Scientology, Winning! We Hear from the Church's #1 Student

Marty Rathbun tells me a story from when he was still the second-highest ranking executive in the Church of Scientology.

It was some time after Arnold Schwarzenegger's November, 2003 election to governor of California, which had become the subject of conversation in David Miscavige's Land Rover.

"Miscavige was driving, and Tom Cruise was in the passenger seat. I was sitting behind Miscavige, and Michael Doven was sitting behind Cruise. At some point, Tom said, 'If Arnold can become governor, I can become president.' And Miscavige got really excited and said, 'Absolutely!' And the thing is, Tony, he meant it," Rathbun told me.

I love that story.

Rathbun knew Doven very well. From 2001 to 2003, Rathbun had audited Tom Cruise and was in daily contact with the two of them. But by 2004, Rathbun was out of Scientology and had gone so far into seclusion, rumors circulated on the Internet that he had died.

But in 2009, he resurfaced and started his blog, "Moving On Up A Little Higher," which savagely criticized Miscavige and quickly became a key component in a growing Independent Scientology movement.

The next time Rathbun saw Doven, it was under rather odd circumstances.

It was April, 2010. Rathbun had been blogging a little more than a year, and his site had become a beacon for new defectors, who were leaving the church and making their way to Corpus Christi. (Rathbun lives in a small town nearby, Ingleside on the Bay, Texas.)

The latest escapee from Scientology's secretive California desert base was John Brousseau, and he made a beeline for Rathbun's home.

Rathbun arranged for Brousseau to stay in a hotel in a nearby town, and took the precaution of having a friend book the room to throw off the church's Office of Special Affairs -- its intelligence and covert operations wing. But in less than a day, Rathbun says, Brousseau had been found. Showing up at his hotel were Tommy Davis -- then Scientology's chief spokesman -- and three other church members. (All of whom, Rathbun notes, are now out of the organization.)

When Brousseau told Rathbun that he had company, Rathbun says he quickly jumped in a vehicle and started to head over there. But he had to screech to a halt, he says, when he found four cars, each with four people, bearing down on him and blocking both lanes of his road.

Rathbun watched as out of one of the four cars, Michael Doven emerged. Rathbun today says he wishes he had a video camera with him and presence of mind to tape the incident (today he always has one with him), but instead he gunned his car and blew past the roadblock. Soon he was with Brousseau, and he took him to Corpus Christi, and gathered with his attorney. In the meantime, he called Mike Rinder, another former church executive who had recently defected, and asked him to fly over from Florida to help him out. Rinder was soon on a plane and on his way.

As Rathbun went to the Corpus Christi airport to pick up Rinder, he had a fascinating telephone conversation -- which he taped.

It was with Michael Doven, who, you'll hear, wants to talk to Marty about what had just happened.

Try to keep this background in mind as you listen to this remarkable conversation from April, 2010. Rathbun was once one of the most powerful executives in the church, but now he operates independently in South Texas, and his blog seems to be wreaking havoc in the official church as more longtime, high-paying church members leave to join with Rathbun in the independence movement.

Doven, on the other hand, has just taken part in a wild church operation -- an attempt to block Rathbun while other church operative descend on Brousseau, probably to intimidate him into coming back into the fold.

Doven has to somehow explain himself and make Rathbun feel like the one who is out of line. Rathbun, meanwhile, tells Doven that "the church is dead," and it seems to hit his old friend very hard.

I'm providing a transcript of the conversation, which Rathbun had put on his blog. It's lengthy, but I think it's remarkable, and something we hadn't reported here before.

It's an opportunity to listen to Michael Doven as he explains himself after doing the church's dirty work, and before he goes on his mission to be the first to complete the Golden Era of Knowledge...

Here's the transcript:




MARTY: Hi, what's happening?

MICHAEL: Well, uh, love to chat. Uh, love to chat you up a little bit, and see if I can inject some sanity into this thing.

MARTY: Inject some what?

MICHAEL: Sanity.

MARTY: Into what?

MICHAEL: This whole scene, Marty. This whole ... this whole scene, you know?

MARTY: Yeah, well, you know I'm willing to talk to anybody on any subject, my Grade 0 is fully in. Uh, but I don't think you know me well enough to know the incorrect way to approach me is to have 12 people ... or 16 people in 4 cars descend on my place.

