Scientology Responds in Typical Fashion to South Park Investigation Documents

KarinPouw.jpg
Karin Pouw loves the word "apostate"
UPDATE: Lloyd Kaufman confirms that he was asked about Trey Parker and Matt Stone by Scientology's Eric Sherman in 2006. And Mark Ebner adds further confirmation with his own leaked OSA document. Also, a private investigator describes sifting trash for the Church of Scientology.

As we've been reporting the last couple of days, a man who was once the second-highest ranking executive in Scientology, Marty Rathbun, has made public several documents showing that in 2006, the church attempted to dig up dirt on South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone.

Those documents come from Scientology's "Office of Special Affairs," which has long overseen the church's retaliation and spying operations. Rathbun himself oversaw similar operations during his many years at the top levels of Scientology, and another recent defector, Mike Rinder, led OSA for some 20 years before leaving the church in 2007.

Yesterday, a newspaper in the UK, The Independent, managed to get a response about the controversy from Scientology spokeswoman Karin Pouw. And in typical Scientology fashion, her response only makes things worse for the church.

First, a word about Pouw. She is doing double duty since chief Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis went into seclusion. Formerly a ubiquitous presence in television programs about Scientology, Davis has hardly been heard from since he went away earlier this year. (Longtime former Scientologists tell us that they assume church leader David Miscavige soured on Davis's work and has him under wraps at Scientology's secretive California desert headquarters.)

Pouw herself is well-known to regular readers of this blog. As I have written previously, in 1999 I had lunch with her at Scientology's Hollywood Celebrity Centre, and she got angry when I questioned her about the church's upper-level teachings, which include L. Ron Hubbard's assertion that Jesus didn't actually exist, but was a mental implant which the alien souls inside us carry around. Steamed, she eventually blurted out, "So what if we believe Jesus is a figment of the imagination?"

In recent months, I have repeatedly attempted to get Pouw on the phone about the stories we report here, but she never calls me back. She did, however, give The Independent a statement:

Dear Mr. Adams,

Thanks for contacting us.

I looked into it and the Church knows nothing about the document. It was put out by an individual who is an admitted liar and suborner of perjury. He probably obtained the document from Mike Rinder, his best good buddy.

Pouw has already screwed the pooch, and she's only a few sentences into this thing.

"They pretty much acknowledge the authenticity right there," Marty Rathbun said to me this morning after I showed him Pouw's statement. "They never said the document was forged or created. They wouldn't dare -- because that might lead to proceedings where I absolutely would prove otherwise. Lame."

You see, Pouw knows full well that until 2007, Mike Rinder was the executive director of the Office of Special Affairs, and oversaw every one of its operations -- which would include a 2006 investigation of the South Park creators. Rinder left Scientology in 2007. Rathbun had left earlier, in 2004. In 2009, Rathbun started his blog and began releasing internal OSA documents from the time Rinder ran things.

By accusing Rinder of being the source of the documents, Pouw only vouches for their authenticity. He is, after all, the most credible source of such material, since he ran OSA for about 20 years.

In July, we looked carefully at another set of OSA documents that had been leaked by Rathbun -- in this case, to Marc Headley, not on Rathbun's blog -- which showed that Scientology had carried out a complex operation to turn Headley's friends into spies for the church. We were able to confirm with Headley that the documents reflected what had actually happened, and we even were able to get one of the spies to confirm that he had been recruited to get information about Headley, just as the documents describe.

Pouw, in her statement, then describes Rinder in a rather stunning way:

Rinder is another apostate who was removed from his position in the Church for, among other things, his "fight people at all costs" tactics.

In 2009, Rathbun and Rinder both spoke publicly for the first time since leaving Scientology in a St. Petersburg Times series, "The Truth Rundown." Both claimed that they had left the church because church leader Miscavige had become violent and irrational.

Pouw here proposes a very different scenario: that Rinder was too rough in the way he ran operations at OSA, and had to be let go. (This is the first I've heard that version from the church.) It's hard to take that at face value, however, when both Rathbun and Rinder have experienced some of the most brutal retaliation in recent memory. Throughout this year they have been surveilled in their homes, followed in their cars, and have been subject to intimidation tactics designed to disrupt their lives and livelihoods -- all of which has been well documented here.

