"Tom Cruise Worships David Miscavige Like a God": A Scientology Insider Gives First Full-Length Interview to the Voice

Categories: Scientology

L. Ron Hubbard, film director
3. La Quinta

Brousseau drove back to California and was taken to Hubbard's ranch in La Quinta, where the science fiction writer was hiding out and had taken up directing movies.

Five years earlier, in 1973, while Hubbard was still at sea, he and his wife Mary Sue wanted to come back onto land, but they were concerned that there was too much damaging information about them in the files of the U.S. government. So they came up with a plan they called Operation Snow White to remove that material -- by infiltrating hundreds of government offices over several years with the use of operatives from Scientology's "Guardian's Office." The theft of documents finally ended with a massive July, 1977 FBI raid on Scientology offices in Washington DC and Los Angeles. Since that time, Mary Sue and ten other Scientologists were being prosecuted and faced prison time, while Hubbard was only named an "unindicted co-conspirator." But he worried that at any time, he too could be pulled into the prosecution.

After the raid, Hubbard had first run from his La Quinta, California ranch to Sparks, Nevada. While he was in hiding, the American public was buzzing that spring and summer over the most successful science fiction movie ever released, George Lucas's Star Wars. Perhaps frustrated that his own tales hadn't experienced that kind of success, Hubbard spent his time in hiding writing a screenplay, Revolt in the Stars, using the bizarre tales of the galactic overlord Xenu which were part of Scientology's super-secret upper-level teachings. As Jon Atack explains in his excellent history, A Piece of Blue Sky, Hubbard realized that he didn't have the resources to make such an ambitious film, so he decided to develop a crew making smaller, internal training films. He moved back to his La Quinta ranch to make movies while Mary Sue cooled her heels at a house off Mulholland Drive in Los Angeles, awaiting prosecution for Operation Snow White.

Hubbard assembled a crew of young Sea Org members building sets, making costumes, and memorizing lines in California's desert. Among them was David Miscavige, an 18-year-old from South Philly, who had been named chief cameraman. "Marc Yager was deputy cameraman, Jim Jaroff was the video cameraman -- we called him 'JVC I/C' for being "in charge" of the JVC video unit -- and I was the JVC assistant. There were four of us guys in the camera unit," Brousseau says.

I asked him what Miscavige was like then.

"He was a little bit of a punk. The little bully bastard in high school, kicking people and laughing at their misfortune. He didn't have a lot of power yet, so he wasn't 'Miscavige unplugged' like he was in the 2000s," he says.

About five days into his new job, Brousseau saw L. Ron Hubbard for the first time. "He was walking somewhere with a couple of messengers. Hey, come meet LRH, someone said. 'This is John Brousseau,' they said. Hubbard said, 'Terrific. Great. Nice to meet you,' something like that. Afterwards, I don't know, I just thought, wow, I met the dude, cool."

Although he'd finished the comm course back in San Francisco, Brousseau was really absorbing none of Hubbard's writings and philosophy as a member of the Sea Org. There just wasn't time. They were working every minute of the day. And while they work, all Sea Org members know the saying, "No case on post." Meaning, that they could not work on their spiritual "case" -- advancing up Scientology's "Bridge to Total Freedom" -- as long as they were on the clock. "No one in the Sea Org has much of a case," Brousseau points out. "You just work every day. You hardly progress as far as auditing. Everything is a screaming emergency, year after year," he says.

That's ironic, because when Scientology is challenged in court about the way its Sea Org members are treated, they are quick to characterize the Sea Org as a monastic community and a religious order. But former Sea Org members tell me that they did anything but ecclesiastical matters while they were on post.

"It was just a lot of panic," he says. "We were making training films for auditors and stuff. All the actors were Sea Org members, the makeup unit, wardrobe. Very few if any professional actors were brought in, like today. LRH was the director. It was new and exciting for a 21-year-old," he says.

I asked him about Hubbard's legendary temper on the set. "He'd get pissed off and yell at people, but I never really saw him go nuts," Brousseau says. "He'd yell something like 'Goddammit, you guys screwed this up and we're almost out of light! Can you please get it right!' That kind of thing. But then he'd seek out people he yelled at. He was actually pretty good at patching people up."

During his two months in the Cine Org, Brousseau lived in a couple of different places at the La Quinta ranch. "There was a large ranch house. In a bedroom there would be three sets of double bunks, so six guys. It wasn't too crowded." There were several similar houses on the property, filled with Sea Org workers.

