Scientology Mailbag: We Hear it from Church Members

Categories: Scientology

PurifRundown.jpg
I can feel the Niacin working -- I can fly! I can fly!
We have several really interesting stories working this week, but we thought we'd start things off with something a little different.

Since we started moving to nearly daily coverage of Scientology back in April, the tips coming in here to the underground bunker have been voluminous and oh, so helpful. To all of you in Australia, Germany, the UK, France, Canada, and across the United States sending me alerts to breaking news -- I am humbled and grateful.

We also have a rich, robust free-for-all going on in our comments section between Scientology church members, Scientology critics, and independent Scientologists. I even get in there myself and spar with folks from time to time. It keeps me on my toes!

However, despite the presence of that forum, some church members still prefer to e-mail me directly. Knowing that some of our readers would like to see how these folks react to our coverage, I thought I'd share with you a few of their letters!

We want to thank Gary Tanno for this recent message of helpful advice:

I dearly wish you knew what you were talking about when it comes to Scientology. I suggest you read a book about it. Millions of people have been helped by it. You can't say that for Psychiatrist.

Read a book about it! Well, we did read and review (and make extensive use of) both Janet Reitman's excellent Inside Scientology and Hugh Urban's The Church of Scientology. Oh, I think you mean I should read a book by L. Ron Hubbard! Well, I have, but you aren't the first church member to urge me to go back to the basics. An upcoming announcement, then, should maybe thrill you. But for now, let's move on to the person who e-mails us the most, Runnin' Scared favorite Mark Miglio.

After we initially produced an entire Miglio letter on the blog back in August, he's sent us several more messages. I thought I'd share two of them with you.

On October 8, Miglio sent this message after we had mentioned Scientology's anti-drug front group, Narconon, after we featured a comment about Narconon by Damian Dewitt in our "Commenters of the Week" post that day.

Dear Tony, I feel I should I say something about the Purification Program and its use of sauna and niacin, and its inclusion in the Narconon program as the basic self-improvement action in a similar way that the Church uses it as one of the first things a new Scientologist will do. I did the purif in 1981, I was one of the first members to do it -- one of many thousands that have since followed. First, you should have the data that the purif saunas are not as hot as the saunas in the health clubs. I was in and out of the sauna for four hours a day -- for 18 days. It was neat to be sweating out the garbage we all get -- even if we don't use street drugs. It was easy to do and a breeze. I sat in a brightly-lighted sauna and read mags and paperback books, and conversed with the other people in the sauna. I also left the sauna and took long walks, cool-down showers, and did periods of exercises outside of the sauna during this 4-hour period. So the actual time in the sauna was like, two hours. I looked forward to doing this regimen each day and this was the healthiest I have ever felt; I am 57 years old currently. Niacin is the only vitamin that is never toxic when properly used. Niacin that has added ingredients, and formulated to be a "time-release" version, is toxic in large dosages. I spent three years working at Narconon. Never once did I see anyone given altered niacin, or have any physical difficulties with the heat of the the lower-regulated heat saunas. All of the participants had to have signed okay from the on-site doctor to be approved for the program. The thing is that environmental chemicals and the chemicals in our food does affect the way we think, feel, and will even cause feelings of depression for some. The mind and body work together. You can do one thing to one of them and not affect the other. This is also explains why psych drugs backfire. A psych drug can make you feel happier by pushing all of your "happy chemicals" in to your system, but it will be a a short-term effect because the body will eventually suffer from the effects of the drugs, and the brain-mind-emotional connection will suffer too...

ARC
Mark

Four days later, Miglio sent another message, this one in response to our short piece about Lori Hodgson, who went through the nightmare of having her teenaged children "disconnect" from her when she left Scientology:

