Scientology Hates Clean Ice, Part 2: Another Target, and the Web as Weapon

IceWater.jpg
Checked your cubes for bacteria lately?
On Wednesday, we told you about a Scientology "Fair Game" operation that seems beyond the pale: the church, known for its vindictive treatment of perceived enemies, is accused of harassing a business to keep it from bringing to market a potentially life-saving machine for hospitals that produces bacteria-free ice. Why? Because the company employs a former high-ranking church member that Scientology now considers a threat to its existence.

In that first story, we talked at length with Robert Almblad, the machine's inventor, a man who spent 35 years in Scientology but was never a high-ranking official, and after his departure from the organization in 2007, never publicly criticized the church. Two years ago, after he hired Mike Rinder, Scientology's former chief spokesman, Almblad came under intense surveillance and interference to his business by a longtime Scientology private investigator and his squad of cameramen and bodyguards.

Today, we're bringing you another side of the story: a woman who has been slandered online, followed, harassed, and says she can hardly believe what she's been through.

She says Scientology has targeted her for utter ruin. And yet she has never had anything to do with the church.

Susan Clickner is Robert Almblad's girlfriend and also an employee in the company bringing the ice machine to market.

She began dating Almblad five years ago, and her work in his firm began before he hired Rinder. She had nothing to do with Rinder getting his job. (In fact, I got the distinct impression that the two of them aren't really what one would call friends.)

Clickner is a woman who has helped an inventor with a potentially life-saving machine, and has her own name on various patents for her contributions in engineering and design.

SusanClickner.jpg
Clickner
"I'm actually a builder. I'm a licensed Florida builder and designer. I met Robert actually doing some work for him. We got along great, and he asked me why not try designing things with him. So I began doing some design work for him, not for pay, and I really became enthralled in the technology. My name is on the patents. It's become my whole life," she told me by phone yesterday.

"I knew that Robert had a background in Scientology, but he never really wanted to talk about it that much. He didn't want to influence me. I picked up a book at one point, but it was just a snooze to me," she says, adding that his Scientology was never an issue between them.

"Nobody knew that he was a Scientologist. He wasn't active at all. He didn't go to meetings or structured activities at all. He just knew some people who were in, and that was the extent of his interaction with it," she says. But it was only a few months after Rinder joined the firm to handle public relations that "the heat got turned up very high," Clickner says.

As we pointed out last week, Rinder was a high-ranking executive in Scientology who oversaw the church's intelligence wing -- the Office of Special Affairs -- that handled intimidation campaigns aimed at critics and former members. Rinder once oversaw those kinds of operations for church leader David Miscavige, so he wasn't surprised when he became the subject of the same schemes once he began to speak out against Scientology. He's watched as Almblad has been targeted by the same private investigator, Dave Lubow, who Rinder once used to work with. After Almblad hired Rinder to help market the ice machine, Lubow appeared at Almblad's door, and then began going to his neighbors, asking if they had seen Almblad committing any "crimes."

"Then we were followed," Clickner says. "I was followed absolutely everywhere I went. Doctors appointments, everywhere. They were just around at all times. At the beginning it just seemed ridiculous. They even bent down with a camera to film me picking up dog poop.

"But then it started to get serious. I was actually prohibited from buying a home. I put $600,000 in a bank account, and they caused trouble at my escrow account, and they prevented the owner from selling to me," she says. It turned out that the house she wanted to buy was owned by a high-level Scientologist. "I was a cash buyer in an absolute buyer's market, and they turned it down. It was sold a few days later for about $50,000 less than what I was offering.

"They also went to my title company, and they went to a woman there and said, 'How do you know how she got the money? How do you know she's not involved in drug traffic to South America?' The woman panicked and told me she needed to get my money out of her office. She made me come that minute and pick up a check. They can push people to hysteria.

"I lost my down payment. I did an inspection fee. I hired architects. I had a survey. I lost I would say, $20,000 or $30,000 on that," she says.

"They even harassed my attorney. They called my attorney to ask if I was committing crimes. I mean, are they serious?"

A reminder: Clickner has never been in the church of Scientology. She has never publicly criticized it. And her only "crime" was designing parts for a life-saving piece of machinery.

"They called my family. They called my ex-husband. They knew how much money I had in the bank -- how, I don't know -- and they asked him where I got it. The craziest thing you can think of...actually, you can't think of things they've done to me. And of course the interference with our business has been unbelievable."

As we wrote on Wednesday, Scientology's operatives have gone to extraordinary lengths to disrupt Almblad's attempts to have meetings with companies that might be interested in his ice machine. At one point, during a meeting with a company Almblad had done hundreds of thousands of dollars of business with previously, Scientology operatives burst into the meeting and claimed to be doing an investigation on Almblad. After that, the company refused to do more business with them.

"We had the top guy in an $8 billion business reprimand us for 45 minutes because of Scientology," Clickner says. "He was saying, 'We can't have this show up to our house. My wife will leave me if I have protesters show up at my house.' We now have it in writing from the company that they can't work with us. We're kooks, just by osmosis from Scientology."

Their only recourse, she says, is to use more secrecy as they try to do business with other companies. "We travel with throw down phones, I absolutely won't go see certain people because they will be there. I can't see my mother. If these guys jumped out of the bushes at her, I know she'd have a heart attack.

"You know they're not going to hurt you, you know that. But they yell at you from behind you, they find a way to scare you," she says. "My niece -- my 98-pound niece -- had four men -- two cameramen, a bodyguard, and Jim Lynch running after her. They followed my nephew at his bank and filmed him at his ATM machine.

"I have two friends who I used to go out to dinner with at least twice a week, who no longer call, who won't answer an e-mail. Nothing. Because they're so afraid of these people. They don't want the risk of these people coming down on them," she says. "I've lost friendships. I know my business is affected by this every day. We have this beautiful laboratory that we built to bring large corporations to, and it's completely ruined. I can't meet anyone there. I have to travel across the country in secret and use assumed names. That is just a giant impact."

She's seen the way Lubow and his "Squirrel Busters" have been mocked (here, for example), but it's not really very funny when they're targeting you.

"They may act like the Keystone Kops, but they actually have a serious impact on people's lives and their businesses," she says.

Still, despite the constant interference, Clickner thinks their machine will succeed. "It's very good technology and it's absolutely needed. We were asked to do this. Companies like McDonalds want this very badly. We're talking to one hospital chain that has 127 locations, and they know they have a problem. And this is a very fast answer to a very serious problem. On the technology's merits, it will succeed."

Online, however, a website proclaims that Almblad and his business is shady, and that Almblad has a history of defrauding victims. It offers little proof except for the letter that Almblad sent out last year to close a key-making business in Europe that had stalled.