Among the workers was a teenaged girl named VerDawn Hartwell. Brousseau remembers when VerDawn's parents, Ernie and Adell Hartwell, showed up at the ranch. "They were really old," he says. "They looked like they were in their late 60s or early 70s. Really out of place. Everyone was young. Hippie types. They stood out," he says. But they had some peripheral experience in the entertainment industry, and had been asked to come to the Cine Org. Shocked by the conditions they found, with young Sea Org members living in squalor, the Hartwells soon left, and were severely harassed by Scientology operatives, as Atack describes in detail. They ultimately went to the police.

"LRH had to leave real quick," Brousseau says, once word got back that the Hartwells had fed information about La Quinta to the authorities. Suddenly, the movie making experiment was over.

"Everything was moved to Gilman Hot Springs, but LRH went to Hemet, a location we called 'X'."

4. X

Some time earlier, Scientology had purchased a 700-acre property near Highway 79 that included an old resort, Gilman Hot Springs, the site of the church's international management headquarters to this day. Most of the people working at La Quinta went there, but Hubbard wanted to stay in a separate place. A small apartment complex in Hemet was chosen -- the Mayflower Apartments -- and its location was kept strictly secret even from other Scientologists.

Five apartments were rented -- one for Hubbard, three for a small number of staff, and one apartment just for storage. Only about 10 staff lived at the apartments with Hubbard.

Brousseau was one of them.

"When we moved to Hemet, I became Hubbard's chauffeur," he says. "That's how I got to know him personally."

I asked Brousseau about the stories of Hubbard, during this period, going out in public wearing outrageous disguises. But Brousseau says there was nothing very outlandish about it.

"He had a baseball cap, and around the band of the cap was a little brown hair. Maybe he had a little something on his eyebrows, but it wasn't extensive. His hair was starting to turn grey, but not much. The red part of his hair was fucking red. He had piercing blue eyes and very, very red hair. The ball cap hid most of it, so it really changed his appearance," he says.

"He was walking around Hemet. He was nine miles from Int Base [at Gilman Hot Springs] where there were hundreds of people who knew him by sight. But no one spotted him," Brousseau remembers. "I'd drive him to a shopping center and he'd walk around and buy some useless stuff. Some cookies or candies for his people. Or I would drive him to the forest to get some exercise. There were dirt roads near the San Jacinto River. Pretty. A nice place to walk. He'd do maybe a mile of walking and then we'd go back. It was a daily thing, just to get some air.

"I would walk with him, and with maybe one or two messengers. We might have a little lunch packed. Folding chairs, a folding table. Everyone would sit down and shoot the shit for 20 or 30 minutes. He was just like a regular guy," he says. "I remember when he looked up and saw a sailplane. 'You know I used to do that,' he said. He talked about what they were like, with canvas over wood in those days. How to land them. It sounded cool. I told him I could take him to the Hemet airport to do that. It was only 30 bucks to get a lift. The next day he came down to the van. I asked him, what do you want to do today? 'I want to fly a sailplane.' So we started to drive over there. But he changed his mind. I'm getting too old for that, he said."

Hubbard had flown sailplanes in his youth. But as with just about everything else, while Hubbard had actually lived an amazing life, he had a hard time recounting it with any faithfulness. As Russell Miller shows with excellent detail in his 1987 biography, Bare-Faced Messiah, Hubbard enjoyed some flying success, but then fibbed wildly about it, saying that he'd set numerous world records and made daring exploits -- even at times when he didn't possess a flying license.

Knowing Hubbard's track record for veracity, however, Brousseau still has fond memories of his time with the man.

"The dude was a regular guy. I've read everything about his life. He made mistakes, I get it. He definitely embellished things. And the church ran with it. Then Gerry Armstrong came along and said this shit is crap, and we'd do a lot better if we cut the crap and stuck to the truth -- and he got hammered for it. Not by LRH, but he got hammered," Brousseau says. (Armstrong had been a Sea Org member who had sailed on the Apollo with Hubbard; he had later gathered documents about Hubbard that a professional writer was later hired to turn into an authorized biography. When Armstrong realized that original documents from Hubbard's life contradicted so much of what Hubbard and the church said about him, he spoke up about it and was punished by his superiors. He left Scientology, and was the subject of years of nasty litigation by the church. But the document's he'd found formed the basis for books such as those by Miller and Atack.)

