Scientology President's Son Died of Prescribed Methadone While Sick With Pneumonia

Karen de la Carriere with Alexander Jentzsch at his wedding to Andrea Evans
I talked earlier today to Ed Winter, assistant chief coroner of Los Angeles County, who tells me that he's ruling Alexander Jentzsch's death an accident.

The 27-year-old son of Scientology president Heber Jentzsch was found dead on the morning of July 3 at the home of his in-laws. Winter has now determined that Alexander was suffering from pneumonia while he was on a prescription of methadone. His injury was "drug intake," Winter says, and "final mode" of death an accident.

"What you're telling me sounds like an accidental drug overdose while he was very sick," I said to Winter.

"That's what I'm telling you," he answered.

Karen de la Carriere, Alexander's mother, tells me that Winter is not done investigating.

"They don't even have all the reports back yet. And they're looking at that methadone prescription," she tells me.

She points out that a healthy 27-year-old is not likely to die from pneumonia. And if he was following his methadone prescription -- and so far there's no indication that he didn't -- that also should not have been lethal.

It's the combination that killed Alexander Jentzsch.

The son of the president of the Church of Scientology International, cut off by the church from both of his parents, was taking methadone while he had serious pneumonia rather than antibiotics. And that doesn't look good.

Alexander Jentzsch had been raised as Scientology royalty as a child, and he joined the Sea Org at only eight years of age. His father, Heber, had been made president of CSI in 1982 and through the 1990s was the public face of the church. But by 2004, he had fallen from favor and became a resident of Scientology's notorious concentration camp for executives, "The Hole."

In 2010, Karen de la Carriere -- a longtime Scientologist who had trained with L. Ron Hubbard in the 1970s -- went public with the way her ex-husband was being treated, and that her son was growing up without his influence. For that, she was "declared a suppressive person" by the church -- excommunicated, in other words -- and then Alexander was forced to "disconnect" from her. In the last two years of his life, Alexander was cut off from both of his parents.

He moved to Dallas, but then reportedly lost his job. Just before he returned to Los Angeles, on June 26, he received the methadone prescription. (While the drug is prescribed to help heroin addicts with withdrawal, it is also prescribed for acute pain, and Winter was told by Alexander's in-laws that he had serious back problems.)

At some point, he also came down with a serious case of pneumonia. Was he getting proper medical care for it? That's something de la Carriere tells me Winter is determined to find out.

"In three days I'm meeting with the autopsy doctor and at the coroners for a briefing," Karen tells me. She's determined to learn more.

See also:
"Tom Cruise worships David Miscavige like a god"
Scientology's president and the death of his son: our complete coverage
What Katie is saving Suri from: Scientology interrogation of kids
Scientology's new defections: Hubbard's granddaughter and Miscavige's dad
Scientology's disgrace: our open letter to Tom Cruise
Scientology crumbling: An entire mission defects as a group
Scientology leader David Miscavige's vanished wife: Where's Shelly?
Neil Gaiman, 7, Interviewed About Scientology by the BBC in 1968
The Master Screenplay: Scientology History from Several Different Eras
And a post that pulls together the best of our Scientology reporting

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Tony Ortega has been the editor in chief of the Village Voice since March, 2007. He started writing about Scientology in 1995. You can reach him by e-mail at, and if you ask nicely he'll put you on his mailing list for notifications of new stories. You can also catch his alerts at Twitter (@VoiceTonyO), at his Facebook author page, on Pinterest, a Tumblr, and even this new Google Plus doohickey.

New readers might want to check out our primer, "What is Scientology?" Another good overview is our series from last summer, "Top 25 People Crippling Scientology." At the top of every story, you'll see the "Scientology" category which, if you click on it, will bring up all of our most recent stories.

As for hot subjects we've covered here, you may have heard about Debbie Cook, the former church official who rebelled and was sued by Scientology. You might have also heard about the Super Power Building, Scientology's "Mecca," whose secrets were revealed here. We also reported how Scientology spied on its own most precious object, Tom Cruise. (We wrote Tom an open letter that he has yet to respond to.) Have you seen a Scientology ad on TV lately? We debunked some of the claims in that 2-minute commercial you might have seen while watching Glee or American Idol.

