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Scientology

Jason Beghe to Scientology Mouthpiece Tommy Davis: 'You're Losing Your Soul'

By Tony Ortega, Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 5:11PM
Comments (94)
Categories:


Scientology defector Jason Beghe on Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis: "You see the eyes, the lying that he's doing. Anybody can see that this guy is not clean. It's clear as day."

Last week, John Roberts of CNN grilled Tommy Davis, a Scientology spokesman, who was predictably evasive about what L. Ron Hubbard's wacky minions are up to. 'Disconnection,' the church policy of splitting up families in order to shun critics of the church? Never happens, Davis claimed. And as for that high-priced stuff about removing alien souls with lie detector machines? "It's unrecognizable to me," Davis told Roberts.

But it was Davis himself who was practically unrecognizable, Jason Beghe tells the Voice.

Beghe is Scientology's most notorious recent defector, a veteran film and television actor who, after twelve years and approximately $1 million spent on the religion, escaped in spectacular manner with a web video in which he denounced Scientology as "destructive and a rip-off."

Davis, meanwhile, is the son of another Scientology celebrity, actress Anne Archer. He's a longtime Hubbardite himself, and helped to run the Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles. Davis told Rolling Stone in 2006 that L. Ron Hubbard was "the coolest guy ever." Davis is also well known for provoking BBC journalist John Sweeney into a temper tantrum that became a YouTube hit last year.

Beghe, however, has more personal memories of the man.

"On the day I was getting married, I was waiting in my house with David Duchovny, my best man, and everything was fine. Then about an hour before I had to go, I started to get nervous. I don't drink much, so I don't have much to drink in the house. So I called Tommy Davis and he brought me a cold six-pack."

And there was also this: "I had a terrible car accident,"Beghe says. "I was in a coma for three and a half weeks. Either Tommy or someone else from Celebrity Centre was with me for that entire time."

"I know this guy,"Beghe says.

And that's why Davis's appearance on CNN was so troubling, Beghe explains.

"He was saying there's no Disconnection. That's a fucking lie. I'm not even a declared suppressive person, and they've all disconnected from me," Beghe says about his former friends in the church. "They kicked my four-year-old son out of a fucking Scientology school. There's your church."

Davis, however, looked terrible as he tried to spin Roberts. "He's lying, and it shows. What really saddened me, this was one of the most handsome, beautiful kids I'd seen in my life. And he's starting to look like a hardcore Scientologist. He's no longer beautiful. You see the eyes, the lying that he's doing. Anybody can see that this guy is not clean. It's clear as day," Beghe says.

"I felt sorry for Tommy. If he's reading this, I want to tell him: you're losing your soul. Look in the mirror. You look like a liar. And remember what happened to Mike Rinder. You're starting to look like that," Beghe adds, referring to a former high-level official who recently "blew," or left the organization. "They used Rinder as a spokesman, when he was the kind of person you'd cast in a movie as the villain. It was chilling. And Tommy is getting that look."

Beghe says that he's heard the reports that after the Sweeney matter, Davis was put on "RPF" -- Rehabilitation Project Force -- a notorious program of manual labor that Hubbard created to "redeem" wayward Scientologists.

"The RPF is there to suppress you, to make you toe the line. They pull all your hidden data [make people confess to wrongdoings in intense therapy sessions], they make you do menial, repetitive labor. And there's sleep deprivation. This is bad shit" Beghe says.

After watching last week, Beghe says Davis looks like he'd been through that kind of program.

"When I saw him on CNN, I thought, 'Oh my God, what have they done to this guy.'"
Beghe, who had reached 'OT V', one of the highest levels in the church, which charges increasingly substantial amounts of money to learn its secrets, acknowledges that Davis may not yet have attained OT III. At that level, which costs about $100,000 to attain, parishioners are finally told Scientology's origin story -- that a galactic overlord named Xenu brought surplus aliens to Earth and destroyed them, but the disembodied souls of those aliens are still among us, attached to people, and only Hubbard's "technology" -- a talking cure -- can remove them.

If Davis hasn't reached OT III, Beghe points out, it's possible that he's telling the truth when Roberts asked him about the alien souls and Davis responded that it was "unrecognizable." But as a church spokesman, it's hard to believe that he isn't aware how much Scientology's secrets are now part of popular culture.

Either way, Beghe says, Davis is well aware of the way Scientology splits up families, goes after critics, and charges people higher and higher amounts for superpowers that never materialize.

"You stand up there and lie and cover up something that is evil, that is going to take its toll," Beghe says.

Comments (94) Write Comment
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  • Tommy Davis
  • Jason Beghe
  • Church of Scientology
  • Scientology
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Comments (94)

Markay Bayan says:

"Oh my God, what have they done to this guy.’”
I believe this was just about everybody's reaction.
When I first saw tommy a few years ago, I remembered thinking "what a shame, such a nice looking boy."
Now he looks aged well beyond his young years and there is something sinister, cold and empty in his eyes.
He looks terrible.

Thank you yet again for speaking out Jason Beghe!!!
I hope your words get through to that poor soul and help open his eyes to what they are doing to him.

Oh also, technically, he wasn't lying when he said that scientologists to not believe in "alien ghost parasites." BUT they do believe in Body Thetans, whose description to us non-scis would sound very much like "alien ghost parasites."

It seems to be a very typical practice for Scientologists to use semantics as an avoidance method when it comes to things they’d rather not discuss.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 6:16PM
David Mudkips says:

I have to agree -- Tommy looked absolutely horrible. I couldn't believe this was the same kid from the BBC video.

It's not just that he looks awful, either. He was totally off his game. His lying isn't even polished or quick-witted these days. He just looked like a complete ass.

Back to the RFP, methinks.

Dude: FOLLOW BEGHE'S LEAD AND GET THE HELL OUT.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 6:48PM
MightyTiny says:

It's great to have Jason speaking out so openly. And Davis has taken on something of a look of a movie villain. I guess you have to kill something inside to be able to lie so blatantly for an organization which you must know, at some level, to be sinister.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 6:54PM
Aerial Song says:

Tommy looked like he's just feeling completely sad and full of grief. You can see that he's a nice guy but just full of sadness and misery.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 6:58PM
jason2 says:

I met Beghe years ago and he looks fruity in his interviews now. He should be the last one being critical.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 7:16PM
Anne says:

After seeing Davis stalking the BBC and lying on CNN, and then reading about him harassing Jenna Miscavige-Hill, recently-"blown" niece of the cult's leader, I thought he was a complete villain as well.

Jason Beghe's comments really hit home, actually. He has become a robot, and exactly the same thing happened to Rinder. I feel very sorry for Davis now, especially since he has to work for the notoriously abusive David Miscavige. My heart goes out to him, and I hope he finds some inner strength.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 7:20PM
Anonymous says:

Great work Tony and thank you Jason for your honesty.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 7:33PM
TerreyO says:

Good article.

I miss my old boy friend Tommy Davis he used to much more handsome when we spooned with my cock in his ass.

in b4 terryo

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 7:57PM
Jack says:

http://faq.scientology.org/discon.htm

No disconnection, eh? It's right on their site. Idiots, can't even lie right.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 8:06PM
Betty Swollocks says:

I remember when there was a pilot shot down during Desert Storm, and the Iraqis put him on TV to "confess," and he was blinking out Morse code for "torture."

Watching Tommy, I wonder if he's blinking out, "Please help me... Please help me..."

I've never seen him before, and have no idea who he is, but just watching him on this piece of footage... It's crazy... It's obvious that something very very bad has happened to him, and I feel sorry for him.

If this is what scientology does to people, OMG... That's ENOUGH and it will STOP.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 8:13PM
Betty Swollocks says:

I remember when there was a pilot shot down during Desert Storm, and the Iraqis put him on TV to "confess," and he was blinking out Morse code for "torture."

Watching Tommy, I wonder if he's blinking out, "Please help me... Please help me..."

I've never seen him before, and have no idea who he is, but just watching him on this piece of footage... It's crazy... It's obvious that something very very bad has happened to him, and I feel sorry for him.

If this is what scientology does to people, OMG... That's ENOUGH and it will STOP.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 8:14PM
keekeeleekee says:

Thank you to Tony Ortega, The Villiage Voice and Jason Beghe.

The church of scientology wasn't fooling a soul with those lies Tommy was telling.

The jig is up cos.

The first one to talk gets immunity - the rest go to jail

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 8:25PM
psyborgue says:

Thank you, Jason, for telling it like it is. I only hope your words reach Tommy.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 8:41PM
Terryeo says:

Why hasn't any government agency raided one of these RPF camps yet? There are videos of ex-scientologists confirming purchases of black market military weaponry which and then held at these prison camps, particularly "Gold Base" in Hemet California.

You can literally see sniper-nests carved into the hillside. This is heavy stuff.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 9:03PM
C_Van says:

I'm glad Jason Beghe said all of this and congratulate the Village Voice for the great story.

