Scientology's Homophobia: Even the Church's Token Gay Guy Was Disgusted

KeithRelkin.JPG
Keith Relkin
UPDATE after the jump: Breaking news about Paul Haggis and the Vanity Fair bombshell about Tom Cruise.

One of Scientology's enduring mysteries is that it has attracted Hollywood stars when it has such a reputation for homophobia. The sexual orientation of its top celebrities is always a matter of popular speculation, and even those with the barest understanding of Scientology seem to know that if celebrity members are gay, they have to keep quiet about it.

Scientology is going through several serious crises right now, but its treatment of homosexuals is never far behind its other more immediate troubles. It was the San Diego church's support of California's homophobic Proposition 8 in 2008, for example, that became the last straw for director Paul Haggis, who famously quit the church and then told his story to the New Yorker last year. (He's not gay, but he has two lesbian daughters.)

Now, we have a remarkable story about a man named Keith Relkin who for several years became a sort of unofficial spokesman for queer Scientology. He was the church's token gay guy in West Hollywood, insisting to the public that Scientology was actually friendly to homosexuality.

On February 3, Relkin died. And now, his friends have shared with the Voice some of his e-mails and other writings which show that behind the scenes, Relkin was actually very frustrated with the deep-seated homophobia of his church.

At one time, Relkin had convinced some officials in the church that Scientology needed to reach out to the gay community in a big way. He talked the church into printing thousands of booklets to hand out in West Hollywood and other gay enclaves. But just before that happened, higher-level executives learned about the plan and quashed it, telling actress Anne Archer that she would not, in fact, appear at a launch party for the new pamphlet.

Relkin was crushed. He spent the next year and a half going through intense Scientology interrogations that convinced him the entire debacle had been his own fault. Then, over the last four years of his life, he continued to struggle through his church training, trying to understand where he'd gone wrong.

Two days before he died, Relkin sent a short e-mail to a friend.

"I think my new policy when talking to Flag staff will be to just blurt out 'I'm gay.' And watch them run," he wrote, referring to executives at Scientology's spiritual Mecca in Clearwater, Florida, known as "Flag Land Base" or just "Flag."

"Thought you might care to pass this on," he added as he concluded his note.

Now, months after Relkin's death, his friends have done just that, passing on to the Voice his writings.


1. Hubbard and the queers

We've written before about the source of Scientology's homophobia. The organization was founded in the 1950s and in some ways is preserved in amber: Scientology is still guided by the words of L. Ron Hubbard, and his books and policy letters are not to be altered in any way even though he's been dead for 26 years. So when Hubbard called homosexuality a "perversion" in his 1950 book Dianetics, and then a year later characterized homosexuality as "covert hostility" on his chart of human emotion, which he called the Tone Scale, those words tended to be set in concrete for Scientologists.

Covert hostility registers at 1.1 on Hubbard's Tone Scale -- for non-Scientologists, your emotional state can go from 0 (death) on the low end to 4 (enthusiasm) on the high end. (Only Scientologists can reach the top end of the full scale -- Tone 40, which equals "serenity of beingness.")

Hubbard taught that people can move up the Tone Scale with his processing (called "auditing"), and to this day gay members are told they need to "handle" their homosexuality through auditing, which will raise them above 1.1 to higher states on the scale.

In other words, Scientology believes in gay therapy. If a homosexual moves above 1.1 on the scale, they'll be happier, and they will no longer be gay.

"It's a cure, that's right," former Scientology executive Claire Headley told me for a story in May. "If you're auditing, you're going to move up the Tone Scale, and so you won't be 1.1 anymore."

In Scientology's highest circles of executive power, former officials tell me, that thinking is pervasive. It was only at smaller, local facilities in more gay-friendly locations that there seemed to be a more liberal attitude about gay members joining Scientology. Such was the case in parts of Los Angeles, where Keith Relkin had been spending a lot of time in the church.

Relkin worked in the movie industry -- his niche was researching rights for production companies. That work brought him into contact with a lot of people in various levels of the movie business.

In November 2000, Relkin came out publicly as a gay Scientologist in a big way. A publication by the name of Fab! had written about the church's legendary homophobia, and Relkin asked to write a rebuttal, saying that Scientology's invasion of West Hollywood was actually a good thing:

In fact, there are quite a few of us happy little Scientologists here. And considering that this community is confronted by the same problems of drugs, unhappy relationships and the stress of living which all communities are faced with, Scientology is likely to continue to catch on here... because those are the things Scientology addresses and has answers to.

