L. Ron Hubbard Schools Richard Nixon: Sailing on the Apollo Nov 27 - Dec 3

HubbardCommodore.JPG
On November 18, we started a new feature here on Fridays: the Voice has obtained hundreds of copies of L. Ron Hubbard's previously unpublished "Orders of the Day," which he gave to crew members as he sailed the Mediterranean. Our documents cover the period from 1968 to 1971, and this time we're looking at what was happening the week of November 27 to December 3 during those years.

After the jump, LRH chastises the U.S. president for not clearing a word...

This week, in 1969, the Apollo survived a bad storm -- and old-school celestial navigating by Captain Bill Robertson was in part what helped the crew come through.

But for our report this week, we're going to focus on a single Orders of the Day from 1971. For his dispatch on November 27, Hubbard cut loose with something that was obviously foremost in his mind. Take it away, Commodore...

MISUNDERSTOOD NIXON

Imagine my surprise and hilarity to find that President Nixon is pursuing current economic policies because of a misunderstood word.

The devaluation of the dollar and the increase in prices are placing considerable stress on our own economy and making it necessary to do considerable reorganization.

In studying the economic reports I receive weekly from the American Institute for Economic Research and the American Institute Counselors, Inc., this fantastic piece of information came to light.

The word "inflation" is being used in a mis-defined definition by the Administration. All this Wage-Price freeze that Nixon has been putting on is because he thinks the word "inflation" is caused by and means "prices increasing." He and his beer hall buddies publicly state that "the rate of increase in prices is synonymous with the rate of inflation." Therefore, all one has to do is freeze wages and one will cure inflation.

According to Webster's International Dictionary inflation is: "An increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available goods resulting in a substantial and continuing rise in the general price level." In other words, if there is too much money and too few goods you will have inflation. This is the standard economic definition of the word.

Because he does not know and possibly does not want to know the correct definition of the word, Nixon's policy is to freeze wages and prices. This, at least, solves a mystery which has existed for some time. Why did the United States Government continue to print endless avalanches of bonds and currency and flood them all over the world and even engage in the most expensive possible no-win wars without realizing that it would bring about a destruction of the dollar?

Of course, it would also make many American administrations guilty if the true fact of inflation and its actual definition were recognized. At any one time all they had to do was stop steamshovelling money into oddball areas as fast as they could print it. This, by the true definition of inflation, poured vast sums of money and credit into the world without keeping pace with production.

I thought something was adrift when Nixon first came to power when he said that his program involved contracting production in the United States. This, by reducing the amount of goods available to be bought, would of course cause the money in circulation to lose value. He pursued this course because he had a misunderstood word. He thought inflation meant "rising prices."

As the real clincher, however, the papers and reports I have been reading, even though they are written by super economic experts, omit entirely in their proposed solutions the simple idea of increasing production until it brings about a lowering of prices. According to anything I can see here, this would be a startling new idea to these economists who are criticizing Nixon. Indeed, that rather obvious idea is not even represented as a word in the English language. In Webster's we have "deflation" as meaning "a contraction in the volume of available money or credit resulting in a decline of the general price level -- contrasted with inflation."

In other words, it's quite beyond all these people to solve their current "money crisis" with a simple idea of increasing production in order to handle inflation. Apparently it does not even have a word or definition in the English language.

Looking over this literature I see that when I studied economics at Princeton University I came to some conclusions which were so obvious to me that I thought they were a part of the textbooks. Now, reviewing this, the idea of increasing the amount of goods in an autonomy as a planned action to defeat inflation is apparently brand new.

Anyway, the economic trouble we are handling and our hard work to survive and remain viable is being made necessary because of a misunderstood word. The only trouble is, it is not we who misunderstand it. It is the person or persons causing the trouble. As they don't know the definition of the word they, of course, could not be expected to be able to handle it as a problem.

Listen. Don't you think it's about time we got shoes on some of these people?

LRH, COMMODORE

Perhaps Gerry Armstrong or Kate Bornstein or someone else who was aboard the Apollo at this time could tell us what it was like to receive such dissertations from the Commodore, and what sort of a response he was looking for.

And how about our readers with backgrounds in money matters -- how would you grade the old man's shot at macroeconomics?

