Court Testimony: Narconon Intentionally Deceived a Florida Drug Court About Its Licensing

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There's been a lot of attention focused on Scientology's flagship drug rehab in Oklahoma -- called Narconon Arrowhead -- because of recent deaths there and investigations by multiple local and state agencies.

But as we indicated previously, there are also serious questions being asked about Narconon's facility in the Atlanta area. The 2008 death of Narconon patient and employee Patrick Desmond produced a lawsuit by his family, and documents in that case provide a startling look at the deceptions that appear to be a part of the Narconon business model.

We now have court testimony from the lawsuit which shows that Narconon deceived a Florida drug court in order to keep quiet that it didn't have licensing to house patients.

The Florida drug court, meanwhile, tells the Voice that it now knows it was lied to. And it isn't happy about it.

Patrick Desmond was sent by his family to the Atlanta drug rehab center after being sentenced for six months by the Brevard County, Florida drug court. Desmond's sentence required that he be sent to an in-patient facility, somewhere he would be housed and closely monitored as he fought his addictions.

What the Desmonds and the Brevard County court didn't know was that Narconon in Georgia has never been licensed to run that kind of facility. By state law, it can't house anyone, or provide around-the-clock monitoring. Its licensing is strictly for an out-patient facility.

It's in-patient rehab centers, however, that really bring in the big money. Narconon centers that house clients typically charge about $30,000 for a three-month program.

In Atlanta, however, Narconon's executive director Mary Rieser had tried and failed to get the kind of licensing that would allow her to house patients at the rehab facility.

So instead, court records show, she asked a Scientologist couple to lease a set of apartments at a nearby complex called One Sovereign Place, and then began placing four Narconon patients in each apartment there. Prospective clients, like the Desmonds, were not told that Rieser had no license to be running an in-patient facility -- but they were charged like they were sending their loved ones to a legitimate in-patient rehab.

What's worse, investigations by Narconon Georgia's parent company, Narconon International, found that drug use was rampant at One Sovereign Place, with employees (who tended to be former patients) joining in. Desmond, court records suggest, was using Oxycontin at the apartment complex, and one night went out with a friend, tried heroin, overdosed, and died. The Desmond family, in their lawsuit, wants to tell a jury that Narconon was negligent by allowing their son to be so unsupervised at the unlicensed housing complex.

We wondered, however: how has Narconon Georgia convinced drug courts to send patients to a supposedly in-patient facility, while not arousing the interest of Georgia state officials, who consider it an out-patient rehab?

We got an answer to that question in the deposition of a former Narconon Georgia employee, Allison Riepe, which was made public this week.

Like other Narconon employees, Riepe was a former patient and a recovering addict herself. She had numerous jobs at the center, but at the time Desmond was there in 2007 and 2008, she was a legal liaison who handled all the communication with drug courts.

During her deposition, which was taken January 26, she was shown letterhead that was used for official Narconon Georgia correspondence. On it, the facility was described as an "Out-Patient Drug Treatment Program and Education."

But then she was shown another letter, this one sent to Desmond's probation officer at the Brevard County, Florida drug court, which had something different on its letterhead. The word "out-patient" had been removed, and Narconon was now described as "Drug Education and Rehabilitation."

Riepe was asked about the change.

"I took it to Mary and I said, obviously I can't send this, it says 'out-patient drug rehab' and that's not going to work because this person is court ordered to be in an in-patient facility, so what am I suppose to do with it? And she said take the 'out-patient' out."

"OK, So you knew that Patrick was sentenced to an in-patient facility?" asked attorney Rebecca Franklin.

"Yes," Riepe answered.

"Did Mary Rieser know that?"

"Yes."

Franklin then shows Riepe another letter with the word "out-patient" removed from its description of the facility.

"Because, again, Patrick was sentenced to in-patient. So if it says 'out-patient' on it and his probation officer is paying attention and reads it, then he's probably going to get yanked out of being there, have to go some place else."

"And, again, was that at the direction of Mary Rieser?"

"Yes."

We called Narconon Georgia and asked to speak with Mary Rieser. We were told she was busy, and we left our information. She didn't call us back.

Rieser herself was asked about the changing letterhead at a deposition held several months earlier, on September 14, 2011 by attorney Jeff Harris. In that deposition, Rieser told Harris that her choice of letterhead was random, and the differences were simply a matter of using differing templates...

