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Scientology

Scientology Reacts to the Voice

By Tony Ortega, Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 9:39AM
Comments (85)
Categories:

If you watched Tommy Davis on CNN last week, you know that Scientology isn’t very adept at public relations.

I was reminded of that now that I’ve been reminiscing about what it was like to write about Hubbardites back in the day, and writing numerous stories about Jason Beghe. Yesterday I heard from Los Angeles-based Scientology spokeswoman Karin Pouw, my old friend, who noticed that I’m back on the Scientology beat.

Pouw and I go back a long way. When I was writing about Scientology at a newspaper in Los Angeles about eight years ago, she invited my editor and publisher out to lunch at the Celebrity Centre, hoping to talk them out of printing further stories. Instead, at the last minute when it turned out the publisher couldn’t make it, my editor brought me along instead.

Pouw didn’t look too happy about it. But we soldiered on through a lovely lunch at the Centre, which is really swank.

I took the opportunity to ask her some questions. It was Pouw who told me something I had never heard before: that only 10 percent of Scientologists had reached the level of OT III. That stunned me. That’s something I’ve been pointing out ever since: that the vast majority of Scientologists have no idea that eventually, they’ll be told the wacky stuff about “Xenu” and that the whole point of their auditing is to remove “body thetans,” something like alien souls, from their person. And at incredibly high prices.

But Pouw said something even more amazing at that lunch. Some Scientologists, like John Travolta, make the claim that you can be a Christian and still be a Scientologist as well. But didn’t Hubbard, I pointed out, write in his Xenu story that Jesus was, in fact, just a bit of programming that had been inserted in our psyches? How was it possible for a Scientologist also to be a Christian if Hubbard claimed that Jesus was just a figment of the imagination?

Well, you can imagine that the lunch got pretty heated at that moment, and Pouw was clearly angry that I’d put her on the spot on her own turf. But eventually, she blurted out, “So we think Jesus is a figment of the imagination! So what!”

What a moment. That’s not something I expect to see on Scientology brochures any time soon.

You can imagine what a pleasure it was to hear from Karin yesterday, who called because she noticed our blog item on Jason Beghe and Tommy Davis.

What followed was, unfortunately, the kind of conversation that’s about as fun as a trip to the proctologist. What are you planning to write? Will this be in the paper or just on the web? Have you ever written anything positive about the church? Have you ever talked to someone who’s still in the church?

I tried to explain that whenever a reporter wants to talk to everyday Scientologists, they’re carefully herded—“handled” in Scientology lingo—so that they talk to spokespeople, who never answer any real questions. And an attempt by a Voice reporter to tour the New York org and speak to people there was rebuffed, by the way. And as for writing positive things about an organization that has been shown repeatedly, in court case after court case, to be a money-making scam that takes advantage of the gullible?

Well, I pointed out to Karin that asking that question is like asking why haven’t I written any “positive” stories about the mafia.

She didn’t seem to appreciate that very much.

I told her I’d love to hear her thoughts on Jason Beghe, who is causing such waves for publicly denouncing Scientology after 12 years as one of its celebrity trophies.

She said she’d e-mail me something.

Comments (85) Write Comment
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  • Jason Beghe Is Still Denouncing Scientology -- This Time in Germany September 16, 2008
  • Jason Beghe: Scientologist Feared a Gay Friend Caused My Car Crash April 16, 2008

More About:

  • Church of Scientology
  • Karin Pouw
  • Jason Beghe
  • Scientology
  • Religion

Comments (85)

Merril says:

Yes Karin please write another epic foot bullet for anonymous to use against the COS.

" Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ.."

L. Ron Hubbard
From "Assists" lecture. 3 October 1968. #10 in the confidential Class VIII series of lectures

You can actually hear hubbard say "There is no Christ" if anyones interested. And here about the Christ game.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/multimedia.html

Those all constitute fair use by the way.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 10:33AM
Anne says:

Pouw is as incompetant as she is evil. Just like Davis, she's been trying to smear Anonymous all year, and she makes Scientology look all the worse for it. How about providing some evidence to refute all the allegations, Karin? Oh, you don't have any? Didn't think so.

Why does Scientology always employ B-movie villains for PR?

