Eyewitness "Certain" Kimani Gray Was Unarmed When Police Shot Him

Categories: Brooklyn

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C.S. Muncy
The only civilian eyewitness to come forward in the case of a Brooklyn teen shot dead by a pair of plainclothes New York City police officers is "certain" the 16 year-old was empty-handed when the cops opened fire.

Kimani 'Kiki' Gray was shot several times by two officers patrolling East Flatbush in an un-marked car around 11:30 p.m. Saturday night.

According to the NYPD's account, the officers spotted Gray standing with five other young males in front of a home at E. 52nd St., near Tilden Ave. As the officers approached, Gray separated from the group and adjusted his waistband in a manner the officers deemed suspicious, the department says.

Read More: Tensions Mount After Police Fatally Shoot Brooklyn Teenager Kimani Gray | Police and Protesters Clash At Kimani Gray Vigil in Brooklyn

"After the anti-crime sergeant and police officer told the suspect to show his hands, which was heard by witnesses, Gray produced a revolver and pointed it at the officers, who fired a total of 11 rounds, striking Gray several times," Paul J. Browne, the chief spokesman for the Police Department, said.

Gray was taken to Kings County Hospital where he was pronounced dead. The officers--one a veteran of eight years, the other a veteran of five--have not been identified. They have been placed on administrative duty while the shooting is investigated.

A New York Daily News report published early Wednesday morning cast considerable doubt on the NYPD's version of events.

Tishana King claims to have watched the entire scene unfold from her window. She told the Daily News she is "certain [Gray] didn't have anything in his hands" when he was shot.

King says Gray was backing up when the officers began shooting. "Kimani started backing up," she said. "The cop took out his gun and started firing at Kimani."

"His [Gray's] hands were down," she said. "I couldn't believe he let off [fired] his gun. There was no reason. No false move."

A police source told the Daily News the officers who killed Gray initially reported to supervisors that he pulled a gun. King gave a tape recorded interview to the NYPD hours after the shooting and never mentioned the teen possessing a firearm.

A .38-caliber Rohm's Industry revolver was found at the scene.

Multiple witnesses have claimed Gray begged not to be killed.

Sharon Smith told the Voice she witnessed the shooting and said her daughter was outside when it happened; "[She] heard him say 'don't kill me, don't kill me.' And they say 'stay still' or they going to shoot you again."

On Tuesday New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly spoke to reporters following the City Council's budget hearing. He answered a number of questions about the shooting. The exchange was recorded and posted on Capital New York's website.

When asked how many witnesses saw Gray with a gun or pointing a gun, Commissioner Kelly first said that, "We are not speaking to the shooting officers because of an agreement that we have with the district attorney."

The commissioner explained that speaking to the officers could give them immunity; "So we don't have direct information from the officers themselves."

When asked if there are any witnesses in the case who "specifically say they don't see a gun," Commissioner Kelly said, "No."

The commissioner went on to say the department has three civilian witness.

Two of them heard an officer say, "Don't move," the commissioner said. The third said they heard an officer say "freeze." The commissioner added that one of the witnesses also heard an officer say, "What do you have in your hands?"

"We have several ear witnesses that hear the shots fired but nothing more. These are the three witnesses that have something of import," Commissioner Kelly said.

Asked again if "witnesses say the gun was pointed at the officer at any time," the commissioner said, "No. I told you what we have as far as the witness is concerned." He added, "There's nothing to indicate that this shooting, at this time, was outside the guidelines."

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98 comments
bp2bignblk4u
bp2bignblk4u

'Two of them heard an officer say, "Don't move," the commissioner said. The third said they heard an officer say "freeze." The commissioner added that one of the witnesses also heard an officer say, "What do you have in your hands?" 