Q: Nobody took the word "out-patient" off of the letterhead that left some concern that if Narconon held itself out as an out-patient rehab facility that the drug court down there just wouldn't approve of Patrick being enrolled?

A: No.

Q: It didn't happen?

A: No.

Q: So the decision about the letterhead that was used was just happenstance?

A: Yes.

Yesterday, I talked to Lisa Mooty at Brevard County's drug court, who oversaw Desmond's case.

She says his death has already produced a result there: Brevard County no longer allows families to send sentenced defendants to rehab centers out of Florida.

Most go to a local facility run by the state, she says. And now, Brevard County is well aware of Narconon.

"We have never sent anyone to one since, nor do we intend to," she says.

"It's a very sad situation all the way around. My heart goes out to the family. You try your best, what you think is in the best interest of your son or daughter, or in my position a client. But unfortunately there are some things we don't know," she says. "If we all knew when we were going to be lied to, wouldn't that be nice?"

After Desmond died, his body was brought back to Florida. "I attended the funeral," Mooty says.

I asked her how she felt about being deceived by Narconon.

"It's shameful on their part," she says.

I asked her if she was aware that Narconon has facilities in Florida -- was it possible that drug courts there could send patients to those rehab centers?

"Well, they're not getting this drug court," she answered. "I can promise you that."

As for Georgia's licensing authorities, the state recently went through a reshuffling of its human resources department, and it's taken me a while to track down the particular body that oversees the Narconon facility. But I have identified them now, and I put in a call yesterday, leaving a detailed message about the Desmond case and Narconon Georgia's licensing. I'll let you know how they respond.

Reproduced below: The relevant pages from Allison Riepe's deposition, explaining that Narconon's letterhead was changed to keep Florida's drug court from realizing that the rehab facility was licensed only for out-patient care...


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The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology -- 2012 Edition

Last summer, we put together a little list that took on a life of its own. We counted down the 25 people and groups who had been doing the most to get word out to the wider world about the Church of Scientology's many alleged abuses, and who have contributed to its steep recent decline. A year later, we thought it was time to update our list. This time, we've put a premium on what's happened in the last twelve months, so you might see some of your old favorites drop off the roster. But never fear -- you can always revisit our choices from last year, or the choices of our readers.


#13: Karen de la Carriere

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Karen de la Carriere is a nightmare for the Church of Scientology in several ways. She symbolizes almost perfectly what is tearing apart the church today -- longtime, loyal members who are being driven away because they dare to question what is happening under the leadership of David Miscavige. In Karen's case, she was a veteran church member who had trained under L. Ron Hubbard himself on the yacht Apollo to the highest levels of expertise, but she dared to question the treatment of her ex-husband, Heber Jentzsch, the president of the Church of Scientology. Since about 2004, Jentzsch has been held in Scientology's concentration camp for executives in California, "The Hole," and de la Carriere complained in 2010 that her son, Alexander, had grown up as a son without a father. For speaking out, Karen was excommunicated by the church -- "declared a suppressive person" -- and then Alexander was forced to "disconnect" from her per church policy. So when Alexander, 26, then lost his job and reportedly turned to drugs, he was cut off from both of his parents. On July 3, he was found dead in a Los Angeles home, and it was two days before Karen learned about it -- but Scientology kept her from seeing his body before it was cremated. Since then, de la Carriere has taken to the airwaves to tell her story, and she is an effective communicator. She had the hosts at KFI radio -- one of the largest stations in the world -- gasping in horror at her descriptions of the way Scientology rips apart families. Karen also put out an open letter to church members, and we have seen evidence that it reached deep into the secretive organization and is having a strong effect. And something tells us Karen is only getting warmed up.