Relkin asserted that Scientology was actually a leader in human rights, the Beverly Hills mission in particular was welcoming to gays, and that it was his mission to help Scientology reach out to the gay community.

Less than two years later, however, Relkin wrote a very different kind of report, this one for Scientology's Office of Special Affairs.

OSA is Scientology's intelligence-gathering and covert operations wing. In May, 2002, Relkin submitted a "knowledge report" to an OSA official, handing over a list of names in the movie business, people who had told him derogatory things about Scientology. Some knew he was in the church, others didn't.

Relkin, in other words, was spying on his friends.

"My boss at Disney...VP of Casting Administration, and a good friend...[said] 'Scientology discriminates against gay people!' Don't know where she heard this," Relkin writes.

"Casting Director...with whom I worked on a TV show a few years ago, lots of ideas that Scientology didn't let gay people in. That Cruise and/or Travolta were forced to 'convert.' She claimed to have personal knowledge of this. Even after she knew that I was gay she remained skeptical!"

"One of my selectees...(A Disney employee and an actor) was getting auditing at B.H. [Beverly Hills] Mission, then someone (I think a psych) showed him the data in DMSMH [Hubbard's book Dianetics] on homosexuality. He didn't want to continue. At that time I was not openly gay, so I couldn't easily handle him."

"My friend...a Variety reporter, has commented that he thinks Cruise is gay and hiding it. Not sure where he got this data though I've seen comments like this in gay publications. (Travolta too)."

(I've removed the names from the report out of fairness to the people named in it. Also, every source I've talked to who knows Cruise well says the man is not gay. I can't say the same for Travolta.)

Relkin lists several other cases of friends in the movie business complaining about Scientology's homophobia. Then he turns to examples that he's experienced himself.

"Being openly gay in Scientology has been very difficult and I have run into a great deal of suppression as a result. I was told by numerous terminals [Scientology's word for people] in Orgs that I couldn't be gay and be in Scientology."

Relkin writes that in the 1980s, the "Master at Arms" at Scientology's "advanced org" in Los Angeles had required him to be "bonded and waivered" twice before he could receive Scientology services as a gay man. "These bonds had to be signed by a notary public. I destroyed these several years ago, but I suspect there are others out there in the public and these (if they fell into enemy hands) would be very clear proof that the Church bars gay people."

I asked one of Relkin's friends what these "bonds" was a reference to. "What he's talking about is that when the church does allow gay people to get auditing, they have to agree that during their time in the church, they would not engage in any homosexual acts," says the friend, a gay man who has his own extensive history in the church.

Relkin continues down his list of grievances in his report. At one time, he had been married. An official at Flag, in Florida, had told his ex-wife that he was "1.1 and I would never get on my OT Levels if gay," meaning that Relkin would never reach Scientology's vaunted higher levels of spiritual enlightenment, the Operating Thetan or OT teachings.

Another official in LA had told him the same thing, that he would never attain OT as a gay man.

But trouble for him had started much earlier, Relkin points out.

"I was routed off staff at Seattle Mission in 1980 for having gay thoughts, not even actively gay at all. I was told these thoughts were 'succumb postulates'," he writes.

He was punished for admitting in 1985 to going to a gay bar. His progress in his Scientology training at the Celebrity Centre in Hollywood was repeatedly interrupted, he writes, because he was "harangued" about his "aberrated" sexuality.

"I personally was not accepted at Flag for auditing 5 years ago and was told part of the reason was that I was gay," he writes. "I have not been back since, nor do I have any plans to go there any time soon."

He received a "derogatory letter" from a Scientology official "suggesting my auditing activities in the gay community were wrong, asking 'Why are you helping gay people?' etc." he writes.

He goes on to detail several additional experiences by other people who were denied services or were otherwise treated badly because of their homosexuality.

Relkin's lengthy report about the rotten state of things in the church apparently won him at least some support from OSA and other officials. Within a few years, he had formed a couple of gay Scientology groups and had received permission to make a big outreach program on behalf of the church.

Relkin seemed about to change the image of the church in West Hollywood.


2. The Gay Way to Happiness

In 2006, Relkin got permission to have the church print up thousands of special gay-themed copies of L. Ron Hubbard's booklet, The Way to Happiness.

