Scientology's Sales Pitch: "Pure and Simple Blackmail" (UPDATED)

Today sees another explosive installment in Tom Tobin and Joe Child's latest investigative project examining Scientology at the St. Petersburg Times.

The previous day, the SP Times duo had introduced us to Hy Levy, a fomerly successful "registrar" who brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars to Scientology each and every week by convincing church members to max out their credit cards, pull from their 401Ks, and draw from equity on their houses.

Today, we meet some of those church members who gave and gave and gave, particularly after Scientology leader David Miscavige put out new versions of L. Ron Hubbard's books in 2007.

One of the most frequent questions we get about Scientology from people we meet is some variation of this: "You've written that the church is actually pretty small and losing people every day. So where is all this money coming from for new buildings?"

We have to admit, we never really had a very good answer for that. Until now.

The SP Times series, with most of it still to come, has already made us much more aware of how the "regging" process works, and how Scientologists constantly endure a hard-sell approach not only to pay for auditing services, but to make outright donations for new buildings, for memberships, and for books they already have copies of.

(I still can't decide which of Hy Levy's revelations hit me the hardest -- that in 16 years of 12-hour days pressuring fellow church members to fork over huge amounts of money he'd taken a total of five days off work; that after raising about $200 million for Scientology over his career while making only $50 a week, he was sent off with a severance check for $500; or that he was so dedicated to his job he considered his dying mother a "distraction.")

Tobin and Childs once again reach deep to bring us the facts and hard-to-get numbers:

Scientology rings up astonishing sums: $100 million a year just from services sold in Clearwater, a minimum of $250 million since 2006 for the International Association of Scientologists, tens of millions for new church buildings called Ideal Orgs, and untold millions more from selling new volumes of church scripture.

When you're paying workers only $50 a week, those kinds of sums really go far.

In today's installment, the SP Times duo flip the coin and look at some church members who were the subject of Scientology's high-pressure sales pitches.

Watching his video, I couldn't help liking Orange County, California Scientologist Luis Garcia. He finally got fed up when a Scientology VP named Bob Adams tried to pressure him into buying 32 sets of the "Basics," the newly remastered set of books and lecture CDs that Miscavige announced in 2007. (The books alone cost about $450 a set, with the lectures, sets cost $3,000.)

On the other hand, Garcia apparently was a pretty easy mark over the years:

Through their climb in Scientology -- Rocio Garcia reached the second highest level, OT VII -- they contributed $510,000 to help build a new church in Orange County. They donated $340,000 to the Super Power construction project in Clearwater and $65,000 to an initiative to preserve Hubbard's writings on titanium plates. Luis gave $50,000 to Scientology's membership group, the International Association of Scientologists.

The previous day, Tobin and Childs wrote about yoga instructor Brian Culkin, who has been mentioned here at Runnin' Scared previously, because he managed to give Scientology more than $300,000 even though he was involved in it for only about a year:

Culkin describes a nightmarish scenario, with teenagers and other church members hitting him up from the time he arrived in Clearwater with pitches for donations in the tens of thousands of dollars.

Scientology responded to the SP Times by saying that all churches ask for donations.

Sure. Of course they do. But can you imagine your neighborhood Presbyterian church announcing that it had got the commas and semicolons cleaned up in the Bible, and now asked all of its members to spend tens of thousands of dollars for new books or risk losing their eternities?

Or worse. As Lisa Hamilton, formerly a high-ranking "ethics" officer at the Clearwater base explained to Tobin and Childs, it was made clear to members that the way to make up for transgressions was to buy more copies of books.

She said one parishioner declared "suppressive" by the church bought 20 sets from a senior Sea Org officer, hoping it would return him to good standing. Similar offers were made to former Sea Org members who wanted to stay active in the church but couldn't. They had left the staff without paying their "freeloader debt" -- the bill for services they'd received for free while on staff. "That to me was pure and simple blackmail," said Hamilton, who oversaw base personnel, security, ethics and other areas.

Wow. And this thing is only beginning. We hear the duo will take tomorrow off, publish part 3 of their series on Wednesday, and then give us parts 4, 5, and 6 on Sunday, Monday, and the big finish next Tuesday.

I think I'll have to hurry up and do my own little scoop -- about an overseas Ideal Org adventure -- tomorrow, when they're not publishing another installment, if I want to get a word in edgewise.