Rathbun was removed in 2002 and Rinder five years ago. The tales told by the sources of this story reflect the type of mindset that resulted in their removals and later expulsion from the Church. They've been spreading false tales to the media for two years and it is bizarre that they now bring up this alleged document. They are neither current nor credible sources.

All year, Rathbun has made public documents which show how OSA operates. He has many more he still plans to make public. This week, it happened to be about South Park's Parker and Stone. That timing might appear bizarre to Pouw, but it doesn't make the documents any less compelling.

Both sources have already confessed, in their own words, that the type of conduct they are referring to is exactly what was unacceptable to the Church, stating such things as, Rinder: "Bottom line is that I have had a totally criminal moral code and operated with a totally criminal mind attitude that I have not fully confronted (even down to lying about lying and doing illegal things)." And Rathbun: "When there is a threatening situation or suit, [I] get the [external affairs] staff and attorneys wound up toward 'destroying the threat.'"

Note what Pouw is doing here -- she is trying to hurt the credibility of Rathbun and Rinder by quoting them as they talk about how they operated while they were Scientology executives. The documents Rathbun has leaked, meanwhile, only go to confirm what they had said about themselves, that as church leaders, they were charged with attacking perceived enemies. Pouw, in other words, only provides justification for the behavior described in the OSA papers.

As to South Park, the Church has nothing to say. We haven't heard about the show in years. The record shows that since the show aired, the Church never did a thing.

You are being led down the primrose path by a couple of liars posting sensationalistic rumors on a small time blog. This isn't a story, I'm sorry.

Best regards,

Karin Pouw

And there you have it: no denial from Pouw that the church surveilled Parker and Stone, searched through public records and their trash -- and did the same to their close friends -- or attempted to put a mole in their office.

Scientology knows only one way: attack the critic. And once again, that's what they've done here.

We're only beginning to look into the OSA documents that describe Scientology's operation against South Park. I've seen several news organizations refer to our coverage and say that the OSA operation either didn't turn up dirt on Parker and Stone or that it "fizzled out." We don't know that, and we haven't said that. As soon as I have additional documents which describe what did actually happen to OSA's attempt to put a mole in the South Park offices or when it went through John Stamos's trash, I'll let you know.



The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


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152 comments
scilonschools
scilonschools

"Rinder is another apostate who was removed from his position in the Church for, among other things, his "fight people at all costs" tactics."

Having spoke to Mike Rinder at some length saturday, though not on this subject, i wouldn't evaluate him in that way at ALL.I found the guy an intelligent, open, sensative  and oddly genlte person , i clearly can't vouch for his actions in the past but i have seldomly been wrong on my personal evaluations of people.The CoS UK pickets, camermen and PI outside a quiet residential  property in the Kent countryside on the same evening did not measure up so well!!Besides an illegal activity in the UK (residential picketing) i witnessed them being abusive to a young teenage girl who just wanted to know what their problem was.... DISGUSTING!!!

Scott
Scott

Can we all be a tad bit more realistic here.  Put down the torches and pitchforks, folks.

First, I (like many other atheists) think Jesus is the figment of christian imagination also, so I don't really discredit Pouw for thinking that.  I think the author's attempt to discredit her for this indicates bias.

Second, we have no idea if that memo is true.  It very well could be, in which case scientology once again proves it sucks.  But considering that the people who released are bitter ex-scientologists with an axe to grind, who knows if the memo is genuine .  And ex-scienos are notorious for making stuff up and re-characterizing the past.  Neither side is to be trusted.

No one here knows for a fact if the memo is true and accurate, but everyone is ready to get the lynch mob going.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Relevant comment by Rinder on Marty's blog post about this article:

"Interesting that Tommy is not only MIA, Ann Archer was not present at the IAS event and did not host the annual charity concert as has been tradition."

XENU
XENU

So according to her OSA does not do these things anymore? Anyone heard of Anon Sparrow. They sent a PI to track down Radio Paul and clearly targeted Sparrow for Fair Game. Every time they get caught they just blame it on soneone else, say they reformed and then REPEAT.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Too often, journalists, like the ones in in the Twin Cities reporting on the conversion of a former science museum into a Scilon center, just seem to take Scientology's spokesliars at their word. It's like the Scilon director says they've "grown more in the last 5 years," than in the last 20, 40, 60, and they just drop that into the article as fact. Or, that the old Scilon building was bursting at the seams with overcrowded classrooms and they desperately need more space. Any interjection of words like "controversial" with little to no mention of how EXPENSIVE it is, just make it sound intriguing.