I asked Almblad who he thought could be behind the website.

Almblad feels pretty certain about that after he and Susan saw that one of his former employees turned up in the Scientology squad that burst into the meeting with Manitowoc, the multi-billion-dollar company that he has long done business with.

The man had worked for Almblad for years as an engineer at a firm trying to spread automated key-grinding machines in Europe. (Almblad had previously had big success with similar technology here in the U.S. with another company. He sold out his interest in it years ago, and recently that company was sold for $850 million. The subsequent European venture wasn't as successful; orders from their European partner stopped and Almblad's company was idle.) "We closed down the company because we didn't have any more machines to build. Everybody essentially got laid off because we didn't have any more work to do. There were three years of no work."

After the engineering employee left -- apparently without rancor, Almblad says -- he went to Los Angeles, and then everything changed. "Suddenly here he comes, ragging on me about shares and investors, and I wondered where it came from. Then I heard that he had joined staff at Scientology while he was in Los Angeles."

There was little doubt about that when the employee burst in with Jim Lynch and the other cameramen and bodyguards during the meeting at Manitowoc. (I am attempting to reach the former employee, and until I do, I am keeping his name out of this piece.)

"None of my investors, none of my other employees had anything to do with Scientology, except for him. I had just a handful of investors in a $10 million business. There were no lawsuits after I closed the business," he says.

"Every time he's contacted me, I've asked him to put in writing that he's not working on behalf of David Miscavige or the church, and he's refused to do it."

Meanwhile, the website trashing Almblad showed up.

"I know the church is behind it. Just by what it says. There's no one with the motivation to put up that website except the church. I don't have a single disgruntled investor or employee," -- except for the former employee who had joined the church.

One of the things the website points out is that a former employee of Almblad, John Broadbent, is being sued by a previous employer for taking with him his company laptop computer and transferring its files to his home computer before he left. The company -- one that Almblad himself had worked with for years in the past -- makes allegations that Broadbent was intent on taking trade secrets with him.

Almblad himself and his Safe Ice company are not named in the lawsuit. "The lawsuit has nothing to do with me whatsoever, and it has nothing to do with my technology. There's definitely no issue between me and this company. This is a billion dollar company. If they had a problem with me they would sue me in a minute," Almblad says.

As we pointed out Wednesday, Almblad also had to travel under an assumed name, Robert August, in order to make a secret meeting several states away. He and Clickner called themselves Robert and Susan August, and the company's website was changed to reflect that.

Here's how the anti-Almblad website characterized it:

Of course, if we've learned anything from our experience of doing business with Robert Almblad, it's that NOTHING is ever as it appears. I mean if we believed everything their public relations guy, Michael Rinder, put up on the website, we'd think that the CEO of "Safe Ice" is "Robert August" and that the Creative Director is his wife "Susan August". I mean just because the photographs are actually of Robert Almblad and Susan Clickner is no reason to suppose that they're trying to hide their identities or to pull a fast one is there? I'm sure that PR guy just made a little mistake.......... right?

The web material worsened, meanwhile, when Almblad happened to do a search on the terms "Almblad" and "Manitowoc." He found an odd page: a press release that appeared to be put out by another company he had done business with, which talked about Almblad and his ice technology. At the top of the page, it had the title, "Jackson Middle School Math." That was odd enough, but interspersed on the page were repeated uses of the same phrase: "Live Sex Chat."

Almblad says it made no sense. And it scared the hell out of him. No computer expert, he hired one to investigate it and give him a report. That expert told him it was worse than he thought. Not only had someone taken a company press release about him and spread links to "sex chats" around it, but the sex chats were about underaged children -- and the page itself was hosted on the server of the Orange County, Florida public schools system.

I called the media relations office of the school system yesterday, asking them if they were aware that their server had been used to produce a slanderous page about Robert Almblad that included links to chats about underage sex.

They seemed rather surprised to get my call. They immediately took down the page, thanked me, and they are considering whether to share with me the IP address of the person who created it.

Meanwhile, the expert hired by Almblad, looking at the "sex chat" page, the links from it to various spam-heavy sites, and the page that was created to cast doubt on his business past (robertalmbladscam.com) came to this conclusion:

"All of these websites offer content management system blogging (CMS) powered by
Wordpress, and most of them are designed for the generation of spam. Because this
is the same style that the robertalmbladscam.com website, I think that the creators of
these sites are the same."

Well, maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. Someone has come up with a website raising a lot of leading questions about Robert Almblad right at the same time he, his girlfriend, their extended family, friends, and employees, and their company, are being besieged by longtime operatives for the Church of Scientology, apparently for the sole reason that Almblad dared to give a job to a person who criticizes the church.

As longtime church critic Dennis Erlich put it in our comments section the other day, a Scientology harassment campaign can have many collateral victims besides the critic or defector it is aimed at. (And he certainly experienced that himself.)

After Susan Clickner herself showed up in our comments on Wednesday, I wanted to speak with her directly to make sure her experiences were noted.

But she also pointed out, despite the difficulties, she is still completely dedicated to her work, and still finds that work itself enjoyable. "I've invested five years of my life in what Robert does. It's really great fun," she says.


The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology] | [Commenters of the Week] [Thursday 2pm Stats!]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]
[Lori Hodgson and Disconnection: "No one's going to take my eternity away"]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]
[Philip Boyd, Saving Grace actor, rips "the business that is Scientology"]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]
[Aussie former rugby pro Chris Guider calls David Miscavige "toxic" and "violent"]
[Stephen Cox, UK church newbie, pledges 20K pounds] | [Biggi Reichert: A German Lisa McPherson?] | [The Birmingham trove: 7,000 internal e-mails]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]
[Scientology High School, Dating and Super Powers!]

My Voice Nation Help
141 comments
Diana Maras
Diana Maras

Wow, those Scientologists are completely nuts. Out of curiosity I did a web search on this poor guy's last name and right at the top of the results page is the website they created soley to bash this guy. Absolutely amazing.

Peter Söderqvist
Peter Söderqvist

Soderqvist1: Marg Mesa you claim that Armstrong manipulated the truth!Or truth out of context. But this is only a desperate attempt by you to hold on to want you desperately want to believe in. The evidence is that you cannot, and have not for the same reason followed the court proceedings and pointed out falsehood, which the court obviously (according to you) have failed to do. Do you also claim that various witnesses in the proceedings lied under oath meanwhile the court find them credible? Can you point out where they are lying? Btw, the verdict was affirmed 1991.Robert Vaughn Young was a witness for the Church and this below is what he has said afterwards!

1994 I, ROBERT VAUGHN YOUNG, declare as follows: PURPOSE OF THIS DECLARATION

1. I have been retained as a consulting expert by counsel for defendants Dr. Uwe Geertz in the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL VS STEVEN FISHMAN, ET AL.