UPDATE: Our friend and regular commenter Mark Miglio for some reason has been somewhat shy of late, sending us e-mailed responses to our stories rather than posting them in our comments section. But I thought our readers would be interested to see how Mark responded to today's story about the latest Tobin and Childs installment. So here it is:

Here's how I see today's explosive installment:

A simple amends project: "One parishioner declared 'suppressive' by the church bought 20 sets from a senior Sea Org officer, hoping it would return him to good standing". Great, thanks for your donation. Very well done. We are happy to welcome you back, but please to be more ethical in your future actions.

Other amends projects: "Similar offers were made to former Sea Org members who wanted to stay active in the church but couldn't. They had left the staff without paying their 'freeloader debt' -- the bill for services they'd received for free while on staff." Only a nut should say, "'That to me was pure and simple blackmail'."

-----------------------

My take:

There is the war of the matrix that is ongoing; but you, a Scientologist, should know that already. I simply ask that everyone make a self-sacrifice. Don't wait for us to ask for donations. Please be proactive and come to us and offer as much as you can.

We, much more than others -- and that means you too -- are responsible for the security of this whole planet. Be ever strong and ever loyal. It is going to take a whole lot of donations to make just a dent in the societal downward spiral that we are confronting.

-----------------------

Levy didn't seem to mention that he most certainly had gotten a lot of donation commissions for himself, for all the materials that he sold to the students that had regged for courses: "he was sent off with a severance check for $500".

Levy went way 'out ethics' when he said that he was so dedicated to his job that "he considered his dying mother a 'distraction'". No decent Scientologist would feel that way. Clearly, sad and counter to our doctrines.

Academic course materials are always very expensive in colleges. And our books h a d to be redone because too many people where confused by the mis-transcribed original editions (myself included): "can you imagine your neighborhood Presbyterian church announcing that it had got the commas and semicolons cleaned up in the Bible and now asked all of its members to spend tens of thousands of dollars for new books." Hey, commas are important, too. And leaving out words, like "the" can grossly skew the whole meaning of a paragraph.

No sensible Scientologist would say to another, or believe it themselves, that "...all of its members [should or must] spend tens of thousands of dollars for new books or risk losing their eternities". Give me a break, this is patently ridiculous.

What we have under consideration, here, is a voluntary amends project with the goal that every public library in the world should have at least one set of the basic books: "Lisa Hamilton, formerly a high-ranking "ethics" officer at the Clearwater base explained to Tobin and Childs, it was made clear to members that the way to make up for transgressions was to buy more copies of books". This is only one of the many ways that a grossly errant Scientologist can make up for transgressions; other ways, like doing volunteer work will also be looked upon very favorably.

Do you feel a little bit better about us, now. Questions, comments?

ARC,

Mark



The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology] | [Commenters of the Week] [Thursday 2pm Stats!] | [Scientology vs. South Park]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Tom Cruise and Baby Suri embarrassed by news item, so someone must pay]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]
[Scientology hates clean ice: The "Fair Game" operation that should turn your stomach]
[Scientology hates clean ice, part 2: Another target, and the web as weapon]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]
[Lori Hodgson and Disconnection: "No one's going to take my eternity away"]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]
[Philip Boyd, Saving Grace actor, rips "the business that is Scientology"]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]
[Aussie former rugby pro Chris Guider calls David Miscavige "toxic" and "violent"]
[Stephen Cox, UK church newbie, pledges 20K pounds] | [Biggi Reichert: A German Lisa McPherson?] | [The Birmingham trove: 7,000 internal e-mails]
[Australian farmer blamed for giving Tom Cruise a bad shrimp, loses her friends, family]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]
[Scientology High School, Dating and Super Powers!]

My Voice Nation Help
187 comments
Peter
Peter

I was a small time reg and I watched a young woman burst into tears after I cajoled her into using her credit card. Worst thing I ever did.

Jgg
Jgg

  An interesting thing about these books: the public libraries here in Santa Monica give them Dewey Decimal numbers in the 100s, for Philosophy, rather than one for science or religion.  Barnes and Noble also put them under Philosophy.  Arguably, they should go under fiction.

S. P.
S. P.

Thanks for the excerpt from the Mark Miglio email.

Mark: Please don't be shy about commenting. I miss your contributions and I bet many other people do.