Other stories have looked at Scientology's policy of "disconnection" that is tearing families apart. You may also have heard something about the Sea Org experiences of the Paris sisters, Valeska and Melissa, and their friend Ramana Dienes-Browning. We've also featured Paulette Cooper, who wrote about Scientology back in the day, and Janet Reitman, Hugh Urban, and the team at the Tampa Bay Times, who write about it today. And there's plenty more coming.

My Voice Nation Help
music8r 1 Like

I love you, Karen.

LaLa104 7 Like

My heart aches for Karen. The way she found out about her son's death and the dispicable way she was denied to see his remains was intolerably cruel. I as a mother, don't think I could continue as a functioning person in society if this happened to me.


I admire Karen for her never ending quest to get to the bottom of what happened to her son. I hope when all is uncovered that there will be legal action against the parties involved in this.


This is without a doubt the Class A example of what DISCONNECTION can do to destroy families.

KarendelaCarriere 4 Like


Somebody asked me in another forum why I left  the Cult after such a long time.  Since it centered around Alexander, I thought I would post it here.

I do not believe for a moment that one decides to leave suddenly and immediately. I had been disaffected for a while.


Many out points showed up daily and consistently but I only exited publicly in June 2010. I voiced a lot of disagreements in the "safety" of the auditing session for years. Alexander Jentzsch knew of my disaffection and dreaded that he would be ordered to disconnect and that I would step out and be done with it. He told some friends it was "only a matter of time before OSA would force him to have no Mom, he already had no Dad." OSA and the "Church" never have understood how deep the mother/child bond is.


No matter what. Alexander and I did have ups and downs but the Church was always the 3rd party, always the interference between us. Always. Like Tom Cruise and his wives and Girlfriends, the Church is the 3rd person in the polygamous relationship !


I had been slowly distancing myself from the Church on a gradient. I did not have a single Facebook friend who was IN. I doctored my home page and took any reference to the Church off of it. Embarrassed at how they were carrying on, I removed all books, tapes and other "church" items to the basement. I gave a lot away to Goodwill. My social circles were mostly Non Scientologists.


I stopped attending events after the infamous release of the $5000 " BASICs "which almost made me vomit. One day an incident occurred which was a turning point.


Alexander Jentzsch driving on the 101 freeway at Ventura spun out, meaning his vehicle did a 180 degree turn and he was facing the wrong way on the freeway. With adrenal pumping and breathless, waiting for California Highway Patrol to show up, he calls me. No injury, no collision, just a spin out, very little traffic, it is past midnight. "Jeez Alexander ! What happened ! You are such a safe driver, you have never even had a fender bender ever, how could this happen ?! " I asked relieved to hear no body injury, no close encounters with other traffic, a more less quiet 101 freeway that late at night.


Alexander thought silently. I waited for him to think his thoughts through. "Mom, it was my Birthday on Monday and Dad did not call to wish my Happy Birthday and I was day dreaming and thinking about the issue."


Alexander was day dreaming about Heber, lack of a father in his life, loses control of his car, and spins out on a Freeway that is lethal for day dreaming drivers ! (Alexander already knew about SP Hole, he would go on tour and the public would come up to him and tell him "David Miscavige is beating people, read the Truth Rundown, Heber is imprisoned in the Hole. etc etc." Alexander relayed it all to me....) The impact of Alexander's pain HIT ME. This "No Dad" was a HUGE issue for him. It wasn't some passing thoughts. He felt ABANDONED. He felt he inferior on being the Boy without a Dad.


I went through a range of emotions, but that was the beginning of the END for me. I made a LOT of noise Internally at OSA, even called INT Base a couple of times. My disaffection could no longer be suppressed or stifled. It was only a matter of time before I connected with Marty and Mike. Illegally obtaining phone records as they do through shady PIs, OSA found out within 1 month and an OSA exec showed up at my home.


"You've been talking to Mike Rinder" he said accusatively.

"Still Stealing phone records illegally?" I challenged aggressively. " we have PIs" he said weakly.


"Rubbish. Mike Rinder is Florida, I am in Los Angeles and you know I am talking to him ~~ that was Private Investigator visio ~~ that was illegally obtained phone records !" I yelled.