Brousseau says that about a dozen times he drove Hubbard from "X" to the Int Base at Gilman Hot Springs. "Mostly to go and shoot stills for a picture book that he wanted to put together. I would drive him in secretly to meet with people in the Cine Org, and then drive him out," he says.

Each time, it involved an intricate process to make sure that no one followed Hubbard back to his Hemet apartment.

"We had a second van held in storage about five miles away. Another guy would park that van at a Denny's. We'd drive to the Denny's, switch vans, and then drive to Int Base. When we came back, we'd switch again. Then I'd have to drive with the second guy to put the second van in storage again. My van was parked at X, and I didn't want to drive it into Int Base."

One trip in particular stands out in his memory.

"It was Christmas 1979. He was at old Bonnie View before Miscavige bulldozed it," Brousseau says, referring to a mansion on the grounds that was set aside for Hubbard to live in, if he ever moved to the base. "Mary Sue showed up. And their kids. Diana and Jonathan with little Roanne. Arthur. Suzette. Mary Sue had her own domestic staff with her. They were laughing and having a good time as a family. I remember thinking it was fun, and that they didn't get to do this very often. Mary Sue was about to go to prison."

(Mary Sue Whipp was Hubbard's third wife. Diana was their daughter, and she had married Jonathan Horwich in 1971 while aboard the Apollo. They had a daughter, Roanne Horwich, who we reported recently has broken away from the Int Base after living there most of her life. Diana's younger siblings, Arthur and Suzette, left Scientology long ago. Mary Sue died in 2002. Diana Hubbard is now the only member of the family still living at the base.)

Shortly after that Christmas dinner, with Mary Sue facing her trial, Hubbard decided in 1980 that it was time to disappear altogether.

"I'm the guy who went and bought another van, known to no one but Pat and Annie Broeker," Brousseau says. The Broekers were part of the staff at X, and were becoming Hubbard's most trusted aides.

"Pat gave me cash, told me to buy a van and to tell no one. I bought a used Ford cargo van. I put a foam mattress in it, with bedding and pillows. I put it in storage. Then I told Pat that it was there, and that it was filled with gas. The next day, I picked up LRH with the Broekers at X. No one else at X knew about it," he says.

"It was the last time I saw him. He got in the van and sat on the corner of the mattress, his elbows on his knees. He held out his hand. 'All right, John. Thanks for everything. I'll see you,' LRH said. Pat was driving. Annie was in the back with him. Then they drove off. I never saw him again."

My Voice Nation Help

How do Scientologists approach sex...?  I know it's a broad question, but when I read about cults or religious groups online, they is usually something about sexual rituals or initiations, group sex, or special favors for the leader. Not so with Scientology, which appears to wogs like me to be  almost anti-sex.


This is fantastic....The countdown has started. I want to see Miscavige in a prison cell with a very tall,muscular cell-mate who LOVES little middle aged blond guys....

QuickInfo like.author.displayName 1 Like

       Great article as always Tony, waiting for my daily fix so I stopped on over. Found this news piece from Friday and dont know if you covered it/Hopefully you are all aware of descent news.  I am sure its a combination of a lot of things, but a desion by the suits to PULL in the Master a month earlier.  Thought you guys would appreicate it it is a bit Off Topic: the Article is as follows


 You'll be able to see The Master a month earlier now

Hoping to bolster its already solid chances at getting some award-season recognition—and moving it up to before Tom Cruise finishes his ascension and makes everyone realize the folly of questioning Scientology, even in fictionalized form—The Weinstein Company has changed the release date of The Master from October 12 to September 14. Of course, the one less month you'll have to wait to see Paul Thomas Anderson and Philip Seymour Hoffman tear pseudo-religion a new one means one more month you'll have to wait to see Brad Pitt and James Gandolfini in the mob drama Killing Them Softly, which has now been moved to Oct. 19. But it also means fewer days to fill with studying cryptic teasers and posters and the full Master trailer




torymagoo44 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @QuickInfo Thanks for the info re "The Master"!  And this will be all over the USA (re the one month in advance)?


Also,  thank you, Tony O and JB for the great stories! I think some of my favorite stories, having been "in"  for 30 years, totally "loyal",

then woke up in 2000, and literally escaped out....are those about LRH, as SO much of his history was kept hush-hush as you so well describe.


