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Campaign 2008

How Howard Dean's Florida Ambiguity Helps Obama and Hurts Hillary

By Wayne Barrett, Friday, May. 2 2008 @ 3:54PM
Comments (29)
Categories:

This is the press release Howard Dean, whose offices were picketed this week by hundreds of angry Floridians, should issue as soon as possible:

“The Democratic National Committee rules only apply to delegates and the Rules Committee has so far barred the seating of any delegates from Florida. But the rules say nothing about how the comparative popular vote between candidates should be tabulated. Thus, the DNC’s delegate ruling has no effect on whether superdelegates who are using the popular vote as a measure of the relative strength of the candidates should or should not include Florida’s popular vote in their national tally. It is up to each superdelegate to decide if they want to count or discount the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted. I am issuing this statement because so many observers of this close contest have misinterpreted the DNC’s actions and conflated the delegate and popular vote questions.”

Instead, Dean has resisted inquiries from the Voice, by email and phone, for several weeks asking for a straightforward answer to the popular vote question.

His spokesman, Damien LaVera, who responded by email to some questions, would not answer any inquiries about the Florida popular vote. The unofficial word from the DNC, which no one will say on the record, is that it “doesn’t keep track of the popular vote” so it’s “not going to comment on it,” pointing out that the rules it enforced against Florida are “named the delegate selection rules.” Dean has also sidestepped the issue in his recent swing of television interviews, including Meet the Press.

Dean’s stubborn silence has led skilled commentators like Politico’s Roger Simon to conclude: “Under Hillary Rules, Clinton counts the popular vote in Florida, where candidates were forbidden to campaign. The Democratic Party does not recognize the results of the Florida primary.” Contacted by the Voice and asked to point out when the DNC has discounted the Florida popular vote, Simon referred us to his own story of August 27, 2007, when he reported on the DNC decision to reject the seating of “all its delegates,” as Simon put it. In fact, Simon wrote in that story that the popular vote in the Florida primary would still matter “because the media concentrate mostly on the beauty contest anyway,” predicting that “the winner of Florida would still get an early boost in the process.”

Unless Dean explains on the record what his minions say off it—namely that the delegate disqualification does not cancel out the popular preferences of a record number of Floridian Democrats—the numbers crunchers like NBC’s Chuck Todd will continue to routinely portray the margin as 500,000, when, with Florida, it would be 200,000.

Dean, Simon, Todd and every other talking or writing head on the national scene recognizes that the discounting of the Florida vote—which no one even bothers to explain—shapes the rest of the discussion about the race. With Florida, Clinton has a chance of being ahead in the popular vote at the end of the primaries. Without it, she doesn’t. That makes the consequences of not counting it as partisan as the consequences of counting it. Of course, the Clinton camp is trying to make a similar case for counting Michigan, but, as Simon and others have noted, Obama’s withdrawal from that primary makes any inclusion of the Michigan tally unfair on its face.

Neutral observers make the reasonable argument that Florida’s vote should not be considered part of the national comparison because Barack Obama has repeatedly narrowed margins in states where he has campaigned, and neither he nor Clinton were allowed to campaign in Florida. The absence of a campaign, they say, heightened the value of her greater name recognition. The fact is, though, that Obama alone did a major national cable advertising buy that ran in Florida for eight days leading up to the January 29 contest. That buy was designed for the 22-state Super Tuesday races, but instead of maximizing his exposure in the week before February 5, he stretched it out over two weeks, and saturated CNN and MSNBC before the Florida election. Combined with the national news coverage Obama had received since Iowa and the momentum that came with his South Carolina rout of Clinton, the cable buy made the Sunshine State’s primary close enough to a level playing field to count in popular tallies. Obama’s subsequent resistance to any effort to re-do it also undermines the critique of the January results.

Dean clearly hopes that his evasions on this elemental question of fairness will be seen as a demonstration of his unwillingness to take sides between the warring camps within his own party. It is the opposite. In the absence of an unambiguous statement clarifying the limits of the DNC’s delegate ruling, he is siding with Obama, whose recent conflating press releases have argued that “without the rogue states”—Florida and Michigan—“Obama is still up by 500,000 votes.” Everyone involved understands that it is Obama who is benefiting from the media decision not to include Florida’s vote in the popular vote boxscore that runs across every American television screen, on virtually every news channel, everyday.