Tony, I don't know Lori but I can say she was declared an SP because of her antagonism to the church.  It is one thing to say, "Scientology is not for me" but quite another thing to be come a combatant antagonistic to the rest of us Scientologist.  There are plenty of former Scientologists not declared. After all, you, yourself, that we have so many people leaving the church, but I say then where are all these untold numbers of suppressive person declares? I have quoted more about this issue from one of our websites: "A person declared a Suppressive Person is extremely rare and results in expulsion from the Scientology religion. This occurs in instances of serious offenses against the Scientology faith and can also occur when an individual is found to be actively working to suppress the well-being of others. This can be done through criminal acts already recognized by society as unlawful or through the commitment of acts deemed Suppressive Acts in the Scientology Justice Codes -- which includes the Suppressive Act of publicly renouncing the faith, an act which in Scientology, as well as almost every religion, is grounds for automatic expulsion." "When someone has been expelled from the religion, that person loses both his or her fellowship with the Church as well as with other Scientologists. The condition lasts until they have been restored to good standing. Once the person has been restored to good standing, the prohibition against fellowship with other Scientologists is lifted. Similar practices have been part of religious communities for thousands of years and have been recognized by courts of law as a fundamental right." I hope Lori will come to her senses, knock off her suppressive denial, make amends, and rejoin her family. Any questions? Comments?

Questions? Comments? No doubt our commenters will have plenty, Mark. And keep those letters coming!


The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology] | [Commenters of the Week] [Thursday 2pm Stats!]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]
[Scientology hates clean ice: The "Fair Game" operation that should turn your stomach]
[Scientology hates clean ice, part 2: Another target, and the web as weapon]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]
[Lori Hodgson and Disconnection: "No one's going to take my eternity away"]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]
[Philip Boyd, Saving Grace actor, rips "the business that is Scientology"]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]
[Aussie former rugby pro Chris Guider calls David Miscavige "toxic" and "violent"]
[Stephen Cox, UK church newbie, pledges 20K pounds] | [Biggi Reichert: A German Lisa McPherson?] | [The Birmingham trove: 7,000 internal e-mails]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]
[Scientology High School, Dating and Super Powers!]

My Voice Nation Help
225 comments
Jgg
Jgg

  OK, that was too hard, too unfair.  Never ask a Scibot to name something original in Dianetics.  Several scientists dismissed it as rubbish long ago.  You admit he was wrong about smoking and other things.  So I'll ask something else--name one area of your life in which Scientology has helped you.

KeepOnLearning
KeepOnLearning

The use of anti-religious name-nouns to describe ethnicities or religions you don't like is a certain sign of emotional involvement clouding intellect.

So using "Scilon," "clam," and the like instantly places the user among the unenviable crowd who use the ugly and well known slang pejoratives to describe Jews, Hispanics, Catholics, Africans, et al.

Jgg
Jgg

  Type "abreaction" into the Wikipedia site and read it.  It discusses the "traumatic memories" concept developed by Jung before 1930, and goes on to state that Hubbard borrowed them in Dianetics.  Same with every other concept he "invented."

 

Mat Pesch
Mat Pesch

Mark Miglio?   57 years old.  Did the Purif in 1981.   Hummmmm....   Could this be the same Mark Miglio that was routed off the International base in Hemet CA. in 1981/1982 due to "devill worship" and other strange behavior?  No joke.  I was the Security Chief at the time.

Warrior
Warrior

Hey Mat: Sounds like Mr. Miglio would have been considered a "squirrel"  by Scientology at the Int. Base. Any comment would be appreciated.

Mat Pesch
Mat Pesch

Honestly, he didn't know enough Scientology to even be considered a "squirrel".  He was simply considered a NUT.  The guy was so whacked he was scary to have around.  I can't believe that 30 years later he has become the spokes person for Radical Scientology.Where's Tommy Davis when we need him???  Next we'll have Charles Manson speaking on behalf of the "church".....

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Yes, I believe that's him. Mark as from NY. After he left Int, he went back to NYO. I don't believe he's ever done an auditing side bridge service, except maybe Objectives at Narconon. You can see his facebook photo here. Looks much like he did back then.h t t p : // forums . whyweprotest . net /threads/tom-cruise-not-a-kook-so-they-say.90769/ #post-1810496

None
None

That's Mark Miglio?