I worked in what I call the OSA Int Top Secret Internet Mafia as an OT Volunteer---and they were SO into "OO7"...it was frightening. People *really* get off on that, and thus lose sight of what they are *really* doing. Anyways, thank you to both of you! I can't wait to read Part 2 :) You should *seriously* consider writing a book, John. I'm sure there's TONS more once you get going...and it's very interesting facts that few people can speak about. Hell, I bet you could write just a book on "The Last days of Hubbard" and it'd Rock. Or "What driving L Ron Hubbard around was *really* like". I'd buy it :) Think about it....:) Best, Tory/Magoo

QuickInfo like.author.displayName 1 Like


Hey Tory,  It is an honor to speak with you.

Re: The Master: yes, Harvey Wienstein Company pulled it in by a month to Friday September 14th.  I am sure there are a lot of reasons and factors behind this but the 2 main things  that come to my mind are  1) to capitialize on the popularity brought about by "the divorce" and 2) to swap it with the more violent mob drama Killing Them Softly due to its content and the fact that due to the tragic recent events in CO, audiences are souring on more violent movies.

it appears to be a strategy by the "suits" to put money on a very popular director (PTA) and Oscar Winning actors.  it is a caculated bet, and one that will hopefully pay off come Oscar season.  If you are unfamiliar with the back story of the Master, there is plenty on the internet,.  I will put it briefly that  PTA (Paul Thomas Anderson, director of Magnolia, etc) has been working on this for years, approx 3-4 and from some of the comments both here and other pop culture websites, PTA was fascinated by LRH and wanted to do an expose on American "Religions" .

I, and many other film geeks are looking forward for this since this is PTAs first film since the Award Winning There Will Be Blood (2007).  The trailers look amazzing.  It MIGHT only reach the "art" crowd at first, but if it gets support from the critical community, awards etc, than the masses will hopefully follow

This is the website from Variety.



Paul Thomas Anderson's 'Master' moved to Sept. 14Weinstein Company also pushes back 'Killing Them Softly' to Oct. 19

Paul Thomas Anderson's 'The Master,' originally scheduled for Oct. 12, will now be released Sept. 14.

Andrew Dominik's 'Killing Them Softly,' starring Brad Pitt, has been pushed back to Oct. 19.

The Weinstein Company is shuffling its awards-season deck, moving up Paul Thomas Anderson's Scientology-tinged religious drama "The Master" from Oct. 12 to Sept. 14 and pushing back Andrew Dominik's t  "Killing Them Softly" staring Brad Pit to Oct. 19.


"The Master" figures to be a factor this awards season, with stars Joaquin Phoenix and Philip Seymour Hoffman expected to be major contenders for acting prizes, not to mention writer-director Anderson, who received multiple noms for his last pic, "There Will Be Blood."


torymagoo44 like.author.displayName 1 Like

@torymagoo44  PS: JB:: I know you did TONS more than just driving Hubbard around...so please don't take offense at that. I heard a seminar out at UCLA last year and an author was speaking about how "Anyone can write a book". He really went on about how people LOVE to learn about a specific person's daily life. So that was just *one* of your many examples.

GerryArmstrong like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

          In the above article, TO wrote: Armstrong had been a Sea Org member who had sailed on the Apollo with Hubbard;




          TO wrote: he had later been assigned the job of gathering documents for an authorized biography of Hubbard that a professional writer was being hired to produce.


Not really. I petitioned Hubbard to gather documents for an authorized biography of him, and for other purposes. Hubbard granted my petition, so I was never assigned, not that it matters.

Maybe ten months after Hubbard approved my petition, a professional writer, Omar V. Garrison, was contracted to produce the biography.


          TO wrote: When Armstrong realized that original documents from Hubbard's life contradicted so much of what Hubbard and the church said about him, he spoke up about it and was kicked out of the Sea Org.


Nope. When I realized that original documents from Hubbard's life contradicted so much of what he and his Scientologist underlings said about him, I spoke up about it. In response, his key underlings, who were my immediate overlords, threatened me and brought me to consider escaping; but they did not kick me out of their cult. I accepted that Hubbard and Scientologists were not going to tell the truth and I blew, that is, escaped.


I was not kicked out of the Sea Org; I escaped. It is true that following my escape the Scientologists published a “Suppressive Person Declare” on me, which is their formalized kick-out from their cult. The SP declare is an available action in the Scientologists’ “noisy investigation” operations against people who might tell the truth about Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard.  I had spoken up, been threatened, and escaped, however, before Hubbard, et al. issued their SP Declare, or kicked me out.


