Methadone Found Near Alexander Jentzsch's Body; LAPD Says Natural Death Or Overdose Likely

AlexanderJentzsch.JPG
Alexander Jentzsch
I just got off the phone with Lt. Paul Vernon of the Los Angeles Police Department, who is overseeing the detectives handling the investigation into the death of Alexander Jentzsch. He just gave me this statement about the police department's understanding of the case so far:

"While I understand people's concerns about the circumstances of this death, by all indications there was no foul play. And given that some medications were present at the scene, and the circumstances leading up to the death, we believe that after the toxicology results comes back, this will end up being either a natural death due to illness or an overdose. And if it is an overdose, it would probably be accidental and not purposeful."

Vernon would not elaborate on the nature of the medications, but the Voice has learned from two sources that Methadone was one of them. Methadone is prescribed to people trying to free themselves from a heroin addiction. (Note: It's also important to point out that methadone is prescribed for chronic pain, and the coroner had been told that Jentzsch was taking medication for a back problem.)

That should come as a shock to Scientologists both in and outside of the church that Alexander belonged to -- and which he worked for as a Sea Org member for 16 years. In the church, an overdose death would be extremely embarrassing, particularly for the son of Heber Jentzsch, president of Scientology.

Alexander died at the home of his in-laws, Jeffrey and Maureen Evans of Sylmar, who told police that Alexander was complaining of a fever before he went to sleep on the night of July 1. The next day, Monday, July 2, Alexander slept all day as the Evenses went out. The next morning, on July 3, they found that Alexander was still in bed, and Vernon says they found it unusual that he was sleeping through a lot of noise in the house. So they checked on him, and found that he was unresponsive.

Karen de la Carriere, Alexander's mother, had been told by L.A. Coroner assistant chief Ed Winter that the Evanses said they took a child to school before returning home and then calling 9-1-1, but Vernon says he is unaware of that detail. He and his detectives will be meeting with de la Carriere later today, he said.

Vernon says that the report about a fever suggests that this may be a natural death of some kind, but the presence of medications points to a possible overdose.

Two days after Alexander's death on July 3, de la Carriere had still not been notified of her son's death -- Alexander's wife, Andrea, and her parents, the Evanses, are Church of Scientology members, and are prevented from having any contact with de la Carriere because, in 2010, she was excommunicated from the church ("declared a suppressive person"). De la Carriere was "declared" for speaking out publicly regarding the treatment of her ex-husband Heber Jentzsch, Alexander's father and the president of the church who was, reportedly, being held in a strange office-prison at Scientology International Base east of Los Angeles.

Because Karen was declared an "SP," her son Alexander was forced by the church to "disconnect" from her, and she never saw or heard from him in the last two years of his life.

She learned about his death on Thursday, July 5, notified the Voice that afternoon, and we broke news of the death that evening. On Saturday the 7th, Karen was denied access to her son's body before it was cremated, again because of her status as an "SP."

The next week, a tabloid website reported that the Coroner's office had asked the LAPD to investigate the death, and the police department reacted by preparing search warrants. But Vernon tells me those press reports were premature. He hasn't been able to get in touch with Winter at the Coroner's office, and at this point the LAPD does not consider this a criminal investigation.

Looks like what we wrote last Thursday is even more accurate today:

Fired, broke, cut off from his mother and father, Alex Jentzsch was in a tough spot on July 2. Had he turned to self-medicating himself with something stronger than prescription drugs and overdone it? For the young, it's one of the more common ways to expire today.

If that's what happened, and the son of the president of the Church of Scientology had died of a drug overdose while his father was incarcerated in a hellish church prison and his mother was untouchable as an excommunicant -- and with the church at the center of a media firestorm over a celebrity divorce -- Scientology had a real mess on its hands the morning of July 3 in that Sylmar home.

I just got off the phone with Karen de la Carriere, who had this to say: "This is a true testament to the success of the Church of Scientology. A child who was born and bred in Scientology, 27 years in the church -- 24 of them in the Sea Org, being educated in the mindset of the church, so that he would disconnect from his own mother, who might have given him an intervention to turn his life around."

She is looking forward to talking with the LAPD detectives today.



Our Alexander Jentzsch Coverage:

On Thursday, July 5 we broke the news of Alex's death after receiving word from his mother, Karen de la Carriere.

On Saturday, July 7 we reported that Karen was being denied a final look at her son before he was cremated because she of her excommunicated status.