Of course, the endlessly repeated omission of this vote, and Dean’s abdication, is not just affecting the candidates. It’s doubling the pain for Florida Democrats—not only are they invisible in the delegate tabulations, which the courts have ruled is clearly within the powers of the national party, they are phantoms in the popular tally, a nullification unsupported by any legal authority.

Since Dean isn’t talking, Ralph Dawson, his Yale roommate and member of the DNC Rules Committee, may be a window into his thinking. It was Dawson, a friend and adviser to Dean’s 2004 presidential campaign, who made the motion to strip Florida of its delegates last year. An uncommitted superdelegate from New York, Dawson told the Voice: “My position is that the popular vote is a relevant concept because neither side is going to get to 2025 without superdelegates’ votes. When that happens, they can and should take into consideration whether it’s appropriate to consider Florida. Some would say yes, some would say no. The answer will be clear over time.”

Echoing Dean’s current state of indecision, Dawson argued peculiarly: “I have not come to a conclusion that it should count at this time. I think at some time, we could re-evaluate the votes.” Dawson did anticipate that Democrats might get to “the point where Florida’s ‘beauty contest’ will change” the popular vote winner. Should that happen, however, Dawson added: “But I’m not prepared to take it into consideration.” Dawson seems to be saying that he and his DNC friends will include Florida’s popular vote—much like its delegates—only after a nominee has been effectively determined without them.

Two other DNC allies, Donna Brazile, a power on the Rules Committee, and treasurer Andrew Tobias were in a similar state of avoidance. Tobias, who voted in the Florida primary, said he wasn’t willing to “make a statement” about whether his own vote should be counted in national popular comparisons. He said that party officials were “enthusiastically neutral” and seemed to think that his refusal to answer questions about counting the vote in his home state was an example of that, though the refusal was an implicit ratification of the Obama position.

Brazile battled the question rather than addressing it. Her email said: “There’s nothing in the rules” about popular votes “so this becomes a matter of personal preference.” But on the phone, she declined to say what “metric” she would use as a superdelegate in evaluating candidates. “I will not give credibility to one argument or another,” she said. Brazile also pointed out that the full popular vote in four caucus states is not being counted in the national tally either, and if it were, she said that would add to Obama’s total (if the primary rather than caucus results in one of those states, Washington, is factored into the ultimate popular vote tally, Obama’s gain from the four contests would be roughly 60,000 votes).

Mark Bubriski, a spokesman for Florida Democratic Party, whose leader Karen Thurman is uncommitted, certainly believes, as do many uncommitted would-be Florida delegates contacted by the Voice, that the popular vote should be part of the national calculations. “We have no say over what the national media does,” says Bubriski. “But the fact is 1.75 million voted, which was more than any other state that had voted at that point and in fact more than the other early states combined. The media should’ve been far more respectful of Florida voters.” State Senator Steve Geller, who says he’s also uncommitted, complained: “Somebody needs to explain why voters are being punished. It’s ridiculous how we have the highest voter turnout in Florida history and the votes are not being counted.”

Research assistance by: Kimberly Chin, Shaunna Murphy, Shea O'Rourke, Marguerite A. Suozzi, Adam Weinstein, John Wilwol

Comments (29) Write Comment
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More About:

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Comments (29)

Lisa says:

But even if you add in the Florida popular vote, Hillary is still behind. See RealClearPolitics for the various summations, with and without Florida.

Posted On: Friday, May. 2 2008 @ 5:12PM
Ashley says:

How does Clinton want to win? By making sure every voice is heard.

How does Obama want to win? By silencing millions of voters.

Obama is a tool; he'll never have my vote if he takes the nomination through disenfranchising millions of voters and buying superdelegates (he's spent over $800,000 on them!).

Posted On: Friday, May. 2 2008 @ 6:06PM
alma ludivina says:

God Protects America from Hillary Clinton.