Kicking me out after I’ve left is a bit of an impossibility. The Scientologists like to say they kicked me out, perhaps because it makes them feel at cause in the matter, where they obsessively want to be, apparently.


          TO wrote: He took those documents with him,


No. I wrote about this to your blog back in April. I actually submitted my comment twice, and saw it published. It was then deleted, fairly rapidly, let’s say within a minute. I’ve now posted this earlier comment on my own blog for ease of reference.  gerryarmstrong[dot]ca/ga/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ortega-gerry-documents-2012-04-20.pdf


Lawrence Wright got essentially the same thing wrong in his New Yorker piece last year about Paul Haggis. I still haven’t convinced The New Yorker, et al. that it’s in their best interest, as well as everyone else’s, to correct their errors. I sure hope you don’t dig in your heels as hard as Condé Nast’s spikes over such a small piece of ancient history.


There’s no excuse, because the Breckenridge decision is very clear, and was affirmed on appeal. The Scientologists’ whole war on me is brimming with divine irony, but that cannot be my fault.


          TO wrote: and was the subject of years of nasty litigation by the church.


Yes, Scientology litigation is nasty. And on August 2, I will have been the subject of Scientology litigation for 30 years.


          TO wrote: But his documents also formed the basis for books such as those by Miller and Atack.


The “Armstrong documents” certainly helped Miller, Atack, Corydon, and others. I did not, however, take these documents with me when I left the cult. When I needed them, which, history has shown, I did, Omar Garrison gave them to me.


God bless my friend Omar, who had his own moment on his own Damascus Road, or on his own way to murder Mohammed.


torymagoo44 like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @GerryArmstrong Yes, thank you for these corrections. I had always heard that you had copied the originals before you left, and *that* was what Scientology was SO furious about. Interesting that Omar gave them to you. :sigh: Isn't it amazing how once ONE thing is printed incorrectly, you can spend YEARS correcting people on it? I still have that, no matter how many times I've corrected people: I never posted on the Net for OSA: Never. But that's a common misunderstanding people have about me. Glad you corrected those, Gerry!

California like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @GerryArmstrong Thanks for the corrections, Gerry.


But the last paragraph is a bit obtuse to me.  Do you care to elaborate?  I hope life is going well for you and yours.....

GerryArmstrong like.author.displayName 1 Like


The Damascus Road, of course, was where Paul is reported to have had the conversion that ended his persecution of the Christians. Scientologists’ Damascus Road incidents, should they happen, would end their persecution of someone or some group who did not deserve their persecution. Obviously ending the persecution of a class of people that a Scientologist has been persecuting throughout perhaps decades in Scientology is direction-changing, and potentially brain-changing. All Scientologists persecute the Suppressive Person class in one way or another. Since SPs are people who tell the truth about Scientology and Hubbard, the Scientologists persecute the people who would make them free, and persecute themselves.

Omar was named, so he said, after Omar Khayyám. But he also mentioned Omar ibn Al-Khattāb. For that matter he also mentioned Omar Sharif and Sydney Omarr. Well Omar ibn Al-Khattāb, then a big persecutor of Muslims, it is reported, had a major Damascus Road moment in 616 AD on his way to murder Mohammed. And he became Mohammed’s disciple and companion, and a huge expander of the faith. (The Sunni-Shia split, which has an apparent parallel in Scientology in the In-Out, Organized-Disorganized, Dependent-Independent split, is beyond Omar’s conversion and another discussion for another time and someone else.)

Our Omar realized that the Scientologists he had supported for several years were persecuting good people, even writers like himself. He called the Scientologists’ SP Declares, fair game, etc. evil, and he saw that all this persecution and evil was being done in service of a liar, and to keep the liar’s fraud working. When he knew that I was declared, and that the Scientologists had turned their well-heeled malevolence machine on me, he did a conscienceful thing, and gave me the available documents to defend myself against the persecutors.