On Monday, July 9 we broke the news that Karen had sent out an e-mail about her son's death to more than 10,000 Scientologists.

On Wednesday, July 11 we were first to report that Scientology had relented and was holding a memorial service for Alex, but his mother wasn't invited.

Karen held her own memorial for Alex, spreading rose petals at sea, and there was also video from the event. She then went on KFI radio for a wrenching interview.

On Tuesday, July 17, we reported that the LA Coroner's office was unhappy with unusual answers given by Alex's in-laws regarding his death, and was investigating.

On Thursday, July 19, we published an e-mail sent out to Scientologists which blamed Alex's death on "reaction to a prescribed painkiller."

On Friday, July 20, we talked with Heber Jentzsch's older brother, David, 80, who said Scientology workers had prevented him from talking to Heber for more than three years. The next day, we reported that Heber had called David and chewed him out for talking to the media.


See also:
Scientology's president and the death of his son: our complete coverage
What Katie is saving Suri from: Scientology interrogation of kids
Scientology's new defections: Hubbard's granddaughter and Miscavige's dad
Scientology's disgrace: our open letter to Tom Cruise
Scientology crumbling: An entire mission defects as a group
Scientology leader David Miscavige's vanished wife: Where's Shelly?

Please check out our Facebook author page for updates and schedules.



**********
Tony Ortega has been the editor in chief of the Village Voice since March, 2007. He started writing about Scientology in 1995. You can reach him by e-mail at tortega@villagevoice.com, and if you ask nicely he'll put you on his mailing list for notifications of new stories. You can also catch his alerts at Twitter (@VoiceTonyO), at his Facebook author page, on Pinterest, a Tumblr, and even this new Google Plus doohickey.

New readers might want to check out our primer, "What is Scientology?" Another good overview is our series from last summer, "Top 25 People Crippling Scientology." At the top of every story, you'll see the "Scientology" category which, if you click on it, will bring up all of our most recent stories.

As for hot subjects we've covered here, you may have heard about Debbie Cook, the former church official who rebelled and was sued by Scientology. You might have also heard about the Super Power Building, Scientology's "Mecca," whose secrets were revealed here. We also reported how Scientology spied on its own most precious object, Tom Cruise. (We wrote Tom an open letter that he has yet to respond to.) Have you seen a Scientology ad on TV lately? We debunked some of the claims in that 2-minute commercial you might have seen while watching Glee or American Idol.

Other stories have looked at Scientology's policy of "disconnection" that is tearing families apart. You may also have heard something about the Sea Org experiences of the Paris sisters, Valeska and Melissa, and their friend Ramana Dienes-Browning. We've also featured Paulette Cooper, who wrote about Scientology back in the day, and Janet Reitman, Hugh Urban, and the team at the Tampa Bay Times, who write about it today. And there's plenty more coming.

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393 comments
yupyupUDSUDS
yupyupUDSUDS

Ive worked with Alex and Andrea... Andrea would never do anything which Killian suggest..

Killian
Killian

The more facts about this case that are revealed, the more it seems that somehow his wife and his in-laws had something to do with all this. There is something very wrong here with this picture. If Alex had serious enough health problems to be prescribed methadone and/or similar drugs, what on earth was the wife doing spending all her time having dozens and dozens of pictures taken in pursuit of a so-called "modeling" career (who the hell would hire this woman as a model???) and cavorting around with bottom feeders?

 

Alex's wife is far from what would be considered an "ethical" Scientologist and from what I've been hearing there was possible out-2D involved as well with some photographer.

 

Alex's biggest mistake, aside from not leaving the Sea Org while he was still single, was getting married to this weirdo.

furk
furk

If I'm a Scientologist, like Karen DE LA Carriere, I need to ask, "what did Ron say about methadone?"

"What does Ron say about overdoses?"  "What did Ron say about conspiracies?" "What does Ron say about the Sea Org?" "What does Ron say about potential trouble sources?" "What does Ron say about 'pulling it in?"

Then I would take a quick break and reflect on how Ron's life has improved this planet.  This is not the right time to think about missing and dead friends or family.  Just be grateful for the calm ocean of sanity that is gently spreading over this once enturbulated planet, thanks to Ron. Ron really knew what he was doing.

Now ask yourself, "What did Ron say about discussing the deaths of people on the internet?" "What does Ron say about mothers?"  "What did Ron say about Blogs?" "What did Ron say about.. .

