VIDEO: The Debbie Cook Interview

We can't remember a time when the attorneys of the Church of Scientology gave up on a case like they did today when they withdrew their request for a temporary injunction that would keep Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten under a gag order until the church's lawsuit against them could come to trial.

That trial may still happen, but for now Cook and Baumgarten are free to talk to the press. So several reporters sat down with them Friday to talk about where they go from here.

These videos take some time to upload. I'll be posting them as quickly as I can...



Debbie Cook Coverage in the Village Voice...

January 1: Scientology rocked by allegations of greed in e-mail to 12,000 church members

January 3: Is Scientology imploding? Watching the panic after a former executive dares to question church management

January 4: Scientology in crisis: Debbie Cook's transformation from enforcer to whistleblower

January 6: Scientology in turmoil: Debbie Cook's e-mail, annotated

January 31: Scientology sues Debbie Cook over her New Year's Eve e-mail

February 2: Debbie Cook files to dissolve Scientology's temporary restraining order: We talk to her attorney, Ray Jeffrey

February 3: Debbie Cook's motion denied: Scientology's restraining order remains in place until Thursday hearing

February 4: Scientology wants it both ways: The church's opposite legal strategies in Florida and Texas

Also, please see our primer, "What is Scientology?"


Tony Ortega is the editor-in-chief of The Village Voice. Since 1995, he's been writing about Scientology at several publications.

tortega@villagevoice.com | @VoiceTonyO | Facebook: Tony Ortega

Keep up on all of our New York news coverage at this blog, Runnin' Scared


SCIENTOLOGY IN THE VILLAGE VOICE

[All recent stories] | [What is Scientology?] | [Top 25 People Crippling Scientology]
[Commenters of the Week] | [Thursday 2pm Stats!] | [Scientology vs. South Park]
[This Week Aboard the Apollo] | [Sunday Funnies]

FEATURED INVESTIGATIONS

[Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis secretly recorded discussing "disconnection"]
[Benjamin Ring, LA deputy sheriff, wants you to spend your 401K on Scientology]
[Scientologists: How many of them are there, anyway?]
[Scientology hates clean ice: The "Fair Game" operation that should turn your stomach]
[Scientology hates clean ice, part 2: Another target, and the web as weapon]
[Paulette Cooper, Scientology's original and worst nightmare: a Thanksgiving tribute]

THE TOP 25 PEOPLE CRIPPLING SCIENTOLOGY

1. L. Ron Hubbard | 2. David Miscavige | 3. Marty Rathbun | 4. Tom Cruise | 5. Joe Childs and Tom Tobin | 6. Anonymous | 7. Mark Bunker | 8. Mike Rinder | 9. Jason Beghe | 10. Lisa McPherson | 11. Nick Xenophon | 12. Tommy Davis | 13. Janet Reitman | 14. Tory Christman | 15. Andreas Heldal-Lund | 16. Marc and Claire Headley | 17. Jefferson Hawkins | 18. Amy Scobee | 19. The Squirrel Busters | 20. Trey Parker and Matt Stone | 21. Kendrick Moxon | 22. Jamie DeWolf | 23. Ken Dandar | 24. Dave Touretzky | 25. Xenu

HELD ABOARD THE FREEWINDS: TALES OF THE SEA ORG

[Valeska Paris, held against her will from 1996 to 2007 on Scientology's cruise ship]
[Ramana Dienes-Browning, marriage at 16, sexual interrogation, life in the engine room]
[Melissa Paris, Valeska's sister: forced to marry at 16]

SCIENTOLOGY VS. SOUTH PARK: INVESTIGATION AS RETALIATION

[Scientology targeted South Park's Parker and Stone in an investigation]
[More documents in the South Park probe: instructions to send in a young mole]
[Scientology responds in typical fashion] | [Lloyd Kaufman confirms the probe]
[Mark Ebner also investigated after South Park involvement]
[Mark Chauppetta, private eye, explains what Scientology operatives look for]