MICHAEL: I understand that. I mean you don't know me well enough to know ... I actually understand that.

MARTY: I know .. I know you know. But yet .. but yet you DO it. And that is the frightening thing. I mean there's this gamemanship, this intimidation stuff, and you're being a vehicle for it. And I know that you know that it's not right.

MICHAEL: Yeah, yeah. Well that's uh ... that's not my know ...

MARTY: I know that, Michael.

MICHAEL: ... everyone has their agenda. And ... and ... there are certain ... you know there are individuals with passionate feelings about .. you know ... communicating with you in different ways. Right? And uh ... and uh ... you know, although there may be some agreement as to ... uh ... the desire for that to occur ... and/or the uh ... you know, the ... what they want to communicate ... uh ... that's ... you know the HOW that takes place ... that's uh ... I'm calling you now. I'm calling you now. And uh ...

MARTY: Where's everybody else?

MICHAEL: Well I don't know everybody else ... I'm at McDonalds with ... uh ... two friends. Uh, I don't know if you know 'em, Michael and Denise Duff ...


MICHAEL: Michael and Denise Duff ...

MARTY: Uh huh.

MICHAEL: ... and Michael Roberts.

MARTY: Michael Roberts? And uh ...


MARTY: Wow. Who were the other guys in the car with you?

MICHAEL: That's who was in the car with me.

MARTY: The guy in the back with the blonde hair is Michael Duff?

MICHAEL: Uhhh ... this morning ... that is a dull morning ... No, that's not ... no Michael Duff has black hair.

MARTY: Right, he was in the front seat with the camera.

MICHAEL: Uh yeah ... uh yes, but the guy in the backseat's name ... I don't frankly know.

MARTY: Is it an Int guy?

MICHAEL: Um, I believe ... I don't know.

MARTY: You got a guy in your car you don't even know, Michael.

MICHAEL: Yeah, well there was a car load of individuals, and I didn't know ... have everybody's name.

MARTY: OK. I just uh ... this is very odd. I like to identify who it is who came to visit me.

MICHAEL: I know, I know that. I understand that. I ... I uh ... I would have chosen to ... uh .. you know ... I would have preferred to call ... email ... then show up. You know? And make an appointment. Something ... that would have been more ... uh ... more uh ... more my choice. I'm not going to make less of other people's choices, but that that would have been what I would have chosen to do. And uh ... it's just a straighter uh ... straighter approach ... you know?

MARTY: Mmm huh.

MICHAEL: So ... so ... uh ... so there you go. That's ... that's that.

[Car door opens and closes; sounds of cars driving by.]

MICHAEL: Umm ... I just wanted to talk about your ... you know, over a number of months ... it's just like ... All right, what's taking place here? HOW is it taking place? WHY is it taking place? WHAT is taking place? You know, how ... how ... how we get to this point, to where one who wants help and who wants to help people I know and care about ... uh ...

MARTY: [while walking] I'm helping people Michael now ... this is the wrong button ... I'm helping people now like I've never helped people before. In fact, I'm doing my job unobstructed like I've never been able to do my job before. So I don't ... that paradigm doesn't really work for me.

MICHAEL: Yeah, but let me ask you a question. At one point, before, just earlier, somewhere earlier, was there a sense of KNOWING you were helping with certainty and KNOWING that it was working, and KNOWING that you were contributing to something good? Was there that point?


MARTY: You told Tiziano that I was "the who". What did you mean by that?

MICHAEL: I told Tiziano that date coincident with the time that I spent with you, or directly after, were the lowest work years of my life.

MARTY: Mmm hmm.

MICHAEL: Now ...

MARTY: And you attribute that to me?

MICHAEL: I don't know where else to look, Marty.

MARTY: [Laugh]

MICHAEL: I can look at myself, I can take responsiblity for my shit, alright ...

MARTY: Everything was ... everything was hunky-dory until Dave got his talons into Tom [Cruise], and now Tom is a mini-me David Miscavige and that's your problem.

MICHAEL: Well, I ... I ... don't know ...

MARTY: And I saw it, and saw it, and I witnessed it and I observed it, and I was completely in a position where I had no obligation or no fish-to-fry with anybody, and I observed it.