I know it was early in the morning in California when the CNN piece was taped, but I thought the same thing when seeing the piece - "What have they done to this guy?" One side of his face just didn't look "right". Tommy, blow. Now. Before it gets even worse. And take the people in SP Hall with you.

Jason & Village Voice, you guys are full of win.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 9:29PM
johnhappygamebuyer says:

Please Jason, tell us what you really think.

Well said Jason and Tony, once again.

And where is the mainstream media regarding the blue asbestos found on the Freewinds by authorities a couple of weeks ago, and the ex Scientology members saying the COS knew about it for over 20 years? By any standards, that is blockbuster news. Countless celebrities have been on that ship.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 9:37PM
Janes Lightfield says:

Want some 'scientific' evidence for Tommy Davis' untruthfulness in the interview? He blinked his eyes over 90 times during the interview- about 3 times more often than a person telling the truth would have blinked. Poor man, the cult trots him out of prison camp long enough to make a pathetic fool of himself on national TV.

Thank you so much Village Voice for continuing to keep the story alive!

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 9:51PM
wontsayanon says:

Tommy Davis' told CNN that people should look on Scientology's website if they have questions. Here the lie is evident because on Scientology's own website: http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH11_4.HTM

The disconnection policy is as clear as can be.

"There are two stable data which anyone has to have, understand and know are true in order to obtain results in handling the person connected to suppressives.

These data are:

1. That all illness in greater or lesser degree and all foul-ups stem directly and only from a PTS condition.

2. That getting rid of the condition requires three basic actions: (A) Discover; (B) Handle or (C) Disconnect."

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 10:09PM
johnhappygamebuyer says:

Please Jason, tell us what you really think.

Well said Jason and Tony, once again.

And where is the mainstream media regarding the blue asbestos found on the Freewinds by authorities a couple of weeks ago, and the ex Scientology members saying the COS knew about it for over 20 years? By any standards, that is blockbuster news. Countless celebrities have been on that ship.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 10:14PM
patty says:

Tommy Davis does look beaten down, because he is! Sad but true. Anne Archer wake up and take care of your son, both of you get the heck out of that cult and soon.

Thanks Jason for speaking the truth for so many!!!

Scientology is far worse than people think and are lead to believe. As Jason said and many agree it is "destructive and is a rip-off".

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 10:20PM
Terryeo says:

Beghe is beginning to sound just like others who have refused to do their qualification action. Same song, another verse, same words, colorful curses. The Church says something like "The sky is blue with a few clouds". Beghe says something like "The sky is filled with threatening clouds, a small piece of blue is 'way over there".

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 10:56PM
Jeff Mudkip says:

If Tommy Davis didn't know about OT 3 then that is chilling in its own right. Here is a spokesman for a religion whose critics know more about its doctrine than the spokesman does.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 10:59PM
David Mudkips says:

Wow! JB and Tony Ortega both have balls of steel!

It's good to see some people are finally starting to report the facts unafraid of Scientology's scare tactics.

You have a Legion of fans out here supporting you.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 11:13PM
Joe says:

Very nice article. Nice to hear from Jason Beghe once again. The more ex-Scientologists who come out, the more truth we hear from them, but ofcourse they're all hired the Psychiatrists.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 11:21PM
Theta Omega says:

Does anyone actually know what level Tommy Davis has got to in the organization? Please, if you have info, let us know. This is critical to our handling of his problems. We want to help him so badly. Clearly things are not going well for him, and he's going to make himself sick. We want to make things better.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 11:27PM
DeadFace says:

Tommy Davis says there is no policy of "Disconection", and says to get info from the source, the source being the Church of Scientology.

So I did. And while it says it's "voluntary", it DOES EXIST, the info is on THEIR OWN FREAKIN' WEBSITE:
http://faq.scientology.org/page40.htm

Tommy Davis. Official spokesman. Either officially ignorant, or officially a liar. Or both.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 14 2008 @ 11:47PM
Another Surfer says:

Thank you for publishing this article and thank you, Jason, for speaking out. You sure do tell it like it is.

There may be some "plausible deniability" with regard to Tommy's comments saying that removing alien beings from his body was "unrecognizable."

But IF you give him that deniability (what level IS he?) -- it only further proves the point that scientology does not reveal it's Genesis story until one has paid tens of thousands of dollars to learn of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvDifn_dSnU

Imagine if you had to pay tens of thousands of dollars to learn about Adam and Eve as a Christian (easiest example I can think of).

So -- it's kind of a no-win situation... heh.

Here is an important piece of testimony from David Miscavige's own niece after seeing the Tommy Davis interview on CNN: http://www.exscientologykids.com/eskforums/viewtopic.php?t=1185

Interesting tidbits from her post:

"The day after Dallas and I went to the April 12th protest, Dallas’s parents were calling him saying that they wanted to meet. They said that I could not be there.

So Dallas went to meet with them and he arrived at their house. His brother was there too.

They sat down to talk and the first subject was the protest that happened the day before. It came out that they had just come from a meeting at the San Diego Church of Scientology with Tommy Davis, Jenny Linson/Devocht, Angie Blankenship and Jessica Rodriguez/Feshbach (yes Katie Holmes auditor).

They showed them pictures of us at the protest, with details of what our signs said. They told them that we were having meetings with Graham Berry and Tory Christman and showed them pictures with us meeting at the protest. They said how Graham and Tori were criminals and we were associating and we had been meeting with them. Even though I am sure this is complete B.S., the day of the protest is the only day in both of our lives, that we had ever seen or had any form of communication with either of them.

Then Jessica told them that they saw us going to eat with a member of anonymous which means that we are members of anonymous which is a criminal organization. When Dallas’s parents asked them how they knew who we went to dinner with, Jessica realized she slipped and Tommy said, “Because we were having the Anon member followed!” "

I don't want to take up a whole lotta space here -- click the link above to read what David Miscavige's niece has to say about hubbard's Disconnection Policy.

She is one of thousands (or who knows, maybe tens of thousands) of people who are victims of it.

scientology wants to talk about "hate crimes?" Oy, don't get me started. It has an over 50 year history of committing hate crimes against anyone who questions hubbard's "philosophy."

Google "scientology" -- you don't even need to get specific -- to read what people have experienced at the hands of this "religion."

I am worried about Tommy Davis -- he DOES look pretty banged up. It has to be hard to be in such terrible denial.

Another Surfer

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 12:14AM
Chuck Beatty says:

Thanks Tony! You really get Scientology, thanks! Village Voice is right on top of the frontpeople for Scientology. Tommy Davis, Scientology frontperson, will probably hang in there, since his family are staunch followers, as are all his friends. Scientology is his whole world. I think long range, if Scientology is able to make 2 changes, it would improve it's long range success. 1) Amnesty all the tens of thousands of ex followers who Scienotlogy has labeled "suppressive persons", because doing an Amnesty would result in allowing reconnection to all persons who have been disconnected, so an Amnesty is a fast immediate and thorough solution to the disconnection problem. 2) Allow Scientologists of all "case" levels to freely discuss the Xenu genocide and the "body thetans" theology of Scientology. Those two problems, disconnection and free discussion by Scientology followers of the Xenu genocide/body thetans theology, are the two largest stumbling blocks keeping Scientology in its cult bubble world. Great reporting! Chuck Beatty, ex Sea Org staffer, 1975-2003, Pittsburgh, USA

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 12:33AM
Amy says:

Thanks Jason!! I couldn't agree with you more. I knew Tommy very well, as I first started my Sea Org career at CC Int. I know he is a good person, but to see him fall further and further out of valence and into his "Tommy Scientologist" valence is definitely disheartening. I think his days are numbered, and hopefully him and his wife can get out and make good for the lies they have told.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 1:19AM
Leilu says:

Thank you Jason for saying it like it is. It never ceases to amaze me just how easily lying comes to these guys. I feel much sadness for Tommy. This is a guy who is under so much pressure from David Miscaviage that he will do or say anything he is briefed to say because the consequences for failure are so, so bad. And by the way Tommy, as you are fully aware, there IS such a thing as disconnection because when I left the Sea Org my mother wrote me an actual "disconnection letter". I have not seen or heard from her in about 10years now.

Do yourself a favor; stop lying and listen to the nagging voice in your head telling you "something's wrong" and "this just isn't right". No failure in leaving dude, just failure in not actually doing anything to stop the gross violations going on at the top of the Organization and perpetuating the lies yourself. You're the one being set up to take the fall.

Oh and by the way, in case you're feeling like one of the big kids hanging out with Dave and Tom (although factually your party days are probably over after the Panorama fiasco), one day Tom will actually find out what is "really" going on behind the scenes, and he's going to get really, really upset. Truth and honesty will prevail in the end, so get ready for it.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 1:27AM
Pete says:

Here is my song parody for the OTIII level. It uses some scienospeak, here are the definitions:
wall of fire = OTIII level where you find out about Xenu
beetee = BT = "body thetan"
C/S = case supervisor
cans = electrodes for e-meter
WOG = non scientologist, derogatory slang
osuh = OSA or office of special affairs, scientology dirty trick department
oatee = OT for operating thetan, an advanced Scientologist

Wall of Horseshit (to the tune of Sound of Silence,
apologies to Simon and Garfunkel)

Hello Beetee my old friend,
I've come to audit you again.
Because in my space you've been creeping,
You and thousands like you are speaking,
Cause the implant Xenu planted in my brain,
Still remains
From Hubbard's wall, of fire.