FLUNK
FLUNK

To die of a synthetic drug while alienated by a synthetic religion ... the irony is too deep. And so is the sadness. but I'm even more intrigued ...

media_lush
media_lush

little tidbit from a gossip site 

 

In an interesting coincidence-or-conspiracy moment, upon Tom’s arrival in London, Radar claims that The Church of Scientology will be distributing L. Ron Hubbard’s 1980 book, The Way To Happiness, to Olympic fans. Radar says that the CoS sent out a fundraising letter to help pay for 2 million copies of the book to be distributed for free. Apparently, CoS passed out the book during the World Cup and they claim that as a direct result, it was the “least violent” World Cup ever. So, is that what Tom’s really doing in London?

ashleybee
ashleybee

 @Anonymous  i agree wholeheartedly with your post, that  personal accountability needs to be a factor in all of this!!!  i keep saying there is plenty of blame to go around.  i have posted a few comments pointing to this and have been slammed.  i get it. scientology is a crazy, nasty cult and needs to be stopped.  i also understand that people who are slowly lowered into the COS 'cauldron of lies' are far less likely to jump out. i also empathize with the people who have been victimized by this freak show.  what i don't have patience for are the parents who bring their child into this way of life, drop their kids off at some seaorg. recruiting station, or (and this one really pisses me off) flee the cult and leave their child/ children behind!!  wtf?? 

MariannaP.
MariannaP.

I've been just thinking...the in-laws drove a kid to school before calling 911, well, it seems strange, it seems inhumaine, it seems whatever, BUT where a scientology kid is supposed to go to school? A normal school? Or a scientology-based school? There is no doubt, that a scientology-based school would be a perfect place where the in-laws can easily meet an agent sent by the OSA who can give them whatever it is to stage the death...

5lttlestones
5lttlestones

here's a a questoin ... How many doctors in the United States are practicing scientologists? out of those doctors how many of them are board certified physicians with the American Medical Association? How many of those doctors who are practicing scientologists have been sanctioned by the American Medical Association? what kind of doctors are running the NARCONON drug rehab centers. Do any of these doctors write methadone prescriptions?

N.Graham
N.Graham

TO on FB  just mentioned a new post coming!

MariannaP.
MariannaP.

What I really appreciated before was that if there were new comments and if any new comment was a reply to some comment X, you could see this  comment X in a small window by clicking on it. It was REALLY helpful, it was easy to figure out the context and follow the idea. Now you only have something like @ @ @ @ in a new message and you just don't get what is this all about, even if it takes you to the thread it's not easy to understand to which statement it refers, sometimes it needs to scroll far and you just forget the new message.

 

 

Sue_B
Sue_B

Having read some of the details of the perverse childhood and young adulthood to which Alexander was subjected, I can see how heroin might have been the only option open to him to gain some respite from the emotional pain he must have endured. My heart breaks for that poor boy - he never stood a chance.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I don't know exactly how it is in California, but here in the good old state of Illinois, you have to go in every day to get your methadone so you don't overdose. They also drug test you to make sure it is in your system so you don't sell it. Here in Illinois, after a pretty long time coming in every day to get your Methadone, they will prescribe you "take-homes" for a few days and gradually move you up if you are successful. So either Alex was in the methadone program for a long time OR he was getting it illegally. And see as it seemed that he was taking it recreationally, I'm leaning towards the latter. So sad. I used drugs to numb myself from pain, but I had many people who cared about me that helped me get out of it. Alex had no one, because the Church of Scientology made it this way. As a former drug addicts, listen to me when I say this: SCIENTOLOGY IS JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME AS ALEX. Yes, he has to take responsibility, as every addict does. But they isolated him. They should be ashamed of themselves.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

Maybe I missed something, but I never saw you get "slammed," I just saw people trying to show you that it isn't as easy as you are making it.

5lttlestones
5lttlestones

 @ashleybee  yeah, right there with ya on that point but you have to consider the degree of inculcation that going on .the members appear almost as if they silently are complying for the betterment of the planet. i would really love to have a well respected sociologist weigh in on why do people join a group but yet lose their individual voice! its almost as if it is a mob mentality.

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @ashleybeeAlexander was a child when he was recruited. He was in his 20s when his mother left the church, and she did not cut ties with him, OSA forced him to cut ties with her.

 

Those of us who joined the cult in our late teens/early 20s (or later) are definitely those who can be called out on personal accountability, but please remember there are children whose only "crime" was being born into a Scientology family. Alexander was one of those children.