Really? First, according to the NYPD Patrol Guide the command that should be given is "Police! Dont move!" It specifically states that "freeze" should not be used. Second, in firearms training the first thing an officer should do is take cover so in the officer statement "what do you have in your hands?" it indicates that the officer had no idea what it was thus protocol dictates...take cover. So the police version of this incident is clearly a cover up.

uncut1ga
uncut1ga

According to the DOJ's "Homicide Trends" between 1976 and 2005, African-Americans, 12.6% of the population in the last census, committed 52.2% of all homicides.

lordbeaker
lordbeaker

"adjusted his waistband in a manner the officers deemed suspicious"

Dude, have you seen how our kids have dressed for the last decade or so? They need to lay hands on their waistband every few seconds to keep them from falling off.

MottHoople
MottHoople

All of this is from chapter 5 of  "RISE OF THE SHYSTER THE DEATH OF AMERICAN FREEDOM" by Mel Daly Legal Sociologist. To be released this summer or fall

MottHoople
MottHoople

Behold the upside down five pointed star of the NRA agenda... racism, ignorance, profit, privilege, fascism. Suspended above it witness the writhing of the snake... Ladies and gentlemen hear the hissing of the serpent from their lips... lies, death, evil, world domination, fascism PAINTED ON THEIR FOREHEADS FOREVER

MottHoople
MottHoople

l give it to you right here and in order 1.RACISM NRA is a rascist org pushing an agenda that disproportionately strips the right to vote or own a gun from minorities and the poor. Almost every state that was in the confederacy during the civil has laws on the books and 11 states overall that permanently strip these two major underpinnings of citizenship from persons convicted of any felony. The word felony was reinterpreted about the same time (the reagan years) as the court concluded that "well regulated militia" actually meant "individual private ownership" to include posession of contraband which vastly expanded the scope of police and legal powers as well as their business. 2. IGNORANCE the NRA deliberately spreads lies, hypes racist fears, concocts statements they claim are facts but are in fact completely opposite of what the statistics say, and in general MISDIRECTS attention away from the root causes through a variety of methods. The conspiracy that they are creating actually extends to such things as governmental compilation of statistics and reporting or occulting of news via the media. Keeping the public ignorant about how band the problem and deliberately engaging in social programming and propaganda to convince us that its yankee doodle american for us to live in fear of being shot when we go to public places.3. PROFIT NRA AND ITS MEMBERS IN GOVERNMENT AND OUR EMPLOYEE UNIONS AND BAR ASSOCIATIONS are the DEATH MERCHANTS who profit directly from this clear and present danger and the warping of the second amendment to the detriment of the general welfare. Feloniously disproportionate community bankrupting pensions result.4. PRIVILEGE Special privileges result like PBA cards that confer illegal special immunity to avoid prosecution or fines on spouses, children, cronies. The right for off duty and retired public employees to wear their guns concealed anywhere they want FOR LIFE! 5.FASCISM They suffer from a cold war mentality they are actually seeking to create a bigoted 1950s soviet style white dominated totalitarian police state with special privileges and luxuries for themselves at the expense of their neighbors finances, freedom, and safety. GOT IT THATS RACISM, IGNORANCE, PROFIT, PRIVILEGE, FASCISM.

MottHoople
MottHoople

“I call on congress today TO APPROPRIATE WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO PUT ARMED POLICE IN EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL IN THIS NATION” “Before congress convenes and we engage in any lengthy debate over legislation, regulation, or anything else” 1:41 “We have 11,000 police training instructors in the NRA and we are ready, willing and uniquely qualified to help” “from armed security to building design and access control to information technology to student and teacher training this multifaceted program will be developed by the very best experts in the field” “Asa Hutchinson will lead the effort as national director of the national model school shield program” 3:06 “WITH A BUDGET PROVIDED BY THE NRA of whatever scope the task requires, his experience as United States attorney, director of the drug of drug enforcement agency, and undersecretary of the department of homeland security” “security is only available with properly trained armed good guys” ”under Asa’s leadership our team of security experts will make this program available to the world” 4:14 “We’ll make that program available to every single school in america FREE OF CHARGE” 

