Scientology and Disconnection: "No One's Going to Take My Eternity Away"

Lori Hodgson keeps telling me she's going to give me the entire story of her time in Scientology. Well, I'm still waiting. In the meantime, she talked to Mark Bunker for his upcoming movie Knowledge Report, and this morning he released a segment of that interview.

For those of you still confused about Scientology or its effects on families, please watch this short video carefully. I don't think I've ever seen the church's cruel policy of "disconnection" explained so well or with such impact.

Hodgson explains in the video that last year, she decided to leave Scientology for good. But her two children were worried. They assumed that their mother would be declared a "suppressive person" for leaving (and going public, which she has now done).

By Scientology doctrine, members can remain in good standing only by shunning anyone who has been declared an "SP." Her children, who were also Scientologists, knew that if they did not "disconnect" from their own mother, they would also be declared SPs and would be thrown out of the church.

What's worse, their father was still an ardent Scientologist, and, according to what Hodgson heard through an intermediary, the man gave his kids a crushing ultimatum: if they didn't disconnect from their own mother, he would disconnect from them.

"No one's going to take my eternity away from me," he reportedly told his children.

Some genius, that guy.

I mean, just think about it for a moment. If Scientology were, as its members are so convinced, a breakthrough understanding of the human mind and everything in the cosmos, and with their advanced training high-level members can literally affect matter with their minds, and the church will eventually take over the entire the world and then run the entire galaxy for countless eons... All of that can be threatened because a woman talks to her kids? Seriously?

Well, something to think about this Tuesday morning.

Anyway, Lori, now that you've talked to Wise Beard Man, how about throwing me a bone and giving me the rest of the story? What are you waiting for?



The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology] | [Commenters of the Week]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]
[Aussie former rugby pro Chris Guider calls David Miscavige "toxic" and "violent"]
[Stephen Cox, UK church newbie, pledges 20K pounds] | [Biggi Reichert: A German Lisa McPherson?]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]
[Scientology High School, Dating and Super Powers!]

My Voice Nation Help
205 comments
Spyros
Spyros

I used to be a Scientologist. I have read some thousands of pages and have practiced some SCN too. I no longer read nor practice. I am not afraid of any Church. I don't care if you believe my words, my message is addressed only to those that are actually interested to know a thing or two from me.

My opinion is that the so called 'Church of Scientology', practices Hubbard' s Scientology in reverse, for the most part. Members may gain something by going there, but lose more important things, unless they're clever and brave enough to face what goes on in there. They lose their power of choice, and their own point of view, eventually, so they wont be considered to be bad by some usually high-status Church members. It is a typical practice of persons and groups that intend to manipulate -- "Agree with me, or you're bad", the way I see it.

I want Scientology to vanish, but not because I think that all about it is wrong. Actually, I don't think Hubbard had ever been a tyrant. All that Scientology was based on the concept of making a person 'self-determined' which simply mean more able to determined his own self. So, you see, that is the opposite of tyranny and manipulation. You may disagree that Hubbard actually wanted that. I personally, don't feel Hubbard ever controlled me. Many fake Scientologists tried, but not Hubbard, as that 'ethics' and 'RPF' shit, is just not about what Hubbard himself wrote. And I believe that Hubbard would be glad if no more people were treated as 'OT' puppets by some sick group such as that Church of Scientology or others that want people as dumb monkeys or enraged parrots.

Peace

 

dodobird
dodobird

Forced disconnection is very  destructive, I know because I have experienced it.  If anyone tells you disconnection is no longer practiced in the Church of Scientology, they are misinformed, or worse, outright lying.My ex-husband is dying, I can't visit him.  One of my daughters wants to move to the area where I live--if she does her sister will have to disconnect from her.  Please sign the petition below.  It may not aim at disconnection, but disconnection is a symptom of something wrong.  Crimes have been alleged to have been committed within the COS.  http://tinyurl.com/62eqyyl  Let the truth come out!

MiscavigeIsTheWho
MiscavigeIsTheWho

Rumpelstiltskin : The GE. It's not that Hubbard was anti-family, he was making a point in context to particular group dynamic that was the focus of the article at the time in 1952. The model for the "GE" was later abandoned as research led in a different direction in the 60's. In general he could be kind, or ruthless, whichever he felt the situation called for. You can't pigeon hole Hubbard, he was many things.

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

You are obviously wrong in your summation of hubbard's own words from the lecture. It is stunning how you peiople are so blinded The very last line leaves no doubt that the urge toward family is NOT a thetan urge.