J. AUTHORIZED HUBBARD BIOGRAPHER AND ARCHIVIST.89. In 1981, I was asked to go to a non-GO archives to gather information about the writing of a biography on Hubbard. The archives was operated by Gerry Armstrong and contained about 25 filing cabinets full of Hubbard's personal papers and memorabilia. I worked there for several weeks and was the last person to see Armstrong before he disappeared. I thereby inherited the archives by default and continued to read Hubbard's private papers, which gave me not only an entirely different view of the man than what we had been telling Scientologists but a view that no one else knew (at that time) besides Armstrong.

O. EXPERT WITNESS ABOUT THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY ON BEHALF OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY DURING THE ARMSTRONG TRAIL.103. In 1984, after Gerry Armstrong was sued by the Church of Scientology, David Miscavige assigned me to do key research into Hubbard's life to refute Armstrong's claims that Hubbard had lied. With a team of full time people working for nearly two months (compared to Armstrong working by himself), we found additional information to challenge some points Armstrong had made. I was to testify as to what had been found.

Soderqvist1: note the above “some of the points” not all points!

RVY Update by RVY THE HUBBARD ARCHIVESLet's start in late 1981, when I happened to acquire the archives that contained Hubbard's private papers. (These were the ones that Gerry Armstrong started.) The truly essential material came down to perhaps 15 linear feet of paper. Over the months, with nothing else to do, I had a chance to read private letters, papers and manuscripts (including the three, yes, three, versions of the infamous Excalibur, which has to be the most overblown piece of hype he EVER produced and, no, it has NOTHING to do with OT3), which also gave me the full uncensored view of this man. I read everything from love letters to (and from and about) his mistresses, his girlfriends (such as Fern, who gave him the clap, forcing him to secretly take sulfa), his private pornographic ramblings (he liked to draw penises and vaginas around the margins in red ink, which gave the page a grisly look), his black magic material, his letters to family, wives (in the early 1950s, while having mistress Barbara on the side and at the same time preaching about the dangers of illicit relationships), editors and even to himself, as journals.

There was one problem with what I read. It didn't match what we (collectively then, meaning the organization) were saying about Hubbard and what Hubbard, based on what he had say to say. When I tried to gently point this out, the Shinola hit the fan. It didn't matter that it was in Hubbard's own hand. It didn't match the story he put out so — straight out of "1984" — it didn't exist. (These documents were later confiscated and sealed away to make sure no staff see them but enough of us did — including a few still on staff (hi, guys!) — so it can be verified someday, if it comes to that. But that is another story.)

Miranda
Miranda

This is what has been necessary--for someone with a voice to stand up for people who are being harassed by CoS. Thank you for outing this despicable dead agenting attempt.

Peter Söderqvist
Peter Söderqvist

Soderqvist1: Marg Mesa what half truth and lies do you have in mind?The Court proceedings is approximately 10 thousand pages and the Intervenor Mary Sue Hubbard and her lawyer Mr: Litt have the original Hubbard Archive in the church. They have read it including Hubbard’s Affirmation. Gerry Armstrong got his Copies from Omar Garrison who had a contract with the church, and could do whatever he wanted with the copies except that L. Ron Hubbard had the last word regarding his biography!

1916 -1917 MR. LITT: Yes, those are the documents that Mrs. Hubbard listed as extremely personal.

THE COURT: I have a little trouble in here stating that they are extremely personal to her. They might be extremely personal to him.

Page 457 - 459 Mr Litt: extremely personal journals kept by Mr. Hubbard which speak to his innermost thoughts and which are part of the early bodies of self-research in the development of Scientology and Dianetics which have not been published and which he has never provided to anyone until Mr. Armstrong took them and gave them to Mr. Flynn.

Page 344 - 345 MR Litt: our general objection that none of these documents should be introduced, but we do not intend to fight this case with one hand tied behind our backs. We are going to designate documents from among the sealed documents of our own which will conclusively establish the fallaciousness of this defense, which will conclusively establish how private these materials are, which will conclusively establish that sending them to Mr. Flynn has no reasonable relationship to any allegations which were made by Mr. Armstrong, and we intend to designate such exhibits and present them, and would need the time to do that.

Page 350 - 351 MR Flynn: With regard to the request for continuance for two weeks, the defendant objects but with regard to the itemization of the documents, the plaintiff is prepared to spend a day going through the documents that are relevant and segregating those documents so that either the court or the plaintiff in intervention can see specifically what documents are involved. As far as the designation of documents by Mr. Litt, they have had the documents in their possession throughout the period of this litigation. They have also come into the court, I understand from Miss Dragojevic, on numerous occasions and itemized and catalogued every document. So, with regard to what documents they intended to introduce in evidence to show an invasion, I submit that when they filed the suit and made a claim for invasion of privacy and then filed a readiness to go to trial, they had access to all the documents and should have known specifically at that time what documents they intended to use.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Peter,   Hubbard made all the documents freely available to the biographers with the hope that they would all be put into context with the rest of his life and his life's work.  He didn't expect it to be turned into a circus by Armstrong.  If Hubbard had wanted to hide some personal or embarassing part of his early or pre-dianetics life, he could have easily had the documents destroyed.  But instead, he handed them over freely.  Now why do you think he would do that?  It's simple -- he hoped for an honest and thoroughly researched biography.Every time you jump to the defense of Armstrong -- as you are doing above -- you play right into his manipulation and propaganda.

Zander
Zander

Hubbard didn't realise the extent of the documentation that Sea Org member Armstrong had stumbled across and, at the time, neither did Armstrong. The last thing that Hubbard wanted was an honest biography.

It's interesting to observe the hostility of the Independent Scientologists at Gerry Armstrong from simply telling the truth.

 

Zander
Zander

Don't be upset Marg Mesa, Marty Rathbun and some other "Independent" Scientologists, will someday write a biography of your beloved El Ron that will make you and the other Hubbardies happy.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Gerry Armstrong didn't tell the truth -- he manipulated the truth.  He used shocking truths out of context to effectively create propaganda.  And he did it after Hubbard knowingly and freely allowed him to help with an honest and fair biography of his life.

That is the full truth that you and Armstrong are afraid to confront.

Lenny
Lenny

It's interesting to note that Dr. Hubbard's quasi theories about consciousness and religion are patently wrong, at least if the greatest religious and spiritual minds of the last few millenia have anything to say about it.  His spirituality can be boiled down to "clap your hands in my face, see if I blink." Uninformed, and very pathetic. 