This is a blatant power grab.  NRA tried to bankrupt our national treasury without congress being in session. If this sounds a whole lot like what the nazi's and brownshirts were up to immediately before they stole control of germany it should. A better analogy is the soviets. These folks want to mimic the soviet system with themeselves as privileged party insiders complete with wealth and special privileges at the expense of their neighbors money, rights, and safety.

community bankrupting 6 figure millionaire pensions, special illegal privileges to avoid fines, arrest and prosecution for spouses, children, and cronies via the PBA CARD SYSTEM , special BLANKET PRIVLEGES to wear concealed guns when OFF DUTY OR RETIRED FOR LIFE EVEN ON PRIVATE PROPERTY EVEN AGAINST THE PROPERTY OWNERS WISHES. The source of our collective national misery lies at the criminal nexus of NRA members in AFSCME, PBA, and the separation of powers violating bar associations.

 

MottHoople
MottHoople

Really none of this should come as a surprise to anyone, our establishment creates the gangs and nourishes gun violence because they have something to gain by keeping the public in fear. NPR JUST REPORTED THAT THE TEACHERS UNION JUST SOLD OFF THEIR STOCK IN HANDGUN AND MILITARY ASSAULT WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS. That's right folks until a couple of weeks ago the teachers arm of the AFSCME had millions upon millions of our tax dollars invested in handgun manufacturers.  Check it out.

MottHoople
MottHoople

The complete inability of “gun rights” folks to negotiate about this issue reasonably, or honestly or for that matter even sanely about this plague on our nation clearly demonstrates that THE STATED REASONS ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES. The second amendment is being warped to the detriment of the general welfare beyond anything prudence or common sense should allow for reasons having nothing to do with “our rights” or “our safety”

Invisible hands are putting guns in peoples hands and keeping people shooting each other these same hands have systematically dismantled american freedom or have you not noticed the paramilitary goon squads roaming our streets charged not with our protection but with keeping the dockets full for their separation of powers violating business partners. With that comes 6 figure pensions, special privileges, certain illegal privileges,and of course institutional racism since tens of millions of minority and poor people have been permanently stripped of their rights to vote or own a legitimate sporting firearm.

MottHoople
MottHoople

Here's how they operate in our state, a couple of months ago at a friends of NRA dinner held at Kozels in Columbia County New York one of our senators from Saratoga  was the guest of honor and was photographed for the local paper holding a military assault weapon. The caption said he "won the raffle" but the truth is it was gift but they cant legally give gifts so he "won the raffle" the implication is clear that by having accepted this bribe he will vote NRA. They've gone right back to their old ways and of course what they are pushing is a soviet style police state with themselves as party insiders complete with wealth and special privileges for themselves at the expense of everybody else's money, rights, and safety. They are so arrogant they actually put a picture of this criminal act in the paper. This is how they operate in our  state how about yours? BTW many guests of honor at friends of n.r.a. dinners “win the raffle” its probably this way in your state too…