#12: Debbie Cook

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Debbie Cook is enjoying a relaxing new life on the Caribbean island of Guadeloupe, but the effects of her brief legal battle with Scientology are still reverberating through the organization. For 17 years, Cook had been one of the most visible of Scientology's executives, running the church's spiritual mecca in Clearwater, Florida -- the Flag Land Base -- but she left that post in 2007 after, it turns out, enduring horrible treatment by Miscavige. On New Year's Eve, she sent out a stunning denunciation of Miscavige's leadership that shocked the rank and file of Scientology's membership. The church sued her over it, but that lawsuit backfired when Cook testified under oath on February 5 in a Texas courtroom about what she'd experienced at Scientology's hellish California concentration camp, "The Hole." Scientology's attorneys quickly put up the white flag, and then later settled with Cook. Publicly, the church claimed that it didn't give Cook a dime, but now she's living comfortably on a Caribbean island -- you do the math. Cook may now be keeping quiet about the church, but her court testimony and her New Year's Eve letter will go down as landmarks of dissent in a year of crisis for the church.

See also: 25. Xenu, 24. Kate Bornstein, 23. Lisa Marie Presley, 22. Dani and Tami Lemberger, 21. John Brousseau, 20. Jamie DeWolf, 19. Jefferson Hawkins, 18. Amy Scobee, 17. Marc and Claire Headley, 16. Dave Touretzky, 15, Mark Bunker, 14. Tory Christman

Look for the next installment of our Top 25 on Friday. We have things timed so that we'll reveal this year's number one just a few days before the opening of "The Master," Paul Thomas Anderson's new film that should explode interest in all things Scientology.


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Narconon's Gary Smith Speaks Out. Badly.

It's desperation time:

Scientology "support"?

Get this, Gary. Those local reporters in Oklahoma you're talking to weren't born yesterday. They know that decades of information about Narconon's history are online, and some of them may even be reading our stories here, where we've established...

--- that Narconon was originally a program of the notorious Guardian's Office, the Scientology secret service that was busted by the FBI for infiltrating the federal government in the 1970s.

-- that Narconon's "treatment" of drug addicts is virtually identical to the training programs that beginning Scientologists go through. So instead of getting drug counseling, patients are talking to ashtrays and engaging in staring contests and other L. Ron Hubbard nonsense.

-- Narconon is controlled by the Association for Better Living and Education, Scientology's "social betterment" non-profit that is staffed only by Sea Org officials, and whose president, Rena Weinberg, has been imprisoned in Scientology's California concentration camp for executives since at least 2007.

-- Narconon's recruitment is designed to be deceptive, with hundreds of generic websites that exist in order to lead distraught parents and other loved ones to salesmen who get big commissions for directing them to Narconon, and will say virtually anything to get them there. What prospective patients and their families are never told is that they will get Scientology training rather than drug education.

-- Narconon facilities contract with a local physician who examines each new patient during their intake, but then are typically never at the facility and are not on hand when emergencies occur. In Georgia, the so-called medical director had never, in her years long contract, set foot one time at the Narconon facility itself.

You can try to spin away these facts, Gary, but reporters, and government officials, are getting wise. And if there's one thing Scientology always has a hard time with, it's sunlight.


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David Letterman Quizzes Amy Adams About Scientology

And so it begins...

And for those who actually buy what Amy says about the film not being based on Scientology, please see our previous coverage.



See also:
"Tom Cruise worships David Miscavige like a god"
Scientology's president and the death of his son: our complete coverage
What Katie is saving Suri from: Scientology interrogation of kids
Scientology's new defections: Hubbard's granddaughter and Miscavige's dad
Scientology's disgrace: our open letter to Tom Cruise
Scientology crumbling: An entire mission defects as a group
Scientology leader David Miscavige's vanished wife: Where's Shelly?
Neil Gaiman, 7, Interviewed About Scientology by the BBC in 1968
The Master Screenplay: Scientology History from Several Different Eras
And a post that pulls together the best of our Scientology reporting

Please check out our Facebook author page for updates and schedules.


**********
Tony Ortega has been the editor in chief of the Village Voice since March, 2007. He started writing about Scientology in 1995. You can reach him by e-mail at tortega@villagevoice.com, and if you ask nicely he'll put you on his mailing list for notifications of new stories. You can also catch his alerts at Twitter (@VoiceTonyO), at his Facebook author page, on Pinterest, a Tumblr, and even this new Google Plus doohickey.

New readers might want to check out our primer, "What is Scientology?" Another good overview is our series from last summer, "Top 25 People Crippling Scientology." At the top of every story, you'll see the "Scientology" category which, if you click on it, will bring up all of our most recent stories.