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @MariannaP.It seems strange because it is strange, I don't believe that timeline the in-laws are giving. If I find a dead body in my house, I'm not taking the dog for a walk and checking my email before I call the cops. That piece of the story is just one more WTF in a sea of WTFs.

 

MariannaP.
MariannaP.

I want to say that I don't think that it was necessarily so, but there still is the possibility that  this episode was not only strange, this episode may have served the in-laws in some way or another.

Ole_Nick
Ole_Nick

 @AnonymousMeg  People are prescribed methadone for pain fairly routinely. Alex supposedly had a back injury. It's not that complicated.

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @AnonymousMeg  We don't know that Alex was an addict. We don't know that he was obtaining the methadone illegally, or that he was taking this or any drug recreationally. The initial report only said prescription drugs were found in the room with him.

 

All that we do know for sure, is that Alex is dead and that his death is a tragedy.

 

 

 

all.clear
all.clear

@5lttlestones @ashleybee and the irony is they lose their selves and self worth in an org who's message is you are your own individual super power. I just don't get it at all. Please show me one thing these OT's have done to save the planet that any mere mortal cannot do!

MariannaP.
MariannaP.

 @kimloss4 That is the point...everybody thought that this was inhumaine and meaningless, but nobody actually thought that there could be a sense in it.

If the school really is a scientology-based school then you should read "drove a child to the school, came back and called 911" as "drove to a CoS facility, came back and called 911".

What if...what if they couldn't call 911 BEFORE going there?

What if they needed to get rid of something from his room before calling 911 (give it to an OSA agent)  or what if they needed to plant something into his room before (given by an OSA agent ) ?

 

5lttlestones
5lttlestones

 @smallchange the AMA ( American Medical Association)is on the internet . when you want to check out a doctor you go on the web site and they also list formal complaints which may have been filed against the doctor. everyone has the right to ask these questions and to seek information. the AMA certification is not something to be taken lightly and if a doctor is practicing with out one then there is something not up to par with the doctor. information is free on the internet you just need to be persistent .

WhereIsSHE
WhereIsSHE

 @Ole_Nick  @AnonymousMeg Methadone prescribed for pain "fairly routinely"? On WHAT PLANET?! (or maybe I should ask, "In what SECTOR OF THE UNIVERSE?!"

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I was a nurse. It's not very routinely. It's when all else has failed. Over my 5 year career, I saw it maybe twice, and it was for people who had been taking pain medication for a long time. I don't think the accident was that long ago.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I didn't make this clear in my prior post-- If he was taking it, he was probably taking it recreationally because if he was going to a clinic every day, someone would've known. You can't hold down a job and relationships without people knowing you are spending several hours a day somewhere. You cannot bring methadone home with you unless you have been in the program for a very long time. But obviously I could be wrong. Just speculating, mostly because I'm bored at work and I need to exercise my brain. Just trying to educate people that might not know about things like methadone since I obviously know A LOT

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

No, we don't, but seeing as he was the only one staying in the room (his estranged wife was not there) and he is dead now, I do feel comfortable speculately that it had something to do with his death- after all, we are commenting in an article about the methadone. So it's not like this isn't the appropriate forum to speculate. 27-year-olds don't just drop dead. So if the report about the methadone being there is right, it was either there by prescription or illegally. If the report is wrong, obviously the conversation is null and void. How many times have we heard stories about drugs, illegal or prescription, around a famous person who died? And then 6 weeks later we find out that's exactly what caused the death?

 

I am not trying to smear his name; trust me, I am the first to say that addicts are people just like everyone else. If he did turn to drugs, I will say this: If he never got involved with Scientology (if he could talk to his mother and father) he would be alive right now!

smallchange
smallchange

 @5lttlestones The AMA does its best not to report complaints unless they are of the most egregious nature. Its an organization by physicians, for physicians. But even if you are correct about that, I can't imagine that they would post religious affiliations.

5lttlestones
5lttlestones

 @WhereIsSHE great point! i keep asking the question of LIFE INSURANCE and if someone dies does the cult have life insurance policies on its staff members and if so, who would be the beneficiary? how many policy pay outs have ended up in scientology coffers?

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I can think of more clues and elaborate, but I think most people can figure it out. The point is that it is possible he was an addict and if he was it was directly caused by the isolated life Scientology made him lead. If he was an addict, they are just as responsible for his death as if they gave him the drug themselves.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

you know more about Scientology than me, but I can answer some of what you said.