MottHoople
MottHoople


The NRA is wielding criminally excessive influence at the nexus of it, our public employee unions, and their separation of powers violating legal business partners in our government. If you are a private citizen you may do what you like but if you are on the public pay or pension YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE ANONYMOUS. Period. We who pay you however have every right to conclude that given the totality of the circumstance too many people are dying in random places and random times all over america. Our children are dying. Why should handgun owners be allowed to hold everyone else hostage! THERE IS A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. Your membership in this organization represents a clear conflict of interest with PUBLIC SAFETY, and the interests of the citizens of the united states of america whether they can vote or not. Public employees cannot claim to be acting in the interests of the people while engineering conditions that make the public UNSAFE, keeping the public in fear, generating community bankrupting 6 figure millionaire pensions, blanket privilege to wear firearms when off duty or retired for life even on private property against the owners wishes, and illegal special privileges like PBA cards that convey ability to avoid fines, arrest, and prosecution on spouses, children, and cronies that other citizens do not have. NRA members in these organizations actively operate the machinery of institutional racism by pushing for laws that have permanently stripped the right to vote or own a legitimate sporting firearm from tens of millions of minority and poor americans. NRA MEMBERS IN GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS, AND THE BAR ASSOCIATIONS ARE THE MERCHANTS OF DEATH behind the 12000 or so people murdered a year with guns and the many thousands more wounded INCLUDING CHILDREN they profit directly with too lucrative financial renumeration, special privileges, and institutional racism. THE PUBLIC DEMANDS THAT ALL MEMBERS OF PUBLIC UNIONS the AFSCME, PBA, FOP, renounce their membership or face termination and loss of pension. THE PUBLIC ALSO DEMANDS THAT ALL MEMBERS OF THE BAR ASSOCIATIONS THAT DO BUSINESS WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE VIA THE COURTS OR PRIVATELY CONFESS AND RENOUNCE THEIR MEMBERSHIP IN NRA NOW. Our problem isn’t hunters or hunting guns its clearly, obviously, statistically the handgun. NRA members may now resort to doublespeak, lies, concocting “facts” that are antipodal from how the statistics actually read, the usual deliberate misdirections away from the root cause, and whispering in dark corners in an effort to hype white fears about race war, minority crime, white supremacy, and of course if all else fails insults and threats…


africanawater
africanawater

Have they ever thought about embedding videos in police uniforms, and then streaming the video to a third party organization? I'm saying we have the technology today to make these situations clear and unbiased. It would be stupid for us to continue to fight over specifics when we could clearly see it with just a bit of 5 year old technology!

bp2bignblk4u
bp2bignblk4u

@uncut1ga The Department of Justice report is based on Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics that are submitted by policing agencies nationwide which are collated and quantified. The report then breaks all the crime categories down by race; so when you say African-Americans commit 52.2%% of ALL homicides, clearly you are deliberately giving misinformation.

Sam1
Sam1

@reallyrshackleford71 The NRA is made up of all races, genders, sexual preferences and etc. Stop spreading your hatred.

Mbungu
Mbungu

@africanawater Now, you see - if we did that, we wouldn't have to have these hilarious comment threads. Everyone would plainly see these retarded, useless little nigs behaving like typical, useless, criminal nigs, pulling guns on cops, and getting -rightfully so- perforated. And then all the rest of these criminally stupid nigs and coons would finally be without any excuse.....come to think of it, let's do it!!!

MottHoople
MottHoople

@africanawater  actually some communities in california have experimented with having tiny cameras clipped to the officers hats. This is a great idea. We really need to do this here, we need to force jersey and and Connecticut to do it as well. Of course squad cars mostly have cameras also and what often happens is that when laws are broken by law enforcement the cameras turn out not to have been in service, they were malfunctioning, or the tape gets lost. Now a live streaming public video of what our public employees are up to would be a really great thing.

bp2bignblk4u
bp2bignblk4u

@uncut1ga Thank you for showing your lack of culture, refinement and intelligence.

uncut1ga
uncut1ga

@bp2bignblk4uAll homicides are reported.  Pretty lame spin you tried.

Once again: According to the DOJ's "Homicide Trends" between 1976 and 2005, African-Americans, 12.6% of the population in the last census, committed 52.2% of all homicides.