Hubbard wrote the collection of generic life advice in 1980, at a time when Scientology was still reeling from the prosecutions of some of its top officials for engineering a years-long infiltration of federal agencies in order to steal documents critical of Hubbard. Hubbard himself had been hiding out in case the FBI also wanted to bring him in for questioning as his own wife went to prison for her part in the plot. Hubbard's booklet contains such generic advice as "set a good example" and "do not murder." At a time when Scientology's image was particularly tainted, the booklet seemed an obvious move for good PR.

As obvious as the booklet's advice seems to be, the church puts great stock in it and hands it out in bulk at the sites of natural disasters, for example.

In 2006, Relkin had convinced some church officials to print two special editions of it -- one with a cover featuring two silhouetted men holding hands, the another with two women.

"I took meetings with him and the leaders of the Los Angeles Org, and OSA was there. They approved the gay Way to Happiness," says another of Relkin's close friends who spent many years in the church.

Like Relkin's other good friend, this former Scientologist still has close ties with family members in the church, and asked not to be named for this article. He says that he is hoping to identify himself in a future article when his situation has changed.

He says he had met Relkin during Scientology training about the time Relkin had made his knowledge report to OSA in 2002, and had then started up two gay outreach groups, Affinity International and Clear Rainbow. I asked him what Relkin was like.

"Actually, he was kind of grumpy and grouchy and curt. He tried to be polite, but that would go away here and there," he says. "He had control issues, anger issues. He would have a hard time in a group. He had big problems with himself, and he thought Scientology was the only way he could handle it."

Relkin would talk about being gay and Jewish and a Scientologist, someone who suffered triple the persecution that others went through. "I think he kind of liked to suffer sometimes. He would really get into it," his friend says. "And he did realize that they were mistreating him in the church. He absolutely did."

But in the summer of 2006, Relkin seemed to have convinced the church to take a major leap forward. After getting the permission of certain OSA officials, thousands of copies of the special edition of The Way to Happiness had been printed, a launch party had been scheduled at the Beverly Hills art gallery of Isadore M. Chait (a wealthy Scientologist), and actress Anne Archer (a longtime church member) was scheduled to appear.

TWTHInvite.jpg

"The first indication that something weird was going on happened within a week of the party, when we heard that Anne Archer couldn't make it," Relkin's friend tells me. "He had to cross out her name on all the invitations."

Then, suddenly, the Chait gallery was out. As Relkin was making calls to find out what was happening, he was told by OSA that not only the event had been cancelled, but the booklets were being recalled and had to be destroyed.

"He called me and he was all freaked out," Relkin's friend says. "He was devastated."

Marty Rathbun was once the second-highest ranking official in Scientology until he left the church in 2004. But he tells me that he is familiar with the incident, and tells me there's no question that it was church leader David Miscavige who told OSA to cancel the event and the planned distribution of booklets.

"I knew that it was OK'd at OSA level, and I know the only person who orders into OSA is Miscavige. For 22 years, nobody ordered into OSA except Miscavige," Rathbun says.

Whatever caused the sudden change of mind, Relkin was suddenly a problem, and he needed to be handled.

For the next year and a half, his friend says, Relkin talked about intense "sec-checking" he was going through to "handle" the incident. "Security checking" is Scientology's version of interrogation.

"It breaks you down," his friend says. (And it's expensive. Scientologists pay up to a thousand dollars an hour for auditing, but they also pay exorbitant rates for being sec-checked. I recently talked to a 40-year Scientologist, still in the church, who tells me over his career he's paid half a million dollars just for the sec-checking he's received in that time.)

"Keith lost a lot of weight over that year and a half," his friend says. "I would tell him, 'Keith, you don't deserve this. What you were trying to do was good.' And he would flip. 'You don't know what you're talking about! You don't know what evil intention I had to pull this in!' he'd yell at me.

ABLELetter.jpg
ABLE's letter to Relkin. (Click to enlarge.)

"Keith blamed himself, but I would tell him they had approved it. That was what was ridiculous," he says.

Ten months after the cancelled event, in May 2007, Relkin received two letters from Scientology officials.

The first was from Gwenda Byrne, Director of Corporate Affairs at ABLE -- the Association for Better Living and Education, Scientology's non-profit that oversees its "social betterment" programs, one of which is The Way to Happiness Foundation, the entity that produces and distributes the booklet.

"I want to make it clear that the approval that was given for the cover at the time was given in error, hence I am writing to you to dispel any idea that the approval was correct," the letter says.