Packed in ice and shipped through space,
More Beetee's than the human race.
Stuffed and H Bombed in the volcanos,
Beetees clumped together up the nose
T'ill I held the cans on the orders of my C/S,
What a mess,
It's Hubbard's Wall, of fire.

And in the confines of my head,
I audited those Beetee's dead.
I ordered each Beetee to say his name,
And then march out of my head in shame,
It's a story, with the WOGs I can never share,
Oatee's don't dare,
Reveal the wall, of fire.

"Fool!" said I, I've been so dumb,
In my head I've gotten numb.
Heed my warning, I beseech you,
Don't let yourself be suckered too,
But my words, on the Scienos deaf ears fell,
And echoed on the wall, of horseshit.


And the Scieno's borrowed and payed,
For the horseshit bridge Ron made.
And the Espee's hollered their warning,
Though the Osuh minions were swarming,
So the sign, saying "Ron is Xenu" would not
be seen,
Not too keen,
Over the wall, of horseshit.


Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 1:55AM
Plups says:

Jason's ability to communicate is extraordinary. I know he wishes only the best for Tommy Davis. Anyone who cares for the bloke has to wonder at what is happening to him. Unfortunately, by participating in the lies, Tommy is perpetuating the damage done by organized Scientology.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 2:21AM
Mark Abian says:

Jason Beghe speaks out again! The man is a breath of fresh air.

Tommy Davis did look like the shadow of himself on CNN compared to the BBC video. I don't know what the cult has done to him but it looks like he wouldn't be able to stand much more of it.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 3:48AM
andy d says:

Jason Beghe is fearless and his compassion for this guy shows through.People like Tommy Davis are broken by Scientology and turned into liars who will say anything in order to try and protect their cult from the truth.
Now if Jason could reach some of those high profile Celebrity Scientologist and get them to see the truth,that would be great!Tom,Katie,John,Kirstie,Beck-you guys know that Jason is speaking the truth!Leave the destructive cult behind and reclaim your lives!
Join the worldwide protests against the cult on June 14th at a Scientology centre near you!
http://www.whyweprotest.net

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 4:03AM
Leif says:

I first encountered Tommy Davies through the BBC documentary, and he came off as incredibly hostile, confrontational and downright creepy. I can't believe Scientology would choose to put such a person in any public relations role.

If what Jason Beghe says is true and there's actually a kind, caring human being behind the facade, it only goes to show what Scientology "tech" will get you.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 5:05AM
WolfyRik says:

Nice interview. I agree about Tommy though, it's sad to see someone lying like that, when by all accounts they were probably a nice person once. I think Jasons's right, it's costing Tommy his soul. The sad thing is he probably knows it.

Jason Beghe rocks by the way!

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 5:37AM
Alcanon says:

I'm surprised Mr. Ortega could hear Mr. Beghe's answers over the horrible, pervasive clanging of Jason's giant brass ones.

Fear not, Jason: you saw through the con job and got out, which means that Davis can too. Thanks again for speaking out.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 7:36AM
John Smith says:

Great article. Thanks for keeping their feet to the fire.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 7:52AM
Anonymous says:

Another life destroyed.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 9:44AM
stivbator says:

I wasn't sure if he was lying the whole time or just part of the time. He may have actually believed part of the misinformation he was dealing out. He does look like he's been tortured compared to what he looked like last year.

I hope his parents have the decency to see what's happening to him and get him out before it's too late.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 10:02AM
Zenster says:

Once again, thank you Jason Beghe.
In a culture that is so celebrity-centric, such as ours, your words have great power. Please alwaya be there to refute scientology lies and brainwashing and speak the truth. And thank you Tony Ortega and The Village Voice for being a forum for free speech. Our Founding Fathers would be proud of you both.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 10:05AM
Mark. A. Bian says:

Tommy Davis is yet another victim of the organization known as scientology. He just doesn't know it yet. "Acceptable truths" (known as lies to non-scientologists) are what he is trained to spew.

He looks terrible, lies transparently to anyone that has researched into the history and ongoing abuses of scientology, and probably thinks that he's doing the right thing (for scientology).

The whole situation is sad, and I hope he bumps into the walls of his Truman Show and realizes this before his health declines even further than it appears to have already.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 10:46AM
Ann says:

When I saw it I thought that he looked like a prisoner of war. Like someone who hasn't slept properly in weeks or longer, has been subjected to mind altering techniques, and was suddenly dragged out of that situation and dumped in front of a camera, knowing there will be hell to pay if he says anything his leader doesn't approve of.

If it's true that he was in the Rehabilitation Project Force, that's probably exactly what happened.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 11:39AM
Mike says:

All of you Scientology "experts" really know what you are talking about -- not. You are all critical of Scientology yet know one has mentioned why it cannot be true? Experts once thought the universe revolved around the earth. Now we find out that the earth is on the outer edge of our galaxy and we are one in an infinite number of galaxies.

What do we know or understand regarding the spirit or our soul? So why are Hubbard's "stories" or theories so far fetched?

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 12:01PM
bgodley says:

Hi Mike!

Nice to hear from another Scientologist like myself around here!

By the way, though, the dominant scientific theory holds for a finite number of galaxies in the universe. Otherwise I agree with you, we should be allowed to believe whatever we wish to believe.

However, I do not condone the obvious deception that the management is trying to foist on the American people right now. We all know that disconnection is real, but Tommy is forced to lie about it on national TV. How is that helping our cause?

This is the strategy that is failing. It is high time that the management of Scientology reforms, stops the lying, and stops the abuses. All of the evils of the management of scientology are out-tech. David Miscavige has been squirrelinig the tech and pulling in all of the entheta, and HE NEEDS TO STEP DOWN NOW.

But, he's subverted the RTC and Sea Org and rules all the orgs with an iron fist.

David Miscavige is the nightmare that L Ron Hubbard foreshadowed to when he said,
"Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's 1984? Yes,yes, that's wonderful. That could be the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence."

David Miscavige has removed or subverted all of Hubbards well intention checks against abuse of the tech.

Scientologists are the only ones who can truly clean up this mess, and I for one am on the case!
I simply ask anyone who call themselves a Scientologist to examine ALL the data. Yes, even the data that you are told to avoid. When did Hubbard ever say NOT to read a book? The same should said for websites.
Don't let others tell YOU what is entheta!
Decide for yourselves!

bgodley, with eyes wide open, thanks to Anonymous.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 12:43PM
David M says:

Mike: I won't be feeding the trolls with your above comment. All collaborative research into Hubbard's tech has shown no effect.

Thank you Tony Ortega for your continued insightful and powerful coverage.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 12:52PM
SteveDaly says:

"What do we know or understand regarding the spirit or our soul? So why are Hubbard's "stories" or theories so far fetched?"

No one argues Hubbard's stories. What is being contested is the actions and practiced doctrines of the management of this "church." Honestly, what parish forces freeloader debt on donations? What eccelsiastical society practices policies of harassing litigation to silence critics? What diocese keeps folders of confessions from its followers? What religious body has it's own personal "rehabilitation" camp to force members to be put to hard labor and depravation of food, sleep, and communication with the outside?

The Freezoners practice Hubbard's beliefs -freely-, and they too are harassed by the cult of Scientology.

No, this is not about the Spiratual state of mind of a pop fiction writer. This is about the abuses of human rights committed by those in power over this "church".

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 12:56PM
kaos says:

Mike,

Let's see if we can be clear on something. Most of us couldn't care less about Elron's theories and whether you are blind enough to believe them. For most of us those are simply humorous diversions. Oh hell, you caught us, we laugh our asses off just thinking you guys really believe that shit!

But what we protest about is that your "church" goes to incredible lengths to deny parishioners their basic human rights. OK, now this is where you deny that ever happens. Go ahead and tell us how the "church" has never forced an abortion, never deprived any child of an education or even time to be with their parents, never held a member for 17 days against her will as she died of thirst and starvation while being eaten by roaches, never made family and friends disconnect from one another. The list goes on, and all your bullshit can't make it not true. You cannot discount THOUSANDS of people all telling the same stories!

What you don't get is that we are not intolerant of someone's religion, we are intolerant when that religion performs one human rights abuse after another on orders from the "church's" management. Get a fuckin' clue!

Kaos

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 1:19PM
longcat war says:

tommy, if you are reading this, please get out now. jason's right. you look haggard, spiritually exhausted.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 3:53PM
Mike says:

Like I said before: "You guys have no idea what you are talking about" and to "former or ex-Scientologists" you should know better.