Shame on CoS
Shame on CoS

Going to the Press is good.  Do more of it.  And record these guys from your cell phones and post on Facebook and YouTube.  Exposure and shame.  Also, lobby Congress for better anti-stalking laws.  A lot of folks are rather neutral on Scientology but would easily be persuaded against them with knowledge of this kind of harassment and vengeance.  Are they all stuck in grammar school?

Endscientologynow
Endscientologynow

OK, Tony.  THIS type of background/source checking is what I expect from you.  Sorry to have doubted you before.....I believe you now.

An Indie
An Indie

Zander...." I know that the Independent Scientologists are in deep deep deep denial...."

There you go with the big wide brush of yours again. I'm an Indie and I DESPISE the fact the Hubbard authored those abusive policies. I know other Indies who feel the same way. Scientology as a subject, and it's organizations needs deep deep reform, and yes I also agree, it wouldn't be "Scientology" anymore if this was accomplished one day.

My opinion is shared by others and these statements can be found easily on various websites where Independent Scientologists are speaking out.

The reason we LEFT the church (at no small risk to ourselves, our families, business, etc) is because we DISAGREED with the BS. That was no easy thing to do.

Zander
Zander

As ex Independent Scientologist, David Mayo, has stated, the first step is thinking "it's the organization" that's the problem. Next comes, "it's some policies," and then...

You're on step two, so keep going. Eventually, you'll wake up in the morning amused at the idea that you ever went around calling yourself a Scientologist.

Then you'll have graduated.

Inevitably, almost all do.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

LOL.  Some of us apparently got a lot more out of Scientology and Hubbard's philosophy than you did Zander.

But I guess if you went in as a slave and left as a slave, the "Constitution" probably never meant that much to you.

Dave Rhodes
Dave Rhodes

LOL from the wiki "Sequoia University was an unaccredited higher education institution in Los Angeles, California which acquired a reputation as a prolific "degree mill" selling degree certificates. Although it was shut down in 1984 by a court order, it is most notable today as the institution from which L. Ron Hubbard obtained an honorary "Doctorate of Philosophy" in the 1950s.In 2009, Britain released documents from a California agency stating that Sequoia was never approved nor recognized as a school.[1] British State papers then revealed that in fact Sequoia University was personally owned by Hubbard and that Hubbard had therefore awarded himself his "Ph.D""

Dave Rhodes
Dave Rhodes

www dot youtube dot com /watch?v=gfeRJ4JBEHc

DuckBenway
DuckBenway

So you've been conned. So what? You like being conned and are entitled to every moment of blissful satisfaction you obtain from being conned.

Doesn't much matter to me, except when entities like you show up, spewing your apologist screed while hiding behind walls of deceit, denial and cowardice.

When this happens, my tendency is to call bullshit. So here it comes - I think that you're a cowardly, deceitful sack of shit, floating around in a deep river of denial. I hope you drown in it.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Yeah, a "pathological liar" that accepted an honorary degree from Sequoia University right alongside other well-respected professionals who did the same; and a "pathological liar" whose VA records show that he was legally blind at the end of the war, and was able to recover based on what he could learn about the mind.

You know who the real pathological liar is?  It's Gerry Armstrong:  the manipulator and propagandist who used half-truths and blatant lies to convince a court that Hubbard lied.  If you want a good look at a blatant liar and charlatan, have a good long look at Mr. Gerald Armstrong himself, a primary source for the biographies on Hubbard.

Zander
Zander

It's not about me; and it's not about you.

It's about the thousands of people who trusted L. Ron Hubbard and who lost their fortunes, their children and, some of them, their lives and, some of them, their sanity, to Scientology, all while thinking they're on the "Bridge to Total Freedom" and to "Operating Thetan," and contributing to the "Only hope for Mankind."

Your guru was a pathological liar, and was even recognized in court as such.

Can you at least "get" that this is not about *you*? But mainly about *other people*?

For every Scientologist such as yourself there are 1000 Ex Scientologists.

Grow up.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

I don't blame you, Zander, for not getting out of Scientology what you hoped.  But many of us did, and then some.

Zander
Zander

Just so there's no mix up. I was responding to Marg Mesa's "slave" comment.

An Indie
An Indie

And good luck to you sir.

Zander
Zander

Playing the "No Case Gain"-angle. That's not very imaginative.

You do appear to be a follower of "Hubbard's Philosophy."

Good luck with *that*.

An Indie
An Indie

I call myself an independent insofar as I use whatever I feel is useful. I disregard the rest. Hubbard did a good job of shooting himself in the foot. True the culture that grew up around the movement amplified much of what has become generally noted as deplorable, but I can call myself an "independent" without getting wrapped around the term "Scientologist" I'm not a Hubbard apologist. A card carrying ISA member/ "in good standing" robot I was never cut out to be, so don't lump me in with them.

I never graduated because I was never onboard "on the same terms as they rest of us".

Zander
Zander

The culture didn't "grow up," it was designed by Scientology's founder. Nonetheless, good for you for never being sucked in.

Old OT7
Old OT7

It's official!  The cult of scientology WANTS innocent people to die so the psychotic dwarf can feel better about himself. 

Attention:  Internal Revenue  Service!  WTF are you waiting for?   If you do nothing, this is going to come back and bite you in the rear.  The longer you wait, the worse this country will think of you.  Unless, of course, you're happy being the  cult's bitch.

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

Question.

Did Hubbard ever write or say, in one of his lectures....

"I am a Scientologist"

Just wondering.

jana moreillon
jana moreillon

This is an accurate representation of Scientology's Fair Game Policy. In the past, they got away with their Fair Gaming and ruined a lot of peeps. Thank God for the Internet and Thank God for Tony Ortega.

challenge

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

For Mr. Amblad & Co.

Sir, if your device does and is what you say it will do.... save lives.

I have two words for you.... Bill Gates.

His foundation would very much want this... if it performs.

LocalSP1
LocalSP1

What I hate about this is that scientology gets to use it's own version of Sharia law. If they feel  they have been wronged they get to decide on how they will proceed against their enemy and what the punishment should be, the WOG laws be damned. That is unless WOG law can be used against the enemy.

Empress
Empress

So this is how a church uses its tax free dollars?

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

While this topic might seem a million miles from St. Petersburg, note that U.S. law officials no longer regard the claims of status as a high-ranking "Spiritual Authority" within a religious order as automatic immunity from law enforcement.

" . . . The prosecution alleges that Finn "had reasonable cause to suspect a child may be subjected to abuse" by Father Shawn Ratigan, a priest from Independence, Missouri, who was indicted in August on 13 counts related to child pornography. Finn "had reasonable cause to suspect a child may be subjected to abuse due to previous knowledge of concerns about Father Ratigan and children," . . ."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/...