The OSA Exec looked sad. We had been friends a long time. "So, Karen, here it ends, we are now the opposite ends of the fence" I received a copy of my declare 3 days later. (I wasn't supposed to have a copy, got in "under the table")



I shredded my Church  "Certs" symbolically in my high powered shredder I nick named "JAWS."


I framed my Suppressive Person Declare in a Thomas Kinkade Gallery Museum grade Redwood Burl frame ! My trophy for 35 years of service and contribution.   A trophy and and  grand  finale. It hangs above the fireplace with pride.

sugarplumfairy32 2 Like

@KarendelaCarriere For two days, since you posted your inspiring ATTACK MORE battle cry, I haven't stopped thinking about your heartbreaking comment "No mom, no dad.." I don't know you, but I know from everything I've read of you that you loved your son more than anything in life.. as a nurse, I've had the honor to care for more tan a few patients in the last moments of their lives.. Believe me when I tell you this.. Alexander had a Mom.. You were there with him.. Your love for him is soooo palpable, he had to have felt it always..

FLUNK 3 Like

No one loves you more than your parents and I am crying as I type this.

Thank you Karen for making it real.

I'm sorry you lost your boy.

When you're up to it, is there a happy memory you could share with those of us you've touched with your sad story?



KarendelaCarriere 3 Like

 @FLUNK Thank you Flunk.

Tony Ortega earlier posted this video of the memorial I put together for him at Sea.

I was not permitted to see his body.

i was not permitted to have his ashes.

At the start of this video, I tell a favorite story of Alexander ~~

FLUNK 1 Like


My friend's son decided to become a vegetarian, all on his own at age 9.

I was blown away by Alexander wanting to help the orphans when he was only 6 years old. Where did he learn such love?  

You poured you heart and soul into this event and it moved me, especially the roses at the end.

It was beautiful that you did this for your son. And for letting the world know where you stand -- for love.

AnonymousMeg 6 Like

As a nurse, I can tell you that not taking antibiotics for pneumonia can most definitely kill you, regardless of your age. Now, pain killers are fine if you have pneumonia, but methadone seems odd. Mostly vicodin and such is given to treat pain and encourage coughing by being an expectorant. But irregardless, if he didn't believe in taking the antibiotics, then why the methadone? And what killed him? I feel this is still a gray area.



Methadone was not prescribed for his pneumonia.  Methadone was prescribed as part of a pain-management program for his spinal issues.

Opiates are NOT expectorants.  Opiates are respiratory depressants, which is why so many heroin addicts die while nodding.  Respiration gets slower and shallower with each passing minute and, when they vomit while unconscious, they're unable to stop aspiration of stomach contents into the lungs.


 @AnonymousMeg Strong opioids such as methadone are extremely powerful antitussives. They should not be prescribed to anyone with breathing difficulty or chest infections as they suppress the cough reflex and prevent expectoration.

KarendelaCarriere 3 Like



There were no antibiotics found in his system.

There was only one Doctor that prescribed everything for Alexander.

The whole plethora of drugs.

Mark A Ledoux M.D.


All medical records were subpoened by the Coroner today. The case is FAR from over.....


I find it interesting that Andrea the wife that co-operated so closely with Office of Special Affairs, that she denied me one last look at my own son's dead body at the mortuary, did not care enough about Alexander to tell OSA that he was on a cocktail of drugs and methadone.


She was a phone call away. She knew the OSA line only too well. She was busy dancing in clubs and living it up with her girlfriends as Alexander's pneumonia and drug addiction progressed towards terminal.


Office of Special Affairs on the band wagon to see the enforced disconnection from his declared suppressive person mother, did not even pull any string to find out his dire state. So much for OSA investigative powers !


Why care for the life of a young boy who served 16 years in the Sea Org ? The job is to enforce disconnection from declared SPs and have them spy on their parents and report to OSA !

AnonymousMeg 2 Like

@KarendelaCarriere It breaks my heart but if I were you, I'd keep fighting too! Nothing about this is normal, and the truth will only help to heal. The truth is, he was more useful to them as a sick man because they could control him easier. He was a pawn. They will get their karma, in this life or the next.