I was just musing about the Omar. I’ll curb any tendency, in the available time, to cause any feeling of obtuseness in the people who might read me. You know, unless in defense of the persecuted class.


clausvonbulow like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

What's really interesting is the lack of the die-hard, LRH tech is the only answer, steely eyed Scientologist intent on clearing the planet you have working at INT, alongside DM, in the form of John Brousseau. Hell he was a kid who had only done the Comm course then ends up in the SO being a chauffeur for LRH, because he like having young gullible kids to do his bidding and listen to his BS. It's almost like John just got "stuck" in this crazy world and stayed because his other options weren't so great or didn't have any particular goals to begin with - not because he was some brainwashed true believer. I'm sure for many years it was more fun playing cloak and dagger games, running a ranch with no interference but reliable money, hanging out with Tom Cruise...better than the alternative of getting some dead end job. He stayed because he liked having someone giving him direction in life because he didn't have the innate drive to map out his own route. It was more like an extended adolescence - he didn't have to grow up and take the reigns of his own life, just let the SO do it for him. I'm sure had the RPF and prison camp mentality not taken hold he might still be there for lack of a more attractive alternative in life. I wonder how many others are at high levels in the SO are in a similar boat? It's quite a departure from the true believer, die hards most people seem to believe occupy INT. (Hell, Marc Headley was another similar case - just a kid without a lot of options or family support who got swept up into the mad world of the SO and Gold/ INT) How many remain trapped in INT not because "they believe" but because "they fear" what life holds for them outside the razor wire? This may hold true for many in the SO in general. I think back to so many stories from former SO -how many were just kids who had little to no experience with the tech, or who's parents were true believers and they were shipped off to the SO based on the parents belief, not their own? It's scary to think how many are probably trapped in the SO not due to their own choices, but more due to going with the flow, doing as they are told, pleasing others, fear of not knowing what to do in the wog world. Sheep trying to please to the slaughter. Independent thought and goals in life outside the cult are the biggest threats to the INT, not FBI raids. Fear of the unknown is much stronger than the devil you know. I do wonder what John's thinking towards Scientology is like now? We know he went to Marty when he escaped, and he gives token defenses of LRH in the interview, but he's certainly not been an indie cheerleader.

chuckbeatty77 like.author.displayName 1 Like



I think you nailed a lot.    But Prof Kent wrote "From Slogans to Mantras" and that fit a few who got suckered and stayed as long as they did, Jeff Hawkins is a good example.


Lots were "seeker" types, I thought "out of the body" was real, too much acid and Carlos Castaneda books on "flying" and then Ram Dass and Theosophy crap, astral walking, myself, the big leg Scientology stood on in my eyes was their orderly step by step procedures to produce "out of the body" guaranteed.   Other groups selling the same hallucination (didn't know it was at the and didn't want to admit it was all hokey once in).


If people are souls, jammed into their skulls, and Hubbard's pseudo therapy pops one out, and one can fly around like Creation of Human Ability procedure called the Grand Tour, then okay.


It's pretty obvious that this is a scam to most everyone on earth, but I fell into the dupe side on that one.  

chuckbeatty77 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like



Sort of "waiting for my own personal halllucination" that convinces me Hubbard's craziness is real, and playing along because so many other people seem to believe it.  

AndrewRobertson like.author.displayName 1 Like



paragraph  - noun


(in a piece of writing) one of a series of subsections each usually devoted to one idea and each usually marked by the beginning of a new line, indentation, increased interlinear space, etc

SvenBoogie like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

I find it sad how, through the entire piece, he still seems to blame little davey miscarriage for everything, and can't see that the grand midget is just a symptom of the giant scam LRH built. It seems blind, unquestioning LRH worship is something even those who escape from the 'church' itself have an incredibly hard time getting past. 


 @SvenBoogie It seems the main difference is that LRH was a charismatic, creative, power-hungry, crazy cult-creating asshole with major anger management issues, whereas Mister Cabbage Head is just an crazy power-hungry asshole with anger management issues. Minus the charisma and the creativity and whatever wacko occult hypnotic juju Elwrong had going on.I suspect Mister Cabbage Head is also stuck in Elwrong's rabbit hole and can't get out of the mindscrew. He's been in since, what, 12?

ezmereldastella like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @SvenBoogie What's with everyone criticising exiting members?....People joined scientology because they wanted to better themselves and help mankind....They got brainwashed,revealed some stuff that they could be blackmailed with and got trapped....Those in the first 5 -10 years of their exiting are still in recovery and dont see everything as those who have never been in...GO EASY ON THEM!!! They have been brave in ways many will never have to be...

chuckbeatty77 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like



There are so many illegitimate aspects ot Hubbard's Scientology, that us exiting members, don't necessarily realize all that is wrong with it, all at once.