MARTY RATHBUN AND THE SIEGE OF SOUTH TEXAS

[Scientology has Rathbun arrested] | [Rathbun and Mark Bunker reveal surprising ties]
In Germany with Ursula Caberta: [Announcing plans] | [Press conference] | [Making news about Tom Cruise, Bill Clinton, and Tony Blair] | [Post-trip interview]
The Squirrel Busters: [Goons with cameras on their heads] | [Rathbun's open letter to neighbors] | [Ingleside on the Bay, Texas rallies to Rathbun's cause] | [Squirrel Buster's claim to be making a "documentary"] | [VIDEO: "On a Boat"] | ["Anna" sent to creep out Monique Rathbun] | [Squirrel Busters go hillbilly] | [A videographer blows the whistle on the goon squad] | [Ed Bryan, OT VIII, shows the power of Scientology's highest levels]

SCIENTOLOGY SPYING AND "FAIR GAME"

[Secret Scientology documents spell out spying operation against Marc Headley]
[Scientology's West U.S. spies list revealed] | [Scientology's enemies list: Are you on it?]
Spy operation against Washington Post writer Richard Leiby: [Part 1] | [Part 2]
[A Scientology spy comes clean: Paulien Lombard's remarkable public confession]
[Scientology advertises for writers in Freedom magazine]
[Accidental leak shows Scientology spy wing plans to "handle" the Voice]
[Lori Hodgson and Disconnection: "No one's going to take my eternity away"]

SCIENTOLOGY AND CELEBRITIES

[Hey, Scientology Celebrity, Here's Your Media Training Checksheet!]
[Tom Cruise and X Factor's Stacy Francis singing together on the Freewinds]
[X Factor's Stacy Francis: Her first husband, Michael Sandlofer, answers abuse claims]
[Tom Cruise and Baby Suri embarrassed by news item, so someone must pay]
["Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [Tom Cruise likes coconut cake] | [Tom Cruise has a sense of humor] | ["Tom Cruise not a kook!"] | [Paulette Cooper on Tom Cruise]
[Paul Haggis, director of Crash, issues an ultimatum, leaves the church]
[Character actor Jason Beghe defects noisily] | [Actor Michael Fairman reveals his "suppressive person" declaration] | [Michael Fairman talks to the Voice]
[Giovanni Ribisi as David Koresh: Scientology-Branch Davidian link makes sense]
[Russell Brand weds ex-Scientologists in wild ceremony] | [Skip Press on Haggis]
[Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology's retaliation is "scary and pathetic"]
Grant Cardone, NatGeo's "Turnaround King": [Doing Scientology's dirty work?] | [Milton Katselas complained about Cardone's smear job] | [Cardone runs to Huffpo]
[Philip Boyd, Saving Grace actor, rips "the business that is Scientology"]

JANET REITMAN'S INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY

[Our review of Inside Scientology] | [An interview with Janet Reitman] | [A report from Reitman's first book tour appearance] | [At the Half-King: Reitman not afraid]
[Scientology doesn't like Inside Scientology] | [Q&A at Washington Post]
[A roundup of Reitman's print reviews, and why isn't she on television more?]

HUGH URBAN'S THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY

[A review of Urban's scholarly history of the church] | [An interview with Hugh Urban]

EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS SPEAK OUT

["The Money Machine": another blockbuster St. Pete Times investigation]
[Marc Headley: "Tom Cruise told me to talk to a bottle"] | [The Nancy Many interview]
[Sympathy for the Devil: Tory Christman's Story] | [Jeff Hawkins' Counterfeit Dreams]
[86 Million Thin Dimes: The Lawrence Wollersheim Saga] | [Mike Rinder on spying]