What a relief it is to read Tony's articles in comparison. Karin Pouw submitted a LONG response to NPR's interview with Reitman about her book, and without any comment from NPR, I was thinking only critics would read it. Other people might try to read it, but her letter is filled with boring and evasive BS. It was smart of NPR to include it as a download, not giving it any space on the web page.

It makes you wonder if the handful of new members they pick up from grand opening fever, will wonder what the heck is going on with the emptiness. Where's the journalist to report that story?

Media_lush
Media_lush

Oh Jesus, I hope they make an episode based on this..... How funny would it be to see DM and Cartman in a fight .... They're about the same size.

Mia
Mia

Question? Do you think the celebrities such as Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kristie Alley are aware of all of the bad press that Scientology has been getting lately? ( Thank you Tony Ortega) Do they live in such a bubble that they really believe that LRH bullshit or are they trying to save face? 

Dean Fox
Dean Fox

Got to love how the church of scientology does much of the leg work of confirming the dox, saves a lot of tedious checking, though evidence to the contrary always welcome.

THanks for the write up Tony.

Dean Fox
Dean Fox

It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out. I do know the church of scientology got Isaac Hayes to leave the show; of course they'll say it was Mr Hayes conscience but we all know how the church of scientology manipulates that.

Mike
Mike

Can't believe you 'idiots' buy into anything Rathburn says.  He is roundly villified in this forum and other similar "ihatescientology" blogs and forums.  Then when he "produces" something it is treated like it is "gospel"- truth.  You guys so want to believe everything.  But when faced with facts like the failed German commission, the failed Headley trials, the failed FBI investigation, Russia's feeble attempts to suppress despite an EU high court order, the supposed earth-shattering findings of the Aussie labor commission report, etc...These blog peices are chocked full of hearsay and "he said/she said" scenarios that they have no credibility or integrity.  The stories about the Sea org and the "low pay and impossible hours"?   Well that is how all SO "help want" postings begin. Even the freshest Scientologist "newbie" has a basic conceptual understanding of what it means to join the SO.  It is no secret.  In the meantime the COS is opening churches around the world.  this weekend in Inglewood.  That hotbed of prosperity in Southern California.   Tony how many PI's does the newspaper industry hire?  Google "private investigator" and you get 50k plus hits.  The COS is not hiring all of them and they are not all jealous spouses.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Potentially helpful headline from "AOL Healthy Living":

"Psychopaths Share Similar Speech Patterns When Detailing Their Crimes, Study Shows."

Makes me think of Scibots:

"All psychopaths might not be the same, but they share similar speech patterns when they recount their crimes, new research shows.

Researchers at Cornell University found that psychopaths lack emotion and speak in terms of cause-and-effect when describing their crimes, LiveScience explains."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Can't help but think of Marcotai.

Jgg
Jgg

  If Mark and Marcotai want to change the subject, why don't they identify someone Scientology has helped?

Meishayuri
Meishayuri

I think we should all work on absurd compositions and deposit them in Parker's and Stone's trash, this way the poor saps looting would have something interesting to read.

Jgg
Jgg

  Something tells me that this week will be downstat for the church.

deanfox
deanfox

The only thing they were successful in doing as far as I know is removing Isaac Hayes from the show because he was a scientologist. I gather he really didn't want to go but the church of scientology insisted as only they can and he resigned. Of course the church of scientology will say it was a personal decision of Mr Hayes' conscience after the show had aired but it's a crock like the disconnection policy.

Strato Head
Strato Head

funny then, if you believe Pouw, how the "alleged" documents happen to be VERY accurate, and very specific in it's details about Paker and Stone, and the setup of their studio at the time.

Geir Isene
Geir Isene

This is an intelligent dissection of Pouw's reply. Finally there is media taking an official CoS response apart paragraph by paragraph is such a skillful manner. Thanks.

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Ex members + media >  cult (Translation: Ex members plus media are greater than the cult)

Thank you Tony and all media who have published Scientology abuse history.

Karen Pouw, when her time comes, she'll likely retreat to Europe, her home.