As for studying "economics at Princeton," one supposes Hubbard is talking about the 3-month military administration training program he attended near the end of WWII which took place in some buildings at Princeton. But then the old man was prone to a bit of exaggeration.



The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology
#1: L. Ron Hubbard
#2: David Miscavige
#3: Marty Rathbun
#4: Tom Cruise
#5: Joe Childs and Tom Tobin
#6: Anonymous
#7: Mark Bunker
#8: Mike Rinder
#9: Jason Beghe
#10: Lisa McPherson
#11: Nick Xenophon (and other public servants)
#12: Tommy Davis (and other hapless church executives)
#13: Janet Reitman (and other journalists)
#14: Tory Christman (and other noisy ex-Scientologists)
#15: Andreas Heldal-Lund (and other old time church critics)
#16: Marc and Claire Headley, escapees of the church's HQ
#17: Jefferson Hawkins, the man behind the TV volcano
#18: Amy Scobee, former Sea Org executive
#19: The Squirrel Busters (and the church's other thugs and goons)
#20: Trey Parker and Matt Stone (and other media figures)
#21: Kendrick Moxon, attorney for the church
#22: Jamie DeWolf (and other L. Ron Hubbard family members)
#23: Ken Dandar (and other attorneys who litigate against the church)
#24: David Touretzky (and other academics)
#25: Xenu, galactic overlord


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


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EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

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OVERSEAS NEWS

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67 comments
Dean Fox
Dean Fox

L Ron's missives have some economic merit but like one commentator has already said it was likely borrowed and adapted to fit the misunderstood word concept. Seems to me the same basic arguments are made today.

Some research in to the articles around at the time may reveal the true source.

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

Reading this OODs reminds me of the many years of intellectual torture I endured in the cult and unfortunately forced upon others as a course supervisor.

Kate Bornstein's comment says it best.

PattyMoher
PattyMoher

tl;dr

Whenever I start reading Hubbard spew my brain starts to bleed.

mrgreebly
mrgreebly

Thought about replying on his assumptions on money supply and growth but then remembered this was the man ultimately responsible for the welfare of those on the ship/s. Such as David G, Sharone S, D, Nicki F, Terry and many others.

So not worth the time.

MarkStark
MarkStark

For Xenu's sake Brian, it is most likely Hubbard wasn't receiving any weekly economic reports  from the American Institute for Economic Research. Instead, he probably read an article in The New York Times or other publication that cited that publication and he just borrowed that person's ideas and conclusion. He did stuff like that a lot, and used to get caught at it, just as he was caught demonstrating a "clear." He never tried to do that again. He used to claim that a "clear" had a perfect memory.

He was constantly borrowing the ideas of others and re-branding them as his own brilliance. For example, his ideas of "clay modelling" obviously came from Maria Montessori, a physician and educator earlier in the century. Have you read Russell Miller's book yet?

Hubbard claimed to an associate that he was the first person to do oceanographic research in a bathysphere. Hubbard had read an article in the newspaper about a bathysphere.

His lies and fantasies were endless. Wives, colleagues, schoolmates -- they all witnessed his chatter about his great adventures and accomplishments. The proof of his lack of originality, is that no one except cult members or people who study cults, quote him on ANYTHING philosophical, literary, scientific, spiritual, psychological, medical, anthropological etc.

Haven't you ever read Jung or someone who is genuinely brilliant and imaginative too? Dianetics is a ludicrous pile of crap. All that stuff about the fetus being pierced multiple times with knitting needles or sperm being "implanted" after hearing the word "aspirin" which causes a child to be born with a rash on its ass, i.e. "ass burn."

His whole idea of smoking more to prevent cancer was fairly unique. Do you realize that young people as young as nine, born to Scientologists in Clearwater, used to start smoking, so they could be like Hubbard?

Hubbard also claimed he had the secrets to "controlling the aging process." Hello! He died at 74, a physical and mental wreck, his ass shot full of Vistaril.

From your experience and perspective, please share what is brilliant about Hubbard to you? If it is anything truly of value, we can probably tell you the source he stole it from. Some of the best stuff, might even be something David Mayo wrote.