OVERSEAS NEWS

[Scientology in Israel: Arson, attempted murder, paranoia -- and a visit by the Voice!]
[Scientology dodges a bullet in Australia] | [Scientology exec Jan Eastgate arrested]
[All hell breaks loose in Israel] | [Scientology sees fundraising gold in the UK riots]
[Aussie former rugby pro Chris Guider calls David Miscavige "toxic" and "violent"]
[Stephen Cox, UK church newbie, pledges 20K pounds] | [Biggi Reichert: A German Lisa McPherson?] | [The Birmingham trove: 7,000 internal e-mails]
[Australian farmer blamed for giving Tom Cruise a bad shrimp, loses her friends, family]

ODD VIDEOS AND ODDER NEWS

[Scientology chillin' with hip hop!] | [The curious career of Scientology rapper Chill EB]
[Chill EB and me: the Voice interviews Scientology's in-house rapper]
[Scientology singalong, "We Stand Tall"] | [Captain Bill Robertson and "Galactic Patrol"]
[Scientology wins a major award!] | [Scientology wants your money: Meet Dede!]
[Birmingham in the House! The "Ideal" dance mix] | [Scientology and the Nation of Islam]
[When Scientology was hip] | [Sad: David Miscavige makes fun of his own fundraisers]
[Freedom magazine parodies The New Yorker. Hilarity ensues.]
[Scientology surf report: Anonymous parties outside the New York "org"]

THE VIEW INSIDE THE BUBBLE

[A scientologist's letter to the Voice and its readers] | [Scientology silent birth]
[Tad Reeves: Scientology might listen to this guy] | [More Tad Reeves and family]
[Scientology never forgets: A heartwarming telemarketing holiday miracle]
[Desperate Scientology fundraising caught on video]


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171 comments
Lkenter7
Lkenter7

Cook was quite willing to be smiling ,blond Igor to Dr. Miscavige Frankenstein until he began operating on Her.

Seayaorg
Seayaorg

you only need to look at the oods the village voice has been publishing to see the kind lrh throwing people overboard twice blindfolded. I know someone who was an lrh favourite. she got pregnant to her husband and he got beached for leading her to get pregnat - counter-intention and i mean beached - on an island with one set of clothes

Old OT7
Old OT7

Just devastating to the cult.  Absolutely cult shattering.  T.O., way to go! 

Villagedianne
Villagedianne

I can't look into Debbie Cook's mind or heart to know what she is thinking or feeling but I can speculate:  That she is willing to keep quiet about Int Base crimes in order to have the opportunity to "reform" Scientology suggest that she still believes in "The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics."  This "greatest good" policy is truly evil, perhaps the most evil thing in Scientology because it can be used to justify anything, absolutely anything.  It encourages people to abandon their own moral code and to feel that there is merit in doing so. 

JustCallMeMary
JustCallMeMary

The Gang's All Here video will go down in history, for sure!

LightOfTruth123
LightOfTruth123

Y'all may want to watch a video on YouTube called "Cults: An In Depth Look At The Experience Of Being In Cults And Breaking Free From Them"

It's an hour long interview with Janja Lalich (Author: "Take Back Your Life, Recovering From Cults and Abusive Relationships"), Steve Hassan (Author: "Combating Cult Mind Control") and Lawrence Velvel (Dean of Massachusetts School of Law who litigates against cults).

Lalich early on in the video talks about how she was one of the harshest enforcers in the cult she was in, in which she had a leadership role. These things are not easy to understand, but mind control can never be underestimated.

She forced disconnections, broke up couples, participated in psychological abuse of others, and many other horrible things. She did not grow up in the cult, she was recruited as a grown-up, and she had a COMPLETE personality change in the cult. Debbie Cook's situation is worse, she only ever knew Scientology.

Today Lalich is professor of Sociology at California State University, and she has been helping cult victims ever since.

Also watch the "Solomon Asch Conformity Experiment" and "Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment" on Youtube.

Cult psychology is a unique branch of social psychology, a dark one, where bizarre and even frightening observations require some of the best minds we have, to try and make sense of this social animal of which we are all a part.