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

Nadia Beliskaya
Nadia Beliskaya

Trance of the theta wave 4-8 Hz - standard technology of Scientology. The soul is not equal to "theta". "Theta" - code for a reason. Spiritual trap. It is bad that people today are subject to a black square, a painted sketch of Hubbard Nazism. Thank you for telling the truth about the technology of trance theta waves. Mothers and children must be protected against the Scientologists. The soul is not equal to theta - it would destroy the encoding scheme of Scientologists.

dodobird
dodobird

Clearly a misunderstood of the word theta.  I comes from the Greek meaning "thought"Theta has nothing to do in Scientology with the theta waves as above.  It is just a way to describe life source. Thetan then is the individual life source for the body.  It is the "you" who is in charge and when the body dies you shed it much as you shed clothes when you no longer need them.  Thetan is immortal.  Theta is pure source of life; thetan an individual source of a specific life.  Not that anyone has to agree with this, I'm just explaining what it means in Scientological terms rather that in electronic wave lengths which is different subject entirely.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Mark Miglio wrote:"Dear Tony, I feel I should I say something about the Purification Program and its use of sauna and niacin, and its inclusion in the Narconon program as the basic self-improvement action in a similar way that the Church uses it as one of the first things a new Scientologist will do."

Similar way, Mark? You have been educated in  both programs so do tell. What are the specific differences between the Scientology  Purification Program and the  Narconon Sauna Detox component? 

I have studied both and there is no difference. Narconon is Scientology in all components. What you have are supposedly 'spiritual programs" sold as as secular parts - repackaged.

So do tell us the difference.

OTVIIIisGrrr8!
OTVIIIisGrrr8!

The logic of the Church of Scientology is brilliant:

1. 75,000,000 years ago all of us were exposed to incredible levels of radioactivity in a gigantic secret catastrophe. If I told you what the catastrophe was, it would turn on implants in you and you would quickly die of pneumonia. I don't want you to die so I won't tell you. Look at it this way: If your mother died in a horrific crime where she was beaten, raped, and violently murdered would you want to know all at once? Or would it be better if I broke the bad news to you in small pieces over time? And what if I helped you handle each small piece of bad news as I told it you? By the time you knew the full details that your mother had been beaten, raped, and violently murdered you would not feel as bad. You would only need to do some upper level handling of it. This is sort of how Scientology handle the upper levels -- and it all begins with the Purif. We are very gentle. There is no "prison ass rape" as happens in Psychiatry or here on Tony's Ortega's atrocious excuse for a blog.

2. Parts of you that you do not want to know about at present were contaminated with radiation from the secret catastrophe that happened 75,000,000 years ago.

3. The Purif (niacin + sauna) runs radiation out of the body. Therefore what is actually being run out of the body in the Purif are the invisible radioactive parts of you do not want to know about at present. These parts of you will not blow  when given gentle touch assists. But they will blow when niacin is used in a sauna. Think of it this way: A volcano is a hot place out which comes hot lava. The Purif is a hot place into which goes niacin. The Purif is the opposite of a volcano. It logically follows then that Scientology is the opposite of the secret catastrophe that happened 75,000,000 years ago.

4. There are deeper and more radioactive parts of you that require upper level Scientology auditing. These parts of you were exposed to the highest levels of radioactivity in the gigantic secret catastrophe of 75,000,000 ago.

5. Research conducted by the Scientology Science Dept has proven that  psych drugs make the results of the gigantic secret catastrophe of 75,000,000 years ago even worse. Taking psych drugs is the spiritual version of your mother and grandmother being beaten, raped, and violently murdered.

This is true. This is why, as a Scientologist, I have stopped at the scene of the accident and carnage that is Tony Ortega's blog.

I am the only one who can help.

I am a Scientologist.

LeeAnneClark
LeeAnneClark

Can anyone tell me if OTVIIIisGrrr8 actually means all this? Is he/she really a Scilon? Or is this a parody? I'm confused. The problem, of course, is that Scientology is so batshit crazy that those who make fun of it sound very much the same as the nutcases who actually believe it and defend it! This one is too close to call for me...

Clarkle
Clarkle

parody

Yeppir
Yeppir

From now on, sufficient response to the $cilon/FZ trolls: "POE!"

($cilos, see Wiki if you're permitted; Margaret/Marg Mesa - just STFU and go read Hubtard the Magnificent or get on the cans or something.)