GuillaumeLetter.png
Lesevre's letter to Relkin
Three weeks later, Relkin received a letter from Guillaume Lesevre, the Executive Director International of the Church of Scientology International. Lesevre's letter is in response to a request from Relkin that his "cycle with OSA" be cancelled -- in other words, that the intense interrogations he was going through end. But Lesevre says he can't do that.

We now know disturbing new details about both ABLE and Lesevre. After the defection of a number of high level executives, news began to leak after 2008 of a bizarre office-prison at Scientology's secretive International Base east of Los Angeles. In reports at the Tampa Bay Times in 2009 and in our stories since, details about this prison for church officials, known as "The Hole," have leaked out, and we've heard about high-ranking executives made to live in hellish conditions for years, unable to leave, fed slop, and made to endure mass confessions day after day. As we reported recently, eyewitness reports place the president of ABLE, Rena Weinberg, in The Hole since at least 2007. Lesevre, despite his high-ranking title, has been in and out of the office-prison since 2004, according to others who were held in it.

Relkin apparently didn't know that the people telling him he was a failure and a fuckup were themselves subjected to a bizarre regime that put executives through an Orwellian program of blaming themselves for everything that went wrong for Scientology.

Relkin's friends say that as a good Scientologist, he continued to believe he had somehow done something wrong by trying to improve the church's image with the gay community.

In August 2011, just a few months before he died, Relkin sent a copy of the 2006 announcement of the party at the Chait gallery with these words...

"We sent out a few thousand. Lol. What a mess, had to cancel the event, call everyone... etc. etc. Get back ALL the books. I'm not even saying that that was not a correct handling, considering the amount of HE&R [human emotion and reaction] that was being generated. An idea that was perhaps a little before it's time? Who knew..."

His friends say Relkin was in poor health his final few months. He'd lost weight. But he still talked about getting up the Bridge and handling his problems through Scientology.

But doing so would mean getting the officials at Flag Land Base in Clearwater to accept him as he was.

On February 1, he sent the e-mail to a friend, saying that he considered that pretty much an impossible task.

Two days later, he suddenly died in his home of natural causes.

By then, the friend who had gone with Relkin to get approval for the booklet from OSA says he had left Scientology, and Relkin had been forced to "disconnect" from him.

If he didn't shun his friend, Relkin would have had to be sec-checked, and he would have had to pay for it.

"It's always something you pulled in," the friend says, meaning that you are always told in Scientology that you are at fault for the problems in your life. "It's something in your case that needs to be handled -- and something you have to pay for.

"It's a brilliant way to extort money out of people," he says.

For its part, the church denies that it is homophobic. In the wake of Paul Haggis's defection and statements about Scientology's support of Proposition 8, the church's then spokesman, Tommy Davis (Anne Archer's son, who we hear has now left the organization) uttered this for MSNBC's benefit in 2009:

"The church supports civil rights for everybody, regardless of sexual orientation, race, color or creed. We are a minority, too; we understand what it's like to be persecuted, so to the extent that anything prohibits or inhibits on civil rights, we don't agree with it."



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vanity Fair Has More On Tom Cruise Wife Auditions

There have been several stories over the years about the way, post-Penelope Cruz, new possible mates were "auditioned" for Tom Cruise by Scientology. Specifically by Shelly Miscavige -- the wife of church leader David Miscavige, who has been scarce lately -- and witnessed by Marc Headley. Wasn't it Andrew Morton who made this screening process for Cruise girlfriends part of his 2008 book about Tom?

Anyway, Vanity Fair teased its October issue yesterday by announcing that Maureen Orth has a story about Nazanin Boniadi, an Iranian-born, London-raised actress and human rights advocate who spent a few months trying out to be Cruise's wife #3 before she was shoved aside and Katie Holmes entered the picture.

Boniadi has wanted to tell her story for years, we'd heard, but she's bound by multiple non-disclosure agreements from doing so. We hear that Orth managed to do a classic "write-around," putting together Boniadi's story without help from Boniadi herself. And judging from what was teased at Vanity Fair's website, she has some very juicy stuff.

Meanwhile, last night Marty Rathbun announced on his website that he's very protective of Nazanin -- we hear she was one of the first people he helped after his own defection from the church -- and he made it clear that he's ready to correct the record if Orth got anything wrong.

Well, we can't wait to see what Vanity Fair has!


UPDATE: Roger Friedman has a stunning statement from director Paul Haggis. Tonight -- Sunday evening -- Friedman posted an e-mail from Haggis saying that he knows and supports Nazanin Boniadi, and confirms that she was treated shamefully by the Church of Scientology.