I've spent weeks (if you add up the hours) reading Marty's blog, Isene's blog, watching Jabba-the-Ethier's videos, reading discussion by some FZers on ESMB, hoping someone in the FZ could explain what it has done for them, or what is special about it.

I understand the euphoria, that people feel blown out of their minds, may travel about exterior with full perception. None of them will talk about it. No one will write about it, like Carlos Castaneda wrote of his experiences, or Jill Bolte Taylor in her beautiful and spiritual book: MY STROKE OF INSIGHT.

Excuse us if we think there is something overly crass and seriously wrong with selling religion or spirituality at such high prices, even if people like yourself are willing to pay almost anything. Indenturing children into commercially-oriented servitude is another egregious red flag.

Alanzo
Alanzo

Village Voice Poll Question of the Day:

If you had to choose between L Ron Hubbard and Richard Nixon as President of the United States, which would you choose?

quiet one
quiet one

"beer hall buddies"

Godwin's Law?!

Raymond Hill
Raymond Hill

Hubbard was expert (and perfect example) of hyper-inflation of ego.

Just like most thing he wrote, it's probably another self-serving rant, in the current case, an excuse, a rationale of why his underlings should work harder to increase (Scientology) "production" -- for the "greater" purpose of "preventing inflation"...

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

This comment is slightly off-topic .... but is directed straight to Hubbard.

The entire premise/theory/purpose of Scientology is to free trapped 'Theta' or 'Life-Force' by clearing the 'Reactive Mind' and releasing 'Charge' from the 'Whole Track'....

That is it how....  you 'Re-Gain' your true self and "lost powers" from eons ago....

Of course as you go further along the process the "Carrot" is moved further and further away from you.... so you will buy MORE services.... there is always another ...not previously mentioned step.....you absolutely MUST do!! ..... to save Mankind!

But... there is one thing we CAN look at to see if this works or not...

Clearwater Florida.... according to Hubbard.... ' if you just had a dozen OT's standing on the shoreline... they could make the sunrise in West and set in the East....'  (paraphrase...something to that effect)... 

The point here is that just by having a handful of OT's in an area .... that would un-enturbulate and raise the entire spiritual level of awareness of a very large group of people by simply being in proximity to these OT's..... WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE SCIENTOLOGISTS!

Well..... look at the ENORMOUS presence of OT's and Scientologists in Clearwater Florida....

IS EVEN THAT TINY LITTLE VILLAGE OF A COMMUNITY MIRACULOUSLY CHANGED INTO AMAZINGLY ENLIGHTENED SPIRITUAL BEINGS....???

No.

Actually.... the community is rather annoyed with their Oppressive Presence.

Freespirit515
Freespirit515

A masterful example of telling an "acceptable truth" ( which he expouses in his PR policies.) He did study "at Princeton "(town) but represents it as "at Princeton"(university). But why in the world should he have felt the need to stretch the truth to an already gullible group who bought him hook,line and sinker?

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

Simply in reading this Hubbard Draft of Economics Hocus-Pocus you can see the whole of his method and diatribe in subverting the minds of willing followers... 

As usual, he just 'invents' his whole argument and elevates himself at every turn.... frequently he writes how he has discovered something that no one else in all the long and broad history of eternity has been found or known or understood.

There is so much 'Bullshit' in his statement that even an Ol' Montana Ranch Hand would find the hillside un-navigable.

MrElronious
MrElronious

LRon would have had a field day with George W's misunderstood words. people are never there when you need them.

Kate Bornstein
Kate Bornstein

We never questioned any of his rants, Tony. After all, he was the one who was reading weekly economic reports from the American Institute for Economic Research and the American Institute Counselors, Inc—whatever the fuck they were, and whatever validity they had as sources of information. We were't allowed to read that stuff—we were only allowed to read "Source," another moniker he enjoyed. Everything and anyone else was "off Source," or squirrel. Rants like this just made us more secure in the knowledge that he was the only one who knew what he was talking about... on any subject.

I do remember that references to Nixon's "beer hall buddies" meant his German advisors and collaborators, because Nixon (as we all know) was under the thumb of the Krauts and their psychiatrically implanted plans to enslave humanity. 

As to the inflation part, LRH only talked about that to stress how important it was to get our stats up now, now, now because otherwise we'd be too late to save the planet. Ah, those were the days.