It's a fact that former Scientology spokespeople speak out.   She seems NOT quite under the pressure and strain that fomer PR people were, she's NOT vying to replace Tommy Davis, who replaced Rinder, and Rinder took up that role only due to Heber Jentzsch falling out of favor, and before Heber there was Vaughn Young (went public) and Laurel Sullivan Watson (went public).

So there is a history of the ex PR spokespeople going public, if they've been ground up a tad too much by the movement.  

Karen's the type of personality that seems unlikely to wise up, and unlilkely to also be trounced on and scapegoated unjustifiably internally, she's got a personality that Miscavige just hasn't chosen to attack and blame like Miscavige attacked and blamed and scapegoated everyone else.   (A study all its own, in unhealthy bureaucracies, of who survives and keeps up the lies, and who gets out and exposes that bureaucracy's lies.)

Thankyou Media   !

Chuck Beatty, ex Scientology bureaucrat, 1975-2003

DuckBenway
DuckBenway

And, she spreads just like butter.

TonyOrtega
TonyOrtega

Thanks for the comment, Scott. But by the time you posted it (on Thursday) we already had confirmation from Lloyd Kaufman that he was pumped for information by Eric Sherman, just as the OSA documents describe. We also had posted confirmation from Mark Ebner that a similar document leaked by Rathbun from the same period about his own OSA operation checked out fully in its details. And we earlier did the same checking of another Rathbun-leaked OSA document that described a spying operation targeted at Marc Headley. In that case, we even talked to one of the spies directly, to confirm the contents of the OSA documents. At this point, Rathbun's documents are batting a thousand, and Pouw has yet to say anything truthful in her career. I say that not out of bias, but out of experience.

MissCabbage
MissCabbage

You say, "And ex-scienos are notorious for making stuff up and re-characterizing the past.  Neither side is to be trusted. No one here knows for a fact if the memo is true and accurate, but everyone is ready to get the lynch mob going."Can you possibly be THAT ignorant?  Scientology made up LOTS of "stuff."  Fake "Anonymous" postings on YouTube, fake documents to have critics framed, falsifying and re-characterizing the past of their founder, L. Ron?  How can you possibly accuse ex-scienos of being dishonest?  BTW, read the article.  Karin did not say they are fraudulent.Speaking of "lynch mobs," how about the army of private investigators unleashed on critics?  Relentless harassment of ones who have left?  I speak of Marty Rathbun.

I rest my case.

MarkStark
MarkStark

I think Alley and Cartwright feed off the controversy. It makes them feel more conviction. Cruise and Travolta are in a bubble. For a while, it blew up in Cruise's face, but now he thinks it is handled.

One of the mind-boggling ironies to me is that Cruise could pretend he doesn't really remember Marty Rathbun, when not only did Marty audit him, he was also the person Miscavige sent to "recover" Cruise what he went through his WTF Xenu period.

How could Cruise not be interested in what Marty is up to?

sketto
sketto

Great rambling defense of nothing in particular, Mike. No sense in staying on one topic for more than a sentence, huh?

For your blind defense of Scientology despite the facts, we award you: 50 Miscavige points.

Geir Isene
Geir Isene

It is interesting to see that you here extend Peow's tactics, underliningthe very point of the article. No rebuttal of the content of Rathbun'spostings, but instead the usual Argumentum ad Hominem - attack thecritic... something that would give a yellow or red card in soccer.

Calling someone a liar does not make their statements less true.

Your reply contains generalities embellished with adjectives that servesto paint yourself as emotionally upset and a tad irrational.

The Scientology response template includes not only a rabid attack on thecritic but also to serve the reader with the notion of an expanding Church. But since the Church has ceased to focus on helping people, what is left is expansion of real estate. Empathy, warmth, creativity andfree will no longer matters. Matter matters. Brick and mortar, bling and posh.

If I were a rabid critic of the Church, I would perhaps have served up a response like yours right here.

candace6
candace6

By opening churches I'm sure you mean expanding your brutal leader's real estate portfolio.  Those "churches" are empty the minute the "grand opening" is over. Your "religion" is despised or mocked around the world, with a rep big tobacco wouldn't envy. I don't know who you think is buying the "expanding like never before" bullshit.  I personally can't wait to see what Marty releases next.And why does a "religion" need a dirty tricks department anyway?

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

One thing's for sure—nobody is buying your bullshit here.

Did you wander in here by mistake. or are you simply masochist? Following orders? 