As for hot subjects we've covered here, you may have heard about Debbie Cook, the former church official who rebelled and was sued by Scientology. You might have also heard about the Super Power Building, Scientology's "Mecca," whose secrets were revealed here. We also reported how Scientology spied on its own most precious object, Tom Cruise. (We wrote Tom an open letter that he has yet to respond to.) Have you seen a Scientology ad on TV lately? We debunked some of the claims in that 2-minute commercial you might have seen while watching Glee or American Idol.

Other stories have looked at Scientology's policy of "disconnection" that is tearing families apart. You may also have heard something about the Sea Org experiences of the Paris sisters, Valeska and Melissa, and their friend Ramana Dienes-Browning. We've also featured Paulette Cooper, who wrote about Scientology back in the day, and Janet Reitman, Hugh Urban, and the team at the Tampa Bay Times, who write about it today. And there's plenty more coming.


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328 comments
Stereolab
Stereolab

I'm really hoping one day soon, someone associated with the movie will have the guts to say, "of course it's about Scientology."  To play coy and pretend otherwise is kind've silly imo. 

media_lush
media_lush

Aye Caramba.... just finished watching all the crazy at the #MittRomney #RNC  (a few of my tweets http://t.co/OlrBEdmN )

 

.... which got to me thinking are there politicians who openly admit they're scientologists?

 

.... there was one telling soundbite Romney said was he really supported freedom of religion (with quite an evil smile)

 

[yes, I admit - this is a lame attempt to create a new sub-topic]

BurytheNuts
BurytheNuts

Ya know............I am just glad Courtney Love went away.

If a slow Tony O week is what it takes.

I am down with that.

 

Jgg2012
Jgg2012

  Thursday's Stats:  I think this has been a slight downstat week for the Church.  When your best story is Tony taking 3 days off from writing a story, you are not exactly upstat.  The Florida Narconon story will lead to stories in other states, and ultimately the closing of Narconon.

ziontologist
ziontologist

The women of Scientology are very dignified. Until you look in their eyes, then they look like they've passed away.

Thank God you've got a blog like this!

Amy Adams is awesome, and she's done more for the word "Scientologist" than the Vagina Monologues did for the word "Vagina". I'm talking about how easily "Scientologist" rolls off her tongue.

This is the dawning of a new age, my friends.

 

TheHoleDoesNotExist
TheHoleDoesNotExist

I agree that the Narconon Georgia Patrick Desmond case should be utilized by any investigator and legal or government official as a blueprint of the scientology spider web of maneuvering, hunting and bagging their prey.   I've only a few pieces now of the depositions.  It would be so much easier to digest the many courses of treachery and deceit scientology's business model offers up routinely  if it was presented in a youtube video.  Plenty of out of work actors, scriptwriters, videographers  could whip up basic scenes and scientology's operating schemes are a feast of mind boggling intrigue and general blowing of the mind.  You really need something that is searchable and rewindable.   There are just far too many twists and WTF turns for the average person to understand the means and methods employed.  

 

In fact,  I read the astonishing deposition of Dr. Lisa Robbins,  Medical Director of this Narconon who alleges she didn't Know she was the Dir, and that's not all she didn't know.   Thought that name sounded familiar, and turns out she is That Dr. Lisa Robbins,  a guest TV show doctor, including on Monique's show when it was still running and yes,  Monique partook of Dr Robbin's services, which include the usual menu of detox,  meridians, and all kinds of magical healings.  I wonder if Monique read the depostions as well?   

 

http://www.bet.com/searchresults.html?q=Dr.%20Lisa%20Robbins

 

sugarplumfairy32
sugarplumfairy32

If I were debbie cook and had taken money out of co$' hot little hands, I certainly would not have chosen a Caribbean island to retreat to.. Surely there must be at least dozens of scientologists who were blackbeard in their past lives??

PreferToBeAnon
PreferToBeAnon

It's official. I lost my virginity: I received my first censor by Marty--which, by the way, was a polite response based on facts not 'troll-ese.'  Over the last few weeks I have come to realize what an LRH zealot he is.  Although I have no way of knowing if he really believes it or is using it as leverage, the bottom line for me is this: he is dangerous.  And obnoxious.