"Families are not good groups; they're bad groups."<----------- See this right here?Are you that daft to think you can try obfuscate hubbard's meaning?Puhlease!

Yeah, hubbard was "many things"A LiarA wifebeaterA convicted criminalA lunatic begging psychs for help early onA charlatan

Yep, he sure was "many things"

MiscavigeIsTheWho
MiscavigeIsTheWho

I'm pretty sure he was a lousy motorcyclist as well and had bad teeth and wrote cheesy music. Yep, I'm sure of all that.

But you left one thing out. The developed an workable subject whereby people can rise above their shadows and live happier lives.

Roadrunner
Roadrunner

 Be so kind to apply your own standards yourself. Just because you state matters does not make them correct. Grow limbs? Plagiarization? Wouldn't think so.

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

You see, this is why scientology/dianetics will never deliver moar than the two words "it works". You automatically think I am Zinj, when even at a slight glance it can be fathomed our syntax is not even similar, let alone the same. I actually am a little flattered to be considered to be Joe. The guy is very well versed for someone that never partook in applying hubbard's implants to himself. I'm not going to out myself, as there's really no need. Who I am has no bearing on scientology/dianetics being complete and utter rubbish used to brainwash people.Yes. BRAINWASH. I don't enjoy using the word to describe what scientology/dianetics is, but it's about a close as you can get with summing up the subjects with a single word. Other words come to mind. Words leik;InsaneIrrationalDisgustingInhumane....just to name several.

Sure, there'll be at least one person that recognizes my very familiar syntax with my opposition to hubbard's psycho political belief system( if you haven't worked out who it is by now, you never will).

LRH claimed to raise the intelligence quotient of those correctly applying his 'tech', yet in real terms scientology/dianteics overtly makes people stupider than if they were dropped on their heads at birth. It is just so sad the people emotional quotient falls well below the degraded I.Q from hubbard's rubbish.

Yet again, if even a scintilla of truth applied to what hubbard claims as being fact/real...one of you freezone/Indie scilons would exteriorize right up and into one of the 65,000+ entry points into my PC and either out me or shut me up.

Yeah, no OT''s, no clears....just deluded people wishing to spread the very contagion of aberration scientology/diantetics claims to not only eliminate, but eradicate.

Why do thetans mock up?Because they become fucking idiots following hubbard.

MiscavigeIsTheWho
MiscavigeIsTheWho

Yes I agree it worked for the very few hundred or so people that I know, and apparently that is 99 more than I personally need to hear from that it works. Is that you Zindj?

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

I didn't leave it out, as it has to exist in real terms to be omitted in the first place. Saying "it works" deosn't mean "it works" just because a minuscule amount say so.'Reality' by way of 'agreement' makes for the flimsiest 'reality', especially when your own axioms dictate that should just one person not 'agree', said 'reality' is destined for 'vanishment' .Of course, I am sure if anyone every grew back an arm or a leg(yep, dianetics can grow back severed limbs according to LRH), the world would not only know about it, but every man woman and child on the face of the Earth would be dianeticists by now.

Hubbard originated very little, and dianetics is just another 'discovery' that hubbard stole and plagiarized to suit his own needs.

For goodness sakes, Dr. A. Nordenholz originated scientology(Scientology, Science of the Constitution and Usefulness of Knowledge) that was first published in 1934.Yeah, keep on telling yourself what you need to get you through life.

Roadrunner
Roadrunner

Apparently this blog is being moderated. I had a message after which a pop-up window follows telling me it had to be approved first. There was nothing offensive about it or other that I could see. Anyone I never heard about it again and it did not get posted.

Either way these discussions are rather useless, people are not listening, they are only interested to display their personal opinions.

TonyOrtega
TonyOrtega

No, I'm not moderating, Roadrunner. You may run into issues with formatting or with links -- we had to make it hard to post links because of spammers. This system, Disqus, also seems to have glitches that are hard to explain. I wish it worked more smoothly. Please, just be patient. I want everyone to be able to leave their comments so they can be seen.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

It's a formatting issue. If you want to add links, post first then add the link afterwards as an edit. If the post is laid out in a particular way, the software that attempts to prevent spam might give you that window that gave you the impression that this blog is moderated. If it was, some of the Sci-Bot slime wouldn't get posted, and that would be no fun, would it Marcotai?