This give me hope that Miscavige will soon receive similar treatment.

candace6
candace6

If the mainstream media would cover this story (and others) it would go a long way towards stopping this despicable, vile organization.

BennyShackleford
BennyShackleford

Two thoughts:

1) I'll never understand how some of this behavior doesn't qualify as stalking, or something worthy of police intervention.

2) As terrible as it is, I can't help but see some humor in this. Company hires PR guy to market machine. In doing so, company sets off a series of events resulting in a marketing nightmare and making the machine nearly impossible to sell. Talk about having the exact opposite effect of what you're supposed to accomplish...

Brett Allen
Brett Allen

Great story! It's amazing that the Church of Scientology isn't bring investigated by the FBI - - -  WTF? These guys are insane and menace to society1

mjm
mjm

apparently they were (as Lawrence Wright's article hinted), but the cult has friends in Congress, including Greta Van Susteren's "hubby" (methinks they both play for the other team)

candace6
candace6

Not that there's anything wrong with that....

Hank1994
Hank1994

Sometimes, I find myself thinking about these jackass Squirrel Busters and wondering how they have the balls to go around behaving the way they do in public. Then I remember how these people pay for "training routines" where they take turns berating and staring at one another. L. Ron Hubbard must have been a genius.

hgc
hgc

How do they do it? Here's how:  All the people whose opinion they care about are also Scientologists. Everyone else whose moral judgement might have put a pause in their bizarre and despicable public behavior has been disconnected. 

Hank1994
Hank1994

Good call. I just have a hard time believing the authorities can't find a way to step in and put an end to this criminal absurdity.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

It was heartbreaking to read this story. I am not a lawyer but every time I read of one of these situations, I wish I were. It make me so darn frustrated that no one has yet come up a plan on how to legally address these bullies, this organized mafia type of intimidating criminal behavior.  I believe there are protections under the law and that once documented, this cult and it's henchmen can be held accountable. Florida's RICO ACT laws may apply to this case, as they are more expansive then the federal RICO act. California and Colorado may as well have similar avenues. Just looking at what is being done from the perspective of how the mob or a major gang operates,one can see how the laws can apply. 

On a federal level, interference with and manipulation of customers of a targeted business in interstate commerce is a serious crime. 

Those blogs, against Marty and these people,  they are proliferating with abandon and nothing is being done about it when something can be done. Wordpress can be court ordered to reveal names, IP addresses, from which names can then be gotten from internet service providers by subpoena. Its a start. If these crooks know that one is not doing anything about them and their harassment, they will continue to harass.

Lastly, Lubow and crew need to be given restraining orders bigtime. Get 2 or more in different states and you have your pattern documented by the courts. I bet that judge in TX who was conned into signing that arrest warrant would not mind signing one against Lubow

F_Randy_Hullabaloo
F_Randy_Hullabaloo

Maybe someone can arrange for GWAR to 'take care" of this whole mess.

ScientologyAdvocateMarkMiglio
ScientologyAdvocateMarkMiglio

 You too can protest.

If you are interested in the story of Scientology, this is not the blog to read.  I would ask you to consider the possibility that there is an anonymous circle of public commentators to this blog that have mentally imprisoned the author, Tony Ortega, into some sort of matrix that has the earmarks of a covert, hypnotic brainwashing operation.  It is for this reason that I protest. 

We can be thankful that there is a like-minded community of spiritual people that resists the conduct of individuals, groups, and organizations that toil daily to discredit or destroy all good people and decent organizations. 

Today this anonymous circle endeavors to discredit Scientology; tomorrow they may very well successfully tear down your religion. 

If you have become concerned or upset after reading any part of Ortega’s article or the comments in this section, here, you will find numerous sincere people with whom you can talk to and address your concerns at any Scientology church, mission, or Dianetics center.  You may find it more convenient to send an email query at our premier website:  Scientology . Org.  You can send a written request for information to the Office of Special Affairs, or any staff member at our local organizations, or to the International Executive Director at the Church of Scientology International, 6331 Hollywood Blvd., Hollywood, CA  90028.  You are invited to tour any church, peruse our books, and attend a lecture or Sunday Service.  Free introductory courses are available at: Volunteer Ministers . Org.  Local public libraries usually carry Dianetics and Scientology books or eBooks in their systems.  When in Hollywood, you can visit the L. Ron Hubbard Exhibition Center on Hollywood Boulevard.  I am not a staff member but I will do my best to provide you with any gentle advice and simple answers that you may need and want at: Scientology Advocate @ gmail . Com.

Old OT7
Old OT7

 "We can be thankful that there is a like-minded community of spiritual people that resists the conduct of individuals, groups, and organizations that toil daily to discredit or destroy all good people and decent organizations."

Problem is, scientololgy is anything but a decent organization.  It is a vile, ruthless, family destroying, member enslaving, financial ruining, vicious and militant cult that sometimes kills its  members and causes them to commit suicide.  Your reputation is just a shade above Jonestown.  Really, Mark, the world hates your cult.  AND FOR GOOD REASON!

Old OT7
Old OT7

Mark wants innocent people to die because  his cult is bent on destroying an invention that can actually save lives.  Hmmmmm.  This is what they call the greatest good for the greatest number.  Your cult is on a par with Jonestown.

I hope this story goes global.

LoyalOfficer
LoyalOfficer

No, I don't need to waste my time and money on a science fiction cult posing a a religion.

You want to start a dialogue? First admit that the story of "Incident One" ("Thetans" creating the universe) and Incident 2 ("Xenu/Xemu" blowing up aliens on Earth, then programming them at huge motion picture theaters with the "R6" implant which forms the basis for the three major Abrahamic religions, and finally releasing them as "Body Thetans" which later attached themselves to humans causing all sorts of problems for their hosts is the basis of $cientology. Admit that "auditing" is used to exorcise the "Body Thetans" at great expense to the victim of the cult scam.

Why can't you tell prospective cult members this information? It WON'T cause pneumonia or any other ailment, this has been proven time and time again. Won't you engage in a scholarly dialogue about the archaeological evidence of the advanced population on Earth the cult claimed existed 75 million years ago with many more billions of beings on Earth then than there is now? You know Mormons have Mormon archaeology... Where is the $cientology cult archaeology?

You won't. You can't. None of this nonsense happened. There is no archaeological evidence, there is no evidence of any kind other than that this is a pure fraud designed to scam people out of there money. I am concerned that this is a dangerous cult that victimizes people. Let's address the issues without science fiction nonsense.