LeeAnneClark
LeeAnneClark

Okay, I finally know what's going on here! It's Poe's Law in action! (Of COURSE I assume all of your crazy posts are parody, because no intelligent person such as yourself could actually believe that a low-tech lie detector can reveal exact dates of things that happened billions of years ago.) ;-)

LeeAnneClark
LeeAnneClark

Poe's Law! I LOVE it! I've never heard of it before...I guess I just don't hang out on message boards where people talk about religion. (Including this one - Scientology is, of course, not really a religion, just a batshit-crazy UFO-soaked cult based on warped science fiction spewed from the mind of a madman.)

At least now I know what to call it when I see it!

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

The exact number would have been determined by use of the emeter, using an auditing technique called "date and locate".  It's not perfect -- and not always accurate -- but probably better than just shooting from the hip.

wetanon
wetanon

Look up "Poe's Law". It's hardly unique to Scientology.

Prout
Prout

Yes, it is hard to tell, because Hubbard reads like a parody on himself if you were lucky enough to get an education. 

One consistent red flag is his laughable use of numbers.  He says things like, "it's a point of fact that the marcabians made an ingress 45,013,647 years ago."  That's seven decimal places, and totally ridiculous. Kind of like remembering the nanosecond of your wedding.  It just demonstrates a weak, although very inventive mind.  

LeeAnneClark
LeeAnneClark

LOL thanks for clearing that up! Honestly, those parodying the church can't sound any crazier than the Scilons, so it's kinda hard to tell. ;-)

Jgg
Jgg

  Logic of Scientology is an oxymoron, like jumbo shrimp, honest politician or Lebanese government.  Come to think of it, Church of Scientology is also an oxymoron.

Lenova
Lenova

Bravo!  Encore, encore!

Also, add to that the universe as dictated to us from Hubbard started trillions of years earlier than our respected astrophysicists conclude.  And the astrophysicists didn't flunk out of colllege, like Hubbard did.   Hubbard couldn't even do math.

OTVIIIisGrrr8!
OTVIIIisGrrr8!

Lenova: The God of the Bible tells us that he created the Universe 8,000 years ago. Are you going to make God and Jesus wrong because their time frames are off according to your insane wog science that kills babies with napalm? If you want to defend "science" killing babies then you must be evil. By actual survey of Theta decay particles using Scientology's Large Array E-Meter Grid in Trementina, the universe can be trillions of years old, 8,000 years old or some other age if you Theta Shift. This is like the Doppler Shift but it is more accurate down to .0000000001 because Theta decay is completely stable in all frames of reference.

Psyintific
Psyintific

Wow - I knew Dr. Hubbard was a respected scientist, and had his extensive research published in numerous peer-reviewed journals, but I didn't realize he had advanced science by such great bounds!  That Theta Shift research is really ground-breaking!  

I also think that, while it is useful to eliminate the thousands of parasitic space-alien souls that infect each one of us, it is even more useful that Dr. Hubbard was able to identify clusters of space-alien souls WITHIN the clusters.  Kind of like a russian nesting doll- very useful information!

hgc
hgc

Math, schmath. Hubbard said that the space planes were just like DC-8s, but with the difference being that they didn't have the engines with the "fans, propellers." The DC-8 is and always was a jet aeroplane. Hubbard couldn't get even the most simple, obvious and basic things right. How's he ever going to do math?

whosit
whosit

The Skeptic's dictionary has a nice write up about detox in the many forms, including the lack of data supporting sweat as a way to remove "toxins". It is the liver and kidneys (metabolize and excrete) which do most of the work of removing toxic substances from our bodies, including the ones we make during metabolism of our food. http://www.skepdic.com/detox.h...

And Mark, we all know that the only people who go into the psychiatry and psychology fields, only do it to have access to vulnerable people so they can abuse them. That is also why people become priests or join scientology. Generalizations can be hazardous to your intellect.