And there's some folks out there who have good reason to vent.

nexusthe
nexusthe

Of course it's being moderated. Otherwise the blog would be filled with spam within seconds (which is oh so slightly exaggerated). But real messages not showing up is not because they are being censored but because DISCUS has a problem with links or formatting or....whatever. Whenever the message pops up check the format/style etc. of your message and post it again. 

nexibello

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

"THE GE IS A FAMILY MAN

The GE is a family man; the GE is lost without a family. It's very strange, but Homo sap is a family unit. The GE is built on that basis. It's fascinating, fascinating. It's not important to know it but a lot of your urges toward families and so forth are not thetan urges at all, they're the GE. The GE can't survive at all without a family unit. He's just as dead as a mackerel if he isn't a family unit, whereas your thetan is just dead as a mackerel if he gets too mixed up in family units.

You can't talk to GEs; they're kind of psycho. And by the way, you can fall into this dreadful trap with a GE. You see, he uses the MEST universe with which to build. He's gotten very, very bad off and he has to use MEST materials all the time.

So, you get this situation here with the GE, and your GE is busy: build, build, build, build, build. And, of course he's got to have a family to build with.

You get this terrific family thirst. And you get your GE surviving best and being loused up the most because of interfamily relationships.

And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups; they're bad groups."

LRH, From the taped lecture "Flows: Patterns of Interaction" 10 December 1952

Love
Love

LRH is just as dead as a mackerel!!!!

Meishayuri
Meishayuri

It's great how a religion can be so family oriented like Scientology, why, what they did to this family is only one of the many abuses followers take for drinking the Kool Aid.

MiscavigeIsTheWho
MiscavigeIsTheWho

Psych Friend, oh come on.

There's a difference between how an authoritarian system like the current radical scientology juggernaut breaks up families and ruins business relationships and shatters life long alliances, compared to someone getting booted out of a chat room for a squabble. If I were to take your logic and extend it further towards the ridiculous,  disconnection would include hanging up on a phone solicitor. 

Robin Scott has differing views and as a Independent Scientologist I applaude him for NOT keeping his mouth shut. The Indies are a loose rag tag bunch and there is no "one size fits all" you can hang on us with your sweeping statements and sandbox logic.

I only find it regrettable for the sake of the good than can be achieved with Scn technology that this topic has morphed into a knee jerk solution for a card carrying kool-aid drinking Scientologist  who can't tolerate an inconvenient scrap of historical data that challenges their "hoo-rah"programing and then disconnects from the source of the "entheta". (Cognitive dissonance)

THATS what this topic is about.  

"Miscavige is the Who" works so far only as it's NOT necessary to explain away every bad policy that Hubbard ever wrote. I am addressing disconnection TODAY and exposing how the church (currently being led by David Miscavige) is using a practice that was cancelled by the founder, WHICH ANY RIGHT MINDED SCIENTOLOGIST SHOULD BE MADE AWARE OF, so when they (hopefully) decide to look for themselves (like I did on the Internet) they will want to know more. Attacking Hubbard is easy to do, he's dead and can't change his policies from the grave. And when he was alive, he changed and amended policies and admitted SOME of his mistakes. Will a Scientologist be more likely to look further if the focus is on David Miscavige, who after all, is the current leader?  Yes I think so.

Once they are out and decompress, they are likely to see more on their own. It'a amazing what you can hear when you take the cotton out of your ears.

Psych Friend
Psych Friend

No, you "come one" MiscavigeIsTheWho! You called Zander's comment "bullcrap", and then you further compounded your lie by insulting him when you said "You talking out of your arse pal." Here's the conversation in case you forgot:(Zander) "The SP Doctrine is very real. Both the CofS Scientologists and the Independent Scientologists support it. And they both lie about it." (MiscavigeIsTheWho) "Bullcrap. I don't know of ANY Indie who doesn't despise the practice of disconnection. You talking out of your arse pal."

I merely pointed out YOUR LIE. There are LOTS of examples of Independent Scientologists practicing disconnection. Open your friggin' eyes. 

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

(Repeating this, as it's buried in a response below. Kill it if you wish, but it's important.)