She must denounce, reject and repudiate herself for her involvement in the Whitewater scandal
The White House travel office controversy,
The White House FBI files controversy

Mrs Clinton is guilty by association of the power of abuse in the The Lewinsky scandal by Husband Bill Clinton.
She choose to stay and with this shamless criminal who abused of his power against a citizen younger than his daughter.
Mrs. Clinton must denounce, reject and repudiate publically Mr. Clinton

Posted On: Friday, May. 2 2008 @ 11:02PM
Will says:

I don't have any hard numbers, but I'm assuming there are quite a lot of Floridians who did not vote in the primary because they thought the primary was meaningless. How do you account for lack of these voices in Florida primary? All in all, it seems pretty bogus to me to assume that the Florida primary was just like any other primary except that the DNC will not seat the delegates elected by the primary: there were so many unusual factors affecting the election that its results really can't be used to make a decision as big as whether Clinton or Obama should be nominated.

Additionally, I don't think Florida has any one to blame other than itself. The DNC made the rules clear, and Florida chose to break them. The voices of the people of Florida were silenced by the decisions of its own lawmakers, not Howard Dean or Barack Obama.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 10:34AM
Martin P. says:

It's all about the delegates, the popular vote count means nothing, and, in fact, if the candidate you are for did not need it, you wouldn't care about it. The whole popular vote thing is meaningless when you consider that some states allow only democrats to vote, some states allow independents, some states allow anyone. Clinton is using a form of the "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" strategy. And you know it. It's another made up tool to sway voters to one side or another, but it means relatively little.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 2:00PM
Kevin says:

You people in the media need to quit trying to hype Obama. Bottom line: It's pathetic.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 2:09PM
timbob says:

Hey Ashley,
Since your going to lower the discourse to calling Obama a "tool",then "Billary" is a lying, egomaniacal bitch who will use any right-wing, Rovian tactic to win even though she has no chance in hell. Her only concern now is to destroy Obama so he'll lose to McCain in November and the bitch can try running again in 2012. And by the way,Florida and Michigan didn't follow the rules which is why the votes are disqualified.Its not Obama's fault.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 2:31PM
Pedro says:

Ashley...NOT TRUE! Obama is not disenfranchising anybody. He is simply playing by the rules. Hillary Clinton did not care about FL and MI until the beauty contests went in her favor! Nobody talks about disenfranchising many more who did not vote in the belief that their votes would not count. There is a reason we have rules. They favor Obama only because he went along with them. Hillary is trying to rig the rules in her favor. Shame on her!

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 3:41PM
Michael says:

Oh, come on. How can you treat Florida as a legitimate contest when there was no campaigning done ther? Are you saying that campaigning is not part and parcel of any election, especially this year?

Pre-campaign, Hillary had a 20 point lead in Pennsylvania and it ended up at 9.

Pre-campaign, Obama had a double digit lead in North Carolina and it is clearly going to be less. So it can cut both ways.

The point is, exposing both candidates through a vigorous campaig matters and a contest without any campaigning is not legitimate for either party.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 5:40PM
Chuckamok says:

Hill-Rod agreed to the rules about the timing of state primaries ... but now that they work against her ... she wants to change the rules. How quintessentially Clintonista - lie, steal, cheat back stab - all for the sake of power.

Any woman who backs HRC - who led the assassination squad tasked with sliming ANY female who dared to expose BubbaJeff's sexual predations - should be ashamed of herself.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 5:56PM
Judy says:

I'm a Florida resident, and Florida's votes should not count. It was basically a non-election. A lot of people didn't vote in the democratic primary, because they were told their vote would not count. A lot of democrats switched to Republican for the primary so their vote would count. It's not fair to change the game after the fact. Florida knew the penalty for holding their primary early, and they chose to do so anyway.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 5:58PM
Anonymous says:

The DNC should not have the power to strip U.S. citizens of their vote. Florida should count as is, and Michigan should re-vote! This is after all supposed to be a DEMOCRACY.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 8:28PM
Jesse says:

The DNC should not have the power to strip citizens of their vote. Florida should count as it's hard to make an argument that people stayed home when it was a record turn out. Michigan should re-vote.

I won't vote for Obama if he wins as he should demand that the voters have their say.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 8:31PM
Dittohead says:

I'm loving this! Thank you for helping me keep taxes low and our troops fighting. Obama gets no votes from Hillary supporters and vice versa.


Oh, I am loving this.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 3 2008 @ 9:42PM
Fred Kennedy says:

Whitewater? travel office? The White House FBI files controversy? The Lewinsky scandal??? You effen hypocrites!! Whitewater was a "witch hunt," despite 15 convictions -- remember?? Lewinsky was "just sex" after all and part of a "vast right wing conspiracy." Now you have the nerve to use it against Hillary because you are fellating Obama. Disgusting. It just goes to prove Liberals are the lowest form of life. Liars. Hypocrites.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 4 2008 @ 1:14AM
Chuckamok says:

"The DNC should not have the power to strip U.S. citizens of their vote."