 

It was an e-mail to members of Scientology- while it might've been written by PR, it wasn't meant to be read outside of Scientology. It was not "a released statement" to the media or anything.Tony got a hold of the email and gave the contents to us. I agree, it can be used as evidence from a legal standpoint, but they can't get in trouble for writing it unless it is proven to be wrong. They seem pretty sure they aren't wrong. I completely agree it is a red flag- just not something that can be prosecuted on its own.

 

As for your insurance statement, Methadone is extremely cheap. A lot of people at the methadone clinic don't have insurance, they just pay a weekly fee.

 

Addicts live for years hiding addiction from their loved ones such as parents and spouses. He could easily hide it from his in-laws.

 

I am not saying he was an addict, but he could've been, or he might not have been. I haven't heard anythign to convince me to rule either way.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

You aren't a jerk- a lot of things point to addiction. They are:

1. As you said, he was broke.

2. He had an accident which could've caused pain, which he would want drugs to treat

3. He was isolated and alone

4. He laid in bed all day.

 

 

victoriapandora
victoriapandora

 @WhereIsSHE

 Alex had been out and about in the "wog" world the last few weeks of his life. Inculding going to a large recording studio in Hollywood to record some songs. So, he could have "scored." I have no idea how much methadone is on the street. But it seems Alex was asking just about everyone for money... did he need to get on his feet or did he need a fix? I feel like a jerk even speculating on this, it's just I can't quite get it out of my mind.

WhereIsSHE
WhereIsSHE

PoisonIvy-

We are on the same page.

You are right about illegal drug use/abuse at Narconon, not to mention the deplorable conditions where the enrollees are housed. (If you weren't an addict upon arrival, you could surely end up an addict by the time they "let you go".)

 

But  I doubt Alex was ever at a Narconon, and here is why. Narconon isn't really meant to "treat" active Scientologists. If Alexander had some sort of drug problem/addiction,--and it was discovered-- someone would have written him up in a Knowledge Report and he would have been "handled" differently.(Like maybe sec-checked to death or some such other harmful course of action.)

 

From what I have read, Narconon isn't really intended to treat ANY addicts.  Rather, it is just another RECRUITMENT FRONT for the "Church"; another avenue to steer vulnerable victims into their greedy, abusive, fraudulent clutches. (Sort of in the same way that "STERLING MANAGEMENT" isn't really meant to help small business professionals, but rather to recruit them into the cult in order to fleece them of their personal wealth, etc.)

PoisonIvy
PoisonIvy

 @WhereIsSHE Agree with everything you said above.  I posted a while back, how did they KNOW per the release that he died of a "bad reaction to a prescription drug"? Especially when the first statement out of the in-laws was he had a fever?   Re how did he get the methadone in a wog world, it's possible he didn't get it in a won world, if he was at a Narconon facility. From all I've read of Narconon in the past few days, it's a hotbed of illegal drug sales. Of course all rehab facilities attract drug dealers, trying to get addicts at a weak moment.  The best ones are aware of this and hip to the tricks used to get drugs inside their places.  But it's clear that Naronon is NOT a real rehab.

WhereIsSHE
WhereIsSHE

AnonMeg-

That was not just an email among "friends". That was a Church statement/PR release. There is no expression of "just speculating" about the cause of death. There is an expression of a definitive cause of death.

No one here is naive enough to believe otherwise.

From a LEGAL standpoint, depending on what the investigation reveals, you can bet your bottom dollar that this email could be a crucial piece of evidence.

Just because he can backtrack as you have suggested does not mean that he will be believed.

KNOWING the cause of death-- before it has been officially ruled the cause of death-- and particularly where the cause of death is not capable of being KNOWN until forensic analysis takes place to DETERMINE the cause of death-- is a RED FLAG for law enforcement.

And just because someone can backtrack on their words, does not mean they are not fodder for intense cross-examination should a case go to trial.

 

Here is yet another problem for them:

Do scientologists have health insurance? I mean.. do they have Personal Choice? Co-pays?? Prescription coverage??? More specifically, did Alexander? And if so, how did he pay for it? How did he manage co-pays??

 

OR.. if this methadone was allegedly purchased on the street illegally, how is it that Alexander, in particular, --who grew up/spent his entire life INSIDE OF THIS CULT-- made his way into the "wog" world to buy illicit drugs? And further along that line, how the heck did he manage to keep it a secret? He was LIVING WITH HIS IN LAWS. He was subject to KNOWLEDGE REPORTS and ETHICS CHECKS.