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 10:40AM
Kaycee says:

HA! 'They' get so angry when they cant give a no answer answer.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 10:47AM
Steve says:

Possibly the reason that you feel "herded" to a spokesperson can be found in your clearly biased viewpoint out of the box. Re-read your story and see if you can get a little more adept at inspecting your core viewpoint of Scientology. Like the "mafia" reference? The problem with erstwhile "reporters" like you is that you aren't really reporting news, you are forwarding either a personal bias or regurgitating other gossips and classifying it as news. You have no concept of the theology of Scientology other than to play up what makes up about ten pages of the more than 30 million words Hubbard has issued describing Scientology. Gossips even have the "creation theory" wrong. It is actually written about in a book, but that doesn't give you the "boing" factor you need to restimulate others (you get my gist). I hope Karen Pouw gets smart and doesn't waste her time trying to convince you of something.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 10:51AM
Anne says:

^^^
Visit Enturbulation.org to find out more about this OSA agent!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:10AM
DMS says:

Steve, the Xenu story that you say "is actually written about in a book" can be found in official $cientology training papers, which you can get at Wikileaks: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology_collected_Operating_Thetan_documents

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:15AM
Lilly von Marcab says:

Tony, thanks for this and for all your work on the anti-Scientology front. "Steve" the Scientologist's problem is that he uses words without fully "clearing" them, or truly understanding what they mean (Scientologists are big on this, though they don't approach the task etymologically, which would be the only sensible approach). Steve, go immediately to your dictionary and study "erstwhile" for the rest of the day. Then report in for a Sec Check. Steve's other problem is in describing Scientology as a "theology." Theology, from the Greek, "study of God." Scientology doesn't have a God, so once again, Steve, you Flunk.

In all seriousness, though, the Scientology criminal network is really cracking. Their biggest cash-cow., billionaire James Packer, has broken out of the barn; record numbers of high "officials" are flying the coop; the check is NOT in the mail; the cult's 440-ft luxury ocean liner (!) is quarantined and under lock & key in Curacao, due to extremely widespread asbestos contamination (known to the cult for 21 years); and the criminal investigations into Miscavige et al's crooked activities are really heating up. The cult/criminal racket is falling apart much more quickly than we had expected. Steve, you had better get out now, before you wake up one day find your "church" in ruins at your feet.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:22AM
R. Hill says:

Steve, if Scientology is so great, and if Scientologists are so proud of their "30-million words" religion, why do they *lie consistently* about it?

Why is there such a thick track record of intimidating and/or threatening into silence those speaking about their experience into Scientology, or those *giving a forum* to those speaking about their experience into Scientology?

Oh, and for the "mafia" reference, it sure makes sense...

"Any Sea Org contacting any of them is to use Auditing Process R2-45." - L. Ron Hubbard

"I was also informed of a Cult-organized group of vigilantes known as the 'minutemen' who were to go beat up dissidents and had in fact done so." - Joseph A. Yanny

http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/threats.html

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:30AM
fishercat says:

Actually Steve, I am willing to bet that since Tony doesn't have to play by the silly Cult rules that tell what you must read and study, when (after you fork over your credit card) it is highly likely that he knows more about scientology "theology" than 90% of its victims. You know, those people who have come up with the hundreds of thousands of $$ to reach OTIII.

Anyone else can read the OT levels on wikipedia for FREE.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:33AM
Robert S says:

To "Steve" below - "Possibly the reason that you feel "herded" to a spokesperson can be found in your clearly biased viewpoint out of the box" does not make any sense. Are you suggesting that the writer feels herded because he is biased or biased because he is herded? In actuality there's no logical connection between being herded and being biased. Quite possibly what you meant to say was "it is because you are biased that we have to herd you around" which is a much clearer way to say what i think you are trying to say. Anyway, so far as I can tell.

In the meantime instead of getting angry and writing things no one can understand, why not demonstrate how much good Scientology has done you and engage in a rational discourse? This just makes you look like an adolescent.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:38AM
Steve says:

Wow, I take back everything I just said. I went to Merril's link and it explained everything.

I am out of Scientology for good.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:42AM
anon says:

Tony's voice continues to shed light on the truth. It's a shame that people like Steve above have been tricked themselves into believing they are not the evil ones. Anonymous is here to help, Steve. We have the truth in our hands and evidence available. Will you truly think for yourself and look at the facts?