MICHAEL: OK. And ... and..and..and... uh [unintelligible] ... that's your viewpoint.

MARTY: I mean ... it IS my viewpoint.

MICHAEL: Yeah, OK, you're entitled to that. I ... I got that. I ... I got that. I uh I don't work for him. I haven't for a number of years. I haven't seen him. I'm not currently ... that's not ... I'm not here to represent him, you know? I just have my own ... you know, whatever. I got that. But I got the sense back then ... did .. you know, you said you didn't, you weren't ... you had no agenda at the time. You know, and you were just ... but, were you helping? Did you help ...?

MARTY: To answer ... to answer your question ... an earlier time when I was helping ...?


MARTY: I think when I got Tom's case straightened out from all the quickie bullshit he got from Ray, Dave and Greg ... got his OT IV straightened out, got his OT V done, got him through his divorce, got him his life together ... got him to start helping people like he'd never helped before, like Jaime ... that was help.

MICHAEL: OK. OK. So you had a sense of helping, all right? So at what point did you decide "OK, now let's just fucking destroy them all, and destroy everything that I've just worked for ...."

MARTY: What are you talking about?

MICHAEL: "... and anybody that's had any gains."

MARTY: Where's this generality coming from? Where's this generality coming from?

MICHAEL: Well, what do you mean ... which generality?

MARTY: Destroy ... who am I destroying? Who have I ... attempted to destroy? Who have I ... I have not attempted to destroy anybody.

MICHAEL: Well, listen ...

MARTY: Who have I attempted to destroy? This is Dave's case you're running on me.

MICHAEL: No, no, no, no ... (unintelligible).

MARTY: Oh this is. This, this, this is. You're trying to put intentions into me that I have not demonstrated, I have not communicated. Nor have I demonstrated in my actions.

MICHAEL: Well OK, how about this? In terms of your actions, let me just ... just ask you ... in terms of the numbers of individuals around the planet who you know and have cared for at one point, who have had absolutely wonderful wins and gains, HOW are they being affected by your actions now?

MARTY: Who? Name somebody. Is there a problem with somebody?

[Sounds of interior airport noises in the background.]

MICHAEL: Any, any upstanding current member of Scientology ...

MARTY: Yeah ...?

MICHAEL: ... are you helping them or harming them?

MARTY: I'm helping them. And ...

MICHAEL: And HOW is that help?

MARTY: Because they are stalled and they are getting reverse Scientology applied to them. And they are becoming, and doing things against ... they're doing things against their nature, and they're being requ ... [to someone else next to Marty] ... hey Peter, how you doin' my man ... you got my marine corps cap on bro ...

PETER: [mumbling] Mmm ...yeah ...

MARTY: ... you big time ...

PETER: [mumbling] ...mmm ...mmm...

MARTY: ...been a long time we talked ...

PETER: [softly] ... yeah right ...

MARTY: ...all right bro, I'll catch ya. [To Michael] ... Umm, reverse Scientology's bein' run on all y'all. And the fact ...

MICHAEL: OK ... OK ...

MARTY: And the fact that you're having to go out and do things that go against your better judgement, is the proof of it. The fact that you admit you come out down here with 16 people to try to ambush Marty and try to intimidate him somehow ... I mean I know you Michael, you know that, you know me better than that. You spent two years with me, man.

MICHAEL: Well ... I uh ... I'm talking to you now.

MARTY: I know, and I'm talking to you.

MICHAEL: [Softly] I know. [*deep breath*] Here's the deal Marty. I ... you now, the people I run into ... and I got that you have attracted to you all the disaffecteds and those who have ...

MARTY: That's not true.

MICHAEL: ... bad things not ...

MARTY: That's not true.


MARTY: That's not true. The disaffecteds ... you know the Anonymous people called me ... and said I'm a much bigger threat to Miscav ... to them than Miscavige will ever be. Because they see the same thing. They see this guy as taking the whole ship down with him, and they're afraid of me. So the disaffecteds and people that want to attack Scientology, fear me more than they fear David Miscavige.

MICHAEL: Well ...

MARTY: So ...

MICHAEL: ... well what does that mea ...? ... I don't know what that means.

MARTY: What it means is that this conver ... what it means is that this conversation you're having with me should be being had with David Miscavige.