Dean Fox
Dean Fox

Church of scientology members speak of true freedom but to be truly free you have to have independance. Anyone in the thrall of an organisationan religious or not is not free because they conform to the leader(s). Marty Rathbun did an article on his blog about the word independant and in analysing the meaning of that word in true word clearing style he presented the knowledge that to be truly free you must be independant. All organised theiastic religions impose their dogma as a pre-requisit for inclusion in the group to some degree. Some do it more than others and some dogma is more benign than others. Dangerous corrupting cults like the church of scientology present extreme dogma with extrordinary pressure to conform. The problems are not the beliefs (even though they're usually whacky) the problems are with the organisations formed around those beliefs and how they are used, at the very least they demand financial or physical support from their members, some a lot more than others. Freedom is not necessarily being an atheist though rather it is being independant of any group form around form around a belief.

mjm
mjm

LA Times is a doing an excellent two part expose on Kaballah. Phillip and Karen Berg issued a very weak response.

None
None

I just read the article. The fbi's investigating them but they won't take time to look deeper into scientology? Man what's up with that??

Jgg
Jgg

  Probably because there are several private lawsuits re human trafficking; these require proving the claim by a preponderance of the evidence (51%).  For the govt. to bring criminal charges, they would have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt (99.99%).  So, let private parties enforce it.

Jgg
Jgg

  That could be key.  They may start the "but Scientology can do it" argument going again.

sketto
sketto

Hey Miglio,

Your "hope" that Lori knock off her suppression and rejoin her family is open acknowledgment that Scientology is the reason she can't see her own children. This is evil. Period. If you can defend this kind of immoral attack on families, then you are lost.

Now, I know that L Ron Hubbard himself started this disconnection, fair game and RPF evilness, but if you're not moral enough to realize that protecting people and families is more important than trying to explain Hubbard's harmful policies, then your moral compass is broken.

There is no reason to keep a mother from her children. Ever. Not even to protect Scientology.

As long as you think this way, I promise you this: you will have permanent enemies, willing to fight for the families that Scientology continues to fuck with.

Roggy McGee
Roggy McGee

I have a few questions about the Purif Rundown for anyone that can answer...

1.  Reading magazines in a temperature controlled sauna suggests that the saunas used are IR rather than steam.  Is Damian's report an accurate representation (I am only referring to the sauna part, of course!)?  In my mind, I always imagined Co$ using a steam sauna.

2.  In Reitman's book, she mentions people taking high doses of Cal-Mag.  When is cal-mag used versus niacin?  Are Scientologists doing the purif rundown told what they are taking, or is it more of a "here, take this pill" kind of thing?

3.  What is the justification or logic for using such supplements (beyond that "Source" decreed it)?  Niacin is such an odd choice of all the vitamins and minerals that are available.  It seems to have been drawn out of a hat at random.  Was it a very popular supplement in the early eighties when this procedure was established?

ScientologyAdvocateMarkMiglio
ScientologyAdvocateMarkMiglio

 Thanks Roggy.  If you are sincere write to me at Scientology Advocate gmail . com, or check out the book CLEAR BODY, CLEAR MIND. 

MarthaWiggins
MarthaWiggins

1.  Not steam, just lots of heat but I don't believe it is infrared (if that is what you meant by IR).2.  Cal-mag is not used "versus niacin".  It is just part of the vitamin/mineral cocktail that is required.  Doses of all the vitamins go up and up and up over time while doing the purif.  Yes, the people doing the purif know each and every thing they are being asked to take and they know the dosages.3.  Justification???  Nope, just made up BS.  Side note: in trying to find out if hubbard might have gotten this idea from Adele Davis, I discovered that she was considered to be the worst source for nutrition information at the time (60s and 70s).  My mother swore by her and made me drink the most disgusting concoctions.  There were multiple lawsuits against Davis and 6 figure out-of-court settlements.  Why hasn't anyone who developed serious medical problems sued co$?

Roggy McGee
Roggy McGee

Thanks sizzle8, Warrior, & CJM for clarifying.

I am very surprised that there are inconsistencies in the types of saunas used (dry/infrared vs. wet).  One would think that a religion whose name implies 'the $tudy of $cience' would have held constant the type of sauna across procedures and orgs.

I also would have guessed that Cal-Mag may have been used primarily in the Narconon version of the rundown while Purif Rundown used primarily niacin.  Two procedures, two different vitamins, twice the money.  "Make money, make more money..." as the Source intended.  I guess its twice the money with the same exact procedure, which is even more clever.

