Scientology vs. Pollution, a Lisbon Cocktail Party, and More: Sailing on the Apollo Nov. 20-26

Last week, we started a new feature here on Fridays: the Voice has obtained hundreds of copies of L. Ron Hubbard's previously unpublished "Orders of the Day," which he gave to crew members as he sailed the Mediterranean. Our documents cover the period from 1968 to 1971. In this installment, we're looking at what was happening the week of November 20 to 26 during those years.

After the jump, LRH shares his thoughts on welfare, flu bugs, overpopulation, and more...


November 20: Hubbard is still in a good mood after rechristening the Apollo days earlier:

Hey the ship works better in AFFLUENCE! Must be the right formula to apply!...We'll 'shoot the moon' for sure. If we keep it up we'll take the Solar System. All out of small, neat, fast, well done actions that include the smallest detail of the ship and the biggest detail of action over the world. So hurray and well done, well done.

LRH, Commodore


November 21: The ship has left port (which one is not indicated), and Captain Bill Robertson is happy to be at sea again.

November 24: The ship reaches its new destination (still not named). Hubbard notes a happy occasion:

The only news is we look much nicer and we are expecting a charter from a US private Educational Foundation for use as their Admin Center in conducting educational surveys. We came to this port for supplies to handle the charter and some winter coats for the crew. We will be here about 5 days...MARRIAGE Good luck to Norman Starkey and Maria Starkey. SHORE Have a pleasant time ashore.



November 21: Hubbard ponders the end of the world...

30 YEARS: I have just been studying up on the Anti Pollution literature and current efforts to handle smog.

According to about every agency and authority there is, the planet has about 30 years to go.

Although they try to link over-population and food to the problem, these are incidental. The major point is that the rate of oxygen consumption of 'Spaceship Earth' is about a billion times its replenishment. Unchecked air use and pollution by factories, cars, etc. The plants, grass and trees which convert carbon dioxide back to oxygen are being killed widely by pollution.

30 years. And then the planet will not support human life. Cheerful note.

Well, that's where the politicians and 'scientists' took us.

We're then in the only activity that will both prosper and succeed.

We better stop fooling about with disorganization, get it organized and get the show on the road.

I'm doing my job. Are you?

TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION: What is the threat of "unchecked air use" to the planet, and what, exactly, would Hubbard be doing as his "job" to counter it?

November 23: A flu bug hits the ship. Luckily, those high-level Scientology powers are largely keeping it at bay, Hubbard notes...

EPIZOOTICS: A 48 to 64 hour illness is around. The number is decreasing. The last port of students brought it. High temperature, chills, aches in lower back and legs, strong headache, diarrhea are the symptoms. It hasn't been named as to what it is.

Probably some type of Flu that got loose from a Roche bacteriological warfare project to raise their dividends on anti-biotics sales.

We get a lower percentage than other groups. But that it hits at all shows the need of stepped up auditing action. We have far too few auditors in Qual. Group numbers doubled but Qual auditors didn't. Student and public lines increased but delivery hour potential didn't.

I have now speeded up tech results which should help.


November 20: Hubbard describes his feeling about spreading the wealth...

Welfarism is the idea that the people can get something without exchanging anything. Over 50 percent of the U.S. population at this time is on a hand-out kick. The Great White Father in Washington is supposed to be able to endlessly spend money which it itself is not covered by production. This brings about money worthlessness because the money isn't buying anything.

Our recent survey of Scandinavia shows that the population loves welfare but hates taxes. This in itself is an idiocy. You can't have people all over the place who are not contributing but who are receiving service and money without the tax problem becoming unsolvable. Where is the money coming from?

According to the Socialists' plan and timetable, all those people now on welfare are scheduled for the crematorium. This is why the Socialist has to keep the psychiatrist handy. In Socialist Germany under Hitler the psychiatrist solved the economic problem by cremating anyone who had to be contributed to without contributing. The action was then extended further in order to grab property by cremating those who had wealth that could be seized. So these Socialists, who began all this welfare idea in the first place, are not very nice people after all.