Actually, a political party has all the right in the world to run itself as it sees fit.

If you don't happen to LIKE it, form yourself a new party.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 4 2008 @ 1:50AM
Jeremy says:

Hi, did you know that the people who helped get Florida and Michigan to NOT count were 'Obama supporters' and republicans? I was an Obama supporter until I learned how he set this all up to his advantage. He knew they were strongholds of HIllary, so of course he would never fight to get them working. He knew the only way to win was to annihilate his competition, and make it easier for himself. He's a smart sneaky man. Look it up, you'll see what I"m talking about. Once I learned of his true nature I got a knot in my stomach. Can't we ever have a REAL politican, who REALLY MEANS WHAT THEY SAY!?

Second, Obama became a senator by eliminating his competition, so he was the only one on the ballot.

So, once you learn these discrepancies, you will see how this man is a phony, and sadly leads us to choose the least fake of the two, which happens to be Hillary

I know, I wouldn't vote for her if there were better choices (ron paul?) but she's actually a better person then he is.

And it's sad that nobody can figure this out!!!!! Obama is full of it, he lies so much more then hillary has or does or will. I hope you take my post seriously and do your research on the extraordinarily sneaky Obama fraud.

Mind control consists of promises that lack specificity, such as CHANGE, but what change??? where?? who???

And he uses that to blind your eyes from seeing what he really is, a power hungry liar, a man of little integrity and knowledge to run the country.


his sneakiness makes Hillary, even McCain look like an Angel.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 4 2008 @ 5:04AM
jennifer says:

I don't know much about national conventions but in the modern political era has one state ever been kicked out of a convention much less two? If Obama looses to McCain, (Florida appears to be a goner already)the role of the DNC in removing those two early states from the table, and the boost it gave to Obama campaign by allowing him to run up the delegate score with lightly attended caucuses is gonna be scrutinized heavily. At the end of the day, Howard Dean in his role as party chairman should have forced Florida and Michigan revotes. The Obama camp would have been angry but Dean would have had the moral ground. This country has 50 states not 48 and its going to come back to bite the Dems big time.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 4 2008 @ 6:54PM
Nicole says:

I agree with Florida votes not counting. I am a Floridian who did not vote in the primary because I knew it would not count. It would be unfair for me and others who felt the same way. Hillary needs to stop protesting about the Florida votes as it does not help her case in my eyes. The more she whines about it, the more it makes me not want to vote for her if she was to be the Democrat running in the general election.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 4 2008 @ 7:37PM
Kenton says:

I'm a Florida resident, and I love tasty orange juice.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 4 2008 @ 9:17PM
Tom Storer says:

Superdelegates vote for whomever they please--the whole point is that they are not bound by popular vote. That decision-making leeway is the whole point of having superdelegates to begin with. There is no point in the DNC announcing a position on the popular vote precisely because the superdelegates are supposed to make up their own minds. The only position the DNC can have that means anything is on the pledged delegates, and they are firm about that: they won't seat them (although arm-twisting and horse-trading may lead them to change their minds).

Posted On: Monday, May. 5 2008 @ 5:38AM
Shannon says:

Obama's race for the state senate was more complicated than "eliminating" his opponent. He was asked to run by the person holding the seat as she had higher aspirations. Things did not work out for her bid to the national level, so she asked Obama to no longer run for the office. He had campaigned for some time, and made commitments in the process and refused to be bullied into removing his name from the ticket. She tried to run against him, but did not follow the rules properly. Specifically she did not have enough names on the petition she had to circulate, and many names were of voters not even in his district. He challenged the petition and she dropped her name off the ballot without even trying to contest the challenge of the petition. Get the facts, and it is not so cut and dry. As for Florida and Michigan - they made their own bed in their state legislators. The State dems should have stood up then, but they wanted to challenge the DNC. Now this is the mess we have.

Posted On: Monday, May. 5 2008 @ 5:29PM
Robert says:

exactly Shannon! why don't YOU actually do real research(not right wing smears or some chain e-mail)on the subject for a change.