Meelah 1 Like

 @AnonymousMeg Methadone sounds like an odd choice because if it's taken in large doses and then the person tries to quit on their own the withdrawal from it can be fatal.  Too many other pain killer options for that to be the first choice.



Opiate withdrawal is NOT fatal.  The symptoms only make you WISH it was fatal.  Opiate withdrawal does not kill; it's opiate overdose that kills.

Now, alcohol withdrawal DOES kill.  Sudden cut-off of alcohol from those addicted to it is considered a medical emergency, absolutely requires medical treatment and alcoholics must never be left alone during detox.  Seizures are the #1 predictable medical danger in alcohol withdrawal.

Sherbet 5 Like

Re Karen:  She is obviously affected (and rightfully so) by her son's illness and death, and she speaks deeply from her emotions.  But one of her strengths is that she knows the story needs to be pinned down with facts, names, a timeline, and she's determined to get the truth on record, clearly and unquestionably.  "He said/she said" does not work when trying to fight cos. 

indygirl 8 Like

He should have been in the hospital.  Pneumonia symptoms typically don't hit suddenly, often if becomes more and more difficult to breathe until finally your body goes into respiratory distress.  Even if it progresses to this point a person can still be saved if they're put on a respirator.  (I was).  Like so many others before him Alex probably died needlessly because no one sought proper medical care for him.  I can't believe it wasn't obvious to anyone who saw him in those final days that he was desperately ill and needed help immediately.

KarendelaCarriere 2 Like


A poster in tis Forum mentioned how "Walking pneumonia" can give a pain that one thinks is a back pain.


Reading the above I suddenly understood what had happened at Stan Gerson's house a few days before Alexander's death.


(Stan Gerson is the Real Estate broker/Magician/OT VIII that put out an OSA propaganda piece ~~ Stan is an OSA asset.)


Alexander was visiting with Stan in Woodland Hills, CA only days before his death. Alexander  had a breathing episode where he could not breath. Instead of a hospital visit or a Doctor's visit (but Alexander had no money and no Health Insurance) ...guess what ~~ they gave him a TOUCH ASSIST !  A Scientology procedure of touching the body saying "Feel my finger."


A few days later Alexander  was dead. Then Stan Gerson, works for OSA and puts out a deceptive fluff and froth piece which was a tissue of lies from head to toe.


The Church LIES LIES LIES.  Anything to protect their "Public relations image"

Wait.  is there a Church with a worse public relations image ?


I hope Stan Gerson is VERY PROUD of himself, "OT VIII" with all the knowingness of what to do !


Super Senior Spiritual Being !

Sherbet 12 Like

One doesn't have to be an "apostate," a tech-practicing indy, a parent, a physician, or an attorney to know that something stinks in the handling of Alexander's illness.  The "most ethical people in the world" bungled this one badly.  As others have said, our hearts go out to Karen.  Her loss hits us viscerally.

KarendelaCarriere 1 Like

 @Sherbet A Los Angeles friend of Alexanders went to the movies with him only days before his death. During the movie, Alexander was having some kind of burping/hiccuping. The friend who had no clue of Alexander's condition, angrily told him to knock it off as he was distracting from the movie.


Alexander quietly apologized even though it was inadvertent reflex and Alexander did not do that on purpose. My heart gave a pang when I heard the story. He is being yelled at for a gastro reflex he had no control over, but he could not reach out to his mom for help or tell me anything.


The "Church" of Scientology made sure of that ! While Scientology Inc did not lift a finger to help Alexander in his time of need, (16 years of sea org Service, his father served for decades) neither did his in-laws Jeffrey and Maureen Evan , each of them 30 year veterans of the Church.


All this while the CULT made damned sure Alexander had no mom and no dad. Jeffrey Evans  an OSA asset on the list of Operatives, is a key CCHR volunteer. Busy Busy busy destroying psychiatry while leaving his son in law to die with drugs and methadone and pneumonia in the next bedroom.


The methadone only kicked in and was lethal because Alexander had untreated pneumonia. He was never urged to see a Doctor. He had no money to see a Doctor and the "Church" sitting around with its Billions would not even think of helping him see a physician, while they maliciously and vindictively cut me off from him in ENFORCED DISCONNECTION.