Your team choose not to absorb data given you. I don't say you're stupid. This is just a "games condition." You have no problem with anyone else's disconnections: Restraining orders, "do not approach" orders, "do not congregate" orders, limited visitation rights by criminal or abusive parents, court mandates to avoid felons, or the many other religions who did or do practice forms of "shunning" or excommunication. You concentrate your "crusade" solely on Scientology. Perhaps the following may help a lurker or scholar understand: Winning in life, love, kids and spouse, career--and doing this with higher integrity, ability to better help family and others, and new spiritual awarenesses is, to me, the most precious thing life can bestow. That happens OFTEN in Scientology. Then someone compulsively, obsessively, begins to repeatedly defecate all over that person's wins. LOTS AND LOTS of communication is tried to get "Person B" to stop dragging down "Person A." If--following mediations, explanations, reading, perhaps even tours of the church and its social-betterment facilities--the obsessed person ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to stop him/herself from ongoing invalidation and criticism--OF SOMEONE THEY PROFESS TO LOVE--then something must be done to rescue the victim of that relationship aggression. When all else fails, disconnection is THE LAST RESORT after all manner of reconciliations have been tried and tried and failed and failed. But note, they only failed because the TROUBLE-MAKING PARTY IS OUT OF SELF-CONTROL AND CANNOT STOP HER/HIMSELF FROM MAKING LIFE MISERABLE for a Scientologist--IN THEIR OWN FAMILY--who is winning in Scientology. Shunning and disconnection happens in nearly every family. Does everyone in all your families all talk lovingly with each other? Or are some people so obnoxioius they're no longer invited to dinners? I bet they didn't get as many attempts at reconciliation! Probably, Aunt Susie dictated at 110dB, "I will NOT come to ANY Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner you invite THAT SOB to!" Disconnection accomplished.

Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet
Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet

This gets worse and worse. It's almost like something out of Star Trek. Let's all be Vulcans from Amok Time( Theodore Sturgeon) , except, that's a piece of fiction, and we all know it. " No one's gonna take my LOGIC away!!!!!!!" There may have been actual people who have said those words and they are medicated. How did a sci fi novel manage to rise to the level of religion, anyway?  If any of us tried to alienate a child from a parent based on role-play from a work of fiction, we'd be declared as unfit parents.

Angela Garcia as NeonMosfet

Indie
Indie

(AnonymousNow)"Distilled to it's essence, it's a cult of the self possessed and greedy-- willing to destroy their own family or anyone else in exchange for the promise of demon powers.  This is the Satan construct."

Oh holy bananas batman. Before I got any auditing back in 1976I was smoking pot and a high school drop out.  Couldn't keep a job. Didn't like people. After getting auditing and studying Scientology I rose above all that and became confident, successful and good with people. I can now help others as well. When a person literally gets their life saved through the application of a workable method, yeah, they become grateful. They aren't pursuing higher awareness so they can gain "demonic powers" and get over on people. Quite the opposite.

When that method however gets hijacked and is used as a carrot to extract money from people, yes, they act wrongly. It's a survival thing. You would do the same. Sometimes it happens when you are about to go under the surface of the water, you are drowning and gasping for your last breath, you might grab onto another person who is also drowning and use them to raise your self out of the water, even if for another instant, to give yourself a chance of prolonging your life.

You clearly don't know what Scientology is, or how auditing works.

People who have been helped using Scientology hold it in high regard because for many, it has literally saved their life. That is what is at play here. Her husband feels his wife is being knuckle headed for leaving the lifeboat. I get that, from his perspective, because I was there too.

But when I researched how the church had been hijacked back in the 80's, and how it had been behaving badly for so many decades, I knew I could no longer support either.

My family was ripped apart by disconnection for 25 years. YEARS went by where my own mother had no contact with her own daughter. It's tragic, but please understand that it's not the gun that's been held against peoples heads in this case, it's WHO's holding the gun and WHY it's being used a social control mechanism.

In the Independent Scientology movement, the auditing technology is being used for it's purpose, to help raise peoples awareness and help them do better in life. DISCONNECTION as a practice is not used. There are no guns being held to anyone's head to extract money.

It's not about control or real estate.

Disconnection was originally a temporary measure so a person could get some relief from those who were creating hostility in their life, so auditing could occur and help the individual become more able to handle life and their relationships.

Clearly it got out of hand and when used by those who have their own agenda, in order to profit by it's misuse, you have what we see today.

My entire family left corporate Scientology because of the disconnection control method.

For every sad story about mothers being shunned, realize there are more and more examples of people coming to their senses and families have been reuniting. This situation is tragic, but it's getting better as the word is getting out.

Hang in there Lori.   

Old Timer
Old Timer

Miscavige is not the "who". Hubbard is the "who". Indies that blame Scientology ills on Miscavige are delusional.

Psych Friend
Psych Friend

MiscavigeIsTheWho: You are a liar. Indies running a Facebook group invite individuals, and then disconnect from them by canceling their membership when the member started asking tough questions. Don't believe me? Just ask Robin Scott.

AnonymousNow
AnonymousNow

""No one's going to take my eternity away from me," he reportedly told his children."

A parent that would take his children away from their mother because he thinks he will live forever-- like a vampire-- if he does so is evil.Distilled to it's essence, it's a cult of the self possessed and greedy-- willing to destroy their own family or anyone else in exchange for the promise of demon powers.  This is the Satan construct.