I've met quite a number of people who have been treated shamefully but are afraid to speak out. This story will draw attention because of our fascination with celebrity. Most of the others are just ordinary people whose stories, if told, would not appear in a magazine. They live in fear of retribution, legal, financial or personal, even some famous ones. They fear an incredibly wealthy organization that boasts that it seeks truth, empowers people, brings families together, encourages independent thought and free speech, and champions human rights. I would like to say that i don't know how its members, many of them good and intelligent people, can remain so purposely blind when they are faced with evidence like this every day, but then I am no one to talk. I was happily blind for many years, so I know the shame that Naz feels.

Go to Roger's site to get the full statement. This is remarkable backup from a big name, and adds to what should be a landmark piece published in Vanity Fair.


UPDATE, Monday afternoon: As promised, Marty Rathbun is providing corrections on the Nazanin Boniadi story -- and he's doing it even before Orth's full story has appeared in Vanity Fair!

At his blog today, Rathbun writes that NBC, on its Today show, incorrectly gave the impression that the Cruise-Boniadi relationship lasted only three months before Cruise "tired" of the young actress. Instead, Rathbun says, the reason the relationship ended was that she got too close to the truth -- that it was all a put-up job engineered by Scientology leader David Miscavige. Writes Rathbun:

Of course, we now know that Naz was right on the money. And apparently Naz' nearly finding that out that sent Top Gun into orbit. Miscavige came to the rescue to have Naz hauled into Scientology Inc premises for behavior modification in the form of weeks of intense, overwhelming, and introverting forced confessions interspersed with hard, demeaning labor.

Fascinating. I don't know what's more entertaining, watching various news organizations trying to report Orth's story before it's actually out, or watching Rathbun scold them for getting it wrong. What a show!


On the next page, our countdown, and Sunday Funnies!

My Voice Nation Help
1155 comments
Lesbianvoice
Lesbianvoice

AFRAID as a Gay Scientologist? ABSOLUTELY!! Originally, I thought id be just like Keith and make a change but i didnt realize how quietly evil this group truly was!

I have to speak out after reading this article. i knew Keith and this makes me furious and sad for him! ive never posted a blog , but the time is now!

I used to quietly read these blogs. No one in the Church knows that I will NEVER have anything to do with this Church again. I was a very well known donator and active and the moment i came out to a handful of people, you could hear only crickets>>>>> Yet, the worst was yet to come! I cant say what because I don't want to be known right now. I fear for my family and some horrible business things have happened that I have not created but somehow, it looks like i have. I have found unknown Scientologists who have broken into my server to get access to my files. I have found an ex employee who copied emails. This group will do anything to crush someone who goes against their beliefs and their beliefs are all about money, money , money!! They must be known and stopped. Thank you to everyone who has spoken out!

uncover
uncover

Hubbards view on homosexuality:

 

HCL 21 - Anatomy of the Theta Body

16 April 1952

 

“It’s pretty hard to keep a tab on what it’s going to be, aboy or a girl. So you get this package of theta beings all advised as to the fact they’re supposed to go down there and be a good fellow this time, and it’s a woman’s body. That’s very complex.”

 

“Now, what is a case of homosexuality? You see a lot of these entities are identifiable as men, identifiable as women. Now, you take a young fellow, he’s been going along just fine, he’s a boy. Perfectly normal as a boy, and all of a sudden at the age of ten, some other boy seduces him or something of the sort, and after that he’s a homosexual.

 

What happened? Well, nothing very complicated about it. Regarding him and giving him approval all of a sudden validated a female entity. And this female entity says, “Aha! I’ve been validated; now I guess I’m boss around here.” Moves in, takes over and that’s that! How do you cure it? Straighten it out? Audit the old hag. That’s easy. just audit and kick her out.”

 

PreferToBeAnon
PreferToBeAnon

The TC story is growing:

1.  This article focuses on the DM aspect.  Finally, the media might begin to get it! I hope the press runs with it!  Also, glad to see a quote from Claire Headley--it's payback time! http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/09/05/vanity-fair-scientology-leader-mocked-tom-cruise-behind-his-bac

2.  This one from radar that focuses on Naz having a breakdown after the "punishments."

 

I can say this about the whole issue:  $ci is effecting my income.  It's not through the efforts of some aggressive SO or FSM, but through all of the $ci watching--I can't get any work done! Now, who brought doughnuts?

ziontologist
ziontologist

My apologies to Tony and everyone else for some angry comments I made yesterday.

media_lush
media_lush

I'm trying to think of the last time there was such anticipation for a [written] magazine article and my minds a blank..... no seriously, have a think yourselves and try and come up with one

DodoTheLaser
DodoTheLaser

Vanity Fair hits the stands on September 6, in most states,

which is Thursday, heh. I'm buying it, just because VF grew huge iron balls.