You're in the wrong place my friend.

Mike
Mike

So you can "hear" his "speech" patterns in his writing?  What a dolt!  When you read something you are doing in your own head, in your own speech patterns! 

candace6
candace6

That's easy. Scientology helped Lisa McPherson and Elie Perkins and Steve Brackett and Rex Fowler and Noah Lottick and Kyle Brennan and....oh wait.

Marcotai
Marcotai

Take that "something' out of your ass.LOL (it's just humor)

Stella
Stella

So Nice to see Geir commenting here!  He knows the CoS drill, but was never even remotely involved in the cult's a-religious activities.

Jgg
Jgg

  Chuck, as to who survives, read Dilbert comics.  Among other things, everyone is twice as smart as the person managing him.

Scott Braden
Scott Braden

Not really familiar with any of those guys other than Rathburn, who I know is an ex-scieno.  But, again, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the memo was real and they were trying to dig up dirt ... that's kind of scientology's thing.  But even if true, it's not illegal by any means to write a memo about your critics or attempt to dig up dirt.  Politicians do this all the time.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott Braden
Scott Braden

MissCabbage, you said, "How can you possibly accuse ex-scienos of being dishonest". Please allow me to explain.

The rule is that we are all responsible for our choices.  This standard applies to everyone. No one has a free pass to avoid the consequences of their bad choices, including scientologists.

For example, some female scientologist, with full knowledge of scientology policy, will choose:  to get an abortion because she wants to stay in sea org, to give up her life and family for scientology, to disconnect from family members, to perform work voluntarily without any reasonable expectation of payment.  While these are terrible scieno policies, they are perfectly legal.  

A few years down the road, she becomes disillusioned with scientology and leaves.  But now she is penniless and has no job or career.  Her entire life was scientology, and now it's in ruins.  She regrets ever joining and all her past choices. She is broke, alone, and angry.

So what does she do?  She claims that she was "brainwashed" into making these bad choices. The bad choices now magically turn into "abuse" and she turns into a "victim".

You see, by saying you are "brainwashed" you are basically saying "It's not my fault." You are trying to carve out a special exception from the rule that we are all fully accountable for our own choices. But here's the thing, "brainwashing theory" (also called "thought reform", "mind control", and "coercive persuasion") is a REJECTED scientific and legal theory. Seriously, look it up if you don't believe me.

This is why lawsuits like Marc & Claire Headley get dismissed.  This is why unpaid labor claims by Australian ex-scienos get dismissed. This is why ex-scieno criminal claims rarely get prosecuted.

Please, don't get me wrong, I think scientology sucks.   And I think some ex-scienos are telling the truth about crimes. I also think the wrongdoers should be fully punished if proven in a courtroom.

Anti-scienos, however, blindly and unquestionably rely on the words of ex-scientologists like the divine gospel ... and then they act upon them like a lynch mob. That's why i consider anti-scientology to be just as paranoid, sheepish, and fanatical as scientology.

Mia
Mia

Amen sister!

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Anyone defending Marcotai must have been pithed—you included.

Writing is all about tone. It's all about the "Authentic speaking voice" and "Authorial authority."

Your posts are all about robotically following the "Party Line." Anyone sensitive to "tone" can "hear" that.

Are you too insensitive or stupid to understand that? Is your reading experience THAT limited?

Jgg
Jgg

  It's not in any part of the body.  It's a statistic showing that the Flat Earth Society had more activity last week than the "world's fastest growing religion."

Yeppir
Yeppir

First, it wasn't funny.

Second, NEVER explain a "joke." (What you are calling humor.)

/end protip

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

In the Sea Org bureaucracy, when we did "submissions" which were our on paper proposals for this or that program of forward progress, we weren't allowed to cite anyone but past Hubbard writings.

Internally, the Hubbard principles rule.  

Karen's playing by the rules, and she has not one iota of "CI" (counter intention, or hidden or sub-conscious) counter intention to Miscavige, she's a pro sychophant, a nice enough worman, but in Miscavige's mind, if you are in his "good" category, you are sorta protected.

The sickest details of the Sea Org life pecking order under Miscavige will only be told when more ex members get more literate enough, and break away more.

