Scientology Thaumaturgy: Commenters of the Week!

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This was some spooky week here in the underground bunker where we keep an eye on all things Scientology related. Some downright eerie things showed up in our stories this week: Surfers who can see the future. Beings living in clouds. Egyptian gods showing up in some lady's kitchen. And The Great Beast himself, of course. Freaky!

Looking for a little protection, we had a tough time corralling everyone into the magic circle we drew on the middle of the floor. But then all we had to use was catnip, so the felines kept messing it up.

Anyway, things started out with a special edition of Sunday Funnies -- we loved the mailer announcing that Chill EB was coming to the Melbourne Org! There's something about Melbourne these days, and we're big Chill fans going way back. (Well, to November at least.)

Then, Monday, things started to get strange with the fun and wild stories we found in an old copy of Advance! magazine. Nothing like Scientologists telling tales about using their superpowers to get your spidey sense tingling!

On Tuesday, we posted yet another example of Scientology hip hop. In this case, we were happy to bring to the world the jiggy stylings of the Melbourne Day Rap Battle Team. That Melbourne org, it's going places.

Monday's sample of Advance! magazine ghost stories -- er, OT Phenomena -- were so popular, we decided to dish out a second helping Wednesday morning.

That afternoon, we gave a sneak peek of Hugh Urban's next scholarly article, this one exploring the ways that L. Ron Hubbard cribbed from his occult master, Aleister Crowley, for some of the bedrock principles of Scientology. Spooky!

For our Thursday Stats Roundup, we looked at media developments in Australia, Switzerland, and right here in the U.S.

And yesterday, we had another seafoam-soaked dispatch from the yacht Apollo, as we sailed with L. Ron Hubbard circa 1971.

So let's get to the awards!

On Monday, our special holiday treat was digging through old copies of Advance! magazine for accounts by Scientologists of their super power OT abilities. We loved this anecdote from Derfty...

I have witnessed Tom Cruise's OT powers. I was at a deli on Topanga Canyon Blvd standing in a very long line during the lunch hour rush, when TC walks in, bypassing the line, and right up to the counter where he was promptly served. That's right, no more standing in line for OT's.

It's always great when our commenters can supplement our stories with their own experiences. We're grateful that Synthia Fagen shared this memory with us...

I remember when the first New OT8 completed ("New OT8" because everyone had to re-do the OT7 & 8 they had previously done) and came to our org to tell of his enlightened state and to sell others on purchasing their OT levels. A big and excited crowd had gathered in anticipation of him divulging his OT secrets. He was asked, "Ray, tell us about some of your OT abilities" and this is what he said, "Well, I once had a fax come in and I didn't even have to look at the fax. I knew who it was from and I knew about it before the fax even started ringing." He was very proud of that and I thought to myself, "You paid hundreds of thousands for that ability?" I looked around to see if anyone else was disappointed. So, instead of running out the door right then and there, this is what I did -- I justified it by thinking. "Hmmm, OTs probably can't tell us about the things they are moving with their minds and how they are walking through walls because that would be too 'out-reality' and we wouldn't be able to really process it correctly" or some such crap! OMG, cringe city. I am embarrassed beyond belief.

And, as usual, when Jefferson Hawkins shows up he raises the level of the discourse several notches. In this case, he really gave us the inside scoop...

Tony, I was editor of Advance Magazine from 1975 to 1979. At that point, I had not yet reached the "OT Levels" so was still in awe of the supposed "OT abilities" I would gain. I was in charge of collecting these "OT Phenomena" stories from OTs around the world and publishing them. I filtered out the most laughably bizarre but published the rest. Scientologists love these stories, it always came out tops on reader surveys. But the fact is, these sorts of stories are a dime a dozen with ANY sort of new age or spiritual or past life subject - just go to their websites and you'll see virtually the same stories. Even devout Christians love stories about how they were healed or contacted a dead loved one or made a fortune through "prayer." People love these types of stories - they love to tell them and they love to hear them. But there is a world of difference between anecdotal stories of psychic phenomena and the creation of psychic ability (or "OT powers"). A phenomenon (real or imagined) is not an ability. A story about how an OT drove downtown and found a parking place right in front of his office building is meaningless. Can he drive downtown EVERY DAY and find that parking place EVERY TIME? And can it be observed and measured? The answer is no. These supposed abilities do not stand up to any sort of inspection. Look, if someone wants to believe in this sort of thing, that is one thing. People have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. That is freedom of belief or freedom of religion. But if someone is going to claim to produce these sorts of things as stable, predictable ABILITIES, and charge money for it, then they had better be able to demonstrate it. Otherwise it's called fraud.

On Tuesday, we shared with the world the stunning talents of the Melbourne Day Rap Battle Team. There's something about Scientology rap that seriously drives us wild. And then Chocolate Velvet put us in stitches with this comment...

The problem is, this is squirrel rap tech. In order to ensure the survival of scientology well into the 21st century, LRH left behind the mysterious OT MC levels. (HCOB PL 123 Run DMC) No one understood these at the time, as the Source had forseen an art form that wouldn't emerge for another 20 years. But now, this is yet another place where scientologists can have an edge, if they apply the tech correctly. These fellows need a few months on the SS Freestyle, the official Land Yacht of the church. (Ok, it's a '78 Cadillac, but it has a sun roof!). This is where the OT MC levels are given, as this luxury land yacht cruises endlessly around the city of Inglewood - which the COB has told us is the center of Black American culture. Captain Will Smith (OT MC VI) will teach you how to get Jiggy, and be at cause over some phat beats! Don't use squirrel rap tech! It only makes LRH look out of touch with the culture. If you want to be a wigger for the Source get yourself onboard the SS Freestyle and get going!