Brian Culkin
Brian Culkin

Guys- as much as I realize the major faults of Hubbard- this is a spot on critique of the economic policies put in place under Nixon. Spot on. In fact, many of the problems we have today can be traced to the Nixon administration. Yes, he certainly takes an Austrian, Von Mises approach to his critique but valid, clear, and cogent none the less.  

I have a degree in American History as well as having run a multi million dollar financial firm. I challenge any commenter to a debate on the validity of this despatch.

And....for the record... I am not a "scientologist"  I just happen to see the brilliance as well as the evil and lies of the man.

I don't mean to be rude either and I apologize if I come across that way.

Thx Tony for all you do

UncleGrandfather
UncleGrandfather

He studied economics at Princeton, bullshit artistry at George Washington University, had a black belt in being an asshole, and was the foremost expert in scamming people out of their hard earned money.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

In other news, the SP Times:

"CLEARWATER — A planned Scientology fundraiser benefiting Ruth Eckerd Hall was abruptly canceled by the venue Thursday after an avalanche of criticism by hall supporters.

But a Scientology spokeswoman said late Thursday the church would still host the Jan. 7 benefit, disregarding the "hate mail" and pledging to still pass along all proceeds.

The benefit, Ruth Eckerd's first ever hosted by Scientology, would raise funds for the renovation of the historic Capitol Theatre downtown near Scientology's spiritual headquarters.

A fundraising drive for the theater, owned by the city but managed by Ruth Eckerd Hall, has been stalled for several years.

Only a day after invitations for the Scientology event went out, a "significant number of negative comments" led hall leaders to reconsider . . . "

http://www.tampabay.com/news/s...

Whatever else is going on, all this attention on the CO$ has resulted in a major PR disaster for the cult.

Myriam Breitman
Myriam Breitman

Hey, he studied economics in Princeton. He must know what he is talking about.

Dean Fox
Dean Fox

Scientology works for people in the same way most other religions, beleifs and self help books do. It provides a "rational" and if you believe it then it works.

The more funky highs people get are just common altered mental states that can be induced in as diverse environments as candel lit quiet rooms to rock concerts.

John Duignan describes his high while auditing in his book The Complex. He also describes it as addictive.

I find it difficult to achieve such highs on my own but can while in a group however I know the mechanics and don't attribute it the any kind of super natural influence.

The problems aren't with the beleifs of scientology so much as with the organisation built around them.

I don't believe Hubbard created scientology just to help people, I think he did it to make money.

That said Hubbard clearly craved acceptance, validation etc. I think he may have believed what he wrote and never under estimate the power of adoration to create delusions of grandieur. In a way I think Hubbard was a victim of his own creation and I expect Miscavige will be one day.

It will be interesting if the idealist indy's create a care bear scientology or not based on what they are now free to believe was the intent of it was. Meanwhile we all agree the church of scientology has to be dismantled in it current form and its current leader dealt with by legal means.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

As Howard Hughes was in charge at the time, what difference would it really make anyway?

Jgg
Jgg

 I'd choose to leave the country.

UncleGrandfather
UncleGrandfather

I'd rather have Nixon's dog Checkers as president then either one of those two. 

Sid
Sid

 I've always thought that David Miscavige was the ultimate proof that Scientology does not work.

Either he has become leader of the Church due to his super-OT powerz, or he's got control of the church by being a super-evil SP. It has to be one those two, there is no other option (at least in the mind of Scientologists).

If it's the former, then why on Earth has Scn become the most distrusted, disliked religion on the planet, and why are there so many exes coming forward to tell their stories of abuse? How could an OT leader of the church allow/cause such terrible things to go on? Why is the church in such a terrible condition?

If it's the latter, then how the heck did he get control of a church filled with OTs? How did he get past LRH himself without being spotted?

The answer of course, so obvious to us, but so hidden from the mind of a cultist, is that there are no OTs, just people with much smaller bank balances then they should have.

Guest
Guest

Because he loved playing the game. (his con game called scientology)

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

OMG, Kate!  After reading your response, I had one of those bognitions, as I call them, where you want to laugh and cry at how nuts it all was. Happens when I read something that paints the reality of what was really going on in scientology and to scientologists. Thanks for your cathartic comment.

barbsnow
barbsnow

Thanks for the explanation of the beer-hall buddies phrase. I wondered what it referenced.