MottHoople
MottHoople

@Sam1 @reallyrshackleford71 I'm sorry what part of anything I've said is untrue or hateful. I have no animosity towards gun owners but their rights are being allowed to trump collective safety and this simply has to stop. When I look at the reasons why this should be I get a complicated onion layered with huge salaries and pensions, legal feudalism, I see that my personal rights as a citizen have been systematically stripped off me for the last 4 decades, and yet I see gun owners claiming that having a gun patriotically protects our rights from tyranny, looking at that sanely, and reasonably I have to conclude that last argument patently false since the tyranny is already here there has been a steady disintegration of rights and no one previously had the backbone to object. I think it's cute that all of a sudden now gun owners grew a spine and think they are the protectors of the peoples rights when in fact those that are not directly profiteering from the deaths of our loved ones have been duped into cooperating with the very forces of tyranny that have already destroyed everything about this nation that made it great. I look still further and what I see are legal professionals using various kinds of fear to allow them the violation of the separation of powers and who are willing to sell law to whomever whether that be middle eastern oil interests, the british, or NRA and I see NRA wielding criminally excessive influence in government. YES CRIMINAL. I look still further down into this stinking onion and what I find is a core of bigotry and racism that when all else fails and were sure we are alone the talk turns once again to keeping the white man in control. Too many people are dying, we are not safe, you cannot force other people to carry guns to protect your rights, our children are dying and all your lies and your cleverly masked hatred have been rendered obvious to everyone except fools.

MottHoople
MottHoople

@Sam1 @reallyrshackleford71  garbage the NRA has a covert agenda and that agenda is to maintain the white man's control of the united states. It's cute how your kind accuses others of the wrongful acts you are yourself perpetrating. So here are the typical NRA moves NRA members may now resort to doublespeak, lies, concocting “facts” that are antipodal from how the statistics actually read, the usual deliberate misdirections away from the root cause, use of gender to spread fear among women and whispering in dark corners in an effort to hype white fears about race war, minority crime, white supremacy, and of course if all else fails insults and threats…

 

MottHoople
MottHoople

@uncut1ga @reallyrshackleford71 really? That's the best you can do? Gun laws are racist, the way the handgun has been used and law applied is clearly racist. Statistically, obviously to anyone who doenst have a vested interest in the deaths of our loved ones the handgun and it's owners are the root cause of our problem not hunters and legitimate sporting firearms. Here in NY about 75% of all crimes involving a gun involve a handgun and its worse for murder by firearms, and the accidental shooting figures of self, and others are no laughing matter either. Ultimately you want to force other people to carry to protect your right to carry one. THIS IS JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN some people cant, some people wont and you have no right to force carrying a gun on them. So your solution is to trust the kindness of random armed strangers. This is irrational, unsafe, and frankly insane or we can do what the real agenda is and finish turning the land of the free into a police state. I know every school in america should have armed cops inside and every single building in NY should have an armed cop stationed at the door, every taxi should have an armed cop inside, and there should be an armed cop at every single corner as well as the entrance to every single store and bathroom. All should have really high salaries and pensions because they risk their lives to protect us. Race card denied nut job? you sir are a clown in a circus that is spinning out of control and I seriously doubt you'd run your mouth like that to me in person. Nut job? thanks archie bunker well done you've cut me to the quick

MottHoople
MottHoople

@uncut1ga @reallyrshackleford71  What part of any of what I said is untrue. Can you produce any facts to the contrary? I look out my window I see gun violence is a serious problem, yet NRA govt types keep gun laws lax and loose dangerous guns on the street at the same time they refuse to obey the will of the majority and legalize drugs THEREBY CREATING THE GANGS  that they put guns in the hands of the poor and create the narcotics trafficking business. They get excessive salaries and pensions by M.A.I. standards in most communities and have in fact driven entire cities like Stockton Ca, Detroit Mi,  Heck Camden NJ was ACTUALLY BANKRUPTED by it's own police department that was sworn to protect it. They had to fire 30 guys in one fell swoop who were all making in excess of 100k a year. This is in a city where most people live below the poverty line the guys fired were all rank and file without so much as a single stripe and of course none of them EVEN LIVED IN THE CITY. Race card? Buddy the legal system is INSTITUTIONALLY RACIST, has been for some time, you folks are selling bigotry but even the bigots have had enough of you because while they support your bigoted agenda even they are not okay with being bankrupted by you why should regular folks have to work hard to support thousands of millionaire retiree pensioners making 100k+ a year in communities where MAI is 30 or 40k Your in for a wake up call friend the times have become a tempestuous sea and you are in a leaky poorly made rowboat