LaLa104
LaLa104

Was on Marty's blog and noticed he has a tidbit regarding CAA's agent Kevin Huvane who was rooted by Tom Cruise to do his bidding for his bff and Scientology Inc. for his leader David Miscavige.  The big AGENCY is trying to stifle any negativity coming forth on 3 major networks.

 

Hope it's okay to posts his link here:

 http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/kevin-huvane-and-caa-pimp-for-scientology-inc/#comments

 

I just marvel at the depths of what these 2 clowns will do. I'm guessing if they're trying to stifle the media via television they really must be scrambling for damage control.

 

 

media_lush
media_lush

Todays Mail Online:

 

I got married in a Moonie mass wedding: He was a public schoolboy from a wealthy family. So what made Mark Palmer spend seven years as a disciple of the cult?

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2198444/I-got-married-Moonie-mass-wedding-He-public-schoolboy-wealthy-family-So-Mark-Palmer-spend-seven-years-disciple-cult.html#ixzz25ZJ3Vj3b

 

the obvious sample quotes:

 

"I was idealistic and, like so many young people, searching for something. 

Communes were popular at the time. Plenty of us took seriously Bob Dylan’s line about the ‘times they are a-changin’.....

 

For the next six years, I fund-raised in this country, Germany, France and Italy as part of Moon’s One World Crusade; I lectured to potential new recruits, ....

The more doubts I had the more I committed myself, the more determined I was to overcome my ‘fallen nature.’ In an effort to get closer to God"

 

 

sheesh, I know there's no hell but wouldn't it be wonderful if Rev Moon and Hubbard ended up sharing the same shit-pit tub with whoever fails to convert the other forced to stand on his head.

 

 

 

 

PeggyToo
PeggyToo

Look Tony......1086 comments.  Got to be an all time record!!!!

BurytheNuts
BurytheNuts

By the way, did someone say there was a new thread?

Head out of sand...............I am there!

Justme
Justme

@PreferToBeAnon TC is a first class, certifiable douchebag. This poor woman has suffered enough and yet this jerk wad and that asthmatic cabbage continue as if nothing matters. Major respect to her, Katie, and Nicole.

exileandcunning
exileandcunning

 @PreferToBeAnon I want some donuts!  Luckily sci-watching isn't affecting my income, but it is affecting my reading time.  Before I discovered all this I was reading a book a week.  Now my book reading has trickled to a halt.  Goddamn LRH, even after death, enturbulating my theta!

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @media_lush

 Brad and Angie's pic of their first newborn together in People? or was that VF?

deElizabethan
deElizabethan

 @DodoTheLaser  I saw a September issue at the counter with her picture on it but not get that one. Will check soon and buy too. Couldn't find a price.

 

V4Vacation
V4Vacation

 @LaLa104 In case there's any misunderstanding -- no agency, studio, or entertainment-related corporation would do anything to protect or defend Scientology, nor are TC or DM in any kind of ultimate command.  Any damage control or spinning they are doing for Cruise is very specifically out of concern for the future box office receipts of his upcoming movies, and dvd sales and rentals of his present or past movies.  Hollywood doesn't care about CoS, or even TC personally... just the bottom dollar.  CoS has no power or pull in Hollywood.

LaLa104
LaLa104

Actually the quote says for at least one of 3 major networks.. Hope I translated this right.. Just read for yourselves. I don't want to misinterpret his post.

BosonStark
BosonStark

 @media_lush The Moonies should know by now that they only way to get certainty about being certain is with Scientology. It's the practical science of being certain and knowing. Never doubting L. Ron -- that's your one way ticket to certainty.

V4Vacation
V4Vacation

 @media_lush Thanks for posting.  This is one cult I've actually not done any thorough reading on.  Now I'm wondering what the fate of the Moonies is, with the Rev gone... So many fringe groups to study, so little time...

ashura
ashura

 @DodoTheLaser 

I saw somewhere in one of the denials that called her an apostate as well.

What I don't get (well actually I get, but can't believe that they can be so stupid) about cult leadership and all the money they spend on massaging a particular "brand" of what scientology is, is why they keep shooting themselves in the foot with their seeming bitter responses. 