Karen's in a uniquely respectful, seemingly sincere attitude, towards Miscavige, and that is ALL that counts.   She's also NOT likely to be promoted to the Int Base, remember, Karen is OSA Int, and even though she's done her fair share of globe trotting PR spokesperson work, she's fluent in French, she's done plenty of visits to EU over the years, but she's NOT in line to be the chief church spokesperson.

Were she thought of as being head PR person, if for real they headhunt her to be DM's go to PR person, she'll inevitably slip up, and as time rolls, she's likely build up enough small and more major mistakes, and like Tony points out, what she's said to him alone, which he's quoted, more mistakes when she's on camera, and she'll crash and burn in time, just like ALL of the best PR spokespeople for Scientology.

I think Mike Rinder and all the former PR people deserve a big thankyou, those who go public, and tell what it was like. It is an impossible job.

When a person's personal sincerity dries up, due to one seeing one has lied just TOO MANY times, and they realize they've told too many lies for the unprincipled and lying leader of Scientology, it just weighs too heavily, and I applaud all the ex leaders who finally got out and spoke up!!!!

I hope Karen someday embraces Mike, and apologizes. It's sorta human nature to eventually come around.

Mike and Marty, you have to realize, they are doing WAY more than the whole earlier crowd, the old Guardian's Office staffers, the Jane Kembers, the David Gaimans, the "old" crowd, that hid their heads in the ground, when the GO went under in the 1980s.

Naw, this Scientology cult bureaucracy has had a greater toll on people's "souls", the old Guardian's Office members, only a rare few of them (Mike McClaughry is the BEST) had the mindset to expose their deeds.

I'd love to see the old Guardian's Office people come clean like Marty and Mike have so far.

I'd love to see Shelly Miscavige and Pat Broeker make an effort to reconcile all they've been through, under David Miscavige, by going public about it.

DuckBenway
DuckBenway

Introversion Tech is FAIL. You FLUNK, ThetaMan. Flunk BIG Time!

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

I will suck to be you when it comes time to paying for and doing those sec checks you are surely going to get for being on the internet in conversation with labeled 'SPs" .

ThetaManisKing!
ThetaManisKing!

Thats right Chuck, You gave up on the Church!! its no ones fault but yours!! The Church didn't "fail you" Chuck, you couldn't hack it, you couldn't keep your ethics in, in other words Chuck you're a WIMP !! you will never help man-kind, you are a failure Chuck, you are going to die in pain, in the dark and alone. And that makes me happy!!!

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Call me and test me, 412-260-1170.   Look up my freewebs site of postings.   I did 27 years in the Sea Org, 1975-2003.      I run the 866-XSEAORG phone advice line.   Call me, test me.   Email me.    My freewebs posts tell why I gave up on Scientology, because it does NOT deliver the spiritual rewards and instead Scientology/Hubbard church policy blames the customers or blames the staff members when Scientology fails.

I reverted to atheism after the slow process of mainly watching the slow drain of the best most dedicated members who chose to leave the Sea Org before me.  

When I was at Author Services Inc, and earlier when I was in Senior HCO Int, I multiple times got to see the "Ex Sea Org/SP" list.   

By 1995 the "Ex Sea Org/SP" list had grown to over 26,000 names.   That means people who broke their Sea Org contracts and hadn't yet reconciled back with Scientology sufficiently to be considered "in ethics" enough to be invited to Author Services Inc classic  Hubbard readings, where at ASI they hold regularly these readings monthly today.

I'm pretty certain that the legal head of ASI, Ryland Hawkins, is still requesting to see that updated "Ex Sea Org/SP" list which Senior HCO Int keeps, monthly, to ensure that people who are NOT considered in good graces are invited to the "Classic Fiction Readings" they do at ASI of Hubbard's pulp stories.

The list of the pissed off dedicated Sea Org members who are NOT considered in good graces is greater than the average loss of staff (the 5 to 1 ratio that LRH says is "normal" in policy).    Meaning LRH expected to lose 5, to retaining 1, in staff recruitment.

For the Sea Org, the loss is greater than the 5 to 1 ratio.  

A good "expert" comparison of Scienotlogy's health, is compare that cumulative  loss of Sea Org staff, to who they have at any given moment in the Sea Org.   