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:43AM
Opha Mae Johnson says:

Hi Steve! No concept of Scientology?....when asked Tommy Davis couldn't even answer that question. I think we all understand the concept of Scientology perfectly... Make money, make money, make more money and Lie Lie Lie. Yeah I think we ALL get it.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:44AM
William Buddusky says:

@steve,
I think it's more likely that reporters feel "herded" is because they have been "herded" in every sanctioned interview situation with scientology I've ever seen and that is quite a few. Except of course for the very recent videos from Der Stern. People should have a look at these scientologists on Der Stern's Candid Camera. It's a lot more enlightening than hearing Karin Pouw or Tommy Davis lie through their teeth again.
Personally, I hope Karin Pouw gets smart and blows your pop-stand like Rinder did.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:46AM
Mark A. Bian says:

Hey Steve:

Justice Latey, ruling in the High Court of London:

"Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious...It is corrupt sinister and dangerous. It is corrupt because it is based on lies and deceit and has its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard... It is sinister because it indulges in infamous practices both to its adherents who do not toe the line unquestionably and to those who criticize it or oppose it. It is dangerous because it is out to capture people and to indoctrinate and brainwash them so they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult, withdrawn from ordinary thought, living, and relationships with others."

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:46AM
anon says:

Tony's voice continues to shed light on the truth. It's a shame that people like Steve above have tricked themselves into believing they are not the evil ones. Anonymous is here to help, Steve. We have the truth in our hands and evidence available. Will you truly think for yourself and look at the facts?

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:47AM
anon says:

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT and LOL

You are admitting these '10 pages' say jesus is imaginary Steve? If so, you do realise that that is saying the church of scientology is guilty of fraud right.

Becuase if you tell people in public that its compatible with other religions to encoruage membership from other faiths, then the truth ends up being the exact opposite, thats fraud.

Steve it only has to be one sentence saying jesus is imaginary and its fraud.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:52AM
Anon says:

Steve, your spokespeople either lie outright (There is no disconnection! Anonymous are not in Baghdad! Please don't look at the website we just plugged 5 times that describes the Disconnection policy on it, as it doesn't exist!) or evade any questions put to them. Scientology doesn't value communication. It values misdirection.

BTW, Hubbard lied; the volcanos he mentioned in Incident 2 didn't exist 75 million years ago, based on geological evidence.

But then Hubbard did pioneer "TR-L" or "Training Routine - Lying" to go along with his postulate "The only way to control people is to lie to them" as he stated in his work "On Control and Lying."

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:56AM
Lafayette says:

"The problem with erstwhile "reporters" like you is that you aren't really reporting news, you are forwarding either a personal bias or regurgitating other gossips and classifying it as news." - Steve

Seriously, Steve, when scientology consistently refuses to let journalists study "their side" of the story because the journalists are already defined by the church as Potential Trouble Sources and shouldn't be talked to.

It's a simple equation:
CoS providing zero facts + critics providing court and FBI docs in addition to a cornucopia of anecdotes = bad (but accurate) press for CoS

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:57AM
Anon says:

May you go with the blessings of Xenu, Tony.

And you as well Karin.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:57AM
Gartrip says:

Steve... DUDE!

What flavor is that Kool-Aid you've got flowing into your veins? Huh? It looks pretty tasty. Wild Cherry, maybe? Care to share with the rest of us?

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:58AM
Boyscout says:

The theology of Scientology is made up of about 30 million words of absolute psychobabble. I have no idea how anyone can get through those books. I will be honest with you, if I may. I have sat down with a copy of Dianetics in one hand and a copy of the history book Hubbard published (something about no one else writing about the history of the earth on the back cover? I'm sorry...it was a few months ago and it was too ridiculous for me to recall) and I couldn't get through it. It isn't the 'difficult terminology or anything that you would imagine. It is the slaughtering of the English language. On a side note, I'm sure as a reporter he has actually done a great deal of research on the topic 'Steve' and most likely knows more about Scientology than you do.

Look up: Operation Snow white
Look up: Operation Freak out
Look up: Fair Game

Do some research before your bring your baseless arguments into a logical discussion. As for the ‘boing’ factor that you brought up. Sit down and talk with an OTIII who left the church because of how preposterous the story is. Sit down and think about it rationally and realize that it was written by a SCIENCE FICTION WRITER.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:00PM
Johnson says:

Steve

Source is source is source is source is source is source is source is source is source is source is source is source is source.

Either you defend all the tech or admit that the tech is incorrect.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:11PM
anyanon says:

@ Tony: thank you, thank you, thank you... NUFF SAID

@ Steve: it appears, my friend, you have an MU. Since Tony is very obviously a CURRENT journalist, it is not possible for him to be an ERSTWHILE journalist as you have stated. Back to the books for you, oh and no charge for me finding the MU for you!

(to clarify for non-scientologists this means, in scientology-speak, a "misunderstood"; referring typically to a misunderstood word; scientologists spend a lot of time focusing on precise meanings of specific words to help them identify where obstacles to their progress might be. Now putting those words into context and then understanding that context...NOT SO MUCH!)