Most readers, however, found the video tough going. From Rolotomasii...

I am so proud of myself, I was able to make it until 1:47 of that video. Thank you Scientology for marking Australian accents suddenly uncool.

MRK didn't even make it that far!

I could take like 39 seconds of the rap video before I wanted to eat my own eyes.

On Wednesday, we brought back another helping of spooky OT Phenomena stories. BroekerBroekerBroeker took issue with one OT's claim that he remotely sped up a soccer game just with his mind...

Only an OT would think that the distance that a soccer ball is being kicked somehow correlates with the quality of the game.

And Skydog took apart another OT story about preventing a crime from happening...

Let me see if I get this straight, Mr. OT Sheen: You imagine a situation where a girl is victimized and, learning that it didn't happen, imagine the next night that you prevented it from not happening again? Wow, that is impressive.

On Wednesday afternoon, we previewed a yet-to-be-published academic article by Hugh Urban in which the professor describes the ideas in Aleister Crowley's "magick" that L. Ron Hubbard lifted for Scientology. Along the way, Urban describes the efforts by Hubbard and JPL scientist Jack Parsons to create a "Moonchild" in 1946 with some kinky occult sex rituals. That prompted this reaction from Rumpelstiltskin, which really floored us here in the underground bunker...

As far as I'm concerned, Hubbard's 'Moonchild ' turned out to be Scientology/Dianetics being born.

Wow. We're constantly amazed at what a great commenting community we have here at Runnin' Scared. And thoughtful, too. As in this interesting observation by V for Vacation...

As horrifying or scandalous as LRH's "Affirmations" are, I find them to be more overwhelmingly sad than anything else. So often is the case that when you break down the story of some awful criminal/sociopath/dictator that has caused a lot of harm in people's lives, at their beginnings these people were just weak and clueless and sad, watching the better part of the world pass them by, and them getting angry and vengeful and reckless. The whole "I will rule them all / I will be a god / They will rue the day" vein... It's so the opposite of true growth and authentic knowledge/power/enlightenment. Sad. Also, it kind of makes LRH like a comic book villain.

In Thursday's press roundup, Rebecca had this to say about Scientology's claim that its workers are volunteers and don't need to be paid...

I suppose it depends on how you define volunteer. In my world, volunteering doesn't usually mean signing a billion year contract and working overtime week after week with little sleep. That sounds more like full-time employment or torture.

And we also enjoyed this tribute to Paulien Lombard by billy bob...

I have to say, Paulien Lombard is one classy lady! I have yet to see an ex-Scientologist own up to their wrongs in such a sincere and noble manner. Moved only by her own conscience, her brave public apology to the parties she had wronged under orders of Scientology is one of the highest acts of contrition I have seen displayed by a Scientologist in recent times. She made no excuses, did not blame "one person," instead she quite honestly exposed the rotten organization for what it truly is. Unlike those who have only admitted to their evil actions under Scientology when it serves their selfish needs, Paulien made her public pronouncement because she truly sought to make up for her wrongs. I hope courage and honesty lighten the load of her conscience, and help to speed her journey on the road to recovery from cult mind control. Bravo for Paulien!

Our Friday feature, "This Week Aboard the Apollo" is bringing out some great comments, particularly for something that can be a bit inside-baseball some weeks. But this week featured some interesting statements from Hubbard about his own wealth and his family, and prompted this reaction by billy bob...

Poor Arthur Hubbard -- He's not a beloved son, he's a "test rider and mechanic in chief." Seems like Ol' Ron had to handle everyone, even his own family, by depersonalizing them, reducing them to mere ranks and titles, or "hats" as he called them.

And we'll finish up with this stunning discourse by John P about Hubbard's possible income. We don't know if John's right or not, but we sure loved reading this...

Let's tease out the numbers on an interesting detail mentioned in one of the orders. For this purpose, let's assume Hubbard is telling the exact literal truth (a stretch, but let's pretend). Hubbard claims the orgs owed him 10% of revenue, and that "An audit of monies owed me by orgs showed about 13 1/2 million pounds some years ago." So let's pretend that "some years ago" equals perhaps 1968 or so... The exchange rate was fixed in 1971 at about $2.40 per pound, so that would have equaled 32.4 million dollars in 1971 money. Adjusting for inflation, which was about 450% from 1970 to 2011, you get the equivalent of about $146 million in today's dollars. If Hubbard's payout was supposed to be 10%, then the aggregate revenue for Scientology up until that point would have been about $325 million in 1970 dollars. Applying a logarithmic growth curve, a growth rate of 25% from 1950 (founding) to 1968 gives you aggregate revenue of about $325 million and implies a company size of about $70 million in 1968. That's not a huge company today. But for comparison purposes, the #500 company in the Fortune 500 for 1970 (per cnnmoney dot com) did about $168 million in sales... So Scientology would have been a very solid sized successful company in 1968. Compare that with the organization today. A reasonable estimate of the organization stats (based on leaks posted on Marty Rathbun's site and elsewhere) suggest about $350 million per year, with perhaps $100 million from Flag, $100 million from books, plus (mostly) IAS donations. Direct "product" revenue hasn't kept pace with inflation since the 1970s, even though inflation-adjusted prices for hitting the OTVIII levels are 10x or 20x what they were in the same time frame. The only reason that overall revenue is anywhere near the inflation adjusted level of 1968 is due to the IAS "donation" scheme. So if Hubbard is telling the truth about how much he was owed, then it appears that the membership of Scientology is substantially less than 1/10 what it was in 1970, and most of the (smaller amount of) money appears to be coming from high-pressure extortion fund raising, not from delivering product that people want to buy. Of course, if I were a Sea Org peon making 10 pounds per week, I would have felt less than kindly about hearing Hubbard brag about how he could just graciously "forgive" 13.5 million pounds that he was owed in back bonuses. How would you feel if your boss casually told you that he forgave an IOU of $146 million in today's dollars from the company treasury? I don't think that happens even at Google or Microsoft.