 

It doesn't add up.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

Oh I agree- thats how he meant to do it. I just mean if it comes back to be untrue, he can just say "Oh I was just speculating among friends" or something. He killed two birds with one stone: 1. He let people in the Church know that Alex died because he took drugs, which had nothing to do with Scientology and 2. He indirectly let the general public know the same thing.

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @AnonymousMeg The email was fishy, given Scn's secrecy and phobia of leaks - he invited people to "share it with anyone and everyone" and that rather struck me as a covert "press release" on Alex's death.

 

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

Well, it was a private person who wrote in an email that that was how he died- he isn't held to any standard of truth. He can easily just assume it because of a prescription. The e-mail was from one person to another, like us on here- you don't have to be telling the truth. I agree that prescribing methadone is a last-ditch effort, but it is a possibility. We aren't sure, as you said. This is a forum to share information and speculate.

WhereIsSHE
WhereIsSHE

The "church" said he died as a result of a "reaction" to a  "prescribed medication".

 

How could they KNOW that?

 

It certainly would not be a determination one could make without a toxicology analysis.

It is not a conclusion one could reach simply because prescription medication happened to be in the same room where a dead body was found.

 

IF he did die as a result of an adverse reaction to methadone, further investigation is required.

 

Who allegedly presribed it? What was the basis for the prescription? What dose was he given? How frequently was he being monitored?

 

Prescribing methadone for pain (typically for CANCER patients and not those who suffer minor back pain as a result of a long-ago automotive accident) carries far more risk than prescribing a myriad of other pain medications.

 

 

 

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

He is right, it is prescribed for pain sometimes, but as a nurse I did not see it very often- twice over five years. But, I was on a heart floor, not a pain floor, so I can't really say. Both of those patients I had were cancer patients- methadone treats pain for a longer period of time than conventional pain-killers (it can last 12-24 hours). Oh, I think one might've been sickle cell- so chronic pain too

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @SvenBoogieIndeed he did. I guess he wasn't joking when he said that he wasn't a Scientologist.

 

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

No I understand and I did get most of what you are saying! I do want to learn the lingo so I am glad you use it :)

SvenBoogie
SvenBoogie

 @KimLoss "Hubbard's theory that drugs stop the process of creating mental image pictures..."

 

Yet Hubbard used all sorts of drugs recreationally and otherwise. Hubbard was a con man and this was just another part of the con. 

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @AnonymousMegOMG I tried hard not to use a bunch of lingo but I'm at work and was in a hurry so it creeped in, I'm sorry about that! CS stands for Case Supervisor, that's the person who reviews information about a person and decides what steps they should be doing in order to make progress. Programs are the written instructions of those steps and are kept in a folder with other information about the person. SO = Sea Org, and auditing is the processing steps I just mentioned. Mental image pictures are 3D pictures which are believed to be continuously made by the mind. Mental image pictures are the stuff that a person addresses in various ways as they undergo Scn processing. The electrical conductivity is an issue because of the E-meters that Scn employ. If your body's electromagnetic field is disrupted then it can cause things which should be addressed to remain hidden from the auditor - the person who is applying whatever processes to another. In short, the Scn belief is that drugs will hide the things that need to be addressed from view, rendering auditing ineffectual.

 

Psyche drugs are the root of all evil, as you correctly guessed. Any drug is frowned upon to an extent, and Scn will go to great lengths (like the novacainless tooth extractions I mentioned) to avoid taking medications of any kind because of the effects they're believed to have. I think it was Tory Magoo who was asked/ordered/encouraged to stop taking a drug to control her epilepsy, as another example of the mindset of a Scn re: drugs. 

 

That said, if someone has been in a bad accident and is taking pain medication, you don't wait 6 weeks to try to help them in some way. And that's where the assists come in. Think of them as a stopgap measure to be used until the person is well enough to stop the meds that are blocking auditing.

 

Sorry for the long answer to your simple question. Nothing in Scn is simple to explain because of the loaded language, and because one thing leads into an explanation of 10 others in order to convey a concept.

Ceridwen
Ceridwen

 @AnonymousMeg "...it was for people who had been taking pain medication for a long time."

Agreed. This is not something that is prescribed because it is low cost for patients who are financially challenged; it's done when a patient has been on other (usually opiates) pain medications for years, and is still suffering from chronic pain.

My anesthesiologist talked with me about methadone a few years ago, as well as oxycontin, for my chronic pain issues, and I

refused to use either, as the addiction, OD and death rates from these medications are simply staggering.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I think I got most of what you are saying, but I don't understand a lot of the Scientology lingo! So I apologize. As I take it, prescriptions drugs aren't really bad in Scientology, just the psychiatry ones?