But Steve, anonymous does care about you and your health and well-being...we look forward to you finding your way out of the Truman show/ponzi-scheme you're in. Good luck to you, honestly.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:20PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

Steve,

You have no concept of the theology of Scientology other than to play up what makes up about ten pages of the more than 30 million words Hubbard has issued describing Scientology

You make a lot of assumptions here. You do realize Wikileaks has a lot of Scientology's SEKRITZ, right? You do realize that a lot of Anonymous have read those SEKRITZ in their entirety, right? You also realize that the CoS is trying to sue Wikileaks for hosting those SEKRITZ thereby confirming their authenticity, right?

Gossips even have the "creation theory" wrong. It is actually written about in a book, but that doesn't give you the "boing" factor you need to restimulate others (you get my gist).

Are you one of the 10%, Steve, or one of the 90%? How much do you actually know about Scientology theology (I use that term loosely in regards to Scn)? The creation theory? You mean, Incident I which is part of OT3, Steve? You mean:

Loud snap,
waves of light,
chariot comes in, turns right and left,
cherub comes out, blows horn, comes close,
shattering series of snaps,
cherub fades away, retreats
blackness dumped on the being

There it is. In Hubbard's own handwriting. No 'boing' factor to speak of, but a definite 'LOLWUT?!' factor. By the way, what book was this published in? Was it survival of man? Isn't that the one that talks about deleting or desposing of, silently and without sorrow, anyone at or below a 2.0 on your tone scale? Doesn't 2.0 and below include what Hubbard called "perversions" such as homosexuality? CoS and Westborough Baptists ought to join forces. They both seem to have the "cure" for being gay:

CoS think it can be audited away, WBC thinks AIDS is the cure. You guys could have nice little lunches together blaming homosexuals for things like military deaths and car crashes, amirite?

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:21PM
Grace says:

I love you Tony, you fabulous thetan-encrusted man! Fight the good fight!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:33PM
Terryeo says:

The author doesn't understand his statements are inaccurate. Tsk.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:38PM
anyanon says:

Terryeo doesn't understand her statement is inaccurate. Tsk.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:50PM
MoonUnitHubbard says:

Terryeo doesn't understand her/his head is up his/her ass. Tsk.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:54PM
steve daly says:

As a longtime Scientologist, I am appalled that all of these events are happening and we were never told about them. Asbestos? False imprisonment? Suicide? Fair game? And I thought we were the most ethical group on the planet. I really, sincerely thought we were clearing the planet of all pyschiatrists.

I need to get my homeys Terryeo and James Lightfield and Grnapl and Angela Gupta and Tom Newton out, ASAP!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 12:58PM
Espy says:

Ah, hello Terryeo!!!
If there happens to be technical inaccuracies it still does not mean the overall message is incorrect.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 1:07PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

What's not to understand, Terry? It sounds like a personal accounting of an exchange between Tony and Karin. Were you there? Do you know the context and implications behind Karin's words to Tony?

If you're referring to "didn’t Hubbard, I pointed out, write in his Xenu story that Jesus was, in fact, just a bit of programming that had been inserted in our psyches?", you can hear Hubbard SAY it in Merril's link. You can read it in the sekrit dox on Wikileaks which, again, to me, are authenticated by the CoS claiming copyright infringement to get them taken down.

So, please, show me where the misunderstanding is. How are we supposed to receive these words and process them? Bah, fuggit. I should go outside and sniff the flowers oh de doo da day, amirite, Terry?

You're a whackjob.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 1:13PM
David Mudkips says:

After watching the likes of Karin Pouw and Tommy Davis LIE THROUGH THEIR FRIGGIN' TEETH OVER-AND-OVER AGAIN (even when it involves the health and safety of their fellow scientologists)...

...I'll never trust another thing that comes out of either of these snake's mouths.

How callous and brainwashed do you have to be to put your organization's PR Image ahead of the health of its members.

Karin: you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Of course, you're not. You're proud to be a creepy liar for scientology (oh, it's not lying, it's just "handling" the wog press).

How you sleep at night is totally beyond me.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 1:48PM
James Lightfield says:

Say there Tony, how about you ask Karen where her husband is. Thus far no journalist has had to guts to do that....even when she babbles on and on about there being no policy of disconnection in Scientology. Ask her how long it's been since she's seen him, where he is...and why:)

IF she tells the truth (and it's doubtful that she will, per scientologys the acceptable lies doctrine) you will find out she has not seen him in ages because he's been imprisoned in the RPF(the CO$ prison camp in California.)