1. Anyone joining the Sea Org or church staff thinking it will be a "walk-in-the-park" is sadly mistaken. People know from the start exactly what they are getting into. Long hours, little pay and extremely high standards are the norm. You voluntarily give up any aspect of mainstream "normalcy" when you join staff or the Sea Org. You dedicate your life to the Org and the people it serves. For every ex-staff member on this thread, there are 10 current staff members who will not give up any aspect of their new lives for anything in the world. How do you think the Church keeps expanding? 7,700 churches worldwide. They "man" these orgs with new staff members. There are people in just about every org right now wanting to join staff. The ex-staffers who are out there simply could not cut it, and in my estimation, are trying to justify their own failures or just trying to get their own 15 minutes of fame.

2. Disconnection: Tommy was not being evasive on this policy. He said it was not as the interviewer "characterized it". This was a 2 minute interview with no chance of any detailed explanation. Disconnection, in Scientology, is a last resort. It is done when the person has someone connected to him that is making it impossible for them to continue in their chosen philisophical pursuit of Scientology. You either "handle or disconnect" and unless that person is really evil, you may go through many, many handlings (for example I had to disconnect from a drug dealer). In most cases the handling is sufficient. It truly is tragic when disconnection involves a family member. But, if disconnection occurs, then that particular family member is just as responsible because basically all they have to say is:"OK, we agree to disagree. Continue on your path..." Disconnection in Scientology is similar to a "born again" Christian foresaking his former life or what the original Buddah did on his path to enlightenment or what successful people do when they discover certain individuals in their life are holding them down. One should read all the LRH policy letters regarding this issue and not the "snippets" that are being supplied here by these "dime store experts."

3. Lastly, I do not doubt that, in some cases, individual staff members say things that are outragous or inappropriate. That cannot be helped or stopped in any organization. Just because some staffer mentions something to a fellow does not mean that it is "Church policy". Whether it is sex or time off or your education those aspects are covered by Church policy, which you agree to follow, when you join staff. If a staff member is "suprised", "shocked" or "intimidated" they only have to look at their own actions. If they are doing their job then no one will ever bother them -- ever. Your job is monitored by statistics. If your "stats" are up then you are virtually untaouchable. That is how the org works. Pure and simple. You are responsible for your own condition.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 4:27PM
kaos says:

Mike,

You're every bit as much a damn liar as is Tommy. No one here believes your BS. Just because you fell for it doesn't mean everyone else will!

Don't you have a tree somewhere to run around or some rocks to haul?

Kaos

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 4:50PM
Mike says:

Koas said:"What you don't get is that we are not intolerant of someone's religion, we are intolerant when that religion performs one human rights abuse after another on orders from the "church's" management."

Kaos, it is you who are spewing Bullshit.

If you truly believed in what you wrote above you would have turned your attention to the Catholic church and their harboring of pedophiles. If you are such a proponent of free speech then you would be attacking Viacom for banning Bunker outright rather than Scientology for exercising their own Constitutionally endowed property rights. Scientology has done nothing except protect itself from critics who continue to recite hearsay (anonymous hearsay at that), half-truths and out-and-out lies as facts.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 5:14PM
Mike says:

Koas: to quote a wise man: "I am rubber and you are glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.."

Your response is so typical of most Scientology critics. You only want to believe the pathetic ramblings of some poor "victim". You hear 10 people drone "Scientology is evil" but you completely ignore the millions of happy Scientologists!

You say you want Scientology to allow Freedom of Speech, yet you scream when they excercise their own legal right to protect their own copywritten property, a freedom also guaranteed by the Constitution.

You say LRH's tech has never been proven, well frankly, I don't care. Other than Scientologists there is not another esteemed body of knowledge that can honestly evaluate an auditing session. You had NY Firemen, who couldn't get out of bed, do the Purif and then go back on the job -- while all the medicos sat back and scratched their collective heads.

You can do whatever the hell it is that you do. Scientology is a religion and there is nothing you can do about it.

Now be a good boy, stop the name calling and go back to your home room, recess is over!

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 5:42PM
gartrip says:

Blech. These people are so creepy and are obviously brain dead idiots. I'll never understand how seemingly smart people like Ann Archer and others can be attracted to a crazy cult. Clearly they've been lured in and are being blackmailed. Obviously, it's a sex cult for closetcases like Miscavige and others.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 5:42PM
Markay Bayan says:

Mike, thank you for providing yet another wonderful example of that "slippery scientology talk."

"Disconnection: Tommy was not being evasive on this policy. He said it was not as the interviewer 'characterized it'." - Mike

See now, it must be understood that scientologists work hard constructing their responses to avoid technically telling lies, the goal is to just avoid tell the truth.

Kind of like when they say "We do not worship xenu." That doesn't mean you don't BELIEVE in xenu.
Or when a spokesperson said "No lawyer ever delivered a letter." That doesn't mean a letter wasn't SENT by a lawyer.

Nice "communication tech," no?

So Mike, I guess you figure you can sleep well at night knowing that your organization isn't technically composed of liars. But I've come to suspect that you are just fine with the fact that it is filled with deceitfulness, dishonesty and manipulativeness. In fact, it seems many of you take a great deal of pride in using these and other manipulation methods in attempt to control and "handle" people.

It doesn't work so well when too many people are aware of those tricks though, does it? I mean ANYBODY can learn all about those tricks here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/CoS/
The stuff on "Reporter-TRS" is especially interesting.

BTW, Mike, you are sounding pretty enturbulated and low on the tone scale.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 5:52PM
gartrip says:

Blech. These people are so creepy and are obviously brain dead idiots. I'll never understand how seemingly smart people like Ann Archer and others can be attracted to a crazy cult. Clearly they've been lured in and are being blackmailed. Obviously, it's a sex cult for closetcases like Miscavige and others.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 6:02PM
kaos says:

Mike,

Millions of happy Scientologists? Dude, you really do believe everything your BS CULT tells you. Try about 50-55,000. And now you say there are only about TEN former members who are complaining? I guess you have that anti-scientology filter firmly attatched to your internet access, huh? Do a little reality based research because right now you sound like a totally uneducated, mindless pud.

I never mentioned LRH tech, not once. But I do believe it's fucking hilarious that you fish believe we're all infected by body thetans and that's where all the worlds problems originate. It's ROFL funny that you believe a 75 million year old bad, bad intergalatic meanie created all those thetans by blowing up the citizens of overpopulated planets in our volcanos here on Earth. Do you realize how totally fucking retarded that sounds? Even a little bit?

I also never spoke of freedom of speach, not once. But you bring up a very good point, why does a "church" sell it's scriptures? Why would a "religion" who wants only to clear the whole planet charge $350,000.00 per person to do so? I guess you really only want to clear less than 1/10th of 1% of the population, because that's about how many could actually afford to "go clear." You must have alot of money, otherwise you won't make it all the way "over the bridge!"

Yeah, I believe that the pedophile priests in the Catholic church are evil. But that is a church hundreds of times larger than the CULT you belong to. And the number of victimized parishioners in the Catholic church is a fraction of the number abused by your much smaller CULT. So, per capita, a scientologist has hundreds of times more opportunity of being abused in your CULT than in the Catholic church. PERIOD!

There's nothing I can do about Scientology being considered a religion? Bet again little man. I'm 51, I retired at 47 so I have plently of time and resolve to help the government find its way out of the blackmail the Co$ used to gain tax exemption in the first place. Your CULT is about to undergo the most significant change in its history. Do you think we are not having an impact. That Jason Beghe, Larry Brennan, Lawrence Woodcraft and several other high profile ex-members are speaking out right now is your death nell. Wait until Rinder gets pissed enough to talk and Tommy blows because of all DM's abuse. You guys are fucked!

Kaos

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 6:29PM
bgodley says:

Hi again, Mike!

The subject here is Scientology's abuses, not the Catholic Church, nor Viacom, nor Rwanda, Tibet, China, Myanmar, or puppy abuse. I really doubt that Anonymous is going to take up any other cause any time soon.

Believe me, early on, I tried...

That's right, not long ago, as a Scientologist, I employed the same tactics on many message boards as you are practicing here. Didn't work for me, not gonna work for you.

But I feel I must offer you this warning:
Every time I lied, I damaged only myself, because what is true is what is true for me, and I found out that constantly telling "acceptable truths" (lies) erodes my own perception of what is true. This is what is happening right now to Tommy Davis, just like it happened to Mike Rinder, and all the other ex-staff.

I also got tired of living in fear of entheta. Guess what? It doesn't hurt! Yes, some of it is a bit outlandish, but so much of it rings true, and if you really know what the ex-staff are saying, you'd have to agree.
(Unless you really aren't staff, because if you've been on staff like me, then you'd know how accurate the ex-staff stories really are.)

My guess is that you haven't personally read any of the ex-staff stories out there, so you're refuting things that you don't even know about! Funny, because that's what you accuse Anonymous of doing, isn't it?
But you're getting your stats up by doing it, and that's what really matters to you right now, right?
Well, that's too bad, because, you're not helping anybody.
Really, you're not.