LRH and Crowley were indeed good friends. 

MarkStark
MarkStark

This is just one of the possible negative outcomes that can result in raising children to believe  that they are the ONLY ones who can save the planet from impending destruction, according to the dictates of a hypnotist and science fiction writer who had three wives, drove one son to suicide, and alienated the other.

Scientology pretends it is about EVERYTHING, raising happy families and your IQ(!), gaining control over matter, energy, space and time, saving the Universe, having powerz to shatter suppression. Hubbard even claimed he could control the aging process. And Scientology gets people to pretend they can do these things. They can't.

Marty hosing down the Squirrel Busters is not using super powerz to "shatter suppression." Hubbard couldn't demonstrate the attributes of a "clear." This is factual. (As Hubbard used to say.)

The "pretending" part might be the fun part, and sometimes the part that "works." However, it was designed primarily as a hard-sell to perpetuate itself, and it appeals to only a tiny fraction of the population, probably less than 1%. Scientology is predicated on exploiting the vulnerabilities of people who don't know anything about how it operates, or even what they believe.

Among the brainwashed, "losing your eternity" is a metaphor, for questioning the tenants or policies of a system one has bought into, sometimes for years.

Hubbard's system forbids doubt or criticism. In Hubbard's system, the critic is a sociopath, slated for disposal quietly without sorrow, once governments are run using Hubbard's system.

t1kk
t1kk

I can understand possible reasons why she might not want to get a lawyer and enforce her visitation rights but those rights are hers if she wants to enforce them. Disconnection doesn't trump family law in any US state. And if Scientology interferes by, say, forcing the father to purchase courses for himself and/or the children to repair any of the supposed harm done by the mother's enforcing her right to visitation, I'm sure a judge would love to hear their justification for such interference (or any of the other myriad ways they interfere in divorce proceedings and family disputes). This scenario is unfortunately common and only rarely does anyone push back against it. Religious interests often serve as a monkeywrench in divorces and custody battles but Scientology's influence is among the most pernicious in such settings.

Love
Love

The church victims doesn't want to do anything, even when they can do something small  about it like sinning the petitions and get their voice herd.

mjm
mjm

FYI Tony: John Travolta and Kelly Preston's residence is at 14899 Keuka Village Road, Wayne, NY 14837

Peter Söderqvist
Peter Söderqvist

Soderqvist1: Zander, the poster Roadrunner is not a troll, but he has an extraordinary point of view regarding L. Ron Hubbard in the sense that he believe that the Hubbard who left the ship Apollo 1972 was not the same Hubbard who came back to the ship 1973. He do not tell how such a thing is possible without the crew recognize that he is not the same man, but somehow Roadrunner know it is not the same man, yet he was not there. So his point of view is extraordinary with a vengeance to put it mildly. Btw, this below is said by L. Ron Hubbard’s butler which can be found on his blog. And the last quote is from high court of London and can found if someone Google “official paper on Scientology!”

Ken Urquhart:"Fair Game was officially repudiated by L. Ron Hubbard in order to appease the New Zealand Government, but the act was a sham, a lie, a piece of paper which he had no intention of honoring in deed. I know that because he announced as much right in front of me when the news came that he needed to issue the cancellation of Fair Game policy. His evident intention was to suppress the overt practice of Fair Game for a while but to continue the practice when he felt it was needed, but not get caught at it."

Mr Justice Latey in High Court of London 1984It was suggested, but not pursued, that this did cancel the Fair Game treatment. It did nothing of the kind as the last sentence shows. It was cosmetic only for public consumption. Deprival of property, injury by any means, trickery, suing, lying or destruction have been pursued throughout and to this day with the fullest possible vigour.

There has been harassment of the mother and step-father in this case. The father sent the documents in the case to the "Church", who in turn sent them with directions to the head of their Guardians' Office in the town where the mother and step-father lived. They tried to persuade them to discontinue the proceedings. If they did not they would be interfering with the "spiritual progress" of the children and would be expelled from the Church. They refused. Soon afterwards one of the step-father's company's employees, a Scientologist, resigned his job. He told the stepfather that this was because he was engaging in suppressive acts". He said that he had not wished to leave the company but had been ordered to do so by the "Church".

I was informed of this at the hearing for directions in January 1984. I warned that any continuance or repetition would be severely dealt with and it is right to say that there has been none. Now at the end of this case I repeat publicly what I said then: The powers of this Court are wide and its arm is long. If there is any intimidation or harassment of any description of anyone connected with this case it will be dealt with the utmost severity.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

For those not aware, Ken Urquhart is very much an Independent Scientologist, does Scientology auditing for a living, and also is a very nice guy.