Sam1
Sam1

@reallyrshackleford71 @africanawater That is actually a very good idea but the cameras should be monitored by unaffiliated citizens to ensure no "accidental" data corruption or loss occurs.

uncut1ga
uncut1ga

@MottHoople @uncut1ga @bp2bignblk4u How well did the complete banning of guns work out for Mexico slick. They have a gun homicide rate 4 times higher then the US. If you ban guns only criminals will have guns.

MottHoople
MottHoople

@uncut1ga @bp2bignblk4u which is why we need to take guns away from everyone banning everything except  legitimate sporting firearms or long stock non dis assembling 1-4 shot firearms and disarming the police. A 30 yr mandatory sentence for possession of the newly proscribed firearms will easily handle the problem and we can then disarm the police.

bp2bignblk4u
bp2bignblk4u

@uncut1ga I know far more about policing and how they cover up their dirty deeds than you will ever know. Now you have my permission to have the last word.

uncut1ga
uncut1ga

@bp2bignblk4u Thank you for showing us your racist ignorance and inability to understand facts. When you point a gun at cops they shoot you.

uncut1ga
uncut1ga

@MottHoople  In every state, except Illinois. a person can get a CCW and carry concealed legally.

uncut1ga
uncut1ga

@MottHoople@uncut1ga@bp2bignblk4uQuit playing the victim.

"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."-- Booker T Washington


uncut1ga
uncut1ga

@bp2bignblk4u@uncut1gaSince when are government stats racist? Race card denied you racist.

Once again: According to the DOJ's "Homicide Trends" between 1976 and 2005, African-Americans, 12.6% of the population in the last census, committed 52.2% of all homicides.

MottHoople
MottHoople

@uncut1ga @bp2bignblk4u then higher rates of criminality should come as no surprise to anyone. In fact all of this is carefully planned to create a permanent criminal scapegoat underclass that will provide permanent lifelong clients for various legal institutions both on the punishment and treatment ends of the spectrum.

MottHoople
MottHoople

@uncut1ga @bp2bignblk4u LE has a hard job and there are dangerous criminals out there but it's obvious that vis a vis salaries/pensions and special perks like the PBA card system or the blanket privilege to carry guns when off duty or retired for life even on private property even against the owners wishes or 0% financing on cars back when no one got 0% fleet pricing on your personal car and your wives and kids cars, or special lower interest rate mortgages then the rest of us get one can see that the legal system is suffering from what has of late been referred to as perverse incentive. 

MottHoople
MottHoople

@uncut1ga @bp2bignblk4u and you neglect to mention how in the 70's 80's and for a good part of the 90's if you were black many places wouldnt give you a job, how you couldnt move to the white suburbs where NRA LE members live because even if you could afford a house they would refuse to sell one to you, you neglect to mention how the legal system refuses to obey the will of the people and legalize and yet at the same time pushes to keep gun laws lax and dangerous firearms on very mean streets. You are clearly unaware of the fact that numerous times guns "seized" by LE and reported destroyed have wound up back on very mean streets used in another homicide. Black folks are no more likely to commit homicide than anyone else but have been subject to a century's worth of social programming that they are savages, that less is expected of them, that they are wild the disproportionate homicide statistic IS the result of social and political factors and not a reflection on the people. If you tell people they are no good, that they are expected to be criminals, provide them with lesser work opportunities, living arrangements, then provide them with planned  criminal channels via things like  drug trafficking, prostitution, and gambling  and give them easy access to guns

bp2bignblk4u
bp2bignblk4u

@uncut1ga The Homicide Trends report from 1980-2008 has homicides broken down by race as is all categories of crime. Your statement implies that Blacks are responsible for all homicides involving all races. But you are free to maintain your racist views.

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