The more you know, the more you know!

bgodley, with eyes wide open, thanks to Anonymous.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 6:33PM
Markay Bayan says:

bgodley, I must say that I do kinda miss debating you though, you were quite good at it and convinced a lot of anons to step up their debating skills and be extra diligent about backing up their data.

But, I'm glad to see your writing and debating skills put to a more constructive use for both scientology AND anonymous.

Thank You.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 8:11PM
Anon Portland Oregon says:

Dear Village Voice Editors, News Staff, and others:

Thank you for your detailed and incisive coverage of Scientology! I have attached a letter sent to Willamette Week, an independent weekly in Portland, OR, that you and your readers may find interesting.

Best Regards,
-Anonymous from Portland, Oregon

_____________________________________

Dear Jason Howe and WWeek Editors:

Thank you for taking the time to cover our recent protest. I am hoping your news team will continue to consider the perspective and motivation behind our actions:

Firstly, all protesters are gravely concerned about Scientology's practices that discourage (and, quite frankly, attack) personal thought and dialogue. Within its membership, Scientology actively cultivates a 'siege mentality': their own materials actively promote and advocate an 'us vs. them' worldview.

Examples of this mindset can be seen in the Tom Cruise video:
--Cruise's mention of KSW ("Keep Scientology Working") is a "dog-whistle-politics" statement telling members to never question what Scientology leadership tells them, period.

--His comment on a world free of "SPs" (Suppressive People) is troubling. You can find information on what this means from Scientology materials that are publicly available. In sum, if you've ever criticized (or thought critical things) about Scientology, congratulations, you're an SP. History tells us that this mode of thinking can be quite harmful: replace 'witches' and 'non-believers' with 'suppressive people' in history studies about the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials and you'll see what I'm concerned about.

--Gwen and other members of Scientology's PR arm have previously noted that these points are "taken out of context." That said, any reasonable individual can hear these points, consider them within the context of other publicly available material regarding Scientology's practics and understand that these concerns are more than trivial.

Secondly, Scientology's tactic of "Fair Game" (their term) is one that should concern anyone with an interest in promoting free speech, free belief and the right for news media and the public to openly study (and criticize, if they so choose) Scientology. While Scientology will claim that this tactic is no longer employed, their actions speak otherwise. Of many, two notable examples:

--BBC: In the recent past, their "Panorama" documentary team was deprived of reasonable rights to privacy during their study of Scientology practices. I suspect that most any journalist would not expect to be followed by private investigators back to their hotels and accosted in their lobbies. You may see footage of this on many Internet video sharing sites.

--Time Magazine: After publishing a detailed investigative cover article on Scientology ("The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power"), their company was sued for libel. Years (and over $3 million dollars of Time-Warner's defense resources) later, Scientology lost their case in US appellate court. The lead journalist, Richard Behar, was harassed with Fair Game tactics, but subsequently garnered critical acclaim and awards for his work, including the Conscience-in-Media Award from the American Society of Journalists and Authors. This prize was co-awarded to author Paulette Cooper, whose tales of harassment and suffering are well-documented (see "Operation Freakout," evidence which was discovered during the course of an FBI investigation into
"Operation Snow White"). N.B. Other journalists writing articles critical of Scientology have shared the same Pulizer Prize awarded to Bob Woodward for his work on the Watergate scandal.

In your article, Ms. Barnard is quoted as saying that “[she] celebrate[s] their freedom of speech, but it only takes one of these little guys to be off his Ritalin and then he stuffs his daddy’s gun in his pocket and starts blasting people.” While I'm gratified that we share an appreciation for free speech, her inflammatory, straw-man statement about protestors simply seeks to confirm Scientology's continued practice of defaming their critics with baseless fear-mongering.

One of our participants was asked if he was "doing the dirty work" for some unknown leader. It should be noted that our group requires no leaders: as history has shown, the values of good ideas like freedom of thought and expression are more than powerful enough to motivate individuals to do things that are positive for all members of our community. Ironically, our activities that Scientology calls "enturbulation" actually ends up supporting the notion that people's rights should be protected and respected--including the rights of Scientologists.

On the heels of WWeek's Pulitzer Prize winning expose by Nigel Jaquiss, I would certainly hope that your news team would take time to study our concerns and Scientology's practices more thoroughly in the near future.

Sincere regards,
-A Concerned Citizen of Our Fair City

Posted On: Thursday, May. 15 2008 @ 9:11PM
David says:

For more information on $cientology's lies, go to:

xenu.net
enturbulation.org
exscientologykids.org
youfoundthecard.com

$cientology is a dangerous cult!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:43AM
Mike says:

When did I lie? You guys are great at evaluating everybody else. All you have to do is listen to the tape and read the material.

If the Sea Org is so bad then why does Scientology keep expanding? If the RPF is so terrible then why don't local law enforcement step in, like they did with that sect in Utah? It is simply because the police are used to hearing BS! And that is what you guys have. 10 or 15 malcontents. Why don't they all get together and file a class action suit? get it all out in the open? Oh, maybe because it all isn't true. Get over yourselves, get a life. You are the one that is going to grind down. In most Scientology churches the walls are lined with commendations from local community leaders, state and local political officers praising the contributions of the Church. Jason Beghe, in his comments, just reminded everyone that he is a turncoat. This is how he repays the people that stood by his bedside for 3 nights? Most people do not have a psychotic hatred of Scientology like you guys do. This enturbulation that you are causing was actually predicted a year ago in a breifing that I recieved from a group called the International Association of Scientologists (IAS). They said that basically a "shit storm was coming our way so be prepared". Scientology is/was and will ever be prepared for the likes of Anonymous and those that want to destroy the basic fundamental right of religous freedom. Time and time again Scientology has withstood the onslaught of the oppressors and has won. Someone mentioned that Scientology actually 'Blackmailed" the IRS. NO ONE blackmails the IRS, no one. They succeeded because when push comes to shove, there is no case against Scientology. It is a smoke screen.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 1:37AM
Jane Doe says:

Other religions doing something bad doesn't make it ok for another religion to do something bad. The Catholic church took care of their issue and punishment was handed down accordingly.

Scientology hasn't been punished NEARLY enough for it's crimes against it's members and critics.

STOP USING OTHER RELIGIONS as an excuse as to why Scientology some how gets a "pass" on being complete poison to it's members and critics.

We're not in grade school. Because one kid doesn't something, that doesn't mean it's ok for you to do it.

"Scientology is a religion and there is nothing you can do about it."
Oh yeah? Try me.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 1:59AM
Kaos says:

Mike,

One day, you like so many others will be looking to "offload." Just know anonymous will be there for you after all the lies you spew, just as directed by your church, no longer ring true. Make no mistake, everyone on staff eventually gets so abused for so long that they look for a way out. Jason left despite being one of the "golden" members. Others are treated much more harshly.

I know of a member of your "church" in my city who was recently incapacitated and bedridden. While several friends and family members did their best to get by to help her more help was needed. As a parishioner of the "Church" of Scientology, she felt she could depend on her church to render aid just as members of real churches receive everyday. To her surprize she was "offloaded" despite spending many thousands of dollars in "fixed donations." Yeah, some church! Once the money runs out so does the support, get a clue.

Her personal story is one reason we do what we do, despite your CULT telling you otherwise. You attend a CULT that instructs you, in "church" documents, to lie to anyone not a member. That fact is well documented, so why should ANYONE believe one word that spews from your mouth? Your CULT'S ethics pertain only to how you deal with its management, not others, and nearly everybody knows it. You "church" is absolutely NOT growing, despite your claim of MILLIONS of members. That's just another lie the CULT forces down your throat. One day we all hope you wake to the reality that you've thrown years and thousands of dollars into the money pit that is the "Church" of Scientology and put an end to it. Please also address my contention that your "church" wants only to clear the whole planet but yet it charges many thousands of times more than most people can afford to do so. Oh, that's right, YOU CAN'T JUSTIFY THAT BS!

Kaos

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 9:21AM
Mike says:

Jane Doe, et al: You say "Try me!" Well...Try! Make my day (to coin a phrase)! What the heck have you guys been doing for the last 6 months -- with little or no effect. Jason Beghe and the Neice are already forgotten figures in the Wonderland that is the US media. They had their 15 minutes.

Now, even the most guible know that web sites are not a good source for unbiased information, especially those that are "anti-" something.

But what is really amazing is this:
-- What more do you know than the IRS?
-- than the Federal Adminsttrative Court of Germany?
-- than the State Dept. of the US Federal Government?
-- than the National Court of Spain?
-- What more do you know than the European Court of Human Rights?
-- What more do you know than the South African Revenue Service?
-- The national court of Portugal?

These are just a few of entities that have investigated Scientology and either granted them tax exemption as a Religion or granted them status as an official Religion, ALL done after the Freakout-Snow-white-Cooper incidents.