It is this kind of world in which we are trying to remain viable. If we are very clever, if we are well organized, if we keep our eye on the fact that we have to exchange something real and valuable with the society in order to receive support and if we realize that we cannot afford people who think they have to be contributed to and do not themselves contribute to the group, then we will remain viable in spite of world recessions and economic upsets.

And finally, there was this note about a Lisbon party, and we've highlighted a couple of interesting names:


Hey Kate, still remember that shindig?

The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord

Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications. | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


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In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]


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How do the Indies read this shit about Hubbard and NOT think, "Hmm, maybe he wasn't a brilliant guy? Maybe he just made all this shit up."

I know it's hard to admit it after you've devoted your life to a fraud for so many years, but it's better to wake up late than live in that fantasy world forever. 

Hard to believe that any Scientologist, volunteer or staff or Indie, really knows much truth about Hubbard. The more you learn about this guy, the more you realize that he was always full of shit, right from the beginning.

Andrew Moore
Andrew Moore

Tony, either you deserve mad props for a sly, photoshopped joke, or Leonard Zelig is real!


Forgot to add that WFMU's Beware of the Blog has mp3s of the horrendous Apollo Stars jazz album "Power of Source"; the cover photo with the glum-looking Hubbard is hilarious. I can't link to save my life, but it's the March 26, 2009 post titled "My Church of Scientology Free Personality & Stress Test Story, Plus Scientology Jazz!"


If you want to see what it was like living on the Royal Scotsman/Apollo, Google "The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard"....I think XenuTV (Mark Bunker) has it on his YouTube channel. The crew looks ragged and knackered, and Hubbard denies - while looking right into the camera - that he had a second wife, then claims his first spouse died.

The film was made by Grenada TV in 1967 or `68, while the Apollo was docked in Bizerte, Tunisia. It also has footage of Saint Hill and a London (?) interview with Nick Robinson, a former crewmember ("Director of Public Relations") who claims that life onboard the ship was hard because the crew had no real sea experience. Robinson was also not impressed by the Clears among first Sea Org members, and that's why he left. I think this film is a good antidote to any claims that Hubbard's time at sea in the late 1960s amounted to much.


Hubbard: "Probably some type of Flu that got loose from a Roche bacteriological warfare project to raise their dividends on anti-biotics sales. "

Have fast can you say paranoia?

Wow, Even in the 70s it was common knowledge that flu is a virus, and that anti-biotics have no effect (and still don't) on virus' as they only work on bacteria...


Off topic but a suggestion for all those who read the comments: I think there's a great meme potential for all videos of car crashes/accidents that show people in them.... obviously nothing too graphic or awful. Now, if it's yet to happen and you're a passer by then you've got to whip out your camera phone and start filming and at an opportune moment someone has to say "oh, no only Tom Cruise can help us!", other variations "this is a job for Tom Cruise", "quick, someone call Tom Cruise" etc.

One could go search YouTube or grab clips from movies and add these comments as a V.O. or subtitle. The point being that Tom Cruise is the only one who can help at car accidents is synonymous with every car accident posted on the net from now on.

Just a late night thought.


The Church of Scientology has solved the massive danger of unchecked air use by creating large and protected empty spaces inside of which new hot air is continually created. Called "Ideal Orgs" these spaces have replaced the rain forests that use to provide new air.

The Psychs chopped down the rain forests so that Big Pharma could extract microbes from the wood and plants to make new and more ferociously potent and deadly psych drugs. It is a fact that each single capsule of any psych drug requires three trees from the rain forest to make. So yes, take a psych drug and you're killing three rain forest trees. Thanks for destroying the earth along with your mind! No wonder you're suicidal and want to shoot up your local mall or school you petulant little godforsaken Nazi 

Actual research conducted by the Scientology Environmental Labs using state of the art electropyschometers to audit the air have proven that one Ideal Org is equal to 10,000,000 acres of rain forest. It thus behooves humanity to support Ideal Orgs and to donate large sums of money so that at least ten new Ideal Orgs are opened each month.