Hubbard's proclamations all take on a supercilious  tone with the underlying message:   "I'm someone who simply understands everything (because I've done such extensive study and  know so very much) and will explain it all to you in my cavalier and condescending way. Then together we will stand tall in smug in our superior understanding of the situation."

I suppose it is meant to invite people to feel a part of his self perceived superiority, but the first time I heard him speak I was just amazed that people took him seriously. 

mrgreebly
mrgreebly

"I have a degree in American History as well as having run a multi million dollar financial firm. I challenge any commenter to a debate on the validity of this despatch."

I don't like upsetting good folk like yourself Brian. He highlights 3 basic economic rules nothing more, beyond that the mechanism falls apart. He also does not discuss the "gold standard" problem that had existed since the mid 60s and was actually crippling growth, ie no free moving markets and lack of liquidity.

Nixon's plan was a simple political one that caused minor economic damage to what the govt saw as a larger longterm problem, hence the nickname "Tricky Nicky" I think.

I am not a fan of macroeconomics and find it very boring compared with innovation and the evolution of growing economies themselves on a micro level.

wannabeclear
wannabeclear

I admit I'm no economic expert, but, whatever else he said, it's hard to get past "the problem is a misunderstood word." 

Alanzo
Alanzo

His whole rant is based upon Hubbard's belief that Richard Nixon had a misunderstood word on "inflation" and that Nixon's reasoning for the economic steps he took during his presidency were based upon this "MU".

He writes: "The word "inflation" is being used in a mis-defined definition by the Administration. All this Wage-Price freeze that Nixon has been putting on is because he thinks the word "inflation" is caused by and means "prices increasing."

Question: Where, exactly, did Richard Nixon say this? 

Hubbard is providing a straw man argument here to his followers to make his point. Hubbard did this frequently - he misrepresented the arguments and reasoning of people he was criticizing to make them look ridiculous in order to "dead agent" them as credible sources. It's still a straw man fallacy Hubbard is presenting here, and very sloppy reasoning.

"He and his beer hall buddies publicly state that "the rate of increase in prices is synonymous with the rate of inflation." Therefore, all one has to do is freeze wages and one will cure inflation." 

Who said this and where? "Synonymous"? You mean these people actually used the word "synonymous" to describe the relationship between these two economic phenomenon?

Here Hubbard is associating Nixon with his "beer hall buddies" (whoever they are) and supposedly what "they" were "saying", but you can't tell. Hubbard makes this intentionally unclear so that he can lump all this together and make it all wrong using guilt by association.

Then he presents his [literally] fascist solution to "handle" the economy - force everyone to produce more. You can't do that in a free society. The President does not have the power to force anyone to produce anything. So the solution he presents to inflation is completely unreal.

Hubbard's rant provides sloppy and unclear reasoning to support a fascist solution to inflation. It is not an argument that pertains to reality. It is the rant of a disassociated cult leader who has absolutely no responsibility for the economy, the rights of producers, or any economic solution that can be applied to help people in the real world.

Sorry - it's a very bad piece of economics, and an even worse piece of reasoning.

It's something that a crank would write.

If L Ron Hubbard became President of the United States, the United States would be run like a Church of Scientology. 

And that would be a catastrophe.

Synthia Elizabeth Fagen
Synthia Elizabeth Fagen

Right on Brian.

The guy wasn't stupid and one doesn't have to disagree with everything he said. That, too, would show an inability to observe and think critically.

The problem is that just because the man could read up on economics and spit out a "spot on" piece does not a spiritually enlightened person make. People gave him their minds and their lives because he was able to pontificate certitude better than just about anybody. One could make the argument that his certainty was the carrier wave for all that we accepted. Making the leaps in confidence to then embrace the whole system, due to other intelligent mutterings, was a mistake from which we have all learned some good lessons.

We need to be responsible enough for our own original thoughts and observations and not give our lives up to gurus. You, or anybody else, could spend time researching and then put something together that sounded brilliant enough to get people to listen. Good on ya and good on him. He is no different from anyone else in that regard. I give my high regards to Von Mises. Next.

sketto
sketto

You're not rude. This is the place to mix it up with ideas and opinions. I believe that honest statements, even if mistaken or misinformed (as we all are at times), are a healthy part of learning and communicating. I respect your comments.