 

How tin eared can they be not to realize that calling everyone who has spoken out using one or more of the following, bitter, defrocked, apostate or related words, actually makes them look really small minded and even worse, like they are hiding something, which of course they are.

 

The general public in the US, when it has a choice in how they perceive the relationship between a Goliath of an organization with billions of dollars behind them vs a David of an individual, they will inevitably pick David, not Goliath.

 

But I guess all that conditioning in the cult, based on elron's fair game type policies and destroying of the enemy mentality will die a hard but not quick enough death.

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @BurytheNuts

 Yes it's TO take on the interview PTA for his movie... I read both stories today.

media_lush
media_lush

@LaLa104 I qualified "written".... People are always interested in the first pic of a new kid, affair caught inflagranto, plastic surgery scar etc. my point was I can't remember when it was a real old fashioned written story that caused this much fuss.

exileandcunning
exileandcunning

 @V4Vacation  @LaLa104 I don't know if an agency or studio would defend CoS, but CoS does have pull.  I read an article about the Beverly Hills Playhouse, run by Milton Katselas (now dead, but he was alive when the article was published), who used Scientology methods in his classes (like word clearing) and a bunch of his students ended up becoming scilons (some of them are the famous ones).  The non scilon students felt uncomfortable ever criticizing Scientology, but the Playhouse was such a renowned acting school that they stuck around.  Then you have stuff like Keith Relkin reporting on minor comments made by his coworkers (about CoS being homophobic, or just negative stuff in general)... I'm sure with all the scilons in Hollywood writing reports like that, there has to be a certain chilling effect... I doubt most actors/studio types would speak out against Scientology.  Look what happened with South Park, when Isaac Hayes jumped ship.  If he had had a bigger part on South Park, that would have been a major problem.  So I don't think the studios would definitely go out of their way to *defend* Scientology, but it definitely has power... more of a power of silence than  a power to actually do anything, but still... 

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @V4Vacation

 Well said... As I stated I read this from Marty's blog and thought I'd share. I also gave the link as not to misinterpret what I read or how I translated this to post here.

DodoTheLaser
DodoTheLaser

 @LaLa104 Marty seems to be excited, more then ever before.

Let's see what's up. 

exileandcunning
exileandcunning

 @BosonStark  @media_lush I think the Moonies should all join Scientology... wait no, then CoS would have more power/money... but it would be a funny combo.  They could all sing Kumbaya with the Nation of Islam.  

exileandcunning
exileandcunning

 @V4Vacation  @media_lush I was thinking the same thing... I've read about a lot of cults (Jonestown was my favorite before Scientology, lol) but I haven't read about the Moonies.  I remember my dad saying disparaging stuff about them in the 80s... but he says disparaging stuff aqbout EVERYONE (including Scientology) so it never really registered as a scary cult.  I guess I have even MORE reading to do.  

 

Thanks a lot, cults, you've totally taken over my life and I'm not even a fucking member!

exileandcunning
exileandcunning

 @ashura  @DodoTheLaser I agree about their statements totally backfiring.  Like in the VF article, DM's rep's statement was that he doesn't remember "anyone's girlfriend insulting him, ever."  That is such a ridiculous statement!  It rings false even if you know nothing about the topic.

 

Also, before reading about Scientology I had never heard the term"defrocked apostate" EVER, unless I was reading something about 14th century Catholicism.  It just makes them look draconian, scary, and overly harsh right from the get-go.  Even if the reader knows nothing about them, their statements basically reveal how fucked up they are.  I'm GLAD they don't have better PR... it hastens their downfall, and it is extremely hilarious.  :)

BosonStark
BosonStark

 @ashura  @DodoTheLaser I think what the cult is relying on, is a significant number of clueless Tom Cruise fans. That is, there are people who are so attached to Tom and the roles he's played, that in their minds, he can do no wrong. These people know very little about Scientology and assume because Tom Cruise is one, and they  "all about helping," then all is good.

Once the VF issue is out, it will be the job of the media to put pieces together, try to get an interview with Shelly Miscavige for example. If they just quote a bunch of blather from cult statements it will be very disappointing. The other thing they will attempt to do, of course, is get confirmation from Nazanin herself. Since she crusades for real human rights for Amnesty International, she doesn't need to stand by and be victimized by this cult. There is the possibility she may even decide to tell her own story.