Advanced accurate demographic surveying of Scientology's recruitment of staff, and their other statistics, which they proudly keep, but they keep those statistics to themselves, are only analyzed privately in their "evaluations" which their top ranks (Middle management personnel might do a tiny amount of these evaluations, but the Int Base top councils used to have the "Evaluation Corps" of staff of a few expert evaluators to do the international trend evaluations, and proposed handlings) these top ranks evaluations, which are in their files at the Int Base in Gilman ot Springs, would tell the truth.

There is a massive paper trail in the official movement's hands, of their growth and frank internal admissions of their weaknesses.   Lots of people, ex members, have been part of the whole internal evaluation history.   Depends on how high up the Sea Org pecking order, and to what degree you spent the time reading the church's internal evaluations and detailed handling programs, over the Sea Org's almost 45 year old history.

In Marc Headley's book, one of the buildings labeled on the map of the Int Base has the paper files, all neatly stored.    And the Scientology INCOMM computer system and the OSA Int computer system, are loaded with their internal unblemished conclusions about themselves.

I'd gladly tour you through those paper files, and the INCOMM and OSA Int computer systems of files and statistics and history,  if they'd let us.

Chuck Beattyex Sea Org 1975-2003

DuckBenway
DuckBenway

Have you seen the mofo's youtube channel? Hilarious!

Give power-tools to retards and what do we get? Non-stop Comedy!

At the rate these morons like Marcotai, Margaret and Miglio are going, they could very well find a place on the next top 25 cripplers list. They are living examples that the cult of scientology makes people very, very stupid.

sketto
sketto

That is a very good advice. And surely, we all are in the needing of that advising. But now I have an advice being of for you, Marcotai:

You can foul some of the people some of the time, but you can't foul all of the people all of the time.

sketto
sketto

Marcotai, when I read your posts it scares me to think that Scientology has so thwarted your education that you can't go two sentences without writing something that makes no sense, is spelled wrong, has no syntax or grammar, or is full of repetitious exclamation points and capitals.

I can't imagine how educationally backward all those kids who've been raised in Scientology are if you are an example of Scientology's effects.

William Burke
William Burke

Thanks marcotai, your hate-rant is the equivalent to a "highly recommended" from a sane person.  Anyone wanting to see what upset the Church of Scientology, just google "Ask the Scientologist" to find me.  Interestingly, marcotai has never even seen my site - he doesn't even know what its called.

Just Bill

Gallusgill
Gallusgill

chuck could you please stop fouling the nice people in here! But please feel free to foul as many of the scientologists as you like ....

Thetan-X
Thetan-X

I will "foul" as many $cientologists as i wish Marco, and you cant stop me.... I am "fouling" you right now, you douche-bag.

candace6
candace6

Just drives ya crazy that Bill spent  30 years in the cult, got out and now exposes the truth, eh Marco?  AktheScientologist, what an awesome blog!

Anna Asks
Anna Asks

Marcotai, if you can "out" Chuck Beatty as an impostor who has never been a Scientologist (Co$, that is), I will "like" every single one of your comments for the rest of 2011.

Must have dox that are not sourced from freedomwatch.org.

Jgg
Jgg

  Chuck, is Karin a "pencil-pusher"?

Jgg
Jgg

  Keep yourself off alien implants, Marcotai, and you will be able to think critically like everyone else.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

There's no drug quite like brainwashing, shit for brains.

"An Advice"

For fuck's sake—you actually think you're impressing or intimidating us? Are you honestly that stupid, that numb? That fuckin' crazy?

Yeppir
Yeppir

You are foul, you fool.

And, pray tell, what are you pretending to be? Bacteria? Fungus?

Marcotai
Marcotai

Keep out yourself off drugs, that's what you really have to worry right now.just an advice.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

". . . Please, you may foul some people in here, but you can't foul REAL Scientologists. . .'

Obviously—we have to allow them to foul themselves, as you just did.

Keep Scientology Fucked Up!

Marcotai
Marcotai

LOL.Chuck. i have never seen a pretended "expert" of CoS, like you.Of course you can con people in believing what you are saying or pretending to be.LOLOLOLOL.There is a webblog called: "Ask to a Scientologist", ran by an impostor (Just Bill) who is pretending to have been in SCN for 30 years! LOLOLOLOL.I mean, don/t you guys have something else to do in your life than faking your background?I can easely expose your real you, just like I did with Just Bill, by asking a simple question regarding SCN!Please, you may foul some people in here, but you can't foul REAL Scientologists.

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