said that 2.5% of the world's population are SP's.... given all the defections and disconnections, I wonder what percentage of the Church from the 80's or 90's have been declared SP's?

scifibandit
scifibandit

You know these 5 people because they paid/ are paying their debt. You wouldn't know of any others because you wouldn't be allowed to talk to them because they would have been declared SPs.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

There is a key legal phrase you must acquaint yourself with, Mr. KeepOnLosing—"An Overwhelming Preponderance of Evidence, " as in "There is an Overwhelming Preponderance of Evidence that Disconnection destroys families," or "There is an Overwhelming Preponderance of Evidence that Scientology is a criminal enterprise." That phrase will come into play many times as you attempt to defend your dying cult.

Clarkle
Clarkle

What a racket.  Sign the billion year contract and get free auditing, but if you quit after 20 million years, you gotta pay for all previous services.  Congratulations, you are envy of every scam artist.

Jgg
Jgg

  KOL, show me a perfect clear.

hgc
hgc

"You go out of your way to mention keeping folders away from courts and law enforcement, but bouncing that info around within the Scientology organization itself is another matter, isn't it?"

Ha! I noticed that little do-si-do too. He's already lying with every post, so why this equivocation here? Looks like this sci-bot has lost the script. By being oh so specific about keeping auditing folders out of the courts, he is as much as admitting that the folders are used elsewhere, as per the accusation.

Anon A
Anon A

Of course, regarding Scientology's "Freeloader's Debt", there's one thing your leaders try to keep you from knowing - that it can't legally be collected at all if the person "blows" Scientology completely and refuses to pay.  Reducing the amount by any percentage (which is not done as often as you seem to think) is arbitrary, since the dollar amount of the service fees (or are they "donations"?) is overblown to begin with.

Regarding auditing folder blackmail, you of course state the official party line that it doesn't happen, regardless of all the evidence to the contrary-- but even your disclaimer is telling.  You go out of your way to mention keeping folders away from courts and law enforcement, but bouncing that info around within the Scientology organization itself is another matter, isn't it?

The "church" works much more assiduously at keeping its staffers in line and on "the bridge" than it does protecting their privacy.

theDude17
theDude17

well, at least he didn't deny family disconnection. 

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Remember that you are speaking of a CHURCH, not the Mafia.

Or did I miss something?

Overwhelming preponderance of evidence, KeepOnLosing, overwhelming preponderance of evidence.

Scientia
Scientia

I believe the word of this poor victim telling Shane Clark to make a choice between keeping his job or being declared and losing his family.

bit DOT ly/prRKxM

Not-is that, asshole.

"21-3428. Blackmail is gaining or attempting to gain anything of value or compelling another to act against such person's will, by threatening to communicate accusations or statements about any person that would subject such person or any other person to public ridicule, contempt or degradation." -- definitions DOT uslegal DOT com

johnny d
johnny d

I bet you would tell a rape victim that "you shouldn't have worn such a short skirt".

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Apparently you never heard of the Geneva convention.

Do you get paid for writing this shit?

scifibandit
scifibandit

But, Ethicstrouble most likely has a very different condition: He/she probably has committed a high crime by acting as a spy within his/her organization. When/if he/she is found out, he/she will be declared suppressive and no other scientologists will be able to associate with him/her anymore.

Clarkle
Clarkle

He's probably still in touch with wife and kid because he's paying off his freeloader debt.  I'd like to see how this would change if he stopped paying.  Some would call this blackmail. 

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

You should engage in some Babylon working with some of your close friends and see who shows up.

Xenu
Xenu

They make an average of just over $35K a year, teach that poverty is holy, and that rich men go to hell.

Scientology teaches that being rich shows that one is upstat and possessed of high havingness, and their role models flaunt it constantly, but they pay SO only about 1/20th of what Catholic clergy make.  What's with that?

Clarkle
Clarkle

Nuns and Priest are given a much better standard of living, and if they decide to leave, the Pope doesn't disconnect them from other nuns and priest.  Terrible analogy.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

You should ask a nun, monk or Roman Catholic priest their pay scale, and whether they do it for the pay.

Xenu
Xenu

Nobody needs to have ethicstrouble identify themselves with pay stubs, a little math resolves it easily.

At California's $8 minimum wage, with overtime taken into account, a staff member would be making right around $1000 a week.  The idea that staff make over $50K a year is so obviously preposterous that one can instantly disregard it.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Everyone I ever spoke to concerning Scientology told me of the incredibly crappy pay they received. It's that overwhelming preponderance of evidence again, loser.

You are such a douchebag, KeepOnLosing.

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