That's a capper on another amazing week of comments. Make sure to tune in for tomorrow morning's Sunday Funnies -- it's a great one -- and then some of these longer stories we've been working on should start popping next week. In the meantime, keep those tips and leaks coming. We're on a roll!


**********
Tony Ortega has been the editor in chief of the Village Voice since March, 2007. He started writing about Scientology in 1995. You can reach him by e-mail at tortega@villagevoice.com, and if you ask nicely he'll put you on his mailing list for notifications of new stories, which tend to come out each and every morning at 8 am, but can suddenly appear at any time of the day. You can also catch his alerts at Twitter (@VoiceTonyO), at his Facebook author page, and even this new Google Plus doohickey.

New readers might want to check out our primer, "What is Scientology?" Another good overview is our series from last summer, "Top 25 People Crippling Scientology." At the top of every story, you'll see the "Scientology" category which, if you click on it, will bring up all of our most recent stories. As for our regular features, on Thursdays we do a roundup of world press, on Fridays we visit L. Ron Hubbard on the yacht Apollo circa 1969-1971, on Saturdays we celebrate the week's best comments, and on Sundays we publish Scientology's wacky and tacky advertising mailers that people send us.

As for hot subjects we've covered here, you may have heard about Debbie Cook, the former church official who rebelled and is now being sued by Scientology. You might have also heard about the Super Power Building, Scientology's "Mecca," whose secrets were revealed here. We also reported how Scientology spied on its own most precious object, Tom Cruise. (We wrote Tom an open letter that he has yet to respond to.) Have you seen a Scientology ad on TV lately? We debunked some of the claims in that 2-minute commercial you might have seen while watching Glee or American Idol.

Other stories have looked at Scientology's policy of "disconnection" that is tearing families apart. You may also have heard something about the Sea Org experiences of the Paris sisters, Valeska and Melissa, and their friend Ramana Dienes-Browning. We've also featured Paulette Cooper, who wrote about Scientology back in the day, and Janet Reitman, Hugh Urban, and the team at the Tampa Bay Times, who write about it today. And there's plenty more coming.

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Billy Bob
Billy Bob

Thanks for the recognition, Tony!

I am a long time Scientology-watcher, and I have to say, it has been a long, strange journey, from the pre-Anon days, when OCMB was the place to be, through the ascendency of Chanology. Today, your blog has become the forefront of up-to-the-minute news about the debacle that is Scientology.

Thanks for all of your hard work and dedication to this subject! I do hope you make the time to balance out the insanity of Scientology with other healthy interests and activities, because we want you to stick with this for the long haul. Thanks again!

dodobird
dodobird

Hi, Tony my "negative on Scientology" friend.  I enjoy your comments, good, bad or indifferent. Not that I am negative on the subject of Scientology except for the management of Scientology within the Church.

I really like your point that "OT Abilities" cannot be called abilities unless they are uniform.  You may not know that Scientology and Para-Scientology are different, and OT phenomenaare really Para-Scientology, not Scientology.  Many "OTs" start practicing  by "intending" a parking place, and often they get a high percentage.  Again, that is a side effect or just something they consider fun to do; there is no auditing on the Gradation Chart that gives the ability to establish an available parking place as an end phenomena (ability gained) 

There are such things as improved ability to communicate, taking responsibility for problems, getting the bad feelings off from having done something wrong, moving out of fixed conditions.  There is on the OT levels "freedom from overwhelm."  Doesn't mean a person would never get overwhelmed given the right set of circumstances, but certainly one can be free of past overwhelm and be able to continue happily on with living with a very positive attitude.

I'm only throwing this in to balance out some of the negative things and attitudes.  If the subject of Scientology as applied through "auditing" (counciling without evaluation and invalidation) didn't bring about improved conditions you wouldn't have any Scientology.  People would just go elsewhere and do something else.  There are good reasons that many Scientologists won't let go of the bit in their mouths, but mainly because "scientology works."  I'm sure you have heard that phrase, but on the grass roots level once a person has overcome a personal problem or inability that really concerned them, they want to know more.  Scientologists are made when Scientology is applied correctly.

When it isn't, we get this column.:)

Billy Bob
Billy Bob

 Hubbard didn't discover anything new about the process of talking to someone about your problems to feel better.  He just figured out a way to market it as a profession.And, he sure wasn't the first to do that either, as he entered the market intent to compete with the existing Psychoanalytic profession.

Scientology "works" as a simple exploitation of human nature. People want to feel another person cares about them, and auditing feels like being cared for.   That's a feeling that can be addictive. But when the money runs out, so does the caring.  

As for all the mumbo jumbo language you learn, that's probably not helpful.  Most people in the world do not talk about their overwhelms.  Sorry to break it to you, but that's a stupid word. Hubbard breaks the language, and not in clever ways, merely intellectually lazy ways.  Probably while drunk or high.  So when you repeat Hubbard language here in the "wog world", you ought to realize that you will sound silly.

You state - "Many "OTs" start practicing  by "intending" a parking place, and often they get a high percentage."  High percentage compared to what?  Can you point out an actual study that compares the results of OT parking space availability versus a control group?  Of course you can't!  