You can thank those of us in OSA Int who labor everyday to ensure that you have enough air to breathe.

We are the experts on the mind.

We are the experts on unchecked air use.


This one was a bit hard to follow without an exhaustive knowledge of Scientology history. That's ok for the blog followers, more than ok, its a tasty treat. But when you're releasing material like this you might be pulling in new readers because its new and leaky and secret. Link more next week please Tony!



Hubbard says (following his "study") that all the available evidence shows that humanity has 30 years of air remaining.

He also says that over-population and the global food supply is merely incidental to the more major problem of the air we need to breathe simply running out.

A great example of Hubbard being no more sage or wise than the cab driver who took me to the station the other day and told me all sorts of fascinating things, all of which I could clearly tell were bullshit.


I swear to god that guy standing next to LRH in the topmost picture, the one where they're both dressed up in fake military garb, looks just like Woody Allen.  Now, THAT would be a good movie.

CofS Exit Zone
CofS Exit Zone

Lawl, Hubbard at sea was just as crazee as he is in his lectures! Nicely done Tony, I think I'm going to like this new Friday thing best of all your weekly spots.


Marcotai? Miglio? [crickets]


Guess they're doing their part to stem "unchecked air use."

Now where can I go with the effluents of Humpty's fleet?


  If LRH was clear (perfect memory, perfect intelligence) wouldn't he have found a way to create energy from nuclear fusion, which would have solved the pollution / diminishing resources problem.  After all, he was a nuclear physicist, wasn't he?


All of it amounts to the worthless ramblings of a drug addict.

Worthless. ALL of it. LRH was a cunt.


The reiteration of Hubbard's Exchange policies and Tone Scale theory on how to dispose of unproductive or dangerous sectors of society abound in these OODs. All the while attempting, with words of wild wisdom, to convince the slaves that they are part of a worthy endeavor. 


Back in the 70's the Boston Org Qual library had a book of the OOD's  (Orders of the Day) from The Apollo.  I used to love to sit and read a bunch of them because they were so fascinatingly weird.  I love they way you are presenting them Tony!  And there's plenty of crazy in those OOD's to come.  I can hardly wait for the laughs that are going to be had with this stuff.!

"What is the threat of "unchecked air use" to the planet, and what, exactly, would Hubbard be doing as his "job" to counter it?"

What I got out of reading that was Hubbard was saying that the planet may be doomed in 30 years so we all better start really working hard to get the asses in the seats and clearing this planet.  Hubbard always pushed "clearing the planet" rather "clean out their bank accounts" when he wrote policy.  That's why many Scientologists can't see the con.  To them, Hubbard was the exact opposite of a con man. He's a man that wants to save the planet through Clearing, because once people are Clear, their life is better and the world is better too.  It's  Spiritual Magic to them but it's really being a snookered moonbat.    

What Ron is doing to counter this?  From a Scientology mindset:   Ron is countering this by researching!  He's Source!  He's the one who has "risen above the bank" (the reactive mind) and is giving to mankind his great work!   The more people that find out about how truly wonderful Scientology is the safer and saner the world will be.  As the world gets saner the pollution problem will get handled by sane people who don't pollute and the world will be saved.And all due to "moving the the Bridge to Total Freedom".

^^^^^This is how a Scientologist thinks.

PattyFormer snookered moonbat

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

"We better stop fooling about with disorganization, get it organized and get the show on the road."  -  L. Ron Hubbard

Hubbard used this phrase:   "....get the show on the road..."    admonishing staff to get the movement running effectively hundreds of times in his staff writings and lectures.  

It's almost a subconscious admission of what his whole operation really consists of.

Chuck Beattyex Sea Org, 1975-2003Pittsburgh


Tony, it would be a great topic to compare Sciloontology's pseudo-science quackery to other early-mid 20th Century medical-fuckery.  There are paralleled to Hubbard and the guy who thought implanting goat gonads into humans cured infertility.  He bought his medical degree from a diploma mill and actually performed surgeries on humans (mostly men) by implanting goat balls into scrotal sacs.  Dr. Brinkley also invented Mexican boarder blasting radio and ran for political office.