While he disagrees with Hubbard on a number of organizational policies/approaches (as do many of us in the Independent Scn community), he very much supports the "auditing methodology" developed by Hubbard, and overall holds Hubbard in esteem.  If interested, I would suggest reading Urquhart's full response to Jon Attack's "Piece of Blue Sky" to get his views.

www . freezoneearth . org / ivy / bluesky / index.htm

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

Whilst there at it, they might also want to read about Capt Bill Robertson (he originated free zone, Google "Captain Bill Robertson ") that clearly was nucking futs due to running ron's own case as his own.They may also find interest in the only time hubbard allowed testing of his dianetic theory, which inevitably was found to be rubbish (Google "A Clinical Trial of Dianetic Theory")

I am sorry top insult you Marg, but scientology application sends people insane if they go up the bridge. Applied correctly, scientology makes one an irrational automaton stripped of logic.

"THE INVISIBLE THIRD WORLD WAR" outlines just how nuts freezoners become.

Rumpelstiltskin
Rumpelstiltskin

Are you serious? SOS as some sort of reference point to quantify the efficiency of dianetic testing?

You win Marg, I give up.You are so deluded/lost in hubbard's game

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

There've been several tests of dianetic theory -- the one with the largest test group was published in the beginning of Science of Survival (though the test was flawed in other ways).   Two subsequent tests were smaller, and also weak in other ways. 

I went into my views on testing in an earlier comment (under the LRH#1 article iirc), so I won't re-iterate them all here.  In short, I'd be very much in favor of scientifically testing the efficacy of auditing, compared to other methods/placebo.

Peter Söderqvist
Peter Söderqvist

Roadrunner: It doesn't, all these things were gotten rid of in 1968. During my time one did not operate of from some cancelled fair game practice or the likes. Where it concerns disconnection that was reinforced and stronger in 1983 by Robert Vaughn Young on order of David Miscavige (per RVY). You have to figure out hower if that organization was still the organization headed by L. Ron Hubbard.

Soderqvist1: (per RVY) where did he say this?The declaration below was done by RVY in district court of California 1994, and the quotes from it are only part of what he said about Fair Game in his declaration!

CANCELLATION OF FAIR GAME ONLY MEANT NOT USING THE WORDS ANY MORE BECAUSE IT CAUSED "BAD PUBLIC RELATIONS"In the late 1960s, Hubbard was having growing public relations problems. One problem was Fair Game. To deal with it, Hubbard wrote an issue that is often cited by CSI as evidence that Fair Game was canceled. But a careful reading will show that nothing has changed but semantics. The issue is "Cancellation of Fair Game" dated 21 October 1968. (Attached as Exhibit L) The entire text of the policy letter (P/L) is as follows:

"The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad Public relations. This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP.” L. Ron Hubbard Founder

THUS THE SO-CALLED "CANCELLATION" OF FAIR GAME DID NOT CANCEL THE USE OF FAIR GAME TACTICS.The original directive that CSI uses to say the Fair Game Doctrine was canceled expressly establishes that the only change was to stop using the words "Fair Game." Hubbard was quite clear that tactics were not to change. only the use of the words in public. As further evidence of Fair Game continuing, Hubbard later wrote "Confidential: Targets, Defense" on February 16, 1969, (Attached as Exhibit M) in which he listed "vital targets on which we must invest most of our time…" The first and most important: "T1. Depopularizing the enemy to a point of total obliteration."

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America and the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed in Los Angeles, California, this 9th day of March, 1994. Robert Vaughn Young

Peter Söderqvist
Peter Söderqvist

Roadrunner:It doesn't, all these things were gotten rid of in 1968. During my time one didnot operate of from some cancelled fair game practice or the likes. Where itconcerns disconnection that was reinforced and stronger in 1983 by RobertVaughn Young on order of David Miscavige (per RVY). You have to figure outhower if that organization was still the organization headed by L. Ron Hubbard.

 

Soderqvist1:(per RVY) where did he say this?

The declarationbelow was done by RVY in district court of California 1994, and the quotes fromit are only part of what he said about Fair Game in his declaration!