Karma is a Bitch.

How people treat me is their Karma, how I react is my Karma.

Tomorrow is another Day !

bigbeat 1 Like

While Karen has my heartfelt condolences regarding Alexander, I can't help but feel that she and others are overly eager to assign blame when this case appears to genuinely be an accident.  It's definitely possible that there was some medical negligence at play, and it's also possible that Alexander was a recovering addict.  Methadone is not prescribed lightly.


But what I'm more troubled by is the outrage and criticism from those who are still openly faithful to LRH doctrine- which states that the "reactive mind is the only thing in the human being which can produce" respiratory illnesses like pneumonia.  LRH surely would have believed Alexander's condition to be psychosomatic and able to be cured fully by Dianetic therapy.


So what if LRH was alive today and saying these things?  Would those who proudly believe in his tech think he was a villain?

sugarplumfairy32 4 Like

@bigbeat "would those who proudly believe in his tech think he was a villain?" Let's hope so.. I'd be curious to know what caused his original back injury.. Rabid anti-scientologist that I am, I assume it was relentless back- breaking work in his sea org job.. Btw..I ran that list of meds by a bunch of docs here this morning.. I said a friend of mine had a bad cold and was taking those meds..every single one of 5 docs said something to the effect 'get him to his dr...Immediately!! If his dr. can't see him right now, bring him to the ED..' He absolutely should have been seen by a qualified physician, not a sci quack..

TheProprietor moderator 10 Like

 @bigbeat All of the "indies" I've talked to have suggested that Alexander's ailments -- particularly reports of breathing problems before his death -- should have been handled by a physician. Also, I've tried to make it clear that what is unfortunate here is that Alexander's problems were occurring while he was cut off from both of his parents because of church policy, not that he was cut off from Hubbard practices.

music8r 1 Like

 @TheProprietor  @bigbeat

 Tony, thank you for pointing this out. Indies have nothing to fear from going to the doctor for an illness. It seems that the indies have nothing to hide.

Jgg2012 1 Like

  Expect a big negligence suit here.

AndrewRobertson 9 Like


It's obvious that the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office would have been under intense pressure from the Church of Scientology to rule that Alexander's death was 'accidental' and no blame could be attached to them or their followers.


But 'accidental' means only that no one acting with malice intended to kill him.  However in the world outside that of a vicious and manipulative cult he would have received proper medical care and probably not have died.


So were those charged with caring for him aware of the consequences of their stupidity and arrogance in believing that Scientology doctrines were superior to contemporary medical science?


I hope sufficient evidence is uncovered to enable successful prosecution of those individuals and the commercial organization they sold their souls to, who could have saved Alexander's life but collectively chose instead to let him die, if this is, in fact the case.


KarendelaCarriere 1 Like


Rather than pay for a DOCTOR when he was ALIVE

Scientology INC pays for a LAWYER after he is DEAD !


This is perhaps the worst indictment of Radical Taliban Scientology and a viewpoint into the MIND of the "CHURCH"

RobertEckert 4 Like

 @AndrewRobertson The standards for a "wrongful death" civil lawsuit are not as high as for a "murder/manslaughter" criminal case (prove negligence, by a preponderance of the evidence; as opposed to proving intent or "reckless disregard for human life" beyond a reasonable doubt).  So even if the authorities decline to prosecute, Karen has (in my opinion) a solid lawsuit, which could prove very costly (in PR as well as money) to the "church".

ACoupleThoughts 5 Like

I'm sure the coroner is looking into WHO prescribed the Methadone.  Yes, pneumonia can cause back pain but there's not a doctor in the world who is going to prescribe Methadone for that pain.  Whoever prescribed it better have some good documentation on why it was prescribed and what tests were done first.


Methadone is a very heavy duty drug.  It wouldn't be any doctor's first choice for back pain.  Even still, I can't imagine anyone prescribing it for back pain without doing x-rays first to locate the reason for the pain.  I'm sure the coroner is looking for those x-rays.