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @Ole_Nick That's right, though in many cases a Scn taking meds would be required to wait up to 6 weeks for auditing. It's based on Hubbard's theory that drugs stop the process of creating mental image pictures and impede electrical conductivity of the nervous system. These two things prevent auditing until the effects of the drugs wear off, and Scn believe that auditing is senior to any other type of treatment for ills, injuries and ailments.  I've known SO members who had teeth pulled without novacaine so that they could go into session after the fact and run out the incident.  

 

Now in the case of a person who is under the influence of medication, a Scn would give assists - processes that are designed to alleviate physical discomfort and give temporary relief to the person who receives it. They're meant to alleviate the physical aspects of the problem, but are not considered a substitute for auditing. Any time I CS's a person on meds I would have an assist program run for the weeks it would take for the drugs to get out of their system and then put them in session to address the spiritual cause of the injury or ailment.

 

 

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I did not know that about Scientology- that is interesting.

 

It is definitely easy to buy methadone on the street. If he was taking it legally (if he had a prescription) it shouldn't have killed him, unless he was taking more than he should have. Like I said, I was just speculating, knowing what I do about those drugs. He might've had a prescription, he might not have. I'm assuming we will find out eventually. It's interesting to think that he had all these problems after his accident but never called his mother. I can't imagine going it alone.

Ole_Nick
Ole_Nick

 @AnonymousMeg I know 2 people who have prescriptions for methadone for pain and It's fairly easy to buy methadone on the street from people who have it for the same reason.

 

I've spoken to scientologists who have told me they are allowed to take medications prescribed by a physician including pain killers, but not 24 hrs before an auditing session. They aren't allowed to take drugs that would generally fall under the "psychotropic" category of drugs.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

As a medical professional it is not only disgusting but extremely dangerous! Like you said, alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal can certainly kill you. Opiate withdrawal isn't often deadly but it can be so uncomfortable and depressing that you want to kill yourself! And in a small percentage of cases a person can get so dehydrated they could die. But Narconon isn't just bad because they treat withdrawal-- there is also drug use rampant in their facilities! Its a joke, and unsuspecting parents send their kids to the facilities thinking it is a good choice (Most people don't know it is affiliated with Scientology- I only did recently!)

5lttlestones
5lttlestones

 @ashleybee  @AnonymousMeg glad you are in recovery! thanks for sharing your experience. perhaps we will see more of the truth emerge about drug abuse which is hidden with in scientology. 

ashleybee
ashleybee

 @AnonymousMeg i'm also in recovery, have been sober for many years now.  when i checked into rehab i remember they drug tested me (i'm alcoholic so i didn't expect to come up positive for anything) and i came up positive for methadone... i vaguely remember getting methadone pills from a friend at a party and took them thinking 'why not'.  ...but she had a prescription and she sold them. don't know where or how she got them or for what reason though.  i also relapsed enough to know that alcohol withdrawal (and withdrawal from a few other things xanex, etc) can kill.  the idea of pumping detoxing patients full of vitamins and sticking them in a sauna is disgusting. 

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

Also, I might be biased. I work with addicts, so I obviously see a lot of methadone-caused problems. I was just contributing what I know about methadone and addiction. I don't know anything about Co$, never been in it. So I was just speculating. Anything is possible- all I was trying to say was that if he was an addict or if he overdosed, the Co$ is to blame for taking away the very people who could've helped him. There is no shame in being an addict, at least there shouldn't be. Anyone can be an addict had their life been different.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I definitely understand what you are saying. But it was Tony who heard from a source (and Tony is usually right) that said the methadone was there. The tox reports will tell us whether he had it in his system. It would not be the first death from methadone from a young person- we have seen it a few times here. So it is definitely in the realm of possibility. We will see when the tox reports come back

RobertEckert
RobertEckert

 @AnonymousMeg I don't feel comfortable at all assuming the methadone was the cause of death, or that Alexander took it at all.  We are dealing with pathological liars and a story that does not add up very well.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

I could be wrong, but I think they say "prescription" or "illicit" drug to classify the drug... It doesn't mean the person has a prescription, it just means it's a prescribed one, not an illicit one. Again, could be wrong. Also, if someone is doctor shopping, they can have a legal prescription, but it is illegal to do that. That's how medications interact and prove deadly- people don't tell their doctors the truth about what else they are taking. Not saying this is what happened, just putting it out there as a possibility.