Since you are a Scientologist, you can just make up percentages.Just like L Ron Hubbard made up the story that 75 million years the ruler of the Galaxy, named Xenu, solved his empire's overpopulation problem by dumping all the excess aliens here on Earth (which was called Teeegeeack) piling them up around volcanoes, and blowing them up with H-bombs.  And now these invisible alien souls stick in clusters to human beings, causing us to believe in such false implants as Jesus; and only Scientology can rid us of these parasitic souls.

dodobird - I challenge you to read about "Magical Thinking."

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

 No apology necessary.  "Pummeled".  You must be new to the Internet.  What we did to Davescomm was very, very mild.

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

No. It is NOT a "state of mind".

Releases, Clears and OTs have very specifically defined and delineated abilities and powers. No one in Scientology, after paying hundreds of thousands of dollars has ANY of those promised abilities and powers.

Yes, because of the money, that's a really disgusting fraud.

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

 No matter how Scientology defines their "miracles", it makes no difference -- they don't deliver any of them.  None.  No "Releases", no "Clears" and no "OTs".  It's all a fraud and I will continue to point that out.

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

I never, ever attacked Davescomm for his beliefs.  If Davescomm wants to believe Scientology's lies, that's fine, but, by promoting Scientology, he is promoting fraud.  I think that's very wrong and said so.

It is interesting that you don't think I have the right to question anything he says.  What an odd concept.

MrElronious
MrElronious

i hope all this sci watching is not rubbing off on me, i had to word clear Thaumaturgy today, thanks a lot Tony.

OTVIIIisGrrr8!
OTVIIIisGrrr8!

We in RTC have our comments of the week from Scientologists scattered across the 15,901 countries, islands, and ice floes of the world:

*  "I had a major win donating $5,000,000 to IAS. I received a handsome trophy that looks somewhat Martian for my rumpus room. It is an object of awe to the local Catholics, some of whom want to worship it. I laugh at their silly R6 implants. I am are free of these implants thanks to the 5,000 hours of standard auditing I have received at Flag." -- Adalsteinn L., Reykjavik, Iceland

* "Thanks to the 100% standard Mendacity Tech we use in OSA Legal, we almost always win in court. When it looks like we might lose we use Payoff and Gag Agreement Tech. We have the tools to handle all squirrels and bitter apostates in court, this assuming we get a summary judgment and that the other side is not  allowed to speak or have their lawyer present!" -- Monique Y., Washington DC

* "After decades of being suppressed by incompetent staff members who are all secret homosexuals, I finally removed the last remaining 290 SP's from my lines and had them shipped off to the prison island of Australia. I have since not felt the need to kick, hit, punch, choke, or slap anyone for almost one week. The Tech works and now expansion is straight up and vertical." Dave M., Hemet

* "I have only one foot due to a bad LSD trip back in 1968 that auditing handled. I had lost my shoe and was going to miss an appointment with a client. I went exterior and found it right where I had left it on my foot. I made the appointment on time and closed the sale!" Sheila P., New York City

* "In 2005, I made the postulate that I would handle Psychiatry on the fourth dynamic. Psychiatry is now 81% handled in my area, which is to say the entire world. I will handle the remaining 19% by putting in Ethics on Tony Ortega. I put in Ethics ruthlessly on myself and am not afraid to put them in on others." Tom C., Hollywood.

V for Vacation
V for Vacation

John P is a rockstar.

And I am dying over here because I somehow missed that hysterical post by Chocolate Velvet last week.  So glad it got mentioned here today!  -- "HCOB PL 123 Run DMC" -- "SS Freestyle / '78 Cadillac"  -- dying!!

Maybe CoS can use part of their gigantic fancy new printing press department (aka buggy whip factory) and create some CoS-sanctioned, Bridge-appropriate cardboard sheets for laying down some Electric Boogaloo at various events.  My understanding is that until now they've been getting their cardboard as a bonus from rummaging through squirrel trash.

Julie_Kanon
Julie_Kanon

One cult two cult three cult four,

Scientology, made Tom Cruise their whore :)

SP 'Onage
SP 'Onage

"I have witnessed Tom Cruise's OT powers. I was at a deli on Topanga Canyon Blvd standing in a very long line during the lunch hour rush, when TC walks in, bypassing the line, and right up to the counter where he was promptly served. That's right, no more standing in line for OT's."

I bet the late Marlon Brando wished he had OT powers like Tom Cruise, though Josh Brolin did claim he witnessed John Travolta (who had just reached a new level) “practising scientology” on Marlon Brando's cut leg.

Anyway, I was waiting in a long line at Carney’s in Studio City when Brando showed up, he didn't take cuts to the front of the line. I guess "OT" Tom is a bigger superstar with more pOwErZ than Marlon Brando.

Commenter Plus Ultra
Commenter Plus Ultra

I've been trying for ages to figure out how to be a 'commenter of the week' from something I write in the comments of the 'commenter of the week' post.  But, alas, my comments, either about the post or the comments, do not land me in the vaulted company of 'commenters of the week'.  After a while, "comment" doesn't even look like a real word.  Ever notice that?

bobx
bobx

Maybe you need to word-clear "comment"

OTVIIIisGrrr8!
OTVIIIisGrrr8!

The key understanding here is that the Reactive Mind thinks in the illogical associations common to illiterate criminals: A=A=A. The trick to good writing, then, is to think like an illiterate criminal. That is how you reach a wide audience and become a commenter of the week.

COB thinks like an illiterate criminal  and this is why his speeches receive wild applause and dozens of standing ovations.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

Monomania is your friend. If you start foaming at the mouth and wake up with your head in a poll of drool, face firmly embedded in your keyboard, then it's a good sign your # is coming up. Trust me on this.