DeckardCain
DeckardCain

If she witnessed a crime and purposefully does not report it, she's guilty of a crime herself.  I really wish the Indies/culties/Debbie would get that through their thick skulls and stop worrying about how it impacts their precious tech.  I know they are in a cult-fog but that's not an allowed legal defense and it is not a valid excuse.

I really hope that her attorney advised her to talk to law enforcement and she heeds that advice.  

Kate Bornstein
Kate Bornstein

OK, I'm glad for Debbie Cook. I'm glad Scientology tucked tail, turned and ran. But whoa—Scientology was never designed to be kind. LRH said over and over that Scientologists are not to turn the other cheek, not to put up with dilettantes, and were under strict orders to attack and shatter their enemies. That's not kindness. Neither are all the blindfolded overboards ordered by the Commodore—or the children sent to spend days in the chain locker. That's not kind. 

As to disconnect being cancelled in 1968 and later reinstated by DM, I don't recall that being the case. In all the years I was a member, if someone left or was declared SP, we were ordered to disconnect. It's all in the PTS/SP policies written personally by Hubbard. When I left in 1981, Hubbard was in charge. My friend and family were ordered to disconnect from me. 

Maybe Debbie is simply in shock from all the events of the past two months. Maybe she's misremembering. Maybe she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Whatever—I'm still glad she's free. I'm still glad the little dictator ran up the white flag. And I wish her a speedy and gentle recovery from her post traumatic shock.

Lkenter7
Lkenter7

Debbie Cook and David Miscavige are BOTH  "Ron's children". Just as he had two faces these two represent the carrot and the stick he used to get people under control and then keep them under control. If people excuse Debbie Cook's duplicity and disregard for other victims as the result of " growing up in Scientology"  then the same holds true for Miscavige. If the "Ex-Scientology Kids" can figure out the bullchitt then so can Cook and Miscavige and all the others who did in fact leave and speak out. Cook and Miscavige certainly have been affected and infected by Hubbard but they were also affected and infected by their own greed and  drive for status. Hubbard counted on the baser instincts of humans. He was rarely disappointed. And these two are prime examples.   

Robindescamp
Robindescamp

What is so disturbing about watching this interview is you can tell Debbie Cook is a reasonably intelligent person. And yet, she described Hubbard and Scientology as "good" and "kind." Clearly Ms. Cook has not availed herself of the vast information on the Internet and elsewhere that illustrates quite the opposite about Hubbard and his "religion," neither of which are good nor kind. I suppose the brainwashing she has had since childhood is pretty effective.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

I think if the cameras weren't aloud in court things might have turned out differently in Debbie's case.

I noticed George Spencer typing and checking his laptop frequently. I wonder if he was in contact with the lil' Nazi youth during the hearing?

Tony, I know you were to busy typing like a madman, was anybody able to glance at any of the lawyers laptops? Were any of them on Skype?

Radio Paul
Radio Paul

From what I can tell the cult dropped the gag order but can anyone validate if the suit itself has been dropped? 

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

In part 7 of the Village Voice YouTube clips, Joe Childs asks Debbie how could Scientology factually be reformed. I've given way too much time thinking about this exact question, and the short answer is, it could be done very easily.  

It wouldn't take much to make the whole mess happy for a short period, at least.

First  issue a cancellation of ALL the unjust Excommunications ever issued.  Board of Review policy applies.

Disband OSA and end ALL court suits against all "enemies" (Gerry Armstrong in particular and apologize however Gerry requests of them). The Way to Happiness booklet applies as the fundamental principles justifying disbanding OSA.  

Lower their pricees, stop their insane fundraising.   

THAT  done in week 1, would get them a spike in good media, and then because they aren't pissing everyone off anymore, they'd then have time to figure out major reform, like change from a fixed donation services church, to a normal tithing method church.

Their dissemination campaigns could then take on the ASI/Galaxy "Writers of the Future" flashy gordonesque pulp adventure style, and have science fiction superheroes come do the opening of the Clearwater Superpower Building!!!!