Arthur
Arthur

The very, very funny part about "The Basics" is that, with these revisions, David Miscavige is saying, quite plainly, "L. Ron Hubbard was so STUPID and unobservant that he missed these major mistakes for over THIRTY YEARS, printing after printing.  LRH was an IDIOT who couldn't even read his own books.  I am so much smarter than Hubbard, *I* discovered these errors.  Hubbard was a STUPID IDIOT and *I* am brilliant."

There can be no other interpretation.  And Scientologists bought it -- literally.

Marcotai
Marcotai

Calling "investigative reporting" the job done by bigots such as tom Tobin and Joe Child who have a history of hatred against Scientology (the doctrine, the Church and its founder), it's like cheering the Gestapo's propaganda for its "humanitarian" job.Again their so called  "sources" are the only few ex-Scientologists who have committed so gross transgressions while in Scientology that now it seems they are unable to confront them to the point to blame the Church for their unethical actions.Well...those few apostates (while "thinking" that their are using the media to voice their causes (an hide agenda to get rid of David Misgavice as to take his place) ARE ACTUALLY BEEN USED by suppressive media in its agenda to destroy Scientology religion, its founder and Scientologists.Real and ethical Scientologists already know that, but who care to ask them their opinion...eh Tony?In few words, SP Times is keeping its usual dirty ATTACK on Scientology and Scientologists as usual, hoping that changing its name (with "TampaBay") would stop the sharp decline in the number of its readers. LOL i would say.

One more thing...As Tony is well aware, just a couple of people posting in favor of Scientology in this blog are enough to increase the number of comments here. Yet, it's a remarkable fact that this increase is due to the responses by the USUAL dozen hate mongers posting here! LOL I would say.

Peace.

Idomind
Idomind

 Who is getting the royalties on these new books?  

MMike
MMike

So now investigative reporting is to find a couple of people overwelmed by a churches fund raising objectives.  A church who is funding drug abuse awareness, psychiatric abuses, championing human rights across the globe, helping millions of individuals overcome their own demons, etc.  Tell me what illegal act is the church perpetuating?  Tell me what is wrong about being successful?  You can find the same extreme anecdotal evidence throughout the Christian world, especially in the South.  Just google "millions donated to church" and you will see article after article of people giving millions of dollars to their respective churches and in my search not one reference to Scientology.  This is just an attack on a church that is not a mainstream religion.  In the past 5 years germany could not find anything.  Belgium, for the last 20 years has been investigating the church, cannot find anything.  The France situation is a travesty of justice:  in the original indictment the public prosecutor refused to try the case, the original plaintiff dropped out of the appeal process, leaving the only plaintiffs as two government agencies not even involved inthe original trial.  The only aspect of this investigation is that it spotlights the effective organizational technology developed by LRH.  It is professional and effective and the few people that come forward can't help but to expose that aspect.  Any organization will have disenfranchised individuals.  some will gladly sacrifice their 15 minutes of fame to voice their criticisms.

Peter
Peter

Believing people aren't human(souls), you can do things like that without empathy.

Jgg
Jgg

  Actually, Arthur, that interpretation is correct.  If scibots weren't brainwashed, and could think critically, they would realize that.

Marcotai
Marcotai

Actually the 'story' is much different.It was actually Ron Hubbard's project, dream or whatever you call it, to RESTORE the tech. LRH was on this project long before David Miscavige took over.LRH trusted DM to get this project accomplished, a great difficult project that DM have completed few years ago!It's not,by chances. that now Scientologists who have their Basics in, who are going up  the bridge three times (circa) faster than before.That's is a fact, pleased face it. 

Scientologyadvocatemarkmiglio
Scientologyadvocatemarkmiglio

Well done --- a classic --- "it's like cheering the Gestapo's propaganda for its 'humanitarian' job."

The term "SP times" was just so appropriate.  I will miss it!

I will always refer to the Tampa Bay Times as the S.P. Times.  I won't little them get away with a name change. 

Marcotai, there will probably never be peace here. They think they are saving the world.  I don't really think that we can chastise them for communicating in the only way that makes them comfortable.   Smart people will always, in time, see beyond their rhetoric.

Arthur
Arthur

Marcotai: Thanks for continuing to promote the idea that Scientology is the religion of lies, hatred and bigotry.  Good work, troll.