Posted On: Monday, May. 5 2008 @ 7:05PM
Word says:

This article is stupid, and has a very obvious bias toward one candidate. Here are some points about it:

1. Granted, the rules for selecting delegates and nominating a candidate are convoluted, but all the candidates agreed to them, including the two candidates currently in the race.

2. The reason that Florida had more votes than all other contests combined up to that point was a deliberate act by the Democratic Party. The system allows candidates that do not have large campaign funds a chance to get their message out to smaller audiences in smaller contests. Although this did not affect the Democrats so much, its effect can be seen in the once-viable campaign of Mike Huckabee.

3. This article asserted that Clinton's name recognition=Obama's advertising in Florida. How is that so? Because you say so?

4. Superdelegates are under no obligation to vote any way. Some may decide to discern the popular vote, which is their prerogative. There are two major flaws in this theory. First, turnout is lower in caucus states (they require a longer time commitment, do not accommodate absentee voting, etc.) and often the popular vote in caucuses is not even recorded. Secondly, as I stated above, the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination is not a national primary; it's a convoluted process to elect delegates. In states like Texas, more delegates were awarded for winning areas that have traditionally higher Democratic turnout. A strategy focusing on heavily Democratic areas should not be penalized.

Granted, the Democrats do not want to disenfranchise voters in the swing states of Florida and Michigan; however, if the party gives in to these states, it will only encourage other large states to jump to the head of the queue in the next primary calendar in 2012. Provided that there isn't a Democratic incumbent running, only the well-funded candidates will be able to the ticket, and little-'d' democracy fails.

Posted On: Monday, May. 5 2008 @ 7:18PM
bobby Sethi says:

If Florida's votes count, then Canada's vote should also count in both Democratic and Republican Primaries.
Why dis-enfranchise your biggest trade partner and brother? If Guam can, why can't Canada?

Posted On: Monday, May. 5 2008 @ 8:02PM
Matt says:

This article is ridiculous non-sense. The popular vote doesn't count. Even if you forget that there are rules, basic fairness means that the popular vote should not count. States with caucauses should not be penalized for having caucauses (caucauses require a bigger time commitment and always have a lower turnout). A number of caucaus states like Washington state don't keep track of popular vote.

The real problem is not all this non-sense in the press about delegate and popular vote. The real problem is that superdelegates exist at all. We don't need the leaders of the Democratic party telling Democrats who they should nominate. If there were no superdelegates this contest would have been over in March, which is about when the Clinton camp gave up on the notion of getting ahead in pledged delegates. Obama is going to be very close to 50.1% of the pledged delegates after tomorrows contest. He most certainly will be after Oregon and Kentucky. If we had no supers that would be the real final end to all this.

Posted On: Monday, May. 5 2008 @ 9:48PM
the truth teller says:

Some states don't even keep popular vote totals. So how do you count them? Obama won most of them too.

Also it's a delegate race, nothing more. The rest is only an argument for the supers. The popular vote is only important in that respect. The winner is determined by delegates period!

If another country held an election that the candidates weren't allowed to campaign. Do you think we would recognize it? No way, we would call it invalid. Much less one where all the names weren't on the ballot. Think about it, what does constitute a fair election. The FL and MI primaries don;t meet that criteria.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 6 2008 @ 11:31AM
Este says:

HRC had a President's support and came into the race the presumptive front runner. She's had plenty of time to convince the American public and has not. What she has successfully done is played to our concerns that she IS a divisive influence. She's burned her bridges with liberals who know better than to trust her after voting FOR an immoral war and with African Americans who see what generations of party loyalty mean. She hasn't convinced her own party and she won't convince the country. It's time to end Lady Macbeth's ambitions and Obama is within striking distance of putting her out of OUR misery before she self destructs the party so she can run in 4 years. Oh yeah, we haven't seen the last of this Hillraiser.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 7 2008 @ 12:15PM
Myst says:

“Somebody needs to explain why voters are being punished.”

HOWARD DEAN AND NANCY PELOSI HAVE MADE THEIR AGENDA (PROMOTING OBAMA) MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR DEMOCRATIC VOTING PROCESS. I AM SO DISGUSTED AS A DEMOCRAT THAT I AM NOT ONLY VOTING FOR MCCAIN BUT I WILL NEVER VOTE DEMOCRAT AGAIN.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 11 2008 @ 3:27AM

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