Why? Because after all is said and done these professional investigators, people who do this for a living -- not a psychotic obsession, find that there is no substance to all the false accusations, half-truths and hearsay that is bantered about on the internet.

Blaming current Scientology leadership for Freakout-Snow-white-Cooper is like blaming John McCane for Watergate. People associated with the Guardians Office from that day had to undergo extensive Ethics handling with the church if they wanted to continue being Scientologists. Some didn't quite make it, because of the extensive damage they did to the churches reputation. And lest you think it was just a show or a political exercise, even the beloved Mary Sue Hubbard was affected.

Anonymous hides because they do not want the responsibility of disclosure (the libel and slander). They do not want people to know their own selfish vested interests (Can anyone say Big Pharma or the APA?). Nor do they want people to see the hypocrisy of their own actions (how many of you guys are guilty of crimes?).

Suppressive people like to do their work hidden in the background, while honest men toil in the daylight.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:03PM
Markay Bayan says:

Mike, your arguments are unbelievably weak for a scientologist. Have you not taken any of the communication courses yet?
You sound like you believe anything and everything the CoS tells you without question. I guess you figure since they call themselves a "church," it MUST be true. Is that your logic?

Your "church" has a REALLY nasty reputation, Mike. Why is that? Because people are lying? Now how does the CoS manage to offend people so much that they would feel inclined to "lie" about how awful it is? Because LRH says that people don't like to see an organization that "helps" people succeed? Why did LRH have such a low opinion of the general public? Because they are under the influence of "the Merchants of Chaos?" Ah! Paranoia. Yup, LRH says people who don't approve of scientology are criminals who do not like to see people succeed. "If you don't agree with me, it's because you are a bad person."
Yeah, okay - that sounds like a "logical" argument!

Now Mike, why do YOU think the CoS has such a nasty reputation? Or did I get it about right?

You aren't going to last very long at this if you don't brush up your debate skills and learn to back up your claims with adequate 3rd party data references. You will probably become familiar with the phrase "pics, or it didn't happen" any time you fail to provide documentation, proof or evidence for your claims.

For example, can you provide proof that Scientology is currently raising it's membership and "expanding?"
Do you have any data or figures that were compiled by a non-scientology related, trusted and impartial source that we could refer to?
I bet you can't, but I dare you to try. Prove us ALL wrong and be "an hero."

BTW, sheltering funds in real-estate purchases (that tends to remain largely unoccupied) doesn't count as "expanding" in this case - just to be clear.

Good luck to you and thank you for playing.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:19PM
Kaos says:

Honest men? What have you smoked for lunch? You're CULT is the least honest organized "religion" on Earth. And your "scriptures" tell you to lie! What church does that?

We hide because of your well known harassment tactics, period. If your CULT weren't so secretive and vindictive you wouldn't have us at your door every month. If you didn't force SIX YEAR OLDS to toil like slaves you wouldn't be looking over your shoulder right now. If your "church" wasn't guilty of murder there would be no story. If you didn't force young women to get abortions our 15 minutes really would be up. But you assholes do those things and we'll be here until you stop.

If you're so honorable then why do you feel the need to lie to us? Why do your "scriptures" tell you to do so. You're just angry that you revere a FAT, POCK MARKED, PARANOID, PSYCHOPATHIC, MANIPULATIVE, DEAD BEAT, DRUG ABUSING SCIENCE FICTION WRITER and can't allow yourself to see the truth or you really will feel like the gullible shill you are!

I'm done with the banter, just because you can blackmail, harass and intimidate people doesn't make you a religion. But then Satanism is a religion too, I suppose and that's what LRH truly was, a GREEDY Satanist!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:36PM
Anónimo says:

Mike:
At first, I was hoping you would bring some real discussion to this box, heated, passionate but at least a little more rational than whant we have been getting from other scientolist professional article commenters, but then you said it all, you made clear that no scientologist can make a good debate about anything. And you want to know where you did it? You did when you started following your beloved tech.

"Anonymous hides because they do not want the responsibility of disclosure (the libel and slander). They do not want people to know their own selfish vested interests (Can anyone say Big Pharma or the APA?)."
Allways the big pharma and those damn psychs... You just don't get it that we are doing this on our own, that with don't need any association of big bad psychs to back us up or the money of a big pharma comp to continue to expose your lies, not everything is about money. Not surprinsingly, blaming the psychs for everything bad is part of your "religion"


"Nor do they want people to see the hypocrisy of their own actions (how many of you guys are guilty of crimes?)."

Why don't you just type "WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES!!!!!!!!!!?, it has the same effect in the people familiar with your tactics of bulbaiting(aka real life trolling), wich is none. Again, it is part of your beloved "Tech", every scientology critic is a criminal, and if Hubbard sayd so, it must be true.
If I were you, I would look further into your own crimes, like the ones your church is being tried for in Belgium and France.

"Suppressive people like to do their work hidden in the background, while honest men toil in the daylight."

Who the f*ck cares about being supressive? Only the members of your mafia like organization. suporessive person does not mean anything, it is just some buzzword your "profet" invented to look cool. I don't care if I'm not Kosher, I don't care if I'm Haram, why should I care if I am supressive? And more, some good people work the backgrounds, some times ir is the only way to gat things done.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 2:21PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

If the RPF is so terrible then why don't local law enforcement step in, like they did with that sect in Utah?

So, you aren't denying the existence of the RPF? Good. And the reason law enforcement hasn't intervened is because a very strong airtight case has to be built when you raid and effectively "shut down" a legally recognized tax exempt "religion". Whuzzat smell? Smellz liek moar sworn affidavits iz coemin!!

10 or 15 malcontents. Why don't they all get together and file a class action suit? get it all out in the open?

10 or 15? Are you serious? I could name 10 or 15 right now:

Tory Christman
Larry Brennan
Steve Fishman
Arnie Lerma
Kendra Wiseman
Astra Woodcraft
Lawrence Woodcraft
Jenna Miscavige
Jason Begh
Marc Headley
Jessie Prince

Those are just a few high profile ex-members that have received headlines. Now, take a trip to www.exscientologykids.com or www.forum.exscn.net for more than 10 or 15 malcontents. Plus, I'm sure with the Failwinds asbestos calamity, you'll get your class action suit, bucko.

Oh, maybe because it all isn't true.

Here we have the acceptable truth, folks. It's not a lie, it's not the whole truth. Notice the placement of the word 'all'. I'll agree that all of it, or 100%, of what is being said about CoS probably isn't true. Your statement wouldn't be a lie if even 99.9999999999999% of the allegations were true. How convenient for you.

This enturbulation that you are causing was actually predicted a year ago in a breifing that I recieved from a group called the International Association of Scientologists (IAS). They said that basically a "shit storm was coming our way so be prepared".

Wow. What a profound prediction. OT powers at work I see. Or, perhaps, the higher ups seeing some high ranking members blow knowing what they knew, realized a tidal wave of "shit" was forthcoming. You don't have to be NostrilDumbAss to predict a shit storm coming for a corrupt corporation in the guise of religion.

Time and time again Scientology has withstood the onslaught of the oppressors and has won.

Are we talking about 55 year old Scientology here? The same "religion" that is banned, under investigation, or officially charged with federal crimes in numerous countries? You guys have a really lax definition of 'win'.

They succeeded because when push comes to shove, there is no case against Scientology.

There are several cases, jackass. Look em up.

What the heck have you guys been doing for the last 6 months -- with little or no effect.

Uhm, I'm pretty sure you'd have to agree that the past '6 months' have garnered the most attention in the media the CoS has ever seen -- bad as it may be.

Jason Beghe and the Neice are already forgotten figures in the Wonderland that is the US media. They had their 15 minutes.

Odd then that when typing 'scientology' into a Google News search that Jason's name is on the first page of results. Hmmm, wasn't Jenna just on Nighline not too long ago?

Now, even the most guible know that web sites are not a good source for unbiased information, especially those that are "anti-" something.

Is the CoS website a source for unbiased information on Scientology, then?! I'd say they have a vested interest. So, no. Also, by your reasoning, those anti-Anonymous sites run by the Church aren't a good source of info on Anonymous.

Anonymous hides because they do not want the responsibility of disclosure (the libel and slander).

Odd then that there are several unmasked or "namefagged" Anonymous at protests. The remaining hide from your Fair Gaming/Gaslighting/Douchebaggery.

They do not want people to know their own selfish vested interests (Can anyone say Big Pharma or the APA?).

Talk about psychotic obsession, you guys need to loosen the foil a bit with the Big Pharma/APA/Marcabian Confederacy talk.

Nor do they want people to see the hypocrisy of their own actions (how many of you guys are guilty of crimes?).

Which crimes? Bomb threats? White powder mailings? You're so convinced that we've done these things yet (to borrow your argument) "professional investigators, people who do this for a living -- not a psychotic obsession, find that there is no substance to all the false accusations, half-truths and hearsay". See how logic works. By the way, crime for crime? Today, I drove over the speed limit and threw a cigarette butt out the car window. Now you.