Just hearing someone have the guts to ask her that question and hear her answer would be GOLD.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 1:48PM
Space Cooties says:

This is Terryeo

Now please ignore him ;)

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 1:58PM
Anonymous says:

Thank you for your reporting on this issue. There are many people trapped inside or recently escaped from this cult. They need to know someone is behind them. Thank you.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 2:09PM
Zenster says:

This is the training that Karin Pouw did:

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/osa-int-ed-508r.html

If you read the L Ron Blubbard policy letters you can predict what Pouw will do next. She is after all, merely a programmed Rondroid, and the above web site details all of her programming and how her mind, full of L Ron Blubbard programming, operates

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 2:16PM
Anonymous says:

Poor terryeo. Trying to base an argument on the information $cientology gives is like building a house in a swamp - you get ridiculed while you do it, then everyone laughs when it sinks.

You know, it's a bit like trolling all articles regarding $cientology and saying "no it izn't" like some contradictory parrot. (eg....)

Everybody - "Scientology is a pile of BS"

Terryeo -"no it izn't"

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 2:18PM
A Watcher says:

“So we think Jesus is a figment of the imagination! So what!”

So I think I know a few Catholics who will take serious issue with that. Especially since you shamelessly LIED about your 'religion' being compatible with other, more legitimate religions.

Thanks for another great article, Tony. Many blessings and internets to you!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 2:25PM
Don Cerebro says:

Thanks to this publication for reporting on this corporation of intimidation. It needs to be done.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 2:47PM
Espy says:

Perhaps they figure they aren't technically lying if what they mean is that it is compatible with other religions in the sense that Hubbard managed to "fit" all other religions into his own origin theory.

According to Hubbard's origin theory, all religions other are just something kind of like "implanted memories."

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 2:59PM
Paul S Riddick says:

It's pretty sad (but true) that the majority of any cults critics know more about the organization than the majority of its members.

We've read secret stuff in Hubbard's own handwriting. We've read court documents and death certificates. The documented journalistic articles go on for miles. And we (meaning people not in the cult) can read them all day long instead of stick out head in the sand ... I mean ignore "entheta"

Brainwashing is so easy to understand when you study Scientology FROM THE OUTSIDE.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 3:05PM
KeeKee says:

Mr. Ortega...you are the man!!!!!!!!!

La Rasa!!!!!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 3:22PM
Anonymous says:

Steve stated: "You have no concept of the theology of Scientology other than to play up what makes up about ten pages of the more than 30 million words Hubbard has issued describing Scientology."

Imagine if scientologists had to undergo endless hours of auditing to exorcise these pesky "body thetans" without first knowing where they come from, that would be awkward... So really this 10-page OT3 level is quite important. Anyway, at $700/page (as seen there: http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html ), looks like the Church of Scientology agrees with that.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 3:47PM
Mary McConnell says:

Bravo, Tony Ortega!!!! The timing was right and you went for the jugular!

I suspect you're getting a standing ovation from every former member and every reporter and journalist who ever had dealings with the Church of Scientology!!!

Thank you to The Village Voice for allowing this excellent piece to be publish!

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 4:43PM
longcat war says:

it's funny theology and incident 1 were mentioned here, because incident 1 is about as close as scientology ever gets to theology. cherub means angel. afaik no where else do angels figure. OT8 has the BIG SECRET, that Hubbard is God er I mean Antichrist, same thing, so let's all pull together and do ur part to keep Jesus and the psychs from pulling off the Second Coming. Oh wait that's right, OT8 was amended because it was just too crazy even for dangerous cultists like scientologists. that's fairly what people mean when they use the word cult: you. Because for you there is an inner and an external truth, one for you and another for outsiders. Your truth is either too dangerous for us normal people or it can't stand our scrutiny, take your pick. Either way you're still dangerous cultists supporting a transnational mafia.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 5:00PM
Centurian 10 says:

TERRYEO, OSA SHILL AND WORTHLESS PEICE/SPOOKSPERSON FOR THE CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY...

READ MORE ON THIS IDIOT AT http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Terryeo

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 5:56PM
James19 says:

I'm a scientologist. So do you guys hate me for that? Am I not invited to your annual superbowl party? I love reading from you guys trying to paint the picture of how bad it all is (scientology). Its just not, sorry to disappoint some of you. Look on the bright side its Friday !!!!! PS if you have a real question ill try to answer it. A-hole questions can be answered by ur mom, just go up the stairs from your parents basement. She might even feed u hotpockets.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 7:14PM
An0nym0usMaN says:

Yes, Zenster.

Know their documents that they must study and follow, and you can predict them rather easily I think.