Ultimate Hubbard reference to knock out "low toned" Hubbard stifling rules, is Hubbard's own "Tone Scale".   Just rate Hubbard line by line, of what he ordered them to do, and only do things that are Tone 4 or above, Enthusiasm!

Theoracle
Theoracle

Tony, thank you for the excellent reporting and for posting these videos. Thank you for making that trek all the way to San Antonio. Clearly you are not in the business of journalism because you are glued to a chair and monitor.  It saddens me that after almost three decades of this woman's life spent to making the world a better place, her supporters in the courtroom could be counted on two hands. At least she had more than the suppressor. My deepest respect and admiration for the people there standing to push her up against this awful and clearly unjust burden of suppression.  You, and the others there, Marty, Mike and so on, are into the business of pushing people back up that have been torn down.  For every little moment we experience in humanity where one person cares about the other in front of them, white magic is spread forth that makes this world a little brighter, a little friendlier, a little saner, and a lot more promising.

Lliira
Lliira

Everyone who wishes Debbie Cook would stop praising L. Ron Hubbard, it's understandable. I wish it too. But this is a woman who's been in Scientology since she was a child. She didn't even start to know her legal rights until very recently. 

I can say, now, being myself, I would do differently. But I've been to public school and to college. I've been to the churches and temples of many religions. I've talked to different kinds of people who had different beliefs, and been able to choose with whom I associated. I've never been in a situation where someone else had absolute power over me and my entire family and all my friends. I've been able to read whatever I wanted to read. In other words, I've had (basically) a normal life.

Debbie Cook lived in a Scientology bubble her whole life until a couple years ago. She didn't know anything but Scientology. Read Sallydannce's Story for some idea of what Scientology does to one's mental processes. Scientologists can't even think in normal language; their minds have been crammed full of Hubbard's lies and paranoia, which exclude the possibility of critical thought. 

I think Debbie Cook might bring David Miscavige down. And that will bring Scientology down, because it can't exist while giving people the freedom to choose for themselves. Miscavige knows that Scientology needs an abusive absolute dictator at its head, or it will crumble. A few people might hold the cans until they die, but after that they'll join all the other cults that only exist in history books. Like the Shakers without the nice furniture.

Theoracle
Theoracle

It has become comical to read the slander and abusive comments here towards this woman, protesting HER abuse.  Where is the mercy?   The urge to harm others, is the common denominator between all parties in this Scientology war theater.  And it really doesn't matter what angle people are dramatizing it from.  It's the same purpose.  This really does not even have anything to do with Scientology or any study or practice.  People have characters, virtues, and responsibilities in life no matter where they find themselves in any game.  If you cannot treat others as you would want to be treated yourself,  you become part of a bacteria that feeds off a host. If everyone here, there, and everywhere, would take just ONE DAY of their life and excercise the golden rule, NOT according to other's lives but one's own, and then a second day, and so on.....  we would ALL be living in a better world and one's anger could be replaced with happiness.  Yes it is vital to know the truth.  YES everyone should know what is really going on and not be subject to abbracadabra.  But also there is a responsibility of being told the truth and what one chooses to do with it.  Using it for for further abuse and degradation only causes our society to become a bit more degraded.  Happiness starts "at home" within yourself as a result of your actions.  You will NEVER be able to "buy it"  from others .   People can only make it more possible for your own possibilities towards that, to become healthier choices.  Dragging this woman already clearly traumatized through even more abuse, is the making of a better life for you, her, or the world.

billy bob
billy bob

One thing that's pretty clear in these videos, Debbie Cook is quite upset that DM cut her off from her revenue stream of gullible Scientologists.

After 30 years of making her living by feeding off other Scientologists, she might have to do mundane work in the wog world!

She shows more emotion about her business losses than she does about the welfare of the people still held in the Hole.