 

 

CANCELLATIONOF FAIR GAME ONLY MEANT NOT USING THE WORDS ANY MORE BECAUSE IT CAUSED"BAD PUBLIC RELATIONS"

In thelate 1960s, Hubbard was having growing public relations problems. One problemwas Fair Game. To deal with it, Hubbard wrote an issue that is often cited byCSI as evidence that Fair Game was canceled. But a careful reading will showthat nothing has changed but semantics. The issue is "Cancellation of FairGame" dated 21 October 1968. (Attached as Exhibit L) The entire text ofthe policy letter (P/L) is as follows:

 

"Thepractice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear onany Ethics Order. It causes bad Public relations. This P/L does not cancel anypolicy on the treatment or handling of an SP.”

L. RonHubbard Founder

 

THUS THESO-CALLED "CANCELLATION" OF FAIR GAME DID NOT CANCEL THE USE OF FAIRGAME TACTICS.

Theoriginal directive that CSI uses to say the Fair Game Doctrine was canceledexpressly establishes that the only change was to stop using the words"Fair Game." Hubbard was quite clear that tactics were not tochange.  only the use of the words inpublic. As further evidence of Fair Game continuing, Hubbard later wrote"Confidential: Targets, Defense" on February 16, 1969, (Attached asExhibit M) in which he listed "vital targets on which we must invest mostof our time…" The first and most important: "T1. Depopularizing theenemy to a point of total obliteration."

 

Ideclare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of Americaand the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed inLos Angeles, California, this 9th day of March, 1994. Robert Vaughn Young

//www.solitarytrees.net/racism/r...

 

 

 

 

nexusthe
nexusthe

Don't miss Tommy "Slippery-like-an-eel" Davies' detailed outline of Scientology disconnection in "Scientology: The Ex-Files" (ABC Australia, March 2010), e.g. in the Interview Transcript, right at the beginning of part 2 (google for "scientology davies four corners").

nexibello

Lenny
Lenny

Dr. Hubbard PhD, was, very intellilectual.  He made/ develiped ways to make you exteriorized.  He could make people like be exterior.  One of the many advantages of this was it made you able to see the back of your head.  So  if you combed it wrong, you could see that.  This was intiresteng!  LOL

Indie
Indie

(Zander) "The SP Doctrine is very real. Both the CofS Scientologists and the Independent Scientologists support it. And they both lie about it."

Bullcrap. I don't know of ANY Indie who doesn't despise the practice of disconnection. You talking out of your arse pal.

Josta
Josta

Can you scroll down and discuss what LRH statesnabout family not being a good but bad group?

Didn't think so

Oh, and I see now that the ground cuckoo has surfaced with the usual obfuscation and lies about disconnection and fair game policy usually reserved for alt.religion.scientologyFunny, the supposed cancellation still included that fair game may be applied to SP'

MarkStark
MarkStark

I'm not sure how the "lose your eternity" thing works. Does someone give your name to a worker at the implant station on Mars? Do smothering clusters of body thetans convert you into a one-lifer?

Jen
Jen

I agree, that comment is too stupid.  I suspect it came from a corporate scientologist specializing in raping people's bank accounts, advising the poor sot to ruin his family. 

Spirulina
Spirulina

One of the things that attracted me to spiritual practice was the abundance of graceful, sublime, humble, and profound practitioners I've encountered over the years.  Though their traditions may have varied, their luminosity shone. 

Now let's look at the scientologists.  Clumsy and dunderheaded, yet simultaneously filled with misplaced bravado, superficial and unable to conduct any meaningful dialogue, closed off, heads in the sand.  It must be the only "spiritual" tradition that turns you into a spiritual retard.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

The bigger story is how, while she was ill, the church harassed and coerced her into giving up her 15 year old kids to the Sea Org.

MarthaWiggins
MarthaWiggins

OSA turned up on our front porch and demanded that we stop communicating with Jeff Hawkins (my husband's brother).  We laughed and laughed, told her she picked the wrong family to fuck with.

Guest
Guest

I was almost going to say the Scientology, by prohibiting substantive "religious" discussion amongst it's (brainwashed) members, deprives itself of any hope of evolving through interfaith forums (like real religions do all the time).  

Then it occurred to me that Scientology wouldn't stand up to any substantive discussion, and that prohibiting such discussion amongst it's (brainwashed) members is really the last leg, the ONLY leg this cult has to stand on. 

And it's been that way, which in a twisted way worked... before the series of intertubes was connected.

MiscavigeIsTheWho
MiscavigeIsTheWho

"Once outside the official Scientology control zone, people return to normal tolerant behavior."  110% agree and would add "more sensible" as well.

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Official Scientology makes fraudulent claims of  improving family relations.

A sobbing mom is obviously proof that official Scientology isn't improving conditions in life.  

I note that the "suppressive" ex official Scientologists would never pull this kind of crap on  each other!.   Once outside the official Scientology control zone, people return to normal tolerant behavior.  