Capt._Howdy 2 Like

 @ACoupleThoughts I have a friend who's in his 70's who owns a store down the street who has a prescription for 10 mg methadone tablets for back pain. I had an acquaintance who had a script for the same thing because he had AIDS.


@Capt._Howdy @ACoupleThoughts 

Methadone can indeed be a lesser-of-two-evils prescribed treatment, but it's never the FIRST choice.  It's also rarely the second or third choice, without first trying nonsteroidals, then hydrocodone, and only when all else fails, Fentanyl, Oxycontin or methadone.   

It's worthwhile to note that of all the strongest opiates, methadone has been around the longest and is the very cheapest, which may have been a factor in why this deceased young man was prescribed methadone, since his mother says he had no insurance and no money to see a doctor for his pneumonia.

sugarplumfairy32 2 Like

@ACoupleThoughts it's not just the methadone.. It's the mix of meds.. And OTC meds are just as dangerous, especially when combined with prescription meds..


@religionnews Methadone?? For pneumonia?? Sounds strangely like dope fiend "pneumonia"!


Where did "He was taking methadone for pneumonia" come from? No doctor would prescribe methadone for pneumonia. Was that just an editorial at the end or was that sourced?

TheProprietor moderator 5 Like

 @Enterbulator He was not taking antibiotics. He was taking methadone at the time that he had pneumonia, and it proved a killer combination. No, as far as we know he was not prescribed the methadone for the pneumonia. That's not what I was implying.

Jgg2012 1 Like

  Methadone is not even part of the "tech."  That is what Marty and the Indies keep saying--use the tech with standard medicine where you feel it helps, not in place of medicine.

Enterbulator 9 Like

 @TheProprietor Opiates suppress  pulmonary function, add in pneumonia and it's a lethal combo. Will be interesting to see how the methadone was prescribed and how much was found in his system. From what I understand, opiates really don't kill people unless abused and/or if used on top of other medical complications. 


Even if this was an accident, this young man turned to the only people he was allowed and they did a disservice by not getting him to a doctor, and basically neglecting him at his time of need. 


Karen, I am sorry for your loss. No parent should have to go through this. Writing this with tears in my eyes as I think of you and my own family.


Tony, thank you again for everything you do.

KarendelaCarriere 1 Like

 @Enterbulator  @TheProprietor 

At first I bought into the "car accident injury" and I had assumed it occurred in Dallas where he lived for the last year of his life. But then I found out from the Coroner that there was no accident in Dallas. The so called car accident was in Glendale months before I got declared a "Suppressive Person" and ex-communicated from the "Church."


. Alexander was driving at 1am and a 21 year old texting while driving broadsided him in an intersection. He called me at 1 am and I rushed over. His airbag had deployed and so had the other air bag of the Sea org member riding in the passenger seat. They  both walked away without a scratch.


We are delving deep into all kinds of medical records, but if this was the so called "car accident" then I am baffled because for the next several weeks we saw each other daily and there was no mention of back pain. We had to go shopping to buy him another Acura as his was totaled.


He was energetic and eager to get a new Acura, he never mentioned back pain. But pneumonia was discovered in the autopsy.


He never took anti-biotics to fight the pneumonia. He took more drugs and methadone !


The point is that no one around him, not his wife, not a  friend, no relatives, no in-laws simply got him to a Doctor. Heck, he checked in with OSA frequently.


It WOWd me that he even called "Donatella" (2nd in command in Intelligence) to *ASK* permission to work for a *WOG* company ! (A few days before his death)

My God !

The control they had on him that he, at 27 years, he  felt he had to call OSA to ask *Permission* of whether he could work for a *WOG* company !


They controlled his life, his disconnection from his MOM but OSA INTELLIGENCE did not have the INTELLIGENCE to know he had pneumonia and let him die with a bunch of phony pretended *enlightened* Scientologists.


Maureen Evans (Alexander's mother in Law) when presented with a polite letter from me asking permission to take my sons body out of the morgue, screamed at my messenger that I could ONLY talk to Office of Special Affairs. ! Now get off the property before I call the Los Angeles Police Department ! she screamed hysterically.


That was the response I got for asking for my son's dead body. She had been carefully coached by Donatella of OSA Intelligence, who was on the telephone with Jeffrey and Maureen Evans 8 times a day for the first week and more after Alexander's death.