MICHAEL: Yeah, but ...

MARTY: He's your problem.

MICHAEL: But I see ...

MARTY: He's your problem.

MICHAEL: I got ... I got that you ... that that's your viewpoint. I see ... what I see is I'm winning ... and doing well ... and having wins ... and expressing those wins ... and sharing them ... and pitching in ... and joining orgs ... and helping ... that's what I'm seeing.

MARTY: Have you read my blog?

MICHAEL: I've read parts of it, not everything. I've read parts of it.

MARTY: Well, you know, it's like spike Lee says ... judge me by the body of my work, don't judge me on some individual thing, ok? Read the blog. It's like we're ... it's like two ships passing in the night right now. I wear my ... I wear my Self in the wide open, and I bare my soul. It's all there for the whole world to see. And for you to start telling me that I'm doing things to *attack* uh ... multiple ... even multiple individuals, let alone uh, you know ... multitudes of people ... it's just inaccurate.

MICHAEL: Well how are you HELPING all of those of us, including yourself in earlier years ... [inintelligible] ... put some chance of hope there for people ... how is that helping?

MARTY: I don't know ... I don't know where to begin with you, because it's all there. Scientology's been hijacked. It's been hijacked for the personal aggrandizement of a extremely egotistical person.

MICHAEL: So what are you gonna do, take it back? Or just give it away, or just destroy it? What's the plan there? Wreck it because it was hijacked? Or make it better?

MARTY: Take it back? What you mean "take it back, destroy, hijack" ... no ... what I ...

MICHAEL: I don't know, what are you going to do with it?

MARTY: What I'm doing with it is applying it. Applying it as it was intended to be applied. And making it safe for others to do so. You guys gotta wake up and smell the coffee, man. The Church is dead, man.

MICHAEL: That's not true for me and thousands of others, but if that's true for that's true for you, and I'm sorry to hear that.

MARTY: The Church is dead. He killed it. It's dead.


MARTY: I'm doing that right now, man.


MARTY: That's why you need to ... that's why you need to do your homework ... instead of just taking orders from DM ... and find out who you're talking to, because you're talking to a reality point ....

MICHAEL: I haven't talked to him or seen him in two fucking years!

MARTY: And you're going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that you're not following his orders right now ... you tell me Tommy Davis uh ... commandeered this whole plan and figured out to send 20 people down here?

MICHAEL: I'm telling you I volunteered to come and speak with you because that's what I wanted.

MARTY: Because we need some straight R on this ... I mean if we're gonna have a talk, let's talk R, let's not talk bullshit.

MICHAEL: OK, I'll tell you straight, I volunteered to come because I wanted to talk to you.

MARTY: You wanted to *stop* me? Where's that at, man?

MICHAEL: I wanted to get in comm. And I gotta tell you, you must know by now ... that that probably isn't too popular.

MARTY: I know, it's completely unpopular.


MARTY: Utterly, I understand that.

MICHAEL: So that tells you where I stand, you know.

MARTY: Shheesh ... Michael, you came down with 20 freakin people, please.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Well ...

MARTY: I gotta pick somebody up, I'm gonna have to call you back, I'm sorry they're coming in right now. And I've got one of your guys is video-recording me, in the uh .. in the ... in the ... you wanna tell these guys to back off, or do you wanna ...

CHRIS SMITH: Who are you talking to?

MARTY: I'm talking to him.

MICHAEL: They're not my guys.

CHRIS SMITH: No, I'm talking to you right now. No, I'm actually talking to you right now.

MARTY: I've got Chris Smith doing a confrontation with me ...

CHRIS SMITH: I'm doing confrontation?

MARTY: And a guy's got a video camera in my face ...

CHRIS SMITH: Now this is Marty "Destroyer" Rathbun ...

MARTY: you wanna talk?...

CHRIS SMITH: ... being videotaped. Who is it you're talking to Marty? Who could be more important than us?

MARTY: Here you go ...

MICHAEL: Now we're ...

MARTY: (Back into the phone.) I gotta go. I'll talk to you later.

Well, it's too bad that Michael decided not to talk to me. I think it would be fascinating to ask him about going from that raid of Marty Rathbun's house to then becoming the first person to complete David Miscavige's do-over of Hubbard's materials.