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

We do have Hana Eltringham Whitfield, who participated significantly on the "Mission Into Time" book mission that Hubbard ran in the late 1960s.   She can be consulted, and others who were on that mission and know the results, dismal results as expected, but spun as proof of Ron's wonderful past lives memories.   A sad facet of official Scientology, which is one of the cognitive dissonance points that lead finally to someone exiting the official movement at least, is the "brain drain."   The constant, decade after decade, cyclical exiting of the highest most trained and formerly valuable staffers.   Hana is a case in point of a late 1960s era through late 1970s era top Scientology official, plenty of facetime with Hubbard.  

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

I'd suggest that those who are the most "emotionally disturbed" on this whole subject are the ones -- three decades later -- making propagandist claims that "it's all a con" and a "bait and switch" subject.  Despite all the objective evidence to the contrary.

Zander, you hate Hubbard's guts. It's clear from nearly all of your posts.  And your inability to face your own hatred is clouding your judgement of the subject and its developer.

It is indeed time to face the truth.

Zander
Zander

I know of no one who had face time with Hubbard who "hates" him. Hubbard is regarded as an emotionally disturbed person, who died alone while hiding out from his mostly invisible enemies.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Anecdotal Zander.  You and I have no way to know how many "facetime with Hubbard" people loved him and hated him.  It's fair to say that there were plenty of both.

Zander
Zander

Most people who had face time with Hubbard have opinions of him that you won't like. It's too late to make them go away, although I'm you'll keep trying.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Sure, Hana is one case in point.  But there are plenty of others that had even more facetime with Hubbard, who to this day strongly support Hubbard's philosophy and practice auditing (though have left the cultish organization behind).  Ken Urqhart is a prime example.  Karen de le Carriere is another.  Otto Roos. Ralph Hilton.  Many others.  And Hubbard's family with Mary Sue supported him til the end, even if under Miscavige's control.

Regarding "Mission Into Time", personally I always thought it was amateurish and really didn't prove/document very much in any objective sense.  But Hubbard was doing it for his own edification, I thought, and so that's how I approached it.  I never gave it much weight beyond being anecdotal, but I respected his willingness to give it a try.

Zander
Zander

Hubbard's "Incident 1" isn't "thetans creating the universe," it's an IMPLANT.

Old OT7
Old OT7

Great post, LO!  Geologically, this is NO EVIDENCE of volcanoes being blown up.  AND, in OT3 it states that our planet, known  as Teegeeack, had a population of 250 BILLION people.  You'd think there would some evidence of that too.  But, alas, there is, of course, NONE.

The Church of Fictionolgy...

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

LoyalOfficer,  The metaphysical idea that the universe was created as a "consensus reality" eons ago is fairly central to the philosophy of Scientology and is available in the widely published books/lectures for Scientology, written betwen 1952-1956.  One doesn't need to jump to "confidential" 1967 (OT3) to read about such theories.

And of course, there would be no "archaeological evidence" for a "consensus creation" of the universe (except for perhaps something like Schrodinger's Cat and the paradox of quantum physics), so it may be a bit difficult to prove objectively.

And peoples' "past life memories" (many of which rival the Xenu story) and "entities in and around the body" have been discussed and publicly theorized about since the Scientology books/lectures of the mid-1950s as well.  In my book, the Xenu story is Hubbard's past life recollection -- I've always felt free to agree/disagree at will. 

But to a large degree, I agree with you.  The "church" made a huge mis-step when it made a big deal out of the Xenu (OT3) story getting out.  It would have been much smarter to just ignore it.  In fact, that is exactly what Hubbard did when he broke with mainstream (dianetics) thinking and started openly supporting/discussing the existence of a "human soul" and past lives in 1951 "Science of Survival".

BD
BD

Hey Mark,

I'd like to tour the RPF facilities in LA, or Hemet, and chat with the participants.  Also would like to shake hands with Shelly Miscavige, and a brief meeting with Heber Jencsh, your President.  Can you arrange these for me?

Bernd Bernington
Bernd Bernington

Oy. A written request for information to the Office of Special Affairs, you say?

I think I just had an idea.

NCSP
NCSP

"I would ask you to consider the possibility that there is an anonymous circle of public commentators to this blog that have mentally imprisoned the author, Tony Ortega, into some sort of matrix that has the earmarks of a covert, hypnotic brainwashing operation."

Yes, that's a rational, 100% plausible explanation that I'm sure lots of non-Scientologists will find compelling. It's not in any way a bizarre, creepy fantasy that could be read as a symptom of clinical paranoia. You're doing great things for your cause.

hgc
hgc

If you think that your body is infested with clusters of invisible little bugs that have been dead 75 million years, and that confessing your sins to an interrogator who watches for variations in your galvanic skin response will clear out the bugs and give you out-of-body experiences in the bargain...

... then, yes, you might think that that explanation is compelling. 

Paranoid delusion is built right in to the system. It's the sine qua non. 

LRONHOOVER
LRONHOOVER

HUBARD WAS A CARPETBAGGER HE WAS A JUNKIE A LIAR A CHEAT A FRAUD AND ON ONE OCCASSION I SAW HIM MASTURBATE IN FRONT OF CHILDREN THERES YOU EFFING MESIAH

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

"By the way, Ingo Swann, after leaving Scientology - when he could speak freely - described the OT levels as 'disappointing,' but liked the Lower Grades."

In my circle of Scientology friends in the 70s, we spoke very freely about our opinions of the grades, training and the OT levels -- both good and bad -- including views similar to your recollection of Ingo's.

However, Ingo's an intelligent outspoken guy -- so no offense intended, but I'll take Ingo's own words (including at his own current website) over your own interpretation of your recollection of them.

Zander
Zander

Marg Mesa: This thread is over. Thanks for showing what a Hubbard cultist you are.

By the way, Ingo Swann, after leaving Scientology - when he could speak freely - described the OT levels as "disappointing," but liked the Lower Grades. He also praised the methods of the Monroe Institute and others, that had nothing to do with Scientology.

Despite the exalted spiritual state you claim for yourself, you are just another venom-spewing Hubbard cultist. 

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Zander wrote: "At the age of five he was a natural psychic."

Zander, *everyone* is a "natural psychic" at five and most have some type of ESP or out-of-body experience as a child.  The point is:  how did auditing or the OT levels impact Ingo's ability to control them, i.e. operate as a thetan, independent of the body.  Here is what he told an editor of ADVANCE! in 1973 (age 39) regarding this exact point:

-----------------------

ADVANCE!:  How would you describe the abilities in Scientology terms which you have had occasion to publicly demonstrate?

INGO SWANN:  Thetan interaction with matter, energy, space and time; bypassing the body.

ADVANCE!:  How did these abilities develop with relationship to your auditing on the OT Levels?

INGO SWANN:  They are solely the result of auditing. Not particularly even the OT Levels.  I had good gains on the lower grades.  And some had developed certainly by the time Power Processing took place.  But steady good control over them, the control I have now -- which is not perfect by the way -- occurred after completion of OT III Expanded, and is even better than ever now that I have finished OT VII.  So they are solely the result of auditing.