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 9:47PM
Arnie says:

(Insert hate here.)

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 10:02PM
Arnie Lerma says:

Dear Tony,
Hubbard's insane rants make sense if you consider that he is using a covert trance inducing hypnotic technique called
THE CONFUSION TECHNIQUE
Quote:
from a chapter of a book by Milton Erikson entitled: "Deep Hypnosis Techniques"
For want of a better term, one of these special procedures may be termed the "confusion technique." It has been employed extensively for the induction of specific phenomena as well as deep trances. Usually, it is best employed with highly intelligent subjects interested in the hypnotic process, or with those consciously unwilling to go into a trance despite an unconscious willingness.

This ONE factoid often wakes up Scientologist's from scientology

Posted On: Friday, May. 16 2008 @ 11:38PM
Chuck Beatty says:

Lorne L. Dawson wrote "Comprehending Cults" Oxford Univ Press, 1998, p31-32.

"Scienotlogy, Krishna Consciousness, and the Unification Church, for example, are relatively long-lived and relatively large......each of these groups displayed markedly the traits of a cult. Moreover, they continue to display many cult-like attitutdes and practices.....Perhaps, then, yet another category should be dded...that of 'established cult'."

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 12:27AM
John says:

Keep doing what you're doing Mr. Ortega.

Good to see there are still some real journalists out there.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 12:31AM
steve says:

WOW! I feel like I wasted so much of my life "spanking my monkey" looking at pictures of LRH, David M., and Tom.

I quit OSA... I SWEAR!!!

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 5:39AM
roger gonnet says:

Yes, Karin Pouw, how come your cult keeps on lying about everything?
Exemple, you said that only 10 % of the scientologists were OT IIIs. Well, if there are 8 or ten million scientologists, there should be some 800000 to one mil OTIIIs, while you don't even have 5 or 6000. Where are the others? Dead?

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 9:45AM
Chaz Michael Michaels says:

I love Scientology, because my daily Co$ newsfeed has become my primary source of comedic entertainment every since "Curb Your Enthusiasm" went off the air.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 12:27PM
Artoo45 says:

Here's the video of my song "What's the Matter With You Hat?".

http://purinton.blogspot.com/2007/12/pink-munky-whats-matter-with-you-hat.html

It contains the whole "no christ" thing as well as some other particularly hilarious shit. Taking down this cult is best done by revealing the "tech" to the uneducated. They are being brought down not by a competing ideology, but by people reading and hearing their own words.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 4:46PM
2249799 says:

Tony Ortega lies too bluntly. Hey boys, looks like most of you are specialized in lying - why don't you teach him a bit? With his limited abilities he won't go far..
By the way, I suggest, you read a solitary Scn book (at least) before trying to appear to be the authority of the field. - Then you would also know why you are talking lies. - Scary, eh? Boooo

Posted On: Saturday, May. 17 2008 @ 7:05PM
Snoware says:

Karin Pouw,

You would like a positive in-depth article on Scientology.

I'd be really interested in a comparison of the alien thetan concept of soul, and the concept of soul in other religions. I would be interested in reading a comparison between the Hindu and Scientology concepts of reincarnation. I think a further discussion on Scientology's explanation of dinosaur fossils, with a counter-argument from a palentologist would be fascinating.

If you truly want us to accept your theories as we accept the theories of others, you have to be willing to discuss them.

It is because you are not willing to discuss anything of substance, that you perceive bias.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 18 2008 @ 1:03AM
Xemu X. Xenu Jr. says:

Tony,

This Article ROCKS! Thank you.

Don't forget to always point out that ALL Scientologists above Clear - are required to be 'TELEPATHIC' - they are actually required to convince themselves that they suddenly have telepathic powers - This is a really important point - NO ONE EVER Past and PRESENT has telepathic abilities - PERIOD! A $cientologist spends months in a quazi-telepathic state with thousands of Dead Space Aliens - Where NO PROOF EVER Exists of any Extratresterial Visitation by Xenu the InterGalactic OverLord and/or her/his minions. All 'native sense of disbelief' in $cientologists has been systematically destroyed - use these points to help un-spring the trap and free those that have been swindled out of their savings and carefully isolated from their friends / family / and close associates.

So remember - TELEPATHY - DEAD SPACE ALIEN SPIRITS - and Permanent Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Great Article. I look forward to highlights of these crucial childish concepts in future articles -

Posted On: Sunday, May. 18 2008 @ 8:23AM
Anonymous Portland Oregon says:

Tony,

Once again--a nice bit of journalism! Keep up the good work!