Anon A
Anon A

Hey Marcotai --You might want to have a little chat with your fellow YouTube Scientologist "vaLLarrr".vaLLarrr has actually dared to voice the opinion that s/he agrees with a lot of what is said in the recent St Pete Times articles about the Church of Scientology being too aggressive in squeezing its members for money all the time.  This unusual expression of independent thought from a normally lock-step defender of Scientology cannot go unpunished!  Perhaps you should should write a KR on vaLLarrr.

...Or maybe you should admit that your "church" has indeed alienated its own members with its ruthless money-grubbing.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

Hate mongers? I thought we were TonyO's "merchants of chaos," sounds better and very proud of that title.

You the "gestapo of cults" laying in bed with the Nation Of Islam have no room to talk.

Talk about bigots!!!!!!!!

Jgg
Jgg

  Nice of you to show up, Marco.  I notice that you did not answer any of my questions.  No surprise.  As to hate, I agree that people who are ripped off hundreds of thousands hate the organization.  Wouldn't you?  And Marco, it does not look like a religion.  I have met ex-Catholics, Mormons, etc.  They don't hate their former religion.  They weren't kidnapped, robbed of their life savings or forced to disconnect.  They just grew skeptical and drifted away.  Anyone can join or leave such churches.

  And Marco, we never said we hated any members of Co$.  We didn't say we hated Garcia for spending $500,000 only to be declared SP.  To the contrary, we are sympathetic to his plight, and want others to avoid the same disaster.  Is Davey sympathetic to his plight?  You see Marco, Davey and his ilk are the real haters.  In Nazi Germany, Hitler's apostates (and he had many, some of whom tried to kill him) tried to help the Jews, Gypsies, etc. avoid RPF/Trementina style camps, and helped many to escape.  That is what we are doing for Co$ victims or potential victims.  I am disappointed that you can't make this distinction.  Protecting people is not hate. 

  I thought you were the smartest people on the planet.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

This is a different Marcotai. This is not the same person who trolled us for laughs. 

This post indicates that David Miscavige is shitting his pants.

SFF
SFF

Most of the Church of Scientology's "funding" seems to follow the library campaign model:1) CoS produces misleading and / or self-serving materials on drugs, psychiatry, etc2) CoS gets members to donate money to pay for the materials and their distribution as part of a campaign3) CoS makes a profit on the materialsSo rather than the Church of Scientology funding any cause, they are using causes in order to sell things to their members (and other pigeons) for profit.

choocho
choocho

No, people can find empirical evidence that Christian and Muslim charities help people, the claim that Scientology helps people is only anecdotal hearsay that you OSA internet guiys spam the net with. You're only succesful at providing employment for lawyers and private detectives and Scientology is shrinking everyday.

Guest
Guest

Your discussion of these incidents with the uninitiated in Scientology can cause havoc. Should you describe the "clam" to some one, you may restimulate it in him to the extent of causing severe jaw pain. Once such victim, after hearing about a clam death, could not use his jaws for three days

Anon A
Anon A

"A church who is funding drug abuse awareness, psychiatric abuses, championing human rights across the globe, helping millions of individuals overcome their own demons, etc"

A nice repetition of the Scientology PR machine's party line there, MMike, but you're omitting the fact that all those supposedly helpful activities are solely geared towards publicizing and selling Scientology.  How about "championing the human rights" of those poor beaten-down saps in the RPF and the Sea Org? 

Synthia Elizabeth Fagen
Synthia Elizabeth Fagen

Step 1:

Read all the articles fully - every word.

Step 2:

Come back and ask the question again with the intention of listening and learning something.

Having a discussion with someone still inside the "church" is a complete waste of time. The only time a person starts REALLY questioning Scientology, where they sincerely want the answers, is after they leave.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

"Tell me what illegal act is the church perpetuating?"

Theft. Disconnection. The usual culty stuff you're famous for.

Too bad you wandered into consensus reality.

You won't like it. You'll leave us soon.

Enjoy your upcoming time in the RPF!

Thanks for asking.

Arthur
Arthur

No marcotai.  Wrong.  You simply don't know anything about the history of Scientology.  You are not and never have been a Scientologist, or you would know these things.  L. Ron Hubbard CLOSELY supervised his books.  Hubbard considered them the most important things ever.  No book was published unless it was perfect according to Hubbard.

I've worked with those who were with Hubbard and who worked on publishing Hubbard's books.  They confirmed that those books were EXACTLY as Hubbard intended them to be.  Hubbard DID NOT WANT THEM ALTERED in any way.