----------------------------

Ingo re-iterated the above opinions in another interview in 1978 with ADVANCE!, and also mentioned how important the Scientology Briefing Course training was in helping him "truly become operational in the psychic sense."

Ingo later left the church in the early 80s, but continued his auditing at Mayo's center in the mid-80s.  Today, Ingo says on his website with regard to Scientology (paraphrased): "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".

Which is exactly the position that every Independent Scientologist I know takes.

p.s.  If you don't want people to think you consider Scientology "all bullshit", then stop being such a propagandist with weasel-word claims that Scientology is all "Hubbard's bait and switch".

Zander
Zander

I have *never* said or written, "It's all bullshit."

I knew Ingo Swann way back before he became an Ex Scientologist.

At the age of five he was a natural psychic.

Scientology promised gains and abilities that it did not deliver. Hubbard wasn't just mistaken, he knowingly lied. 

You can't confront that.

OK.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Zander, "operating thetan" was always about having successive "transcendent soul experiences".

As far as the "DO things -- objectively" ... If you truly want to be objective about it, then look at the objective studies/tests that have been performed.  Because your anecdotes about "it's all bullshit" are no better than my anecdotes that "there's a 'there' there".

So if we're truly being objective about it, then the only scientific, objective test of "OT abilities" -- that of Pat Price and Ingo Swann -- was conducted in the 1970s/1980s, and the results were remarkably good -- good enough to get Price hired as the "star psychic" by the intelligence community, and to give "ESP research" annual government funding for nearly two decades (and probably to this day, if the firsthand reports of "still classified" are to be believed).

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

LOL!  "Rewrite of Crowley..."   

Is there really any more evidence needed that you have no clue what the core of the Scientology philosophy and auditing system are about?

Zander, I don't mean to minimize the cult experience that you had in Scientology.  From all indications, like so many others, you became involved with something whose underlying philosophy you never grokked.  To you, it became a "personality cult", where every utterance of Hubbard's became something to worship, to hang on to and had equal value to every other (just like hundreds of other fanatical Sea Org zealots). 

When you snapped out of it, you assumed that everyone else just went through the same thing -- and now you grasp for straws trying to understand why so many others (some very intelligent and experienced critical thinkers), decades later, are still strong supporters/users of auditing and the underlying philosophy, sans the organization.

Please don't take this as an offense, but comparing Hubbard's "Factors" (and Axioms, presumably) to Crowley is laughable.  But it does give an insight into your own "cult experience", so for that I'm grateful you put it out there.

Zander
Zander

And don't take that personally, but Melton is a cult shill and makes his living being paid $$$ by destructive cults - like the Japanese poison gas cult - to shill on their behalf, with just enough "criticism" included to maintain the pose of being an "objective expert" or "scholar."

Zander
Zander

Your guru, Hubbard, made millions, and "smashed" his "name into history" selling the state of "OPERATING THETAN." One would be able to DO things - objectively - in the "MEST" universe, without need of a body. It was even the top level of the "Grade Chart" for many years. Of course, it was a con, and was - inevitably - replaced with new age mouthwash such as, "transcendent soul experience."

The proof that the brainwashing works is that Scientologists think Hubbard's bait and switch on them is just fine.

Pathetic.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

A "transcendant soul experience" is in fact a pretty fair way of describing the whole thing to me.  I would argue that just having it "explained to one", while certainly useful, doesn't get one there -- but depending on the person explaining, it can be a large part of it. 

An individual does need to work at it (via auditing) to truly get something out of it ... but describing auditing and learning the Scientology philosophy as giving one a "transcendant soul experience" is as good a shorthand description as any that I have seen.

Zander
Zander

Gordon Melton doesn't care what you think. He's just stringing you along.  

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

"....there's no there there....."   

References I repeatedly bring up:   Time Track Bulletin Number 1,  of 1963; "The Factors" of 1953 or 54;  LRH ED 339R Int of 1982, LRH ED 342 Int of 1982).In a nutshell, the transcendent spiritual states at the “top” of the Hubbard “Bridge” are the “….there…..”     Become indoctrinated sufficiently, or have a well versed Scientologist be your mentor guide to the Hubbard trail, and you get a simplified and better “answer”.

Find a chat site where candid highest level Scientologists (OT 8 people) frequent,  try to politely ask them what they feel they achieved, and ask them about "Native State."

Some OT 8 people have told me they can mentally balance their thoughts (this is my interpretation of what they've told me) so that they have this peaceful transcendent experience, and they are very satisfied with having spent all their money and years getting to that "....there...."

The "....there...."   of Scientology is a transcendent soul state

I don't believe in the soul, so I am not motivated to sell the Hubbard Bridge. 

But that's why Scientology always says"   "Come in and find out for yourself!"  

Most official churches today botch the selling job, being staffed with inexperienced and kowtowed leftovers who are best criticized on Marty's blog, and as covered in Jeff Hawkins’s must read book for experts.   

The independent Scientologists aren't shackled by the official movement’s fascistic  penalty system.  

Freezone and independent Scientologists don't bludgeon and blackmail each other with Hubbard's excommunication tactics nor the other controversial official church parishioner control practices.    

Official Scientology is a feeder system to the independent Scientology freer community.

Hubbard were he alive today, wouldn't be happy with that.   

Hubbard's "handling" for splinter groups is institutionalized harassment and legal steps that Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun know well.   Because Hubbard institutionalized these splinter group handlings, he‘s laid down what he himself labeled “timeless tech“ that he himself ordered be maintained.    

That could change, and official Scientology could go milder instantly, if they chose.   One of Janet's book's major points.   I wish they could.   It would take quite a leap of cognitive dissonance out of the Hubbard official movement playbook though.   

I ran my hopeful argument that official Scientology could reform by Gordon Melton, 3 or so years ago, and he feared official Scientology doesn't seem likely to change, based on the past.  

So this splinter independent/freezone Scientology movement looks like “cutting edge” Hubbard Scientology, in that it has gone ahead and done instinctively what official Scientology seems incapable of doing, which is drop the fascism, and behave way more mildly and acceptably, how official Scientology ought to.   

The “…there….” is soul improvement leading ultimately to what Hubbard says in the above references I listed.

Zander
Zander

Another person hypnotically enchanted by Hubbard's rewrite of Crowley. 'The Factors! Ooooooooooo!' 

Scientology only succeeds as a cult. Outside of Scientology, the trance gradually wears off, and people become "wogs" again.

For most but hard core brainwashees, the condition of "Independent Scientologist" is a passing phase as the person leaves Scientology altogether.