He is gaining a foothold that does not feel like "love and light."  I wonder if his followers realize how much he censors. And, I can't quite figure out why they are so quick to forgive his past transgressions -- even when he hasn't asked for forgiveness.  I know he is a weigh-station providing community for upset and confused folks, but...  Perhaps it is transference: folks need to cling to something.  It's just that I feel a rabid momentum building, and it isn't flower petals and snowflakes.  Emotionally based zealots without critical thinking scare me.

I would submit that there is a point to be made that it IS his blog and he can regulate what appears on it.  However, it is more than  a blog--it is a meeting place and first 'safeground' for those escaping.  If he really cares about TRUTH and is completely benign, he would let ALL of the light in and shine it on ALL of the warts--not just MissCabbage. He won't look at it and he is not letting others look at it either.

As an aside, does anyone know what his beef is with the FreeZoners?

wannabeclear
wannabeclear

So, I Googled Gary Smith to see what came up.  And I immediately found this: http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/legal/aff_gary_smith_020716.html -- an affidavit from him for the Lisa McPherson case.  Besides the fact that his name came up in connection to that case at all, here's the most interesting part of his statement:

 

"The Narconon Arrowhead property and facilities were funded entirely by Scientologists and a significant portion of those donations came from parishioners of Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization."

DodoTheLaser
DodoTheLaser

Marty posted this: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/fearsome-scientologists/

 

I replied:

 

"One real Clear (not even OT, although it would be even better) would make Scientologists perceived in a public eye as a lot less fearsome and a lot more friendly, and actually desirable. Well, it didn’t happen yet. 60 years +. Or did it?

The problem is – there no Clears (or OT’s), as defined by LRH. None that I observed. The vast majority of Scientologists are really well-intentioned people. Also, well indoctrinated and deeply immersed (word-clearing, auditing, false data stripping in everything LRH). Add time, money and trust invested. Even when scared and confused and brainwashed into committing abuses on their fellows, by both DM and LRH.

Corporate, Independent, Freezone or otherwise.

I am sorry, if it’s a bit depressing. I am an ex. Try to be one. You can always go back to be a theta believer, I guess.

Also, there is life to live, to learn and enjoy. Independently in true sense. Love"

 

Just how I feel.

 

 

PoisonIvy
PoisonIvy

 @media_lush Don't forget, he originally named "Battlefield Earth" as his favorite novel!  

Sherbet
Sherbet

 @California Pardon me for being obtuse -- I admire and applaud David Love, and I'll be glad when nn finally shuts all its doors, but I don't see exactly what the wiki-leaked emails are suggesting that is illegal or ominous.  I see sneakiness, but that's about it.  What did I miss?

BurytheNuts
BurytheNuts

 @sugarplumfairy32 I sure don't know anything about Debbie Cook, but I do believe if she was serious about exposing DM as Satan, that she couldn't choose much better than French Guadalupe.

Especially if she has an agreement to never speak about Co$ again in return for her new found riches. 

Once she finally finds a decent internet service, I bet we haven't heard the last of her. 

Especially after she starts to get bored in paradise....which ought to be by about January or so.....(just a guess based on the geographical size of paradise).

But here nor there, I would imagine that particular island was picked with the help of her lawyers due to French laws :)

Just my opinion, but harnessing her in the long run may be a bit harder than Co$ lawyers think.

She may have already wiped her ass with her gag agreement.

Jgg2012
Jgg2012

  I think Marty and Davey are in fierce competition to be LRH's biggest advocate.  Marty thinks that Davey squirreled the tech, and vice versa.  Both think that they are more loyal to his principles.   It's like Sunnis and Shiites fighting over who is closer to Mohamed.  Marty is not a secular free thinker.

 

  It is interesting that when Debbie Cook or Marty criticizes Miscavige for violating LRH principles, they are violating the rule against criticizing a fellow scientologist, but when he condemns them, it is not a violation of that rule.  Look up "hypocrisy" in the dictionary; read each definition; use each one in a sentence; make a clay model...

SvenBoogie
SvenBoogie

 @PreferToBeAnon Do the world a favor then and for the love of xenu, PLEASE stop visiting his execrable blog and giving him the attention and site traffic he so desperately craves. 

Jgg2012
Jgg2012

 His beef with the freezoners is that they squirreled the tech and took credit for improvements which he was supposed to get credit for.

 

  Marty is fully indoctrinated into LRH: 20 years of hearing "LRH is great" does that.

dbloch7986
dbloch7986

 @PreferToBeAnon You're talking about a group of cult members who broke off to form their own. It is just a splinter group.