I'm glad you put quotes around your "story".  It indicates that you know it isn't true.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

More atrocities of grammar and coherence:

"It's not,by chances. that now Scientologists who have their Basics in, who are going up  the bridge three times (circa) faster than before.That's is a fact, pleased face it."

Your writing is atrocious, "That's is a fact, pleased face it"

SFF
SFF

"It's not,by chances. that now Scientologists who have their Basics in, who are going up  the bridge three times (circa) faster than before."So what? The same organization putting out the Basics decides how fast people go up the bridge? It's like a professor, having already sold you his textbook, saying "if you buy the _new_ edition of my book you will get a better mark in my class."

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

We are saving the world from you and your abusive, "GREEDY" crime syndicate.

You have OPPRESSED, SUPPRESSED and FAIR GAMED mankind to long. The cracks in the hour glass are spreading.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

You really wandered into the wrong place. There's a pitiful few of you, probably unconsciously doing a "Babylon Working" in public, while your "Tech" guarantees that you will commit some linguistic atrocity in the process.

Wrong crowd, dudes.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

LRH speaks:

"Now it's of peculiar interest to an Arab country that there is a company and a certain set of bankers who also finance the World Federation of Mental Health. …and we see that although the KGB and so forth seems to be associated with the World Federation of Mental Health, their other organization in action seems to go back to Jewish Bankers."

.–L. Ron Hubbard, Aides Conference, "Covert Operations", 2 November 1969

"Actually, have you ever noticed how a Negro, in particular down south, where they're pretty close to the soil, personifies MEST? The gatepost and the wagon and the whip and anything around there—a hat. They talk to them, you know. "What'sa mattuh wi' you hat?" They imbue them with personality."

–L. Ron Hubbard, Therapy section of Technique 80 ("Route to Infinity" tapes), Part I, a lecture given on 21 May 1952

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

And now that we've stepped firmly upon Godwin's Law, I have one word for you, "Marcotai":

Wogs. 

So please—that argument has already been dealt with, no need to waste any of your excess entheta on yesterday's news.

bobx
bobx

A "scientologyadvocatemarkmiglio" showed up to applaud him, too, but doesn't sound like "our" Mark Miglio.  After that e-mail to Tony, I bet the old Miglio was locked in a hole.

Jgg
Jgg

  Especially the Red Cross and its Muslim counterpart, the Red Crescent, during disasters.  What does Co$ do in a disaster?  Sends vultures to hand out propoganda and perform "touch assists", and, just as there is no such thing as a perfect clear, there has never been anyone helped by a touch assist.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

However, you can take full credit for helping to create the current 1 % vs the world political/socioeconomic climate we're all roiling in these days.

Bloody good show DM, I say!

Xenu
Xenu

Boo hoo!

;-)

MMike
MMike

First sensible thing you have said all day...

MMike
MMike

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  And I would hrdly characterise those many thousand loyal SO members as "beaten-down". 

MMike
MMike

Back at 'cha Fagan...

MMike
MMike

Really?  You should take advice from some of your co-horts and read these articles very carefully...there is no theft...and disconnection is a personal choice easily remedied.  But you don't read that here.  I am sure there are consensus among all sorts of groups...it doesn't mean you are right.

MMike
MMike

In order for you to see a clear you have to understand exactly what a clear is.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

Marcotai, will never know the truth, he's not allowed to hear it or read it.

Arthur, the truth is always the best come back. ;-)

Arthur
Arthur

By the way, marcotai, you made another major mistake.  Hubbard DID NOT leave Miscavige in charge with projects under way.  Hubbard EXPLICITLY left others in charge.  Hubbard EXPLICITLY did NOT include Miscavige in the church leadership.

But, you aren't a Scientologist, so you wouldn't know these things.

Jgg
Jgg

  And was LRH concerned with making sure those floor scrubbers were paid well?  Did he tip them?

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

Yeah, talk about ironic bigots! One says, "kill whitey" and the other one says, "they're only good for scrubbing your floors." WTF?

Jgg
Jgg

  Good point--we Wogs are all idiots, liars, child rapists or drug addicts.  We never said that about scientologists.

Guest
Guest

You of course refer to the Weeper incident, a source of many serious engrams.  In my research, this is second only to the Piltdown Man incident as a source of human woes, such as biting.