Marg Mesa
Marg Mesa

Well, I disagree with you on a number of points NCSP (and you as well Chuck).  The underlying scientific evidence that now exists in the scientific literature for consciousness existing separate from the brain (ala the "human spirit") is very convincing, and Hubbard's paradigm for it -- as defined in the "scientology axioms" and "factors" -- imho, is brilliant.  (For the scientific evidence, I would suggest readers study the work of Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker, as well as Rupert Sheldrake and the various experiments conducted by SRI, SAIC and a number of universities/institutions which work[ed] to falsify/verify the earlier research.)

While I agree that Dianetics "written for the masses" as it were in 1950 comes across as odd today in 2011 with it's "attempted abortions and wife-beatings" -- two very real facts of life for those that lived through the first half of the twentieth century -- I think the underlying concept and framework was sound.  The new science of epigenetics, for example, has since the mid 1990s confirmed the long-derided idea of "Lamarckism" which Hubbard was using/supporting as early as the 1930s.  (To get a less for-the-masses outline of the early subject of dianetics, I'd recommend Hubbard's "original thesis" from 1948.)

The main problem with Scientology has not been the underlying ideas, theory and practice of auditing, imo, but the cult/organization that grew up around it -- and eventual strong emphasis on money, stats, etc.  And indeed, a number of Hubbard's policies -- many now very anachronistic and some ill-conceived imho -- are a large part of the problem.  But it would also be foolish to not recognize that many Scientologists (particularly of the independent variety) are in favor of updating/cancelling many of those policies -- and/or  finding a means of organizing the practice of auditing that doesn't lead to a sociopathic, incompetent cult.

NCSP
NCSP

I didn't mean the thetan thing so much as I meant what's in Dianetics. I give a pass to people who encountered it in the fifties, or as kids, or people who get roped in with the quasi-hypnotic euphoria of the comm course, but that book is so flimsy and nonsensical -- even offensive, with all the attempted abortions and wife-beatings -- that I really have to wonder about an adult who reads it ("in a new unit of time," as it were, ha ha) and thinks there might be something to it. Ditto with LRH's other books. His ideas aren't even interesting as metaphors for how the mind works or what 'human nature' is, like Freud's work is. As Gertrude Stein said, "There's no there there."

And it's not that I think people who see something in Hubbard's writings are stupid, really, at all...it's something else that I can't quite articulate, maybe just an inability to read critically. (Something the Study Tech reinforces.)

I will say that leaving Scientology seems to smarten people up pretty well. Maybe they get smartened up and that causes them to leave. Some of the analysis of Hubbard's writing that I see in parts of the ex community is as perceptive as any I've seen elsewhere. Your posts in various places, for example, are consistently trenchant and enlightening. (And I'm not saying that to be a kiss-ass, I've thought that for some time.)

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

No worries, it's not harsh.   Not to me.   Because there's a whole lotta people on earth buying into the spirit, into God, into spiritual abilities.   Hubbard came across as one who was dumbing it all down, with some razzle dazzle carnival pulp pizzazz adventurous style that is his.   Who believes in the soul.   A whole lotta people.   Body thetans are just souls without bodies, that infest human beings' bodies today, leaking their mental garbage.   I don't buy souls today.   I did buy souls, when I was in Scientology.  

I think the solution for independents, the big cheezes, is go live in Hamburg, and set up shop there as independents.   Go to EU.

America can be bought and sold, that's the bottom line.   In EU, they wouldn't stand for this stuff.

What an irony.   EU people hundreds of years ago fled to the US for religious freedom.

Now pipsqueak cult fake religion Scientology games the US where everything is about the dollar system, and my choice would be go to a country that WON'T let Scientology game the system to abuse people!   So I'd move to Hamburg, or some other EU country.

Ralph Hilton did something like that, and he's carried on Scientology spiritual therapy and training and others have, for decades in EU. 

Running from the US big money nasty cult fraud religion, back to EU, for some peace to do one's spiritual practice!

The NY Times mag article about church' abuse of money, that Scientology is abusing its monetary power, that point by Gary Wills has even more truth to it.

NCSP
NCSP

I would go a bit further, honestly. My apologies to exes, some of whom are some of the greatest people I know, but if at some point in your adult life you read L. Ron Hubbard on "the mind" and thought, "Hey, this makes sense," then....

I'm not going to finish that sentence.

SFF
SFF

I'm curious. What are the earmarks of a covert, hypnotic brainwashing operation?

Mirko
Mirko

What were the comparative hit counts for the "premier" scientology website compared to (and I say this with the utmost respect for VV and runnin' scared, no insult meant!) a medium sized news outlet like the Village Voice again?

Hardly a "premier website".

Clarkle
Clarkle

Piss off Mark, noone give a crap about your post any more.  If you can seriously read story after story about the tactics and practices of  your church , and still post something so stupid, you are either demented or despicable.  Go post on Fredumb's website, moron.

ScientologyAdvocateMarkMiglio
ScientologyAdvocateMarkMiglio

Of course I read the all the half truths and one-sided propaganda. 

May be I am a fool to be reading this garbage, but at least I can see the half truths and black propaganda, and obviously, you can't.

Leave me and my church alone. 

Wake up you fool.

LRONHOOVER
LRONHOOVER

mark its not a church its not a religion and you have been conned

Old OT7
Old OT7

So true!  Just so very, very true...

LoaylOffcier
LoaylOffcier

Your cult hurts people and scams them out of their money.

Wake up idiot.

Anon A
Anon A

That's amusing, because... Logic is to Scientology, asGarlic is to Vampires

Scientia
Scientia

Half-truths and Black Propaganda? Well, to handle Black PR one must disprove lies. So do it. No character assassinations, please. Just provide the data you have that can prove Tony's article (in full or in part) is false.

Per HCO PL 21 November 72, How to Handle Black Propaganda (and your OSA NW ORDER 15 Black Propaganda) counter PR must, MUST be true. So whatever data you come back here with to prove this article is, as you claim, "garbage", make sure you evaluate it first to ensure accuracy. You don't want to look like a chump.

"VALID ANSWERS MAY ONLY BE ATTAINED IN USING VALID DATA. Thus, if the subject of Data Analysis is neglected or imperfect or unknown or unsuspected as a step, then wild answers to situations and howling catastrophes can occur." -- LRH, HCO PL 12 May 1970, Data Series 3, BREAKTHROUGHS.

hgc
hgc

Please point out the untrue parts. Be specific. Bring evidence. 

Clarkle
Clarkle

Being called a fool by you is like being called a midget by Miscavige.  Even if these stories were half truths, it would still be unacceptable.  Noone would give two craps about you or your stupid organization if you weren't hurting people, and as long as you do,  we'll be here....so get used to it!

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