Marty is forgiven because in the eyes of a Scientologist he was following directions from someone who claimed to have been following Hubbard's policies. Now they suddenly found out (if this sounds reminiscent of the "Basics" and "Golden Age of Tech", its because it is) that the policy that this senior person ordering Marty around was not using standard policy as he claimed to be.

 

Therefore Marty is just a victim of someone who tricked him into thinking that he was doing what Hubbard wanted. He didn't do anything wrong, it is the SP's fault.

 

Sound familiar? That's because it is familiar.

 

The same thing occurs in the church.

 

They are "Independent Scientologists" not "Ex-Scientologists". There is a difference between someone who has renounced the beliefs and someone who is simply adapting them.

 

I give Marty and the other Independents a lot of credit because they have a much more evolved view of what Hubbard was teaching. It seems like they will avoid those who are troubling them with "entheta" but not enforce disconnection on their friends and family. Similar to the Old Testament and the New Testament; fire and brimstone to tolerance and forgiveness through Christ.

 

I also am going to defend his "censorship" because I am sure he and everyone else gets tired of people spouting the same old facts over and over. They probably have heard everything in the book. I am sure they don't want to listen to it.

 

So in his defense, his blog serves as a meeting place for people who follow Hubbard's teachings but refrain from involvement in the official church. It is not a censor free discussion column for people to argue about whether Scientology is right or not. Similarly you wouldn't be allowed to walk into a Catholic church preaching butt sex and atheism.

DeckardCain
DeckardCain

 @PreferToBeAnon I stopped trying to post there because it was just to hard to be sticky-sweet nice to him as a tactic to getting my replies posted.  It just made me ill to do that.

 

I did read a very good thread on ESMB about how difficult it is dealing with the shame that comes from waking up:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28411-After-Scientology-Getting-Over-the-Shame-and-the-Guilt

 

The overwhelming emotion of shame and guilt keeps Marty with his head in the sand.  I very much doubt that he will ever wake up because he's so busy fighting off these feelings of shame and guilt.  

SeaCricket
SeaCricket

 @PreferToBeAnon P.S.  Calliwog keeps a running list on his blog of comments that have been censored by Marty, if you care to contribute.

SeaCricket
SeaCricket

 @PreferToBeAnon The aura over there is exactly why it's a good stopping point for some who are processing out of CO$.  I think Marty is trying to create a place that feels safe for those folks, and to protect them from OSA types and other harassment when they are in a fragile state of mind.  In other words, the blog is not for us.  We wogs can watch, we can participate to a point, but we are not the audience or intended beneficiaries of that community.

 

Now, whether this is a good thing, I don't know.  I too get the sense it is not "flower petals and snowflakes."  On the one hand, this is a dangerous, vindictive cult and I'm willing to allow that a harder edge may be necessary until things cool down or break apart with CO$.  On the other hand, this is a dangerous, vindictive cult and in the process of fighting fire with fire you can become the thing you hate.  It's a slippery slope.  In my mind, this means there will be good effects and bad.  Meanwhile I'm on the sidelines keeping a tally and reserving judgment.  For now.

 

One of my favorite sayings:  Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you do judge them, you are a mile away.  And you have their shoes. 

 

Sherbet
Sherbet

Hmm...I hear ya.  I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt, partly because the media have sought him out for statements about scn, so I want to play nice.  However, the times I've read his website I'm left with an unsettling feeling.  All the self-congratulatory back-slapping, scn-speak, and us-against-them superiority sound exactly like cos, except it supposedly isn't.  It's scn minus the church, and that doesn't go far enough for many of us out here.  I understand the tech works on some level, because a seeker, maybe an unhappy person, tries auditing, and, Huzzah!, they feel better dumping some uncomfortable feelings or secrets.  It's also called therapy, and the dreaded psychs can provide the same thing, only without the huge price tag in terms of money and emotional stability and OT carrots on a stick held just slightly out of reach.

AussieCase
AussieCase

 @DodoTheLaser The xenu story is amusing, but I see four real things: 1) scientology robs people of their money, and forces them into debt, 2) indentured servitude, and 3) ridiculous unproven claims--clear falls in this category, and 4) scientologists just act fucking crazy--in scilon lingo their behaviour "out reality" for most.