There will naturally be this hodge-podge gradient of willingness to say what of the whole mess is immoral and a scam, or whatever.  


There are multiple "legs" that the Hubbard movement stands on, and not every leg gets knocked out in a person's mind as they discuss and notice what's wrong.



FistOfXenu like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@chuckbeatty77@SvenBoogie This is why I feel as though from time to time it's good to repost something I've started calling the Bridge to Freedom from $cientoology. I took it from Arnie Lerma's site (http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html) and cleaned up a bit because there's more than one version there. He got it from someplace else, I think. Here it is: 


1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then why is (______) going on? [ insert whatever atrocity you have witnessed ]


2) The guys at the top must be crazy


3) Miscavige and crew are evil demons from another dimension 

[ or something similar ]


4) Hubbard went crazy at the end .....


5) Hubbard went crazy in 1966


6) Hubbard was mad from the start.


7) This whole thing is a complete fraud


8) my god, it's a criminal organization... with criminal convictions all over the world... and it was only about money


9) realization that THERE ARE NO OT's THERE!


10) realizing, after leaving Scientology, this makes one an ex-nazi and wanting to do something about it



At some point this could be worth a discussion of its own. It could fit nicely with what's turning out to be a realization that the morality of being an ex-member can be complicated.  Meantime, it's good to remember, this is what people deal with when they leave the cult and after, and they go at different speeds. They get bogged down and sometimes they don't finish the journey. 


An off-topic question : I can see that some people make their profiles anonymous. How can I do it?


 @MariannaP. Log out of Livefyre. Log on as Anonymous. You can use whatever account name you want with an Anonymous account (like I'm doing). I don't want OSAtrolls to find me.


 @MariannaP. just create a twitter account with a safe/new email account and you can log in via twitter here



I don't use twitter, don't like it...



I was just wondering, cause I see that some people do it....how? Can't get it. Livefyre is definitely not for me, lol...

AndrewRobertson like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @MariannaP.  If you want to post anonymously, clean out the cookies in your browser and don't log on again to whatever account you previously used.


Then look at the options, create a new identity, for example, 'Fred Jones, dairy farmer, Wanganui, New Zealand' and there you are! 


18,996 km from Paris, gumboot clad and up at 5 am to milk the cows.  How more anonymous could you be!




DodoTheLaser like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @MariannaP. Comment without logging into your Livefyre account.



Uh? I log in with my FB account, which do I chose then? I create a VV account?


 @MariannaP. Anonymous is at the very, very bottom. You have to look for it. Make sure you log out of Livefyre FIRST. There's a link you can click on. It's an extra step, but then you're in with your anon account til you log out (as whatever name you want).


@MariannaP. You don't have to "use" twitter at all. It's takes about a minute to set up your account. If you don't follow anyone or post it's pretty much redundant for you but it does allow you to post in numerous forums right off the bat. As long as you remember your twitter name and password you'll never have to use or see a tweet ever.


When I want to post something there is a choice between FB, Twitter, Google, VV accounts..hmmm...which one is anonymous?

DodoTheLaser like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Sign off of FB and everything else. Then post comments anonymously.


POWER like.author.displayName 1 Like

I appreciate all the truth and honesty in this article but don't understand how all the red-flag on David Miscavige was so ignored by those who were so close to him, ie: JB?   Why would anyone allow this monster to get to power?  JB, I am very glad you freed yourself, but for God sake why flew so much power to this ass hole and let him get away with all the out-points when you saw them even while LRH was alive?????????


 @POWER As someone who has endured bad bosses...I understand. There's a lot people endure for job security. Or a cause. Or a cause plus job security (doubleplusgood).  And if everyone around you is conditioned to accept it, and you're young, and you don't know anything else...It certainly was a red flag that the older people who visited their kid raised an alarm. The young adults, green to the working world, didn't know better. Exploitable.  That's just my take on it.

NorwoodPartz like.author.displayName 1 Like

@POWER You mean flow power as in Hubbard's PINK LEGS HCOPL? Scientology was nuts long before Miscavige came along. The people around Hubbard were yes men. They has been subjected to Hubbard's brainwashing tech. *Then* Miscavige came along. Connect the dots dude.