Robin Landseadel2011 Village Voice Scientology Commenter of the Year!

PS: Comment isn't a real word.

MarkStark
MarkStark

 BTW, was what your award Robin? Cash bonus, stock options, or just that stupid gift basket of psych drugs. If that's what caused your drooling, take your medications only as directed, and see your evil psychiatrist for more information.

robinlandseadel
robinlandseadel

It said "xanax" but was packaged like sweetarts—is that what you mean?

DMSTCC
DMSTCC

And I'm still waiting for my membership card/certificate from my first win. Why do you hate me Tony?

MarkStark
MarkStark

 It's the same way you'd get to Carnegie Hall:

a) practiceb) fk a famous conductorc) sell the family jewels and buy your way ind) all of the above, to be sure

DeckardCain
DeckardCain

Mind passing it to the left, please?

DamOTclese2
DamOTclese2

I still think that the best "going exterior" OT story the crooks published was the guy who fell down the stairs and suffered serious head trauma and found himself "three feet outside my head." Yeesh!

MarkStark
MarkStark

The Denver radio host suggested to Marty that he if he doesn't believe Xenu is real, he isn't a Scientologist. LOL, and I agree!

In an effort to be the first Scilons who aren't pathological liars, Marty should call his group something like:

Cult of Xenu the Secret Evil Galactic Overlord

After all, Marty is the first REAL Scientologist to go on record and give any important "data" about their non-belief in Xenu.

Marty said: "It's just like Jonah and the whale." Gee, I wonder why Davis or Rinder never used that one!

Could it be that the cult charges thousands of dollars to hear about it, and Blubbard said you might die of pneumonia if you hear about it before you're ready? If you talk about it after you've heard about it then disconnection or prison camp would be too good for you.

Anyway, whale of a story Marty. Keep up your research and telling 'em what's true for you. Way to expose the scam that is Sciloontology.

Xenu loves you!

Dread&Angst
Dread&Angst

It ain't necessarily soit ain't necessarily soThe things that you're liable to read in the OT levelsIt ain't necessarily so.David was small but oh myDavid was small but oh my.He shot the IRSwho lay down and dieth.David was small but oh myDavid was small but oh my....It ain't necessarily soit ain't necessarily so.It ain't necessarily so

BroekerBroekerBroeker
BroekerBroekerBroeker

1) That interview was bad news for Marty. Although I'm fairly sure he was lying - as he seems to be truly devoted to the tech, which necessitates a real belief in the existence of BTs - the CoS should be using his words to dead agent him to any OT III+ out there. He just proved himself to be a first-class squirrel.

Now I assume that he'll deny squirreldom to his OT pals, saying that he lied to preserve the integrity of secret tech, but those who are still in the Church will be all too happy to believe the DA story.

2) The failure to come up with a better pat answer to the Xenu/BT question is astonishing to me. Try this, for example:

"Look, the concepts you're asking about are pretty advanced concepts within Scientology technology. Ron Hubbard, the founder of our religion and the man who researched the entire body of Scientology spiritual technology, relied on a basic principle of learning: that you need to study and understand the basic elements of a subject before moving on to study and understand advanced concepts. Scientology's belief structure contains an escalating series of concepts, which we believe - when studied and *applied* correctly - lead individuals to increased freedom as spiritual beings. But without thorough understanding of the basic concepts, the advanced materials won't make any sense, and may even seem disturbing or strange. So there's really no point in my discussing these concepts with you, as I assume that you haven't studied and applied the basic spiritual technology of Scientology. Now you might say, 'well, I've read a lot of these materials on the internet, from Dianetics on up.' And that's great. But you can't forget that Scientology is an *applied* philosophy, and that without auditing and spiritual practice of the materials, your understanding will be incomplete at best. So suffice it to say that I do believe fully in Scientology spiritual technology as researched by Ron Hubbard - but there's just nothing to be gained for either of us, or your listeners, from discussing a concept that won't make any sense to someone who hasn't studied all of Scientology on a gradient."

I'm not a Scientologist and never have been, and until now I've never really thought about how Scientologists should answer that question, but I think the answer that I just devised in ten minutes is a helluva lot better than what Marty threw out there. That's shocking to me.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Your answer would just be the usual cult BS, and most people would turn their radio off if the host let the guest go on with such blather. None of them know what Xenu means allegorically or otherwise, because they are too mind f'kd to figure it out for themselves and they can't discuss it, or refine it as they do other propaganda.

Scientologists "do," and what they do is mind f'k people out of their money and hope for answers at the next level. A lot of extra BS is thrown in as part of the con. That's why theologians do not bother and are incapable of even thinking up some crapola for the spiritual meaning of Xenu and BT exorcism.

As far as DAing Marty using what Marty said in an interview. Never! You can't talk about this stupid Xenu shit with your spouse, because Hubbard said you can't. They would never do that.

But if they ever loosen up, they could do a musical.

Marty, upon his first knowingness of Xenu: (spoken, in his mind)Xenu . . . (sings, in his mind)The most evil galactic sound I've ever heard:Xenu, Xenu, Xenu, Xenu...All the evil sounds of the gaLAXy in a single word . .Xenu, Xenu, Xenu, Xenu....

Xenu!I've just read about an evil galactic overlord named Xenu,And suddenly that nameWill never be the sameTo me.

Xenu!I've just had my mind blown by Xenu,And suddenly I've foundHow secretive a soundCan be!

Xenu!Say it loud and you'll be RPF'd for life,Say it soft and you'll be cursed with only strife.Xenu,I'll never stop not saying Xenu!

The most evil name I ever read.Xeeeenuuuuu.