MiscavigeIsTheWho
MiscavigeIsTheWho

Hubbard cancelled disconnection in 1968. It was a bad policy and it got out of hand. Miscavige ordered it re-written and reinstated under Hubbards name in 1983. This is not the only time Miscavige monkeyed with Hubbards policys, both administrative and technical. I am an independent practicing Scientologist and have suffered from disconnection for decades, I know first hand the pain it causes. I acknowledge Hubbard made some blunders, but he attempted to correct this one. Miscavige is the person responsible for this corrupt and immoral practice continuing. Just saying.

Xenu
Xenu

In 1969, Hubbard canceled disconnection, fair game, sec checks and the recording of anything which went on in auditing sessions.  The only problem with this was that the HCOPL in which he did it was SO confidential, that the only known copy of it was sent to a commission in New Zealand which were on the brink of illegalizing Scientology there.  It was never applied by anyone, because nobody else has ever seen it, or been allowed to.

In short, it was all Hubbard lying his head off for PR reasons. Not reporting what happens in a session?  Gimme a break!  That was NOT done, even for a day. If anyone ever manages to find a copy of HCOPL 7 Mar 1969 (title unknown), I'd love to find out what the full text was.

Roadrunner
Roadrunner

Sorry, it was not confidential, this is not so indicated in the routing of that reference from 21 July 1968.

"recording of anything which went on in auditing sessions"?, no idea what you try to imply here!

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Actually Xenu, a section of the "Intro to Scientology Ethics" (ISE) book in 1969 was changed to remove mandated disconnection from individuals declared suppressive.

In particular, in the "Suppressive Acts" list of ISE, the line that required Scientologists to disconnect from "individiduals and groups declared suppressive" was changed to just    "groups declared suppressive". The requirement to disconnect from "individuals" (which had been in the first 1968 edition) was removed.  This change remained in the ISE editions for more than a decade.

I did some research into this, and confirmed that the change (i.e. the removal of enforced disconnection from individuals) remained in all the ISE books in 1969, through the 1970s and up to 1981.  There were more than a dozen editions/printings during this period.

In the 1982 ISE edition however -- and all subsequent versions -- the requirement to disconnect from "individuals and groups declared suppressive" was re-inserted. The change appears to be date-coincident with Miscavige's overall re-implementation of disconnection and reported falsification of Hubbard policy.

While I would agree that the "reform codes" of 1968 definitely did not go far enough, this change in ISE through the 1970s does appear to confirm that Hubbard's intent for the reform of "disconnection" (at least as it applied to individuals) was being implemented.

Zander
Zander

I was there. Hubbard did not discontinue Disconnection in 1968, any more than he discontinued Fair Game in 1968. The methods of disconnection were modified to avoid any more PR flaps. The words, "Fair Game" were no longer to be used publicly, but the practice continued covertly.

The so called Reform Code of 1968 was a PR action. It proclaimed that Disconnection, Fair Game and Security Checking were "cancelled." It was a lie.

Do you think that Hubbard "cancelled" Fair Game in 1968 too?

If so, I've some oil wells in Atlantic City to sell you.

Roadrunner
Roadrunner

Sorry, but you are rather mistaken. If you want to understand these matters than please offer more that just your plain opinion. Start researching recorded history. There was only one single reason for disconnection and that was to make auditing able to occur, and it was always temporarily only. Some people however applied it incorrectly and turned it into a 'condition'. Which accounts for the 1968 cancellation reference. Then the 'practice' of fair game was cancelled in July 1968, some people however continued to use the term. This accounts for the cancellation for the use of the term 3 months later in October.

Roadrunner
Roadrunner

We all know why you don't want to argue with people that know what they talk about! Simple as that. The practice of fair game got cancelled by HCO PL 21 Jul 68 “Penalties for Lower Conditions” This last issue in it's turn was surpassed by another 8 references each of them confirming the cancellation of the practice of fair game.http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/pap...

You whole claim is based on HCO PL 21 Oct 68 “Cancellation of Fair Game” that only reinforced that even the term was not to be used anymore. It did not have to cancel the practice anymore. The 21 July 1968 reference had already done that!Have a nice day you follower and believer of Gerry Armstrong! .-)

Zander
Zander

If you believe the practice of Fair Game was cancelled in 1968, you are fooling yourself.

Hubbard wrote extensive Fair Game tech, and directed the application of Fair Game through the 1970s. See the documents revealed as a result of federal criminal case 78-401.

I don't want to argue with you, you're obviously a true believer.

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