Anyway, for this Thursday's stats, let's give Scientology a little upstat for Michael Doven's dedication and optimism. The church really needs it after the brutal couple of weeks it's had.

Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications. | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


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You know Marty Rathbun is almost as thin skinned as the church of scientology.  I posted to his website about this article, congratulating him on going from hunter to hunted, and freeing the runaways instead of enslaving them, and he locked me out of his website.  I actually was contratulating him even on his bravery.  But its a a pretty exclusive club over on his blog.

Thank God for the Village Voice.



When Doven opens his mouth, Chill EB's erection goes slack.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

Man. Tony is on fire! I have to admit a lot of juicy stories are coming out into the light. I can't wait to see what's next?


That's a whole lot of words to say exactly nothing. On both sides, though Marty's a little more comprehensible -- unfortunately for him, that means his bs is easier to understand. (He thinks Anonymous is afraid of him? Really?)

Scientologists spend their lives unlearning how to communicate and think. That's not Miscavige's doing, it's L. Ron Hubbard's. If Marty helps some people "blowing" get closure, fine, but I hope most of them eventually see Scientology and Hubbard for what they are. The scam is Hubbard's. The natural outcome of the organization he created includes prison camps, forced marriages, forced abortions, covered-up rapes, etc. Doing something about that would be "HELPING", unlike sitting in a room holding cans.


 'links' don't get posted, although you do get a message it's awaiting moderation.  Break up the link with (dot) etc. and don't use 'html' or other stuff

Richard C. Mongler
Richard C. Mongler

Tony, check the comments in the moderation queue please.  I posted one 6 hours ago with a link to the Michael Doven speech on video.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

Isn't Tom Cruise a OT-7, can he fly yet? Or does he have to wait until he takes courses at the "SP" building, then he can fly?

I was just wondering because it would save the motion picture companies a lot of money on accident insurance etc. They wouldn't have to use "safety cables" on Tom while he's doing his stunts because he's able to fly. If he were to fall off a building he could land softly to the ground without harming himself.

I wonder if Michael Doven can fly too?

Jefferson Hawkins
Jefferson Hawkins

Michael Doven has shown us once again that Scientology is all about "tools for life." Join up and you too can become a tool for life.


If this guy completed every possible fucking course there is, does that mean he can now fully exteriorize and float about the room? Isn't that's what you find on the last step of the bridge - the ability to leave your body and go completely batshit insane?  


  Can Michael be a little more specific?  For example, did he know how to use a dictionary before he joined Co$?  That is one of the most common "wins" I hear about.


  Tony, wasn't Jason Beghe the #1 student or poster boy at one time?


Tony how is your traffic today? Business Insider just linked your story from this week.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

MICHAEL: Umm ... so ... uh ... you know...uh...uh...I mean...uh..I don't..uh..know what...I am talking ..muh...Miscavige...and...omnomnomnom...uh...Tom Cruise's ass...Tom...uh...mmm...Tom be the next...President of...yea...the...United States...then he...will...clear the planet of...uh.. bad shrimp...and..uh...oh yea...and outlaw closets.

Boy, for someone who has completed the entire "Golden Age Of Knowledge," he sure doesn't sound very confident or smart.


Michael Is now a Power FSM!  AKA Power "Field Staff Member" they make money luring their friends and acquaintances into the cult....cashing in on anyone he can sucker onto the bridge.!  Michael Is gonna try and convince the suckers hes having huge wins... He makes $$$$ as a Power FSM ....its a pay to play Cult Pyramid Scam....Michael motivation to advertise his gains and wins...Is because hes a Power FSM and gets a 10% or higher kickback for ever dolt who hands over money for Scientology Books or  courses...Michaels spiritual gain comes at the expense of a suckers emptied bank account..  


A upstat Tony? The sarcasm is so heavy you could be a Brit.


  Tony, this is slightly off topic, but where is that great Miglio response you mentioned a few days back?


What you have to keep in mind about Michael Doven and most of the Scientologists mentioned in this piece is that they are ACTORS. Some actors may be bright, but I happen to know most of the people mentioned here, and they're dumb. I met Doven when he was in the late Manu Topou's acting class. Manu was a very accomplished and well known actor when he got into Scientology. I believe he did Black Elk Speaks on Broadway. He was in the movies Hawaii, A Man Called Horse, and others. This is important - the longer he remained in Scientology, the worse his career became. This occurs with MOST actors in Scientology. Robert F. Lyons, Karen Black, Lee Purcell, there are many of them who have that arc.