"Dr." Brinkley had quite the following, and was finally taken down by a lone crusader at the AMA.  Many sheeple were subjecting themselves to very harmful practices and critics were harassed in similar fashions.  There were many of these quacks, whose magical thinking may have defined the era to which a conman like the Hubbtard saw opportunities.  

Just a thought for future posts....

Kate Bornstein
Kate Bornstein

Oh Tony, you are an evil evil being for restimulating me with clips from the Nov '71 OODs. Now I've got my engrams in a twist and I'm having a hard time remembering. I think I'd been busted off my post as Flag Public Relations Officer a few months earlier, and assigned to the Deck Force where a few weeks later I was promoted to First Mate. I had no business holding that job because I knew nothing about ships! But I was the ranking officer on the Deck Force, and the mantra was "make it go right." The Captain ordered me to remember all my nautical knowledge from my earlier lifetimes on ships. Truth.

I do remember the panic engendered by the Old Man's prediction that the world would end in the year 2000. We were all supposed to ramp up production in response to his dire warning. And there was me, the nice Jewish boy closet case in charge of the seaworthiness of the whole frakking ship. Bad, bad Tony O—I'm so confused now, and it's all your fault. I sure would appreciate any help getting my timeline straight from any readers who were aboard in those days.

I don't remember that particular Amanda Ambrose cocktail party and reception. I *do* remember a lot of the people listed. Des Popham, the guy who posted the party assignments, worked for me as Boats and Transport I/C which would explain my cushy posting at the bar. Des was responsible for the lifeboats—there were eight of them, and the only one that would actually lower down to the water and float was the one assigned to the commodore and his family.


He denies having had a second wife while also saying he's been married twice. Now that's OT.


On the set of "Hannah and Her Body Thetans"


Louanne appeared on the Paulette Cooper thread.


....and knew Piltdown man was bullshit. Hubbard aside, did they ever punch anyone for making that up?

All the "Superpowers" stuff makes me hope after Clearwater Space Camp has enough users, they start showing these powers off. I'm imagining some kind of Flugtag mixed with powers in the movie 'Mystery Men'.

DM would win it every year against people vague superpowers they can't do if you're watching. Noone can top his alterego: Captain Bankrupto. Watch, as the amazing Captain Bankrupto makes all your life savings disappear before your very eyes!


No he flunked out of a physics class. He knew nothing about nuclear power you couldn't pick up in a cheap sci-fi book.


What do you mean WAS? He's flying through the cosmos right now, righting wrongs and battling space monsters. He just dropped the body.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

We watched L. Ron Hubbard - An Introduction To Scientology - made 2006.

I bought it at a thirft store for 99¢ still cello wrapped. lol

Anyway, I know what you mean about the rambling, I could barely watch it because of the distraction of his yellow crooked teeth. By the look of his gums and the separating of his teeth, pretty sure he had periodontal disease.

CofS Exit Zone
CofS Exit Zone

"Back in the 70's the Boston Org Qual library had a book of the OOD's  (Orders of the Day) from The Apollo."

^^This is intriguing. I can't help but wonder how common that was in other Class V orgs in that era? And was that something only certain staff-level or higher would only of had access too? Also - were these OOD's commonly referenced or followed up on in other red/green vol polices of the same era?

Also perplexed by: If these juicy dox were common in Class V orgs in the 70's, how in da heck is it that Ortega got his hands on these before the Anon hivemind did?!?!? And why oh why, for the <3 of Xenu, weren't these fed to Wikileaks back when they were hellbent on ridiculing Scientology lawsuit threats.

^^That said - /APPLAUSE to whoever did feed these dox to TonyO, well-done and well-played nonetheless. At least their now safely in the hands of a maestro who will play with them for all their worth ;)

Kate Bornstein
Kate Bornstein

Snookered moonbat. That's just the best. Snookered moonbat. Yep, that was us.