SeaCricket
SeaCricket

 @TheProprietor  Maybe you can talk to the IT people about the boob ads in general.  Soo many!  Glad Ms. Love is gone but how about the high school girls, the topless New Yorker, the other topless New Yorker, the Raelian topless march, the baby who deduces that crying gets hir boobs, etc.  I mean, I love boobs for sure . . . but EVERY DAY with the tittay pop ups?  If it's got to be that way, then how about equal time for nekkid dudes.  Cute butts, washboard abs, exciting moments in speedo history . . .  Just a thought.

sugarplumfairy32
sugarplumfairy32

@TheProprietor thank you.. it was a very sad pic to see..

Capt._Howdy
Capt._Howdy

 @SvenBoogie  You're right of course, but it's a guilty pleasure to read the comments and revel in the insanity. I was just reading the "Imagine What Thoughts Could Do To Us" article and one of Marty's Martians bizarrely describes James Randi as a "quack" !

 

The greatest debunker of quackery in history, but in their bizarro world the man is somehow a "quack". Good riddance to all bad rubbish magical thinking.

dbloch7986
dbloch7986

 @Jgg2012 So very true. When you sacrifice your entire life for something, it is difficult if not damn impossible to renounce it. He has sacrificed a lot in the name of Scientology.

PreferToBeAnon
PreferToBeAnon

 @dbloch7986 I agree with some of what you said except for "They have heard everything in the book."  I don't think folks who have just left have indeed heard everything--particularly from a fellow Scientologist. They have been self-censoring to avoid entheta for quite some time. Of course, people get frustrated when they see him blocking the truth when in fact he could be leading the way out.

Yes, this Marty discussion is getting old. But it does help to clarify and to confirm that he is someone to watch as he gains momentum.  If folks had only watched LRH that closely!

PreferToBeAnon
PreferToBeAnon

 @FLUNK One was in response to the assertion that abuse really only happened during MissCabbage's reign (uh, not so much), and the other challenged the assertion that Scientology's reputation only went downhill after MissCabbage took over (maybe in a parallel universe). I did politely point out specifics where this was not the case and that there were always issues right from the start--from overboarding to Snow White to shore stories, etc.

AussieCase
AussieCase

 @DeckardCain  @PreferToBeAnon I replied to that, I'm not used to that site yet.

 

I guess my account is still moderated, I can't even find my posts, I guess I have to wait for activation. I think I have posted about 4 or 5 things there now.

SvenBoogie
SvenBoogie

 @SeaCricket  @PreferToBeAnon I'm sorry but I can't agree with you here. It's only a good 'stopping point' in the sense that Rathbun attempts to 'stop' people from fully examining the utter nonsense that is LRH's babble, and instead preaches the wisdom of LRH. He funnels what could have been an actual realization about the nature of the cult into blaming it all on DM and continuing to embrace the complete junk 'tech' rather than seeking real, proven methods of therapy. He then censors anyone whatsoever with a differing opinion on his site and encourages the same groupthink bubble the cult depends on. Of course, it just so happens he'll be happy to sell you some auditing, or his book, or anything else he can as well. 

 

Yes, Rathbun has made statements against the official cult. That should not buy him some sort of fawning, infinite free pass for his actions, past or present. 

PreferToBeAnon
PreferToBeAnon

 @Sherbet The other unsettling thing is that when a comment that gets through that does not do an all-hail-LRH salutation, he cuts the poster off with a quip (not discourse), and then all of the other bots post their support of him.  It's as if they are all waiting to see what he has to say.  It just seems like he is subtlety training them by negative reinforcement.

dbloch7986
dbloch7986

 @sugarplumfairy32  @dbloch7986 On the contrary, that's a wonderful compliment. Thanks so much. I try to be tolerant but sometimes I forget to put myself in the other person's shoes.

sugarplumfairy32
sugarplumfairy32

@dbloch7986 You never cease to impress me.. I've read your back story here, and i'm amazed at how tolerant, insightful and articulate you turned out to be.. hope that doesn't come off as insulting or condescending, cause it sure isn't meant to..

Jgg2012
Jgg2012

btw, that is why pyramid scemes ask you to invest $5,000 or more up front.  Once you do that, it's hard to believe that the company is a scam.

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