Schockenawd
Schockenawd

Copyright 2012.

(Hey, no reason why you shouldn't get full credit when Marty or Mike or someone else lifts your explanation.  I say make 'em pay a licensing fee!)

DMSTCC
DMSTCC

Love the Vistaril "After" on the YT version from TeamXemu.

DamOTclese2
DamOTclese2

"I could take like 39 seconds of the rap video before I wanted to eat my own eyes." LOL!!!

Who here remembers "OTBiker?" You can Google for it now but you'll not find the original OTBiker stuff from the mid 1990s. You want to talk about insane? Holy sweet baby Jesus, that guy was a walking mall shooting just waiting to happen.

Jonathon Barbera
Jonathon Barbera

This is from a CNN news story from this morning: "A Philadelphia archdiocese official on trial for allegedly covering up the sexual abuse of children has asked a court to throw out charges against him based on a 1994 memo showing Cardinal Anthony Bevilacqua ordered a list of suspected abusive Catholic priests to be destroyed."

Here is a questions: Was David Miscavige molested by a Catholic Priest as a child?

(Perhaps all of David Miscavige's bad behavior stems from the Roman Catholic Church and not from influences within Scientology...)

MrElronious
MrElronious

I think David Miscavige was also molested by L.Ron Hubbard as a child, by Tom Cruise as a adult, and his cell mate "Bubba" here in the near future.

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Hey Jonathon,

Have you ever wondered why just so much continued discussion and attempts to label Hubbard and Scientology go on and on!

If you are familiar with Hubbard's "out lists" technology, Academy Level 3 training required, you understand that per the "Laws of Listing and Nulling" the "out-lists" phenomenon is caused by not finding the "right item."

To me, the whole critics community is just a huge social demonstration of "out-lists" phenomenon, where the public grappling with Hubbard's take on the world, rejects the Hubbard wordage, and observers do their own "self listing" and come up with their own "correct item" description of Hubbard and all things Scientology.

Too bad Hubbard didn't come up with a 3rd dynamic L4BRB (the L4BRB is just a list of comments Hubbard has the quack Scientologist therapist call out while the patient/parishioner is holding the "E-Meter" electrodes) with the hopes that the correct Hubbard comment shows a reaction on the E-Meter needle. The quack pseudo-psychotherapist Hubbard therapist then calls aloud that Hubbard comment to the patient/parishioner, and supposedly the patient/parishioner Scientologist is mentally relieved by this "indication." Lots of further details, to go into, I'll be glad to mentor anyone right into the thick of Hubbard's "Listing and Nulling".)

Instead, Hubbard's "handling" technology for society's rejection of his ideas (society's "out-list" phenomenon) is the OSA counter attack tech.

Hubbard's 3rd dynamic wriings and theories have to be graded, even by his own system of assessing things, as inadequate.

Hubbard should have come up with a 3rd Dynamic L4BRB List Correction, to deal with society's "out list" phenomenon with Hubbard's claims and ideas!

Xenu Volunteer Publicist ClubChuck BeattyPittsburgh

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

Always breaking new ground in this subject!  

It is astounding how much material you've covered the last two years.

I hope someone puts all these articles in a safe place, there are so many leads to more material in the articles and unbelievably smart comments!    

Xenu is my favorite all time Hubbard created word!

Hubbard's Pseudo-Psychotherapy-Total-Freedom-Body-Thetans-Exorcism-Xenu-Religion is just so interesting.

Xenu dolls for everyone.

bobx
bobx

We don't actually need to worry about keeping the articles in a safe place:  the beauty and the horror of the Internet is that nothing ever, ever goes away.  Have you ever looked at the Wayback Machine?  Their archivists continually trawl the Net and store copies of everything on it (massive amounts of memory have become cheap).  Originally this was in the Bay Area, of course, but then a backup was put in the Netherlands, and then the Egyptian government decided their new library in Alexandria would be just the place for another.  As the late-lamented Douglas Adams put it, "We have an attempt to make an archive of all current knowledge, on the edge of a major earthquake fault, with another copy below sea level, and a third where there was a previous attempted archive of all human knowledge which was then intentionally destroyed." 

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

I've transferred completely my faith from Hubbard to internet people!   Thankyou the gods of the internet!

Aa
Aa

That brings up another point - I think that the collection of links that follow every Scientology article really needs to be copied onto a separate 'master' page (or presented as an iframe window) mainly so the collection can be indexed by Google, because being spread out on so many different pages, a person googling "scientology" gets the index pages of several static sites, but does not get any hits on Village Voice. 

So here we have one of the greatest collections of Scientology articles on the internet, that sadly gets ignored by Google.

Lemont
Lemont

Also, I think we need to go beyond the DISQUS comment retention policy.  We need to have the comment sections burned on to titanium disks and store deep underground. Or maybe Tony's bunker is good enough.  Need any titanium, Tony?

Aa
Aa

very true. The comments apparently don't get indexed at all. And DISQUS(T) is absolute hell on older computers - who wants to wait several minutes for the page to load with the processor load pegged at 100%?

scnethics
scnethics

Synthia's comment reminds me that I and other people I talked to had that exact same belief: that OTs didn't reveal the extent of their abilities because it would be too much for people to process.  This absurdity must have been laid into our minds at some point, but I don't know where in the indoctrination it comes from, or if its an idea that sort of travels by word of mouth.  Anybody know?

It does show how easy it is to stop scientologists from thinking.  That explanation makes no sense whatsoever and yet I instantly accepted it and removed that nagging doubt about OTs from my mind.