Guest
Guest

I LOL'd.   This response is funny, belly laugh funny...  in so many ways.  Who can guess why?

 

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

That would be "Too bad", if you want to use the right words. Scientologists generally have the grammar and writing skills of sixth graders, terrified of any tech later than 1955.

Again, more proof that CO$ makes you stupid.

MMike
MMike

To bad it is not germane to the aurgument...

Quentinhub
Quentinhub

I would.  I've been there.  I've seen it.  People can't function on only a couple hours' worth of sleep night after night.  Many are loyal because they don't know any better, and the truth is hidden from them.  Others are afraid of getting separated from their spouses when they're shipped off the the RPF for merely saying no to an illegal cross-order.  Do you really think that the folder pages at AOLA or ASHO or any other SO Org liked being forced to function on their posts with no sleep and being given IAS and Basics quotas, along with nearly every other random post in the Org?  I say it again - get a clue.  Look for yourself and don't listen to the party line propaganda machine.  Have a real conversation with SO members individually and find out what their days are really like.  Absolutely they are beaten down.

Anon A
Anon A

Well of course they don't all feel beaten down.  Some are just horribly misguided and suffering from delusions of grandeur.  There's lots of that in Scientology.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Not beaten down? How about "glassy-eyed zombies?" With flat affect?

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Only a few thousand Mike. And very, very beaten down.

If you can't stand the heat, drop your meat body and ascend to the next level. You aren't doing the slightest bit of good here.

Synthia Elizabeth Fagen
Synthia Elizabeth Fagen

Wow. Step away from the Kool-Aid.

The way the church is set up and the policies enacted, the upper management could be murdering people, raping children, any atrocity one could think of and you would still have said this very same comment.

What if these people are telling the truth? They are trying to help you! You will never see it.

Marcotai
Marcotai

Wow! Only 138 comments in here by now, and you robinwoodland... or whatever your name is, are making up for at least 30% of them. LOLAre you still wishing to get Tony to finally get your name on his weekly best commenter's section?LOL

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Hear that?—sounds like Slap echo.

Tonight, Live From The RPF—THE ENTURBULATORS ! ! !

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Today's Mantra:

Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. Standard Tech never fail. . .

Repeat till head explodes.

Marcotai
Marcotai

Someone who has reached an hight level on the SCN bridge, just cheating on his wife could turn him an SP IF he is not willing to confront it and come clean.OTs have a great, great self-determinism and so a great responsibility! They know that unethical behavior committed by them can't be anymore justified as; "well, i have a reactive mind which I can't control" or with: "Sorry, i don't know what happened to me".Unfortunately for some for them (fortunately they are just 1 in 1,000) the transgression they made it's too "big' to confront and admit.It's not about the amount of time they spent in SCN, it's about WHAT they have committed just before turning "critical" (nuttering) of their loved church.Standard Tech never fail.

 

Synthia Elizabeth Fagen
Synthia Elizabeth Fagen

Well done on responding. I didn't think you would. Now, say something intelligent so we can actually have a discussion because your response makes no sense.

Here are a couple of questions for you:

How is it, that a person who makes itall the way to OT8 (Luis Garcia), gives 1.3 Million to the church,stays in it's good graces for 25 years, all of a sudden turns into anSP?

You mean the perfect tech of Scientology was unable to spot thatabout this person in 25 years?

After it was spotted, this perfecttech couldn't handle him and keep him there as a happy member?

Please just answer.

Quentinhub
Quentinhub

Ha!  Disconnection is a "choice" in the church just like paying your electric bill is.  Sure, you can choose not to, but then you're screwed.  Have you even read the thousands of personal accounts of what the church has done to individuals and families, or do you just believe what they tell you and the media?  If you have ever had a close friend or family member that you had to disconnect from, and you didn't experience any sort of pain or hardship, then you're as cold as the idiots who wrongly enforce it.  As for the theft, I guess it only counts as such when they get caught?  If people didn't call them out on stealing money off their accounts, they would have just continued doing it.  Get a clue.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

You have the morals of a mutant mix of a 1 %er and a Telemarketer. No one is about to buy your bullshit here.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Everything is very exact in Sciloontology. It is such a precise science of the mind-fk. A "Clear" is  at cause over their mental energy. It is the goal of every Sciloontology Space Gorilla (SSG).

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

In order to understand what a Clear is, you have to understand brainwashing.

There are no clears.

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