Suppressive people like to do their work hidden in the background, while honest men toil in the daylight.

I agree. Take a look at who's operating in the background of the CoS. You and your organization are not exempt from this statement. When was DM sec checked last? Has anything odd ever come up during auditing? Hmmm, I think there has. But then, none of you underlings have the confront to even question him. Oh, if you were referring to CoS as the 'honest men' in your quote above, I think you meant to say:

...while honest men make children toil in the daylight.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 4:07PM
Kaos says:

Admit it Mike,

All your Scientology pre-programmed responses and accusations just don't get much traction in the real world. Where are your millions of members now? Nobody believes your BS but you keep spouting it hoping to get your "stats" up. Well guess what, that's not going to happen. The CULT of Scientology has more bad press than at anytime in its past, you can keep putting lipstick on that pig but it isn't getting any prettier. Unless you're into pigs, I guess! Are you Mike, are you into pigs? 'Cause that's what you're dancing with...

Kaos

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 6:47PM
gargy says:

Whew! Suppose Mike knows when to shut the fuck up? Me neither.

Thanks Village Voice. Thanks Tony. Thanks Anonymous.

But the biggest thanks go to the long-time, willing-to-take-the-big-hits critics: Arnie Lerma, L. Wollersheim, Mark Bunker, Stacy Young, Robert Vaughn Young, Andreas Heldal-Lund and many, many more. For an incredibly comprehensive list:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/index.html

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 7:29PM
Dyna says:

To "Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back" -- AWESOME post!!! Not only did you make very good points, you made me laugh pretty hard while doing it!

Posted On: Sunday, May. 18 2008 @ 6:16PM
Mike says:

"Anon, Anon, My Boyfirend's Back", I am sincere about this...I am not aware of any country where Scientology has been banned. I know a couple of an example where it has been banned and then it was reinstated (Greece). Can you please tell me which countries have banned Scientology?

Posted On: Monday, May. 19 2008 @ 2:38PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

Please provide a link showing that it was reinstated in Greece.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 12:12PM
Mike says:

AAMBB: I will give you the link, but you have to answer my question first: Which countries have banned Scientology?

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 12:45PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

SCOTLAND
In Scotland, Scientology is not permitted to refer to itself as a religion.

THE UNITED KINGDOM
The UK government does not classify the Church of Scientology as a religious institution.The Church's application for charity status in England and Wales was rejected in 1999, and the Church has not exercised its right of appeal. However, in 2000, the Church of Scientology was exempted from UK value added tax on the basis that it is a not-for-profit body.

Seems like they were more interested in the tax break than being called a religion. Makes you wonder, eh?

SWITZERLAND
In several cases between 1995 and 2000, the Switzerland Supreme Court consistently ruled that the Church of Scientology is primarily a commercial, rather than religious, organization.

RUSSIA
In July 2007, the St. Petersburg [Russia] City Court ordered that the city's Scientology center be closed for violating its charter by engaging in unlicensed health care services

Uhm, b&

IRELAND
In Ireland, Scientology maintains a mission in Dublin. The Church has not been successful in its attempts to achieve tax-free, charitable status in Ireland.

GREECE
In the case "Attiki Prefecture vs KEPHE," the practice of Scientology was ordered ended in Greece. An appeal to the Athenian Court of Appeals ended with a reaffirmation of the verdict. The verdict was originally issued on December 20, 1995, but was not immediately put into effect. In January 1998 a Greek appeals court ordered Scientology's assets liquidated. The appeals process came to its conclusion in 2002, when KEPHE ended its appeals.

Sound it out: b-a-n-n-e-d

GERMANY
The status of Scientology in Germany is unresolved. Two points are contested: firstly, whether or not the teachings of Scientology qualify as a religious or ideological teaching, and secondly, whether or not these teachings are only used as a pretext for purely commercial activity; if the latter were the case, this would most likely imply that Scientology would not qualify for protection as a religious or ideological community under Article 4 of the German constitution.

FRANCE
France takes a hostile stance against Scientology. In 2000, a government committee recommended dissolving the Church of Scientology there on the grounds that its activities threaten public order. It described the Church as a totalitarian sect that kept files containing personal information on its members, and as "extremely dangerous". The report rejected U.S. criticism of the French government's hostility towards Scientology, saying that Washington's protection of sects was "exorbitant".

In July 2002, a Paris judge ruled that a 13-year-old case against the Church of Scientology alleging fraud and illegal practice of medicine could not go to trial, due to lack of progress in the investigation. The judge ruled that the statute of limitations had expired in the case.

Sounds like a technicality kept you going in France...

DENMARK
In Denmark, the Church of Scientology is not officially approved as a religion. It first applied for approval in the early 1970s; two further unsuccessful applications followed in 1976 and 1982. In mid-1997, the Church of Scientology filed a fourth application, which was suspended at their own request in 2000.

BELGIUM
In Belgium, only six religions are officially recognized by the Government: Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Anglicanism, the Orthodox Church, Judaism and Islam. Scientology has been refused in its appeals as a candidate for the status of recognized religion.

Also, Scientology is currently being prosecuted as a criminal organization in Belgium which could likely lead to it's banning. Big money, big money, no whammies....STOP!

BELARUS
New religions such as Scientology, Kabbalah and Buddhism are syncretic and do not teach their followers anything good.

AUSTRIA
In 2002, the Austrian tax office concluded that the work of the Church of Scientology in Vienna was for the public benefit rather than for anyone’s personal profit, and thus granted that church tax-exempt status as a charitable religious organization.

However, Scientology does not have the status of a religious confessional community in Austria

Another place CoS seems to be perfectly happy with just getting a tax break.

That's just a few things I picked up. So that's St Petersburg, Russia and Greece...there's also Bashkortostan. And that's just some current CoS statuses. We won't go into the past bans in Australia, the UK, and others.

Would you like a list of convictions? Like the largest libel suit ever paid (by CoS) in Canadaian history? Or when Scientology executives were found guilty of breach of public trust in a case involving the theft of information from government offices? Operstion Snow White was decades ago, though, right? How about in Greece in 1999 where 15 Scientologists were accused of systematically keeping files on politicians, journalists, judges, clergymen and other Greek leading personalities.

These are CONVICTIONS and there are many, many more. Open your eyes and get out while you can.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 12:57PM
Mike says:

AAMB: You list countries where the church is currently operating in. What countries are they banned? Just name the countries.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 1:35PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

Mike,

I did. Read the whole message. The countries I stated above are as follows...

SCIENTOLOGY:

Russia (St. Petersburg, Bashkortostan both federal republics of Russia)

Greece (you still haven't provided a link or any supporting evidence to your claim that it has been reinstated)

Would you like me to list the areas Narconon has been banned? Applied Schoolastics?

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 4:54PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

I should clarify that the original post contains countries that Scientology, as a religion, is effectively "banned" or rejected in. Scientology as a corporation or tax exempt organization on the other hand...well, that's a different story. The fact is, Scientology is not legally recognized as religion in any of the countries/states/cities I listed except for maybe Austria where they are recognized as a charitable religious organization as opposed to a religious confessional community. Not sure of (or the reason for) the distinction.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 5:50PM
Mike says:

AAMBB: Your posts answered my question. Scientology is not banned in any country. It is allowed to operate as pervayor of philosphy in both Greece and Russia, just like in the UK. BTW the European Courts of Human Rights found in favor of Scientology in their decision against Russia (5 April 2007).
In US State Dept. papers published on an annual basis most European countries, such as Greece, France, England, Russia, etc. have a distinct bias against any "non-traditional" religios practice. Practices such as Buddism, Mormonism, Evangelicalism, Johovah Witness', Muslims and other off-shoots of Christian religions, even Yoga, have trouble getting established in these countries as well simply because the established religions have a hold on all levels of government, most notably, the local levels where initial registration applications are administered (the concept of the separation between Church and state is wholly American). The Greek Orthodox Church (GOC), The Russian Orthodox Church have special goverment dispensations which allows for a virtual national monopoly of spirituality. In Greece, the GOC actually judges new religion applications submitted to the government. The Church of England operates in much the same manner in Great Britian. And the Roman Catholic Church has a foothold in France and Italy.
The bottom line is that Scientology is having problems in these countries simply because it is not a traditional religion and because the traditional religions are entrenched in every facet and level of government in those countries. Further, these Countries are also giving a hard time to other "non-traditional" entities that are also trying to "spread their word". It is not a "Scientology" issue. It is a "freedom of religion" issue.
Now, this is not my opinion. It is published in US Dept records in their annual reports on Religious Freedom. So when you hear Scientology is having trouble in France, Germany, Russia or England, and you really want to know what is going on, go to this link: http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/ and find out what our own State Dept. is saying about religous freedom in those countries. Religious freedom is not as prevelent outside the USA as you might think.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 21 2008 @ 12:25PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

Regarding Greece, all I could find on Scientology was:

The Ministry of Education and Religion rejected the Church of Scientology's application for recognition and a house-of-prayer permit in 2000 on the grounds that Scientology "is not a religion." The Scientologists subsequently registered as a nonprofit organization because the group's legal counsel advised that the Government would not recognize Scientology as a religion.