Michael Roberts is one. He was famous for playing the pimp in the TV series "Baretta" and didn't do much after that. While he still had that job, he started a Scientology-based drug prevention program for kids. Naturally, that fizzled after a while.

The first people to take Denice Duff seriously as an actress were myself and Manu Topou. We cast her as the lead in a play that was going to be put on in a theater Manu had built in the bottom of the Scientology building in the middle of Hollywood. It was a beautiful place that Jason Robards Jr. (a friend of Manu) raved about. Naturally, some idiot executive of Scientology at the time decided they needed the space for storage, and had the theater destroyed so we didn't put on the play. That's an example of Scientology "management" for you.

Tommy Davis is the son of Anne Archer, who thinks she's Hollywood royalty because she's Marjorie Lord's daughter (big TV star on "Make Room for Daddy" with Danny Thomas in TV's earlly days). Anne is as dumb as Doven, and did the "Key to Life" course at AOLA (basically a grammar course with illustrations done by Disney artists) because she did so poorly in school. As anyone can determine watching Davis on video, he's about as bright as a burned-out lightbulb.

So Doven got lucky for a few years and was Cruise's suck-up. He made a lot of money, bought a house in Pacific Palisades. And he "circled the wagons" with the other Scientology "celebrities" and remains in that closed-loop idiot brigade, marching in lockstep, doing what he's supposed to do as a good boy. They blow so much smoke up each other's asses it probably smells like a burnt-out building when they leave.

I've been there among them; I'm not exaggerating whatsoever.

The scene of Tom Cruise crowing that he can be President to David Miscaviage shows you not merely how insane and delusional he is and they are, it illustrates what a wacky bubble these people live in. That's why most of Doven's pictures are of other Scientologists. (BTW, did Miscaviage ever finish high school? Don't think he did.)

It's really too bad. I liked Doven well enough, Duff the same, Roberts OK, but they all have the personality of bouncy puppies until they're directed to destruction like Misavige the puppet master does so often, then they become yapping chihuahuas.

There you have the products of Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. And he wanted a whole planet of creatures like that.


Doven speaks like he has Chill EB's erection tapping his tonsils.

John P.
John P.

The photo you posted of Michael Doven at the top of the article looks frighteningly like a cross between Ben Stiller and Keith Richards.  


" I have achieved the greatest gains".  This was first said by Yvette Blanco, the first "perfect clear, who was then asked what color tie Hubbard was wearing.   She didn't remember (laughter).  LRH re-did the tech, and this time came up with the real, first aberration-free clear, John Grisham, who was gay (which, according to LRH, is an aberration). 

Andrew Robertson
Andrew Robertson

 Tony is the Big Bad Wolf.  Scientology is Little Red Riding Hood.  Her father is OSA, collapsed in a drunken stupor, many mile away in the forest, his broken axe on the floor.

"What big teeth you've got Grandma." said Little Red Riding Hood.


And that was that.

Richard C. Mongler
Richard C. Mongler

or just google "Golden Age of Knowledge Full Golden Age of Knowledge Completion SUCCESS VIDEO". It is on the lrh-books website. 


No.....Jason was not the #1 student at one time.  He was the MOTHERFUCKIING #1 student at one time.  


He says he went up a lot of grades very quickly, so he was thought of as one of the church's best examples. The way he said it, DM considered him a poster boy. But then he got stuck on his Bridge, etc.

Myriam Breitman
Myriam Breitman

It's about freaking time. I mean oiliness table? Time machine? Pain station? Am I the only one finding it funny? I'm surprised Jon Stewart or Bill Maher did not jump on it straight away. And of course I can always dream that Ricky Gervais will make a joke about the sauer kraut and sausage smell wall at the Golden  Globe's awards.


I tried to word-clear "umm" but it isn't listed in my dictionary.  Did I mis-spell it?