I feel that things are getting even better when the Village Voice starts to sharpen its gaze on the Scientology protests...

To you and your editors, hearty kudos!

Cheers,
-Anonymous in Portland

Posted On: Sunday, May. 18 2008 @ 3:20PM
judy says:

wow God Bless Tony and Anonymous also All Exscientologist and Critics getting the Truth about the ugliness, crimes, and abuses of the cult scientology.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 18 2008 @ 9:13PM
Sarah says:

Ok people, scientology is evil. But, in order to get ordinary people (who are largely good) out of it, we can't support hate talk. We must show them with means of normal arguments that they are going to be hurt by this organisation.

Posted On: Monday, May. 19 2008 @ 3:12AM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

@2249799

Ready for a statslam?

Tony Ortega lies too bluntly.

Again, were you there? Perhaps Karin lied to Tony in an effort to control him. That's one of Scientologies "scriptures", right? Something along the lines of "the only way to control people is to lie to them"?

Hey boys, looks like most of you are specialized in lying - why don't you teach him a bit?

Me personally, I only have like 2 levels in lying so, I wouldn't say I'm specialized just yet. I do have some Marcabian Cadet training next month and hope to level up in lying while I'm there. I'll also be attending courses on how to covertly shill for the psycho-pharmaceutical companies even though I think we overmedicate in this country and that most medication is a crutch at best.

With his limited abilities he won't go far..

I'd say having your articles listed on the first page of a Google News search on Scientology (considring how hot the subject is) is, in the journalistic world, going pretty far, eh?

By the way, I suggest, you read a solitary Scn book (at least) before trying to appear to be the authority of the field. - Then you would also know why you are talking lies.

I've (and I'm sure most have) read more than "a solitary Scn book"; that's where we get most of our info from. Science of Survival was probably one of the most ridiculous and poorly written books ever. Dianetics? More of the same. Reading these books without the benefit of being brainwashed first, makes me realize I'm speaking the truth.

Scary, eh? Boooo

Very scary indeed. Oh de do dah day.

Posted On: Monday, May. 19 2008 @ 11:10AM
Barbara Jacom says:

More of the same from the Voice!
The Village Voice's coverage of the Anonymous vs. Scientology issue bids to rename the paper the Village Vendetta. All pretense of balance has been thrown out and no venom, whether the editor himself to the succession of attack-dog writers, is too extreme or outrageous.
Seriously, could all this possibly be true, and the Church of Scientology be growing at the rate it is? The expansion -- new members and staff to provide service for them, the new buildings and renovations, and the money poured into anti-drug efforts, their human rights campaign, and hundreds of programs around the world to increase literacy - is all funded by people who say Scientology is helping them lead better, happier, lives.
If 1% of the abuse you've thrown against the Scientologists were true, they would have been gone long ago. But they're not - Anonymous does their demos and rational people keep checking out Scientology for themselves, and they like what they find. Or people go to www.scientology.org and they see what Scientology is really about.
I can attest to the value and usefulness of L. Ron Hubbard's philosophy.
I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for your craven attempts to harm a group of good people.
Barbara Jacome
Manhattan

Posted On: Monday, May. 19 2008 @ 4:35PM
gary sidney says:

It is mind boggling to me that you guys sit around and attempt to create this amount of animosity toward a stable and contributing religious group. And make no mistake about it---we are an established, prosperous, upbeat and rapidly expanding group despite your comments.If any other well known religion were spoken of this way in the newspapers the media would go beserk. I wonder why you guys get a free pass to spew your hate. Now that would be a good thing to write about.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 9:01AM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

"no venom...is too extreme or outrageous"

The truth can be venomous sometimes, I suppose. Have you personally investigated any of the allegations beyond accepting what you've been told? Somehow, I doubt it. Have you read any of the OT documentation on Wikileaks? Have you read any of the "actual" OT documentation to compare it to? You're so quick to dismiss anything negative about your church. Such blind faith in an organization is dangerous in and of itself. Wake up.

"Seriously, could all this possibly be true, and the Church of Scientology be growing at the rate it is?"

Yes, seriously, it could be true. And growing at what rate? Last I checked, CoS claimed 15 million in the 80's and now claim 8 million. That is what's called a decline, my friend. No doubt, both of those numbers are inflated. At any rate, you're going to be made to believe that all the allegations are untrue and that, to the contrary, the church is growing. Duh. Of course they're going to lead you to believe that. It benefits the ones that stand to gain the most. Wake up.