I personally can't comment on the economics of this opinion because I don't find value in trying to filter the good out of all of Hubbard's countless ramblings. There are too many other truly accomplished men and women (with real credentials) to read and learn from, and too many other sources of education in this life, sources that are not full of lies, which surround the occasional clever remark or quote.

Since one must always wonder what Hubbard was inventing and what was true, I think it's a much better use of time to admit there are better sources of information, and certainly better people to quote because those quotes don't have to pulled out of a huge pile of fantasy-laden gibberish.

For example, when I read this from Hubbard (above):

"In studying the economic reports I receive weekly from the American Institute for Economic Research and the American Institute Counselors, Inc., this fantastic piece of information came to light."

The first thing I thought was not "Good point, LRH." but rather, "I wonder if this is a lie and if he has any contact at all with those institutes or if he reads weekly reports." It sounds to me more like something he mentions to make it sound true.

And this is why quoting from Hubbard is such a dead end (though Scientologists do it all the time). Because anyone who knows anything about his life and his outlandish claims can never truly trust what he's saying. He lied so often about both big and small things, you can never be sure.

So, for me, it's a waste of time to try to find the nuggest of truth in an ocean of his speeches and writings. It's got too much dishonesty poisoning the whole enterprise to be worth my time searching.

And what kind of special truths, really, can be known by such a man that you and I can't discover ourselves through much more friendly, honest, open, sociable means?

Yeppir
Yeppir

You cannot have wage controls absent price controls.  You just cannot.

wannabeclear
wannabeclear

I think that Miscavige has replaced his master as the "formemost expert in scamming people out of their hard earned money."  Wonder if he's ever had a "near-Princeton" experience.  I'm certain he's never had a "near-human" experience...

Robert Robinson
Robert Robinson

This would have been great news in any major city.  That it happened in Clearwater is the best.  I love it!

Freespirit515
Freespirit515

Yeah, why organize a fundraiser? Why not just cut a check for $2m if they were serious about it? They have the money. Just another self-serving PR ploy. Glad the community put their foot down.

Ron
Ron

Too bad it wasn't Princeton University but a four-month course in "Military Government" at the Naval Training School, Princeton. So he had a near-Princeton experience.

MarkStark
MarkStark

I'd grab a train for Canada before I'd grab the cans, and have Hubbard send me to one of his quiet & no-sorrow disposal facilities for the hopelessly low-toned. When they put me down, I'm going with plenty of loud weeping and gnashing of teeth.

According to people in the current Hubbard regime, I can't stand people who want to improve themselves and help others. It is the only sci-logical explanation for why I haven't contributed to the Super Powerz building or at least why I haven't written in praise of the promise it offers millions of people, if it ever opens. Even if it doesn't open, it is amazing, for its beingness, is-ness, and super powerness.

I'm sure Dr. Hubtard could explain my pathology in a "cogent" 5-volume set. He was a genius in that way. Something to do with the Helatrobus implant I'm sure...

Alanzo
Alanzo

No fair!

You gotta pick one for President: Either Richard Nixon or L Ron Hubbard.

I agree that Checkers would be better than either one of them, but this is a scientific poll.

Our team of experts are standing by bubbling test tubes in white lab coats, holding clipboards.

So please answer precisely.

Robert Eckert
Robert Eckert

In "beer hall buddies" I think I hear a reference to the "Beer Hall Putsch" (Hitler's first attempt to grab power in 1923, when he was young and impetuous and not-ready-for-prime-time; he got some jail time, during which he wrote "Mein Kampf").  Anybody that LRH didn't like was liable to be compared to the Nazis (LRH practically invented Godwin's Law).  Which only increases the irony about the solution he finally comes up (his final solution?) to inflation, by simply forcing everyone to produce more (without getting paid for any of this extra labor):  as Alanzo says, that truly IS fascist, not in the rhetorical sense used to insult people whose politics we don't like, but in the original sense.