Lkenter7
Lkenter7

Debbie cook knows full well that the disconnect policy was never revoked by Hubbard only the use of the term itself-in order to defeat criticism of the organization. Cook was complicit in the coverup  of Lisa McPherson's death. It's good that she's causing trouble for a vile organization but she is no better than the organization which she served for so long. She was and remains a "loyal officer" for the madman Hubbard and only fights Miscavige because the insanity finally got focused on her. As long as other people were the victims Cook was just fine.

billy bob
billy bob

"How many times in history has this happened where you get some Tyrant in charge...of some group, or some organization? It happens. It happens often!" - Debbie Cook, referring the current Scientology Leadership.

Oh Debbie, you're only halfway to the truth...then again, maybe deep down, you do know. "It happens often."It's happened TWICE now in the history of Scientology.

L Ron Hubbard was a vicious megalomaniac.  David Miscavige is a short, vicious megalomaniac.

Shawn
Shawn

Thank you Tony.  You are awarded Kha-Khan status for your most excellent coverage of the cult.

Lars
Lars

We know the Debbie is telling a lot of truth here.

But she needs to be careful.  When she paints Hubbard as an angel, and attributes all the evil to Miscavige, everyone knows she is flat-out lying. 

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

I do admire Debbie Cook, if she doesn't tell the rest of her story beyond the tip of the iceburg to the FBI, well, my opinion of her will change. She should be working diligently to rescue her (100) fellow scientologists and not just herself.

OTXV
OTXV

There is one issue that bugs me. Debbie keeps on insisting that it is all Miscavige fault and abuses only occur to those closer to him (and are mostly directed by him). It has been reported that the RPF at FLAG has also appalling conditions, where RPFers sleep in the Fort Harrisson parking lot breathing car fumes all day.

Also of note that Debbie Cook was instrumental in the bankruptcy of Maria Pia Gardini, an Italian citizen that was basically "extorted" of millions of dollars by Debbie; with Debbie cashing in a nice commission out of the "donated" money. 

DeckardCain
DeckardCain

Why was no one asking her the hard questions?  Why didn't anyone ask, "why didn't you think you should go to law enforcement after seeing people physically beaten and tortured?"

or

"Why did you try to coerce Scientology into leaving you alone in return for your silence on crimes they committed?  You even put that request in writing, please explain why you did that?"

or

"When are you going to the FBI, Debbie?"

sketto
sketto

Boy that Hubbard sure had life figured out, huh? Sure knew how to treat his fellow humans. I can see why so many people look to him for guidance. 

sketto
sketto

True. One of the worst elements of Scientology is the idea of KSW - to always place the organization of Scientology ahead of the rights, freedom or happiness of any individual. It's sick thinking and an unhealthy way to live. 

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

Thanks Kate.

Love to hear those 'this is what happened' personal experiences.

I think the whole white flag thing is a little premature... It was only the first 'skirmish'...

The battle has yet to be engaged.

sketto
sketto

Well said. People who rush to forgive those who helped Miscavige abuse for years - those like Debbie Cook, Mike Rinder, and Marty Rathbun - have to ask themselves what they would say if Miscavige renounced Scientology and blamed it all on Hubbard?

Why couldn't Miscavige pass the the responsibility to the man who indoctrinated him into the cult and be forgiven, just as so many people freely seek to forgive the abusers who merely were less abusive than Miscavige?

Lars
Lars

Not yet.  That is what we suspect, but it hasn't been stated formally yet. 

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

AND,

RETURN ALL MONIES REQUESTED BY FORMER DONATORS.

IMMEDIATELY.

skippress
skippress

Here's how it should be reformed...

END IT.

It's not a religion, it's a hypnotically-designed amalgam of bad science-fiction and fantasy woven together with things lifted from other philosophies but not credited.

"The Hole" should be emptied, the slaves rehabilitated to re-enter society, and all the money in $cientology's coffers seized to pay for the process and to pay off - in RICO terms - all those who have been victimized over the years. All its buildings should be sold to the highest bidder, and David Miscavige and other offenders should be tried like the Nazis at Nuremberg.