DodoTheLaser
DodoTheLaser

 @ashura Stupid system is stupid. They don't use common sense,

because they don't have any. Being too conditioned, immersed and controlled inside and out into everything LRH - they apply The Source,

The Master of foot bullets, forgive me my intentional choice of words.

V4Vacation
V4Vacation

 @LaLa104 Yep.  Thanks for the link, too.  Many of us here also enjoy Marty's blog, for various reasons.  Links are always welcome!  :D  I'm looking forward to more of Marty's reaction to the entire VF piece. 

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @DodoTheLaser

 Indeed he does.. He's been posting on this for the past 2 days consistantly. He apparently knows Naz personally and posted some nice things about her and clairfied some contradictions that was about her via Scio attacks.. I can't wait to see what else he has to say about this Cluster Fritz. 

Justme
Justme

@exileandcunning @ashura @DodoTheLaser Uggh the one thing that I love about Scamology ( utter utter sarcasm) is their rampant use of meaningless words, made up surely when the old fucker was on one of his trips. Defrocked apostate? Bite my chunky fat white Greek / Australian cottage cheese ass.

Justme
Justme

@BosonStark @ashura @DodoTheLaser I totally agree with you Boson. When I have wandered over to YouTube and looked at clips of TC, I have been surprised at the number of supportive comments - especially re: Scamology. Blows my mind really.

Delling
Delling

 @DodoTheLaser  @ashura 

It's funny in a way how the 'SP handling' fail so miserably in the information age. It might have used to have an impact when they could meet a journalist or editor looking them deep in the eye using the ashtray-commanding routine. This 'supported' by thick folders on how the SPs were all bad people and untrustworthy. It's only human to think something like 'There must be something to this' when subjected to that treatment.  Also the threat of expensive litigation helped 'convincing' editors to not print stuff.

 

This tactic sometimes worked in the past, but today the world is vastly different. People are getting better each day at identifying and calling out BS. ('Dox or gtfo', 'link or it never happened') Important court documents are often available anywhere, anytime. The masters teachings however are engraved on titanium and may not be changed so they can't change their tune. Also I believe people in the cult, due to the brainwashing, can't really learn how to work in the media landscape today.

 

I hope they never learn because planting disinformation is still (I suppose) being done every day, you just need different tactics. Once false information is out there and linked enough it might take a Tony O to see through it.

exileandcunning
exileandcunning

 @Sillygurl  @LaLa104  @PeggyToo I used to feel sorry for him being brainwashed until I read about how he treated poor Naz, reporting her for telling him "Very well done", telling her she wasn't affectionate enough... sounds like he's on a MAJOR power trip, and CoS just helps him feel even more important (burlwood pens, anyone?...).  So I don't feel sorry for him anymore.  He sounds like an asshole.  Oh yeah, and that link someone posted about how homophobic he is...

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @Sillygurl  @LaLa104  @PeggyToo

 I think it's too late for him.. He's not only been drinking the Kool Aid I think he mixes it up himself and hands it out to all the other robots.

Sillygurl
Sillygurl

@LaLa104 @PeggyToo Thank you both for posting and re posting because that was an interesting and raw take on Tom and I loved it. I often wondered why he wouldn't just pay private investigators to research LRH if this is the religion he's devoted his life to. But he isn't there anymore is he? If he ever was. He just literally cannot have an independent thought so I choose to feel sorry for him and stopped daydreaming about slapping him until he wakes up. Im still rooting for a wake up but I'm just not waiting anymore.

deElizabethan
deElizabethan

 @PeggyToo  @LaLa104  Wow, that was excellent best ever read. I like the part of he acts "engaged but is disengaged." Nothing there but what DM put into him. 

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @PeggyToo

 Yeah I was the one that posted this today on the blog.. Very interesting read...As I stated I was paroozing the net last nite and came across this.

Thx for reposting this....

PeggyToo
PeggyToo

 @LaLa104

 deE, if you didn't see it earlier, this story on TC is really good.

BurytheNuts
BurytheNuts

@PeggyToo @LaLa104 @deElizabethan Shhh!

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @PeggyToo  @deElizabethan  @BurytheNuts

 You mean the Deconstructing Tom Cruise link? or TO's late story today.. Cause I didn't post TO's story on this thread.. The other one I found quite entertaining.

LaLa104
LaLa104

 @deElizabethan  @BurytheNuts

 Oh well when I go to the home page I always hit the news section. Then there's the ticker and it will give you those stories in the center of the page. Usually it's the last ticker that will mention the newest Scientology story and I click on that.. Sorry my lingo isn't up to speed.

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