 

As for drugging someone with methadone- now I would think the amount that you would have to use to kill them would be tasted. But, if it was just meant to interact with another medicine, there wouldn't need to be as much taken. I'm inclined to say no, it isn't possible to drug someone, but it could be a small possibility.

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @smallchange I have no idea about the methadone, maybe AnonymousMeg can answer that one. For my part, I'm very interested to see who prescribed it (if it turns out to be subscribed) and whether or not that person has Scn connections/affiliations.

 

smallchange
smallchange

 @AnonymousMeg  @kimloss4  Really going out there with this hypothesis but:  is it possible to mix methadone in orange juice or some beverage, in other words, is it tasteless, where it could be administered surreptitiously?

 

Supposedly, the police issued a statement that there were prescription drugs found. So that would seem to indicate that the methadone was prescribed, since the officer further stated that he expects the toxicology reports to reflect that.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

The in-laws seem quite strange, but I'm thinking they are definitely scared too. I'm sure the OSA is up their ass telling them exactly what to say and who to say it to. Eventually they will slip up, I believe.

WhereIsSHE
WhereIsSHE

Right.

And on that note:

Why isn't the mother-in-law cooperating with/speaking to the authorities??? Or... pun intended, why is she CLAMming up?

 

Something STINKS about this whole situation, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it leads right back to the smelly fish at the top.

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

Yes, this certainly isn't over. They waited quite some time to call for help, which means they could have manipulated the scene. Hopefully this story gets enough coverage that the right people are looking into it, meaning that Scientology can't get away with any lies or cover-ups.

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @AnonymousMeg Yes, that's what I meant by statement - it was their side of events, presented before the actual investigation to determine cause of death. But ofc they have it all wrapped up.

 

The Church will no doubt spin this internally: Alex was PTS to his SP mother and that's the reason for all his troubles. PTS stands for Potential Trouble Source and is a person who is connected to and being adversely affected by a suppressive person. They can use it as further proof that disconnecting from dissidents is necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones.

 

They'll use Alex's death any way they can use it to 1) hurt Karen and 2) control their members.

 

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

Did they actually issue a statement, or are you talking about the e-mail they sent out about his funeral? I think (if you are talking about the e-mail) the point of saying that about the overdose is to tell its members essentially that "Alex was a bad Scientologist, he used drugs, that's why he is dead." So church members can feel better about the fact he didn't talk to his mother- to them, he died because he was a bad Scientologist. They can tell themselves that if he followed Scientology's rules, he would still be alive.

 

As for what you said about OT VII's in the house, you can probably shed more light on that part than me. I know all about methadone and drug addiction, but not a whole lot about how Scientology works. I'm guessing they just didn't understand the gravity of the situation. They thought he just had the flu or something.

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @AnonymousMeg I wouldn't put ANYTHING past the church, but I don't really think they planted it, at least I haven't formed that opinion so far. But I have lots of questions. Why did they feel it necessary to issue a statement to the effect that he died from an overdose? Why did they feel a need to issue any kind of statement at all? And wtf were two OT VIIs doing with a sick person in their house that was left unattended? No assist program to help him recover? No attempt to lower his fever? Never a thought that he might need a doctor? Medical attention is actually allowed in Scn, though it's not viewed as the first "go to" in most cases. But isn't Scientology supposed to have the answer to all life's problems? Please, I just don't believe they were not running any kind of program on him.  Given who he was, or rather who his parents are, I also don't believe for a second that OSA wasn't involved.

 

AnonymousMeg
AnonymousMeg

 @kimloss4 Are you saying they could have planted it? Because I'm definitely listening. The Church is capable of anything. I didn't think of that mainly because in my experience as a counselor I tried to shy away from anything that took responsibility away from the addict because they needed to take responsibility for their own actions. But you are right. Scientology could say "Oh look, he took drugs and died, he wasn't a good Scientology, and oh by the way we were right all along- drugs are bad!"

KimLoss
KimLoss

 @AnonymousMeg Ofc this is a place for speculation. I'm just noting that the truth is not known about his drug use. Given that the church was so quick to claim his death was due to an "adverse reaction to a prescription medication" I have my doubts. That he was in the house of two active, in good standing OTs and doing drugs at all is still unexplained. I didn't even have aspirin in my medicine cabinet when I was in the church, and nobody would have come in my house and use drugs. The whole story stinks to high heaven, as they say.

 

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