Lastly, any money remaining should be used to record testimonies of the human oppression of $cientology, akin to the "Shoah" project funded by Steven Spielberg for Holocaust survivors.

Nothing short of that would be just.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Would you go back as COB, Chuck, if they did all those things? Maybe threw in a Mercedes and 5 sets of The Basics, and a special rap song in your honor written by ChillyB?

I think it should be disbanded, buildings all sold off, and money distributed to former members by application, so people could get their money or salaries back, in today's dollars.

Then it should go back to being a parlor or internet activity. No training schools, front groups, offices or anything.

One thing the video shows though, is Debbie doesn't seem at all prepared to step into the COB role, or maybe this is just her contrite trial persona. If I were a believing cult member, I'd probably want her for COB though, just for her act of bravery in sending the email out.

The next step I would like to see, which Debbie's boldness may help with, is an executive who is ordered to the Hole and tells Miscavige to shove it, and goes straight to the media. Or, a guy who gets in trouble for slugging Miscavige back.

Another possibility? Revolt in the Hole.

Who knows? Maybe Debbie's act will cause a new wave of rebellion and/or blowing.

Debbie's idea of taking the scam back to its origins isn't a bad idea though: Astounding Science Fiction.

sketto
sketto

As much as I would cheer it, I don't see how Miscavige's demise would bring Scientology down. It has lasted 60 years, which beats the record of most cults. I don't see a good reason why a watered-down version of Scientology won't last. The Indies have already shown how Scientology could even have its first split-off variant sect. Compare it to Mormonism, another "religion" started by a known, proven fraud. But now Joseph Smith is something of a pseudo-saint and in another few hundred years, who will really care or know the truth, especially those who are raised in it and feel like its part of their community makeup? 

The only difference between Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Mormonism and Scientology is their ages. If you make it through the first few generations and bury the crazy truths (arks, miracles, locusts, thetans, Allah, God, Yahweh, Xenu) well enough in the past, you got yourself a religion with staying power.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

Oh. Hi Theoracle! You haven't been here in a long time.

TheHoleDoesNotExist
TheHoleDoesNotExist

I hear there's such a thing as "good" bacteria.

I see a person that needs to drag herself off and make herself at home in an FBI office.

I know mercy comes at its own pace, its own place, and in its own time.

I am sorry this is difficult to hear and see.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Bacteria feeding off a host? WTF? Your comment sounds confused and disturbed.

It's unlikely Debbie will read this. She has bigger fish to fry. We aren't dragging her through anything. Plus, if she were to read every comment, after being in a cult for so long, she needs exposure to thinking other than that of cult members. She's not going to get people's true opinions and feelings from anywhere else.

Hubbard is the one who wrote about using the law to harass and ruin anyone who interrupted his revenue stream. We just happen to think Miscavige is very much like Hubbard. Up until her last 7 months of service in the Sea Org, Debbie was Miscavige's loyal minion, soaking people like Maria Pia Gardini out of her fortune with glee, and covering up the death of Lisa M.

Theoracle
Theoracle

Does that last sentence ring true for you?

MarkStark
MarkStark

Debbie is the one being dragged into court. She has to defend herself. She isn't there to represent every person who was ever in the Hole or every person ever abused by David Miscavige or Scientology.

She might miss the rush or the delusion that by presiding over Flag, she was saving thousands of lives, or the planet, but if she settles into her business and new life, like most exes, she'll probably discover that it is a lot better being out and free.

If she proceeds with a case against the cult, we'll probably end up hearing all about her income and the perks she received.

There is some kind of stipulation on the executives earning too much, because of the IRS restriction. Before they left and spoke out, I assumed people like Rinder and Rathbun earned $50,000/year at least, but they didn't.

If this starts to balloon into way too much bad press for the cult, I predict DM will pay her off with a large settlement.

MarkStark
MarkStark

That's probably true. However, I see why legal posturing necessitates taking this stance. It would be overwhelming for Debbie to get involved with putting Scientology on trial, along with the machinations of David Miscavige. The cult would use the confusion in her arguments to crush her legally. Instead, she has to simplify her position, and explain what was done to her, and how it happened.