Maureen is a Saint Hill Special Briefing Course Student, learning advanced ARC mechanics and Understanding how to handle the Human soul !


A "Private Family matter " OSA repeatedly lied to the media.

A Private Family Matter indeed ! !


 @Enterbulator  This is true. Opiates, with the exception of the overdose risk are fairly benign physically compared to other drugs such as alcohol, coke, nicotine and methedrine.

KarendelaCarriere 23 Like

Sara ~~

There is a lot of truth in what you say. I speak from having lived it and breathed it for 35 years. The irony of giving the better part of my life to a cause that ex-communicated me, turned my son against me, destroyed the Jentzsch family and had my boy die orphaned does not escape me. Scientologists, themselves, are carefully trained in the philosophy of attacking others as a first and immediate re-action.

The indoctrination starts from day one. It is MAD world out there. 

It's the WOG world. 

There is a THEM  vs US in almost all thinking.

The WOG world is EVIL ! The WOG world is insane !

Why, they drug and  electric shock people ! They kill each other !

They bomb buildings like 9/11 !

They go to war !

The jails are filled with criminals because they out of control !

They have their reactive MINDS vibrating. BUT ONLY WE, We have all the answers to IMMORTALITY ! We, only we can advance you spiritually with the Secrets of the Universe ~~ We are the Safe Harbor,


Note that it then translates as  NOT a transgression to ATTACK Evil and  INSANITY and the WOG world ~~ the unenlightened WOGS can be attacked, because they are worthless compared to the ELITE within Scientology.

That is the mindset.

It is this indoctrination, that makes OSA thugs order through Lawyers vicious deeds. It is this mentality that make them create over-the top HATE pages on ex-Sea Org Veterans.

Even though Hubbard said that the dynamic principle of existence was SURVIVE ! ~~ I do sincerely believe it is  ATTACK ! Scientology and Scientologists are always on the attack.  Wogs and Scientologists alike are the object of attacks and within the Church everyone attacks everyone with Knowledge Reports where you report every single deed and thought to "RTC" the upper echelon of the Church. 


Children are encouraged to snitch on parents, spouses reports on spouses, everyone and anyone attack each other all day long !   That is the culture ! The way Sea org members attack each other is beyond belief.   You have to experience the RPF Gulag for a day to see the sadism of attack as the RPF attack each other with increasing punishments.  In the RPF, the jailhouse guards are also RPF, so the inmates and RPFs can let fly at each other, much like the sadism of INT Base "SP Hole" where they scream and punch each other for further "Crimes."


David Miscagive has given almost a beating a day at INT base for years.  Is that not an ATTACK ?  Assault and battery ?  That's why Anderson Cooper called his series "Scientology, a Culture of Violence."  Worth a view on YouTube.


A friend of mine put it in one sentence ~~

Quote Here is something that Scientology (in spite of its knowing-how-to-know tech) is incapable of knowing.  SCIENTOLOGY IS UNDER CONTINUOUS SIEGE BY THE WORLD BECAUSE SCIENTOLOGY ITSELF IS CONTINUOUSLY ATTACKING THE WORLD. Unquote


The General Public  hate Scientology because Scientology hatefully attacks them.  Scientology is in a perpetual Destroy/Attack  mode.  This has a fall out of of all the those attacked, now  hating Scientology and plotting its demise.


Scientology is a cannibalizing virus  that you can visualize like a Sci-Fi  creepy advancing liquid that comes ashore like Tsunami hitting the land, devouring  everyone in its path, like an advancing  army.   Then the Tsunami gigantic waves pulls back and it leaves the landscape littered with the carnage of destroyed families, bankruptcies, psychological trauma, disconnection, terrorized Sea org members, stalked fair game victims and the creation of Ex-Scientologists by the thousands.


The more enemies Scientology makes, the harder it attacks.  Never before have so many been willing to speak publicly to the media, to testify in a Court of Law, to speak out on the Internet. 


I have been personally very moved at the number of private Emails and phone calls received on Alexander's death from those STILL In the CHURCH !  Willing to risk their "eligibility" and the cost of another $50,000 in security checks for talking to me, I receive an unbelievable amount of furtive and hidden support where the lines between Scientologists and Exes are now blurring.......