The last bit about "can we get some shoes on these people?" puzzles me.  Can anybody translate that into English?

wannabeclear
wannabeclear

I couldn't have said it better myself, sketto!  I had exactly the same reaction to his supposed report-reading.  And it reminds me of how I used to respond to a former friend who turned out to be a pathological liar and a sociopath.  

No one is saying the man was stupid (it takes a helluva mind to dupe so many smart people), but it is certainly not worth anyone's time to try and discern the truth from the lies and the original thought from the borrowed or co-opted philosophy.  The most accomplished liars always inject just enough truth in their bullshit to make it believable.  And Hubbard was nothing if not an exceptional liar and bullshit artist.

Xenu
Xenu

Well, the issue at hand was that we'd been printing up piles of money and incurring massive debt to pay for the Vietnam War, and that meant inflation.  Wage and price freezes didn't accomplish many particularly desirable results, but they were good political handwaving for a while, and may have helped prevent financial panic.

I find Hubbard's observation to be fairly worthless, because Nixon was dealing with an immediate crisis, and he couldn't simply order the population to become 30% more productive, effective immediately.  That sort of thing is generally deemed to be totalitarian, and frowned upon.

In an alternate universe, maybe Nixon ordered that anyone who was fit but not working an 11 hour day, would be considered a traitor, and sent to some sort of slave labor camp.  You'd have to wonder how the alternate universe's LRH would respond to such an act, since that was how LRH ran things, himself.

wannabeclear
wannabeclear

I once had a near-Princeton experience...but I digress...

sketto
sketto

Say! I once toured a museum and had a sandwich while in Oxford, England. Can I now tell people that I "attended Oxford"?

sketto
sketto

Easy question: Nixon.

Nixon was a criminal, sure, but mostly for political gain. And  he probably did fewer drugs than Hubbard and didn't disown any children or wives.

Hubbard seriously hurt, personally and directly, a lot of people for his own pleasure and profit. 

wannabeclear
wannabeclear

Yep.  I actually just watched that video clip a few days ago.  As far as I can see, anything of value that Hubbard had to offer could be found in other sources...for free.

sketto
sketto

Have you seen the quick interview with James Randi regarding Hubbard? Randi knew him before Scientology. He states that he met Hubbard, Asimov and a bunch of other science fiction enthusiasts/writers at regular club meetings. Randi claims that they all disliked Hubbard and his obvious self-interest. 

In the video, Randi also says basically the same thing to a pro-Hubbard guy who is interviewing him and making the old claim, "You just haven't read enough of Hubbard or actually practiced his tech."

Randi dismisses this and says, (paraphrased) "Right. I should spend my life studying a man who is obviously a fraud."

NCSP
NCSP

Exactly. What Hubbard is advocating is a Great Leap Forward, and it would have been disastrous in practice. He may be theoretically right, and God knows I'm no fan of Nixon's, but Nixon didn't have the luxury of sitting on a slave ship pontificating about the "Ideal Scene." He had to work in the real world, something Hubbard hadn't done in decades.

NCSP
NCSP

Yes, yes! I've been on two White House tours in my life -- does that count as two terms? I need to get with the government about a pension...

sketto
sketto

Ok. Since we're playing semantics, that's correct. But "I beat Rod Laver" is not the same thing as "I beat a Wimbledon champ". Or, as you put it "an amateur player who beat the Wimbledon champion".

Jgg
Jgg

  He said "I beat Rod Laver" and he was (technically) right.

Alistair
Alistair

Heck, yeah... This technique would make anyone's C.V. so much more impressive -- I'm updating my resume right now!

Xenu
Xenu

Since the Oxford Capacity Analysis test was written in East Grinstead, I'm thinking that just being in the same country is enough.

Guest
Guest

Only if you are as ethical as a scientologist!

sketto
sketto

I see your point, but it's still flawed. If we really want to be technical, your friend beat the child who became champion. Or you could even say he beat the future champion. He did not beat a Wimbledon champion.

Big difference.

Guest
Guest

If you follow scientology's code of ethics, absolutely!

Jgg
Jgg

  I met an amateur tennis player who beat the wimbledon champion.  He did--when he was 12 years old, he beat a seven year old, but barely ("gosh, he's good for his age") and that seven year old turned out to be Rod Laver, later a top-ranked player in the world.  So, he was technically telling the truth.

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