Xenu
Xenu

I think the absurdity started with Hubbard himself, when he said that OTs shouldn't go around knocking off hats at 50 yards, or reading books a couple of countries away, because it'd freak people out.  (Of course, this was a couple of years after publicly demonstrating that a Clear couldn't remember the color of his necktie when he had his back turned, prompting him to ban such displays.  Apparently hat knocking and remote book viewing must be much easier than remembering something mundane.) 

scnethics
scnethics

I remember that quote!  Of course it came from him.  Thanks for the reminder.

Davescomm
Davescomm

I believe what I see. I have not seen any of the really extraordinary abilities written about in OT success stories. I have seen some abilities above what is considered normal. It's -very- hard to draw lines around individuals and what anyone chooses to do with their time, which abilities anyone chooses to develop, or in the case of the Co$, not develop. .

OLD OT7
OLD OT7

 Wait a minute, didn't you just post that you "were out of here?"

bobx
bobx

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

 "I believe what I see."

And, like the rest of humanity, you interpret what you thought you saw based on your beliefs.  What you believe you saw doesn't prove anything to anyone else but it does make for nice anecdotes.

Aa
Aa

If Hubbard had discovered the secret to ANY supernatural powers, it would have been the greatest scientific discovery in history. So why are no scientists the least bit interested? Maybe because all the experiments done in the past (and there have indeed been many) have turned up absolute zero, and they don't want to go down that road again. 

Hey, if anyone cares to demonstrate these OT powers, there are million-dollar prizes waiting for them! Don't be shy.

DMSTCC
DMSTCC

 I have seen.  I have seen.  I have seen. SPILL IT!!!

Davescomm
Davescomm

Counterpoint. I have been exterior (briefly), and I have seen others exterior (consistently). I am also aware of various past lives. I attribute this to auditing. There are others who have had no experience with Scn who have stated the same or similar. General George S Patton, for example, and more recently Shirley McClaine, and I'm sure many others I am not aware of. I haven't bothered to Google Alistair McCrowley to see if perhaps his experiences would have been of interest to Hubbard in doing his research. I myself do not have Hubbard's level of interest in the lives and experiences of others. There are probably a number of people who do not mention such things as past lives or spiritual experiences, themselves not wishing to be considered "unusual". The point I wish to draw attention to is that properly used, Dianetic auditing does produce results - some of which some many consider "miraculous". This is something new. The distinction must be made between the mess the Co$ is in, and the philosophy and practice of Scn. I personally do not recommend the Co$ at all. Scn should be affordable in a no-pressure and friendly environment.  I do recommend the subject of Scn. Nothing new and startling goes unnoticed without disruptions to prevailing realities. The controversy Scn has generated would indicate perhaps there is something very new and startling that is worth taking seriously.

Guest
Guest

I've had multiple out of body experiences, and I've never set foot inside a scientology org, or practiced one iota of the old kook's hogwash. These are not even necessarily desirable experiences, and can be dangerous. 

Regression therapy works outside of scientology quite well, too.  The consensus is the the imagined past lives are an amalgam of local prompts, personal experiences, and therapist expectations.  Once again, nothing special about the cult, except that it was created by a conman. 

Chuck Beatty
Chuck Beatty

all that you've said, is exactly what kept me going, hoping, for these "soul" abilities, which seem logical, almost, if you even grant that the soul exists, and if you grant you ARE the soul, which is what Hubbard presents as Scientology belief.

It's logical to backwards extrapolate that we each in past lives were Greek god like, able to soul travel, etc, etc.  

But as one of my all time favorite critics Skip Press noted, these soul-improved  Scientologists are not capable of scientifically convincing soul travel.

It's all hopeful coincidental anecdotal experiences, and frankly out of the body experiences  are hallucinations, and there are articles and TV shows, Michael Sherman's video clips showing how out of the body is brain manipulation, answers 'soul travel" for me.

When I was on the RPF, during a phase I refused to read Hubbard, and instead I delved into the Encyclopedia Britannica, down deep lost in their articles, I learned that out of the body soul travel was equally disappointing all through human history, just as disappointing as Scientologists find it is today. Hubbard's promised "OT abilities" and "exteriorization with full perception" is not happening. No armies of OT super-soul people have been produced.

It's the same old human soul travel hype, undeliverable because it's all in the mind, in the brain!    It's hallucination, it's NOT actual.

To prove some "soul" miracles, it'd be easy.

Anyone, with soul travel abilities, feel free (like Skip offers) call 412-260-1170 and tell me what color shirt I have on today!

- Xenu Volunteer Publicist ClubChuck BeattyPittsburgh

MrElronious
MrElronious

you are not wearing a shirt today.wow that was easy, i too have the power.

bobx
bobx

OK smarty, now tell me which of the commenters here aren't wearing pants.

Kim O'Brien
Kim O'Brien

this is when people move away from you on the bus to get another seat because you sound crazy . and that sound you hear is laughter ...you spent thousands and thousands of dollars and all you had to do is buy a Shirley McClain book for about $9 and you would have the same stories . I do not even have to pretend to respect these 'beliefs " no more so than someone who "believes " that the earth is flat or only 6,000 years old , or thinks Sarah Palin is smart. you got suckered by a cult because you were a sucker ...that fact that we were not suckered ...is NOT a reflection on us . The fact that we do not believe you does not mean we just lack creativity ..is means that we have brain cells that still work  and call bullshit on someone who expects us to believe that they "go exterior and have seen others exterior consistently"  You obviously will believe anything and then expect us too . Get some help

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

 No.  Such unproven anecdotes have been around for thousands of years.  Scientologists' anecdotes are neither new nor startling.  Scientology and Dianetics have completely and consistently failed to prove that they can produce ANY of their "miracles".  Sell your snake oil somewhere else.