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Martin Gardner put Hubbard's completely in mid 20th century crank pseudo-science context with his must read book, easily gotten on Amazon, "Fads and Fallacies."   The chapter on Hubbard are excellent, and give the mind 1900s context into which Hubbard fit and compared to other cranks at that time.   Must read for Scientology experts. 

Also, George Malko's book, which Janet praises, came out in 1970, "Scientology:  The Now Religion" is one of my favorites, Professor Dave Toureztky also highly recommends it.

Malko's book is also essential reading for anyone wanting to see more excellent journalism on Scientology.     Malko's book easily cheaply found on Amazon also. 


It was definitely a tactic of Hubbard's to expand, and claim it was about EVERYTHING and applied to everything, rather than getting stuck on one thing, like goat balls.

However, in effect, now that things can no longer be kept secret or a mystery, David Miscavige is stuck with a pile of goat balls.


AL, I WAS 16 YEARS OLD when you locked me in a closet at the Martinique Hotel in New York to work, and put me on all nighters. Nice to know  you transformed yourself into the person I experienced as a kid coming into Scientology. A little fucking coy bitch. 

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Hi Kate,

I heard from Bill Ryan, Treasury Div during the days before the voyage from the Mediterranean to the Caribbean in 1975, that at best only one of those lifeboats worked.

In other words, the 1975 Atlantic crossing voyage was a very unsafe trip!  


He was married three times, and his first wife was alive at the time the film was made.

For some reason this website took down my comment on the Apollo Stars' 1974 "jazz" album, "The Power of Source." WFMU's "Beware of the Blog" has mp3s of the entire record; it's on their March 26, 2009 page. I bring up the album because the band was Hubbard's halfassed way of trying to make the ship interesting; they were to play on deck every time the Royal Scotsman came into a port. It never worked out like that....some of the band members were only playing because they were trying to get out of the onboard RPF. It's amazing to listen to them make a hash out of staples like "Summertime" - to make the record, Hubbard allegedly rented out a Portugese movie theater and charged the band a dollar each for each wrong note!


Louanne is back, but Terryeo is still missing. They are both the same moron. Louanne is also Greta Busby, James P and about 50 others.


Sir Arthur Conan Doyle lived just a few miles from where the Piltdown Man's "remains" were unearthed.  Given his penchant for humor and practical jokes it has long been thought that while he may not have been the actual perpetrator of the hoax, he may have had some hand in its planning.


This moment of consensus should be noted for the record.

In about 1975, the reception desk got a phone call..."I think you people are a bunch of fucking Moonies!!" <click>It was almost as if that caller had correctly indicated my item off a list.  Almost, but a tiny bit off somehow.  Now I know why.

"We are a bunch of snookered moonbats" was my item.</click>


The Gardner book with the Hubbard chapter is remarkable because it was written in 1952 and dead-on. Hubbard wrote this himself: "The dianetic clear is to the current normal individual as the current normal is to the severely insane."

All Hubbard's stuff about the engram-implanted sperm and ovum, where the word "aspirin" heard by the sperm, can result in "ass burn," an adult with a nasty rash on his ass. Come on! That was as nutty then as it is now, especially with Hubbard claiming it as an "exact science."


By the way Al, I am sitting here remembering Molly, Beth, Carla, Annie and me, and the abusive dictatorship you ran on all of us. The must have's, the can't haves. The penalties, the sadistic things you mocked up. The general suppression. And I am  wondering, how are you doing as a chick? Getting f&*^#d up the ass like you did to all of us?  


Only one lifeboat worked?  Well, that would certainly stop the "unchecked air use" by the rest of the crew!


Can body thetans be used as a floatation device?


I'd like to indicate your noodle is floating.


And yet, more than a decade after the last of the quotes you cited...