According to what I've read, it seems that, in light of missing the final appeals court date, the decision to not recognize Scientology as a religion is irreversible and uncontestable. Sealed. Scientology as an officially recognized religion is effectively banned in Greece. It's similar in Russia outside of Moscow.

However you choose to word it (and ban may not be the proper word), Scientology is not recognized as a religion (and is continuously reject as one) in MANY countries. You may operate in those countries, but not as a religion. It's seems, part of the problem in Greece resulted from the CoS (KEPHE/KEFE) publicly (and erroneously) calling itself a religion.

Either way you slice it, your link (and all the subsequent research that followed) did not show me where a ban was lifted or that the church was reinstated. It showed that Scientology, after being rejected as a religion numerous times, opted to find another way in. Also, those State Reports have been known to be inaccurate at times considering they erroneously reported the 15 Scientology leaders from Greece as being acquitted when they were actually found guilty. But they were not sentenced, due to procedural errors. (In other words, they got off on a technicality).

Finally, it has nothing to do with Scientology being a new religion. The Greek Court of Appeals, in its judgment, describes Scientology (KEPHE/KEFE) as "an organization with totalitarian structures and trends, which despises man, aims at power and money, teaches the survival of the powerful and ruthless, applies dangerous methods without preventing the possibility of suicide of its members, brainwashing them and corroding its opponents' reputation."

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 21 2008 @ 3:16PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

I will say, though, Mike. You've by far been the best encounter (online) I've had with a Scientologist. Well, at least in the later part of the thread. You at least tried to provide solid documentation to support your claims.

And, I will admit, ban is probably not the best choice of words. From now on I will simply say: Scientology has been rejected as a religion in x, y, z. And, for your peace of mind, I'll steer clear of the ones that have been rejected because of any sort statute of limitation-esque rules said countries have in place.

I hope this comment encourages you (and other Scientologists) to support your claims with documentation and to engage in level headed debate.

Happy Staturday!

Posted On: Thursday, May. 22 2008 @ 10:57AM
Mike says:

AAMBB: Scientology is an oft misunderstood philosophy. And without actually studing LRH since 1988, if I heard about an entity that bilks people of their money, that requires the break up of families because of non-belief, forces members to have abortions and institues 'prison camps' for wayward staff members -- I too would be boisterous in my opposition.

Yet, the Scientology you describe and what is described in some of the "anti" web sites is not the Scientology I am in. My wife is not a Scientologist and I have never been given any sort of ultimatum. I know people who have left the Church and no one has followed them or harrassed them. I know staff members who have actually had to be ordered to take time off.
Most of the "anti" Scientology rhetoric out there is simply not true or incomplete.
LRH quotes are taken wholly out of context and are quoted as being literal and factual -- when it supports the "anti-s". However, when a more sublime quotation is rendered LRH becomes a "liar or a cheat".
There is no logic to the anti-Scientology movement, it is completely reactionary.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 22 2008 @ 1:09PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

The thing is, Mike, you're making assumptions. The truth is that many of us have read the basic books (Dianetics, New Slant, Fundamentals of Thought, etc). We've also read policy letters, leaked emails re: the LEAF letter writing campaign, training routines, and even the OT documents.

Now, to put to rest the question of whether or not we're reading the actual documents as opposed to falling for some forgery, am I to believe that the CoS is claiming copyright infringement on false documentation? That doesn't make any sense to me.

That being said, a lot of what we read supports the claims being made by ex-members and long time critics. Add to that the numerous convictions across the world the CoS has on it's record, and the allegations become even more substantiated.

Now, with all of that and numerous eye witness/first hand accounts, sworn affidavits, testimony, etc are you telling me that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there isn't even slighty chance that some of this is true? Appealing to your sense of heroism, isn't even a minute chance enough to warrant some looking into?

This isn't a question of Scientology philosophy and dogma, it's a question of real world ethics. We aren't protesting that the tech is hard to understand and, while you may know many members who haven't experienced these atrocities, we know juat as many who have.

Keep that in mind. I hope you're 100% sure that the Scientology you're in isn't involved in any of these crimes. I think what is happening is that the rest of the world would like to be that sure as well.

As always, happy Staturday.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 22 2008 @ 5:27PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

I should point out that I was able to recognize my poor judgement when using the word ban. Where is Mike to concede on the points I made? Well, if he conceded, he'd likely be sec checked, labeled PTS, and probably sent to the RPF. Although, not knowing how Mike's "wins" on the internet are checked for Staturday, he might've been sent to the RPF anyway for not making a strong enough argument. If that's the case, Mike, I'm sorry. We're only trying to help.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 28 2008 @ 12:24PM
The Ronbot Hunter says:

There is a law of Nature or law of God called “Physiological Reactions” that is the true secret behind Scientology’s Dianectic study technology.

The LRH discovered that when you passed a misunderstood word—you manifested many reactions of various types: Yawning, sleepiness, not there feeling, dizziness, blurry eyes, nervousness and dozens more.

Being the liar that he was, he claimed that Dianetics was “‘his” invention and not a law of God; he hid the fact that it is our human inheritance since time began.

Granted that his power of obnosis was the best in the world, his crime against humanity was to make a “religion” based upon the falsehood, that it was his invention or creation and not a law of God.

There is an EBOOK that explains and reveals the dark and evil secrets of this cult and a few others.

It teaches a person the ways of natural self-healing and also exposes this cult for the thieves that they are.

Go to: http://selfhealingdata.com/

There you will learn to self-heal and learn how to expose the crimes of Scientology.

The Ronbot Hunter.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 29 2008 @ 8:45AM
Mike says:

When did I lie? You guys are great at evaluating everybody else. All you have to do is listen to the tape and read the material.

If the Sea Org is so bad then why does Scientology keep expanding? If the RPF is so terrible then why don't local law enforcement step in, like they did with that sect in Utah? It is simply because the police are used to hearing BS! And that is what you guys have. 10 or 15 malcontents. Why don't they all get together and file a class action suit? get it all out in the open? Oh, maybe because it all isn't true. Get over yourselves, get a life. You are the one that is going to grind down. In most Scientology churches the walls are lined with commendations from local community leaders, state and local political officers praising the contributions of the Church. Jason Beghe, in his comments, just reminded everyone that he is a turncoat. This is how he repays the people that stood by his bedside for 3 nights? Most people do not have a psychotic hatred of Scientology like you guys do. This enturbulation that you are causing was actually predicted a year ago in a breifing that I recieved from a group called the International Association of Scientologists (IAS). They said that basically a "shit storm was coming our way so be prepared". Scientology is/was and will ever be prepared for the likes of Anonymous and those that want to destroy the basic fundamental right of religous freedom. Time and time again Scientology has withstood the onslaught of the oppressors and has won. Someone mentioned that Scientology actually 'Blackmailed" the IRS. NO ONE blackmails the IRS, no one. They succeeded because when push comes to shove, there is no case against Scientology. It is a smoke screen.

Posted On: Saturday, Sep. 13 2008 @ 5:28PM
egnhc fdpaiec says:

asglnqcuk sxem fmya qydswoa zsvad fkou ezqtayjhr

Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 25 2008 @ 6:57PM
Hubert says:

Could you help me. Refuse to be ill. Never tell people you are ill; never own it to yourself. Illness is one of those things which a man should resist on principle.
I am from Myanmar and also now teach English, tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Com searchdirect to search for flights."

THX 8), Hubert.

Posted On: Sunday, Mar. 29 2009 @ 8:27AM
M says:

Tommy is very good looking. I've always wondered,what Anne Archers son look like. Whoah!

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 17 2009 @ 9:56PM
John Boice says:

All this controversy and nobody ever points out or mentions the assertion and/or credibility of Dianetics and Scientology containing the data that can enable people to free themselves of the ignorance and suffering of life if they take the responsibility to understand and apply it. You would think this deserves center stage in order to help people become freer but it doesn't because the reprobate and psychotics can only suppress and hide this data by controversy in hopes of keeping people from reading it, inspecting it, and using it. Anyone taking the time to honestly inspect the data of Dianetics and Scientology will "see" the truth and also "see" why those who create controversy neither can see nor want to. John Boice

Posted On: Wednesday, Sep. 2 2009 @ 6:58PM
ron says:

i'd fuck jenna.

Posted On: Thursday, Sep. 17 2009 @ 12:25AM
Jeff Wells says:

Scientology is the reason I'm alive; how anyone can go against L. Ron Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology is beyond me.

Posted On: Wednesday, Oct. 28 2009 @ 9:17AM
fish oil says:

I found a web site is China that sells those fish oil pills that take care of the fatty acids. I am not sure that they are healthy to eat but I am tempted by the price. Any suggestion how to have better control over the quality of my diet supplements?

Posted On: Saturday, Jan. 16 2010 @ 8:29AM

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