David Miscavige is Mr. Scientology, the Keeper of the Source, the man calling all the shots for the cult. Pointing out Miscavige's abuses, is damaging Scientology, whether Debbie, Marty or anyone wants it, or not.

In fact, ANY information about Scientology, that isn't an ad pointing people to buy books and spend money at an Org, damages it. It's a cult based on secrets and gaining control over members to keep paying into it, without them really knowing what is happening to them. It is designed to blow their minds, expand their space, and take all the money they can get.

When people read what they believe, and how workers are punished/imprisoned, and the kind of mess the dictator has gotten himself into with too many executives in the Hole, and his wife missing and all. That's a lot of problems for Scientology and David Miscavige. That's why he will never appear in a TV interview and why he doesn't want to be put on the stand in a courtroom.

If they are supposed to clear planet, yet their own group is often dysfunctional and led by a vicious dwarf who puts his underlings in prison... That's just not the kind of PR Scientology wants.

They want people to join because they think Tom Cruise is cool or they like his movies. They want curious adventurous types, especially people who are loaded and love trying new things, but are too self-absorbed, impulsive, desperate or confused, to do careful research on the Internet.

Because of the Internet, Scientology's market is shrinking rapidly, David Miscavige is all they have left. He is their tiny white hope on the last exit to Cultsville.

DeckardCain
DeckardCain

She's only doing what Hubbard taught her to do.....she's telling acceptable truths!  It's NOT HER FAULT.  She's just a poor deluded cultie.....

(read this with many violins playing sappy music in the background)

Lou
Lou

I agree, excellent coverage! Miscavige is clearly a developmentally-challenged, sadistic psychopath - can anyone think of a criminal in the U.S. with more victims? Let's hope the FBI is conducting an intense investigation and is just waiting for the right time to act. Does anyone else wonder why this doesn't get more national media attention? 

Lou
Lou

Baby steps..  I think she was professing "loyalty" to the cult to avoid losing contact with her Sc family, friends and business contacts. Once she has been officially "declared" and the phone stops ringing, she will have a lot less to lose and that loyalty may fade.  I sincerely hope that Debbie and her attorney have devised a strategy that in the end will put Miscavige behind bars. What a great movie that will make - she could make it rich from the book and consult fees! That will be much better on her conscience than a settlement. 

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

Gotta save some of this for the Trial...

That is if the church does not decide to withdraw those charges as well.  Which would be the smart thing to do.

But Miscavige apparently wants to punish anyone who challenges his authority... or even refuses to acknowledge it.

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

I too have thought on this for decades...

I will cast my vote for Skip's Solution.

The Prime Promise of scientology is that it would lead to "Regained Abilities" ...There is no demonstrable evidence whatsoever that this has occured...

"Show Me A Fucking Clear"...  Jason Beghe.

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

Without "Bacteria" we would not be able to live.... in "meat bodies" that is.

Tye Solaris
Tye Solaris

Mark...

As usual you are "on the money"..

but if Debbie actually takes a big payout from DM as a settlement there will most certainly be language brought in that will be essentially another "gag order" that this time, will be done under the auspices of the court so it will be fully enforceable.

And by entering into such a settlement she will be contradicting herself that what she wanted all along was to get the church back onto the track of what LRH wanted.

So we will see.

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

It's true, no one knows what "Cook" is cooking in her (mind) kitchen? I just hope it's a Can-O-Whoopas!

If she can take Miscavige down and save everyone in "The Hole," she'll be beyond famous.

DeckardCain
DeckardCain

This was a press conference.  The press are certainly allowed (and it is their duty) to ask difficult questions like the ones I posed.  Chances are high that this never gets to the trial phase and chances are high that no one will ask Debbie why she tried to illegally bargain her silence for her own benefit.

She needs to go to the FBI right now.  By the time she gets her humanity back, many statutes of limitations will have passed.

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