Davescomm
Davescomm

"Anecdotes"? You would seem to posses extraordinary magical abilities yourself: to make disappear from reality everything you yourself do not like. Are you calling me a liar, Sir? Because you dismiss whatever does not conform to your narrow conceptions does not make you right.

jensting
jensting

.. and yet, here you are, not out spending the 1 million $ you collected from the Randi challenge. Amazing. We really are not worthy, you know...

Brainslugged
Brainslugged

Love it! This guy just brought a knife to a gun fight.

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

Scientologists get VERY upset when you ask for proof. This is, in Scientology, considered very rude.

DMSTCC
DMSTCC

"Screw you guys, I'm going home" says the pussy that can't confront.

Davescomm
Davescomm

OK guys - (all above who replied to me in this little subthread) I'm out of here. Bye, and good luck to all of you on things that are of interest to you.

MarkStark
MarkStark

Another interesting tidbit from the two shows, about Tom Cruise:

Marty mentioned that he spent 2 years auditing Cruise, "recovering him" and evidently Cruise was messed up or going through a hard time in his life. Of course, Marty said he would never disclose any of the details... Boyle asked if Cruise were gay. Marty says he is not, but if he were, he wouldn't say.

Wollersheim gets on with Boyles the day after and says he believes that Tom Cruise went a little berserk, and had to be held at the base for two weeks at one point, because he kind of went out of his mind during some of the processing. I don't know how valid that is. It was years before the couch jumping.

You can find the links to both shows on ESMB if you want to hear them.

Marty went on the show, thinking he was going to be able to talk about the goodness of the tech and Hubbard, and DM's abuses, but came up against someone who knows the whole system is rotten to the core, riddled with secrecy, manipulation, and Hubbard's far-fetched fantasies.

MarkStark
MarkStark

On a related note -- people extolling the benefits of Sciloontology but not the CoS -- Marty Rathbun was recently interviewed on a Denver radio station, KHOW, with Peter Boyles. The following day is a show featuring Larry Wollersheim, also with host Peter Boyles.

The Rathbun show is notable because Rathbun didn't know that Boyles was on the cult's Fair Game list, for his coverage back during the Wollersheim trial, as Larry is from Boulder, CO (near Denver). Boyles has been vocal about Scientology ever since, when the topic comes up.

Some (on ESMB) feel it might have been a jump-the-shark moment for Rathbun's Indy movement. I don't believe that, but it was significant to see Marty confronted. When Boyles grills Marty about Xenu, Marty really goes weak and ends up saying "they're allegories, they're stories." Marty also says, "I don't believe anything" when asked what he believes about Xenu.

It was Marty's lack of "handling" ability that was striking, not to mention his lack of OT abilities ;-)

As Hubbard's PR agent, Marty just said it doesn't have anything to do with the core of Scientology. Boyles was saying that it was their central belief, and how you are supposed to need and buy into the OT levels, even if they hide it from from the public.

A poster on ESMB clarified that Xenu and BTs are central to Scientology, although obviously many Scilons haven't even reached OTIII, and of those who do, some ignore it. Also, Hubbard had his dire warnings for Scilons who didn't pursue the OT levels.

Just like A History of Man...a "cold blooded factual account of the last..." Scilons learn Xenu is integral to the whole track, and factual. I really like that Marty got nailed. Thank you Peter Boyles!

Alice Kramden
Alice Kramden

Here we go again. Magical thinkers wanting others to prove a negative.

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

You keep pushing Dianetics and Scientology as desirable technologies for producing the "miracles" you mention.  That's "selling".  People cannot participate in those without paying money.  Lots of money.

Next, nice logical fallacies you use.  First, you create a strawman who says all sorts of things that I DIDN'T SAY and you argue with him.  You have absolutely no idea what I believe yet you try to attack me for it.  Bad form.

Second, you make claims with no proof and then demand that I provide the proof that your claims are false.  That's another logical fallacy called "Shifting the burden of proof".

Your job is simple.  It's the same simple job that Scientology keeps failing at.  They claim they can actually produce "miracles" and all they have to do is PROVE IT.  And their response is exactly like yours: Logical fallacies and misdirection.

Believe what you want, that's your right, but don't claim that Scientology and Dianetics produce "miracles" without providing proof because that's FRAUD.

cjm
cjm

Read Jeff Hawkins comment again (above, in the article).  That's all -- anecdotes.  Yes, little stories WITH NO PROOF.  Neither dianetics nor scn EVER delivered what was promised.  No clears, no OTs, not even any stable releases.  Just anecdotes and giddy success stories.  And, as Jeff noted, the stories do not vary much from one "religion" or practice to another.My devoutly Christian neighbor informed me that my recalcitrant car started because she prayed for it to start.  Huh.  Ok.  But did her prayers make it happen every time?  Nope.

Davescomm
Davescomm

You do not even read carefully. I do not sell either Dn or Scn. Your "jump" to mention commercial exchange is curious, though. Can you prove to me that man is not a spiritual being, that past lives do not exist, and that I have not been exterior, and that I have not seen others exterior? You yourself are offering anecdotes, only yours are "no change is possible" "all who think change for the better is possible are unable to prove it." Has there ever been something you thought was "fiction" that later turned out to be fact?

JustWilliam
JustWilliam

 Yes, anecdotes.  That's what you call little stories with no proof.  That's all you have is little stories with no proof.  That's all that Dianetics and Scientology ever have is little stories with no proof.

You are trying to sell Dianetics and Scientology for hundreds of thousands of dollars and all you have is little stories with no proof.  Believe what you want but stop trying to sell your "miracles" using little stories with no proof.

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