He certainly did not sound confident about anything.  Dis-jointed and confusing.

please explain
please explain

and then there is the big acting production of manu tupou doing the hymn of asia - er... won't comment on that piece of poetry. then the acting gig of LRH - getting installed as the metraiya by a 'buddhist shinto' shrine in japan - only no one told the buddhists... it was in the adsvance ' buddhist shinto - and the proof is in an early edition of backgounds and ceremonies, karen black was such a 'significancy' student, doven and mesinens just came to OZ, didn't i see more great acting back then - jan eastgate marrying heber, great PR but she actually married trevor meyer... needs verifying but sure it was in an advance mag


Scientology is the kryptonite of creative thinking and artistic impulses.

There's one SP editor still in the rafters who still refuses to correct the main typo:

It's typed as  Rundowns.  It's actually Run Down.


Wasn't the first clear's name John McMasters?


I am a 27 years old doctor,mature and beautiful. and now i am seeking a good man who can give me real love, so i got a sername Andromeda2002 on  Agedate.СòM, a nice and free place for younger women and older men,or older women and younger men, to interact with each other.Maybe you wanna check out or tell your friends.


I fucking LOVE the way Jason Beghe talks! :-)


Hurry on over there. The $cion basement goons are filling up the comments with "what's wrong with OUR Mecca" garbage

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

LOLZ. Yeah, not very able. I guess he's OSA like Jenna Elfman. lol

Stan D'Teque
Stan D'Teque

Heber married Jane Devlin, OSA from Oz, not Jan Eastgate.

I suspect that Ms Eastgate/Meyer may be another to soon complete the whole "Base-sucks" line-up, except she'll be doing hers at the Silverwater Womens Correctional Facility just near the site of the Sydney 2000 Olympics.

I'm wondering how incoherent her "success story" will be.


I never heard Manu do that but I heard Yvonne Jentzsch read it with musical accompaniment. I believe I still have an audio tape of her doing that. Yeah, Hubbard was working overtime trying to get recognized by the Buddhists. A friend of mine is the Dalai Lama's bodyguard - I'd ask him to see what the DL thinks of that but I wouldn't want to kill the DL from making him laugh too hard. You mean "Meskimens" I imagine - Jim (Marion Ross' son) and his wife Tamara? Jim is a great actor who could have been. I remember Ron Howard and Henry Winkler trying to talk him into getting the hell out of the cult and into his career, but he wouldn't do it, what a waste. No idea on Jan and Heber. Damn, such a confused bunch.


Got that right. At one point I caught myself thinking in terms of nothing but psychiatrists as villains in scripts and I realized I was brainwashed. Since leaving the cult, I've known numerous mental health pros and had them as writing students, too. They might have problems at times individually, but compared to Scientology celebrities and executives, they're all Einstein.


Nope. The first Scientology Clear was a woman apparently named "Sonya Bianca". She was presented to the world by L Ron Hubbard on August 10, 1950, before an audience of thousands at the Los Angeles Shrine Auditorium.  Google is your friend.


  Yes, I was confusing him with someone else--but then, I never claimed to be "clear."


I think there were a few people designated as the "first clear". McMaster was the first non-embarrassing one, I think.

But of course he was declared an SP later on. 


"The communication courses were obviously not his best course by far."

The sad truth of it is, that they were.  The HAS (Hubbard Apprenctice Scientologist) course was the first service received by most of the older generation of scilons, and couldn't teach them how to communicate much better, but did teach them that TRs (or other mind-emptying sorts of meditation) could put one into a pleasant, altered state.  Most who went back for more did so because they thought that it would get better as they continued.  But it really doesn't.  The "Comm Course" is about as good as it gets.


Yes, I expected him to break out with, "What are your crimes?  Do you rape babies?"This is what $300,000+ buys you?The communication courses were obviously not his best course by far.


Check this out on HuffPo -

Jim Meskimen Does 25 Celebrity Impressions Reciting Shakespeare's 'Richard III' - and ask yourself, why does someone this talented not have a major part on a prime time sitcom, and why didn't he ever? 

Answer: $cientology


Jim Meskimen looks s a old as his mother.

please explain
please explain

manu introduced it now i see on google, the thing is it is buddhists shinto?? oh - yeah it is a mad world, but the 'tech' has a lot of uses and some info is great, mostr gleaned from all over, before old out of print books could be 'revamped'.


I was referring to Jgg's comment about the clear who came after the "first" clear.

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