"[LRH] told me a lot about his previous lives, about being Cecil John Rhodes.Having come from Rhodesia I knew Rhodes was gay and wondered why he shouldassociate himself, he who was so morally strict on how disgusting gays were,why he should associate himself with someone who was definitely that wayinclined." -- Kima Douglas

"Ha! He quit talking about [being Cecil Rhodes]... He used to brag about that on the Apollo, then one night Kima Douglas said,‘Sir, did you know Cecil Rhodes was a flaming homosexual?’ Never heard him mention it again.” -- John Ausley, as quoted by Skip Press

With that following Hubbard's repeated bashing of Watson for his sexual preference (in the 'Amprinistics' HCO Exec Letter of 1965), and the whole John McMaster debacle soon after, I find it hard to believe that Hubbard had really changed his views much.  It was a very homophobic organization when I was in, which was during Hubbard's lifetime.  I've seen those quotes from the '50s brought up regularly over the last few years, but, in light of my own experiences, they seem like wishful thinking or a bit of revisionism.


Time passes. Attitudes change.

DMSMH probably won't, however. It's funny. For all DM's edits to Hubbard's books and lectures (such as the mysterious deletion of the Orwell reference (PDC20) warning of "the boy" who elects himself as 'The New Order') he leaves this kind of crap intact.


On page 125 of Dianetics, a “sexual pervert” is defined as someone engaging in “homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc.”

$cientology is undeniably homophobic.

Any $cientologist who says otherwise clearly hasn't read Dianetics, and is basically committing a huge "high crime" by misrepresenting what L Ron Hubbard himself wrote, otherwise known as "squirreling".

This is why the New York org is routinely protested. It's because they believe in persecuting gay people. It is also the reason Jason Beghe quit the cult.

Kate Bornstein
Kate Bornstein

Wow, Never saw any of these. Serious thank you's. xo K


"...Homosexuality is about as serious as sneezes." -- LRH, from the lecture The Resolution of the Second Dynamic, October 1952.

"You worry about homosexuality…I don’t know how there could be anything else, the way you get scrambled on sexes on the track. It is quite remarkable that the sexes stay straight! I mean, I think that’s the remarkable thing." -- LRH, from the lecture Child Scientology, July 1957.

"...All right, this fellow decides that being a man fits his basic purposes and his basic personality, and so forth, yet 50 percent of the time he picks up female bodies. What's he going to do with them? Just collapse at that point and everything he likes to do, and so forth, and be a female for just a lifetime?" -- LRH, from the lecture Your Case, 3 January 1960.

Kate Bornstein
Kate Bornstein

Oh. My. Goddess. SO well said, Mr. Beatty. OK, please answer me this one: thetans, as pure souls, have no gender, right? So what's the big deal with the homophobia and transphobia? Really, not being snarky. I still believe thetans (souls) have no gender and to me it's such a glaring contradiction in beliefs—doublethink at its slyest. Does LRH ever reconcile that in the canon? Happy holiday, Chuck. xo K

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

The "upper levels" prepares one to become the ultimate "soul astronaut", the Hubbard definition of "Operating Thetan" one of the definitions mentions no need for the body when you get up to your highest soul powers latent within yourself (which you only realize when you do ALL of the Hubbard lineup).

What sadly sold me on the Hubbard lineup of spiritual goodies, was the ultimate out of the body state that one supposedly attained, at the very "top" of the Bridge to Total Freedom.

How else could one zoom around the whole universe, unless as a pure "soul" that is risen back up to "God" like super-soul powers.

Body thetans are merely amnesia tranced messed up souls, that infest human bodies, since those body thetans are so amnesia dead in their soul minds, even to the degree that they don't have much influence on us, but just a tiny amount of influence.   Body thetans are incapable of running bodies fully, so just hitchhike us, and randomly leak their mental garbage fits and starts to mess us up a little.  

Naw, the whole Hubbard gig is soul improvement, to "Operating Thetan" status, which is sort of Greek god like pure soul status, able to fly about the universe.

Of course, no one gets that.   It's a pretend world lots of people join in the pretending.

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