Although I am sure there are individuals like sizzle8 who have found the Purif Rundown beneficial (using the sauna was probably the beneficial part), forgetting the niacin, I can't imagine the havoc that Cal-Mag and cooking oil would wreak on the digestive tract. Yech.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Roggy, if one is following the Purif as developed by Hubbard, the sauna would always be dry.

(There are some in the alternative health field that have created variations of what they refer to as the "Hubbard detox method", and in those cases one will sometimes see implementations which use a steam sauna and/or an infrared sauna, and with other variations as well.  But the original implemenation uses a dry sauna.)

sizzle8
sizzle8

1.  They're steam saunas.  If you take a magazine in there, it will disintegrate pretty quickly.2. Both Cal-Nag and Niacin and other vitamins and vegetable oil are part of the stuff taken.  Participants definitely know what they are taking. 3. The niacin is part of a theory Hubbard proposed that it is useful in removing radiation.  The other supplements are to help "flush out" or replentish what is lost through sweating.

I did the program decades ago and found it worth doing.  That said, it can be pretty dangerous for some.  The medical oversight is usually non-existant.  How it is supervised can vary wildly from place to place.

OTVIIIisGrrr8!
OTVIIIisGrrr8!

Scientology has the largest digital printing presses in the world. We provide over 8,000,000 magazines per week for the millions and millions of new people who enter Scientology each week to read in the Purif. The Scientology magazines that get damp in our Purif saunas are recycled and re-used to print more Scientology magazines using psych-free inks.

Please be assured that Scientology has every contingency covered in the Purif. For instance, there are large signs in the Purif area advising users to write KR's on anyone who natters about the Purif.

We have Scientology personnel standing by in case of any problems in the Purif. There has never been a single reported problem ever with the Purif. If there ever is, we will handle it using whatever means we need.

If Tony Ortega did the Purif he would have at least 80,000 gallons of purple sludge and drug goo drip from his fetid pores.

skippress
skippress

Grrr, you mean those printing presses down in Commerce, CA? Even with the 10-mile long rolls of paper there, they don't have enough to print out "Suppressive Person declares" on all the FORMER Scientologists, which are 100s of times if not 1000s of times more voluminous than those still stupid enough to be involved. You didn't know where they were located, did you?  :-)

Warrior
Warrior

The sauna at the PAC Base was a dry sauna at the time I did the Purification Rundown.

NatteryNCG
NatteryNCG

I was told I was declared "Suppressive" over the phone, but I never received my precious "Golden Rod".  Being declared suppressive is very common.  You might feel different when it happens to you.

Scientia
Scientia

Gary, so Tony rips the piss out of some of the seemingly wackier aspects of Scientology. Big deal. Get over it. Scientology is not for everyone. Read the articles (and the comments here, for the most part) and you will see that the focus here is on the abusive activities of the Church of Scientology as an organisation. Reading Dianetics or Fundamentals Of Thought is not going to make anyone "understand" why David Miscavige, for example, orders the continual harassment of vocal critics (or those connected to them), or why friends and family members are threatened with expulsion if they don't sever ties with a "declared SP". You may not see any problem with these things but please understand something: you are in the minority. To those who can see, who observe, who have a basic ethical framework, these things (and many others) are simply not okay.

You may think you're going free, Gary, but the cost of your freedom (aside from DM's exorbitant, off-policy prices) is the sacrifice of another's.

MarthaWiggins
MarthaWiggins

Reading Dianetics or Fundamentals Of Thought is not going to make anyone "understand" why David Miscavige, for example, orders the continual harassment of vocal critics (or those connected to them), or why friends and family members are threatened with expulsion if they don't sever ties with a "declared SP".

No, but reading some of hubbard's  other books WILL make you understand the continual harassment and the threatened expulsion.  Shortcakes is just following in the master's footsteps.  HUBBARD wrote those policies.  Get it?

Jgg
Jgg

  Mark, Mike Rinder was physically beaten.  Why can't he just leave and be left alone?

Now Trending

New York Concert Tickets

From the Vault

 

Loading...