As Scientology puts out its message of hate in it "Freedom magazines" and hate pages ~ the numbers of Scientology-haters increases exponentially. There is no turning back this Tsunami tidal wave of enemies Scientology has so industriously been producing all these decades. It cannot be reversed So what does Scientology do with massively growing lists of enemies ? 


There is only one answer. ATTACK MORE !

deElizabethan 4 Like



EXACTLY. What you have written here should be copied and sent out worldwide.

Thank you for  putting it in words easily understood.

sugarplumfairy32 8 Like

@KarendelaCarriere Wow!!!! Karen, that was amazingly well said and absolutely eye opening!! every single word rings true and explains so much.. your passion, honesty and insight are inspiring.. I'm in awe..

victoriapandora 18 Like


 Spot on Karen. It truly is a tsunami. One reason may be that the injustice dished out by the CO$ is so over the top harsh a soul never forgets. That's why you get people like me, pushing back after being out for almost 30 years. I venture to say there are easily more of "us" than "them" at this point, and when that line is erased there might be a chance for some sanity. You say it is blurring, and I believe it.


I got  pneumonia at exactly Alex's age. No matter how strong and healthy one is it can take you all the way down. My roommate and boyfriend was a scientologist, and I had no car to get to a Dr. As I got sicker the idea of going to a Dr. drifted away in a fever dream. My roommate was working all day and auditing at the org all night. He was a miracle of the "greater good for the greater number," so I languished. L.A. FND. was making out fine on all the class six auditing he was providing at no charge, and they were loathe to give him time off. I guess he didn't consider me more important than his day job either. It's a mindset you get into. Man, was I downstat.   Pneumonia is an insidious and painful illness, and it takes you in strides. Within one week a fever can go so high that one couldn't have a clear thought. I guess they would then be in "liability" in the Co$ reverse think. But the truth is, in times such as those a normal family would step in. But wait, Alex didn't have one! And we all know why. Is the church guilty? GUILTY AS SIN. For me, one day a friend who had left the church and whom I was not allowed to speak to, got a funny feeling about me and came and banged on my door. That door may have well been a million miles away. I could not move from the bed. He actually broke in! He took me to the hospital where I had a fever of 107. He saved my life. And you know the COS response when my story came out? I got in ethics trouble for "communicating" with the SP. My roommate, the auditor was grateful to my friend, and gave him an old mark V e-meter, (the value of my life, ha.) And he almost got declared, but they let it pass because he was such a good little cash cow. I hope my words have not upset you, I can't imagine the raw pain of losing a child. I grieve for you every day... is the church guilty, I ask again. GUILTY AS SIN!

PoisonIvy 7 Like

 @victoriapandora  @KarendelaCarriere Victoria, your story is harrowing.  Thank God you had a friend with a "funny feeling."  The image of your thoughtless roommate going around thinking of "the greatest good" while the person nearest to him was literally dying in the next's a visceral example of how upside down the world of CO$ ethics is.  


You came very close to being another body on the church's (seemingly non-existent) conscience. 

victoriapandora 6 Like

 @PoisonIvy  @KarendelaCarriere

It's true PoisonIvy, I was as close to death as one can get. I seriously doubt I would have lasted one more day. At a point you're too sick to care and too feverish to think logically. It's a Jim Henson situation. On May 4th Jim, was tired, and had a sore throat. By May 16th he was dead.

The big mystery with Alex is he seemed to be getting plenty of phone calls from OSA, but no medical care. What were they up to?

sara 10 Like


So true, the quote of your friend. You reap as you sow, goes the saying.

The 'church' seems to be totally stuck in an incident on the timetrack, to use the words of Hubbard. It has become a huge 'reactive mind' in full restimulation. And it continues to be that because of its continuous overts (transgressions of moral codes) on its environment and the people within the 'church'.  

The only enemy Scientology has, is Scientology itself. It is fighting its own schadow. It has literally become what was said (I think by Miscavige himself in a different context of course!): the blind are leading the blind - into the abyss, instead of up the bridge.

They have only to blame themselves.


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