MariannaP. like.author.displayName 1 Like


Well, there was nobody to let him, he took it himself. At the end of hubbard's life  the cult and hubbard's positions were weakened by several lawsuits and investigations, he was distanced from the cult's affairs partly to protect himself partly because he was losing the control over it. At that time there were several challengers inside the cult as well as defectors who wanted to start a "new" church of scientology. miscavige was apparently the most intelligent one and he destroyed (the word is well chosen) all his opponents one by one and took it all.


 @MariannaP. Maybe not the most intelligent of the Hubbardian successors, was Miscarriage, but definitely the most ruthless and cloak-and-daggery. He definitely learned well from his master. The apple didn't fall far from the tree there. Bad fruit from a bad tree...

PoisonIvy like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @MariannaP. Note to Tony and those here who were on the inside - I'd be fascinated to read a blow-by-blow account of exactly how Miscaviage seized total power.


 @ClamOnAHalfshell Of course they are.  And anybody's eligible for R2-45 "auditing".  Sorry, I was indulging in rhetorical questions there.  My point was that there are stories to be told behind DM's coup-d'etat, and we won't hear them until the people who know the answers tell us. 


 @FistOfXenu Anyone's declarable, anyone's Fair Game. Quentin Hubbard was unceremoniously dumped out of an airplane with no funeral, 'disposed of quietly and without sorrow.' L. Ron Hubbard Jr. was Fair Gamed. That's how the game is played in Scientology land. Only the ruthless survive.

FistOfXenu like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @PoisonIvy  @MariannaP. So would we all. There are unanswered questions about certain parts of it. How you answer those questions partly depends on how cynical you feel. Inclined to think there isn't anything DM wouldn't do? Then maybe you wonder if LRH really committed suicide. Inclined to think the old man really was at cause over everything? Then probably you accept that he "dropped his MEST body because it wasn't useful anymore". 


And it goes on and on. How come the Broekers were named successors but ended up as SPs? LRH named Dave Mayo to be in charge of Tech until LRH reincarnated, so why was Mayo declared and made the big bad squirrel? A lot of the steps in that blow by blow account are unclear or controversial. 


My hope is as more people leave we'll get more of the pieces to the puzzle until we can put it all together. 

MariannaP. like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @POWER It's like politics, you see...the fight over the power. There's nothing democratic or innocent about it.

KareNotMyFault like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @POWER  Hubbard was old and for all practical purposes confined.  Broeker was basically trapped also, as he was stuck with Hubbard.  JB was somewhat passive. He as much as admits it from the beginning of this story. At least he wasn't ambitious.  Miscavige had mobility.  looks like he made a deal with Broeker, to act as Hubbard's proxy or get the LRH seal, then cut him out once his command structure was solid.   It was always a finite business. It is a matter of money and law and buying people.  The win goes to whoever hustles and has a plan.

I'd guess Miscavige initially exhibited a lot of loyalty  to get into Hubbards top ten sycophants


All my opinions are guesswork btw based on my view of typical human nature when humongous amounts of cash are in the balance.

NorwoodPartz like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@KareNotMyFault @POWER Hubbard was not that old, and he was *not* confined. Hubbard chose to isolate himself. He was a coward and afraid of being held accountable for his actions and orders. Miscavige is more On-Source that you think. Source was a sadistic nut too.


 @NorwoodPartz   Source was not that old, but Source was in poor health, and nutty as a fruitcake. He was afraid of the US government holding him accountable for his actions. That's why he first fled to England, then to sea. At sea he could be subject to no government, which is what he wanted. A little empire for himself, accountable to no one.




What would you have recommended, had you been in the same situation? 


Would you have executed Miscavige's henchmen?

POWER like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Jean   if I would be in a situation like this where I saw all the out points, most likely I would have removed myself from the situation or made all these weird meetings between Pat and David known to LRH somehow.  Not blaming anyone.   We should all be aware of all those red-flags in our life when we see them.  I guess, it is just live and learn, Right?  

wwwRESEARCHcom like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @POWER I would start my research with,  Scientology sea org, fair game. That should get you started.

Once you start to see how they operate, then it will help you more when you come back here. I have been lurking around here for a couple of weeks now and I must say, I am learning more all of the time! 

MariannaP. like.author.displayName 1 Like


No. That entire cult and all that people were a HUGE RED FLAG. 

melonslice like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @POWER  @Jean Power, you obviously don't know much about this dangerous cult or David Miscavige.  I would recommend researching the subject further if it interests you.  Reading through the Village Voice archives is a great place to start!

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