"Or people go to www.scientology.org and they see what Scientology is really about"

So, you complain about the bias, non-objective reporting here, but tell us to get the real story from the official Scientology website?! So, if I want the real deal on Bin Laden, do I go to the Al Qaida website? The CoS website and it's operators has a vested interest and are not unbiased or objective. Period. Wake up.

"I can attest to the value and usefulness of L. Ron Hubbard's philosophy"

No one has said that there's no value to the "tech". Many have said the exact opposite. But the "tech" being useful does not cancel out the numerous abuses. How does the church get away with these illegal practices? Religious cloaking. Read Brennan's affidavit and...Wake up.

"I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for your craven attempts to harm a group of good people"

Ain't no shame in this game. We aren't trying to harm anyone. We are trying to prevent harm. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that none of the illegal practices we claim the CoS is responsible for are happening, and Anonymous disappears. The "NO U" defense is weak and proves nothing. Wake up.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 11:11AM
Ron Larson says:

Why keep on arguing?
If anyone cares to come into the Real World, they can check out Scientology for themselves.
You can read a book by L. Ron Hubbard, and find out what he said. You can apply what he wrote, and find out if it works.
People are trying Scientology, finding it works, and telling their friends, every day.
I'm signing off now, and go live a better life with what I've learned from some of what Mr. Hubbard wrote!
Ron L. - Midtown Manhattan

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 3:19PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

Again, it's not the benefits of the tech that are in question. If it works for you, great. The story here is the abuse, the forced abortions, the RPF, etc. I'm sure the tech would work just as well without these things. Hell, I'm not even saying that every accusation leveled against the church is true. I'm not that naive. However, there are too many accounts of abuse and human rights violations that seem to be supported by official church documentation for to all be false. Like I've said numerous times, if a third party investigation can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that NONE of the alleged abuse is taking place, Anonymous disappears. At least in it's current form. I can't speak for all Anons, but I'm sure if we had objective, third party produced documentation dismissing all charges, a vast majority would relent. Period. Ask your church why they won't submit to such an investigation?

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 4:02PM
Barbara Jacome says:

Mr. L has a point!
I personally have used Scientology to get and stay off drugs, to create a better marriage, to create my own business, providing a useful service to other businesses, with a minimum of stress and a maximum of income.
At the same time, I have been able to contribute to the international efforts of the Church to support human rights, as you can see on their website, www.scientology.org.
It works for me, and it works for a lot of people I know.
B.C., NY

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 4:03PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

Did you even read the post I made, Barb? Or have the NY orgs just sent you to blindly post? It's great that Scientology works for you! But, it's worth noting that your claims sound like a get rich quick or all-in-one weight loss infomercial. Meanwhile, if you've been on the Freewinds, don't forget to add lung cancer to the list of things Scientology has helped you to get. I hope you are an OT or at least a Clear...oh wait--OTs and clears die of disease all the time despite what you're told.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 5:44PM
David says:

@2249799

Ah... you've just put forth one of my favorite Scientologist nonsensical arguments... i.e., "if you haven't read our crap, your criticism of our actions isn't valid."

Wrongo. I don't have to read the bible cover-to-cover to (validly) oppose Catholic priests molesting kids... or their church for going out of their way to cover it up.

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with your dogma, theology, religion... or whatever term you care to cloak it under.

It's got everything to do with the abusive *practices* of the management of a *corporation*.

Would you call me a religious bigot for opposing priests that molest children or an organization that tries to hide that fact?

The abuses of your so-called "church" are abhorrent... unethical... and often illegal. Until that crap stops, I'll be out in public doing my very best to air Scientology's dirty laundry.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 7:09PM
HJ Norman says:

OK, I give up, you win! I am a Scientologist, I am OT VII. I've studied Mr Hubbards writtings on the mind, the body and that thing we call me & you, the Spirit. I can tell you over the years, 22 years, I'm glad very early on that I didn't run into all of you chaps. God forbid, or Jesus forbid or who cares their dead forbid; That I might have "bought" your story at the begining, before I was able to think for myself, study some LRH data, apply it and SEE if it worked! Well, XENO, SMENO or even MENO, you guys are unfortunatley missing the boat, a big boat! You don't realize this because you never even stepped onto the boat to see where it goes or if it goes or if its fun or cool or even worth your time or your hard earned money. I'll tell you this boys; everything
Mr Hubbard has talked about that I have learned, understood and APPLIED, has proven out and given a result. No matter if it was about you or me (Spirits) about Others, small groups of people, larger groups, whatever! It's panned out and made sense and helped me understand more about you & me, that thing we all in passing call Life. If only a slight better understanding of life was all I had been looking for, I got it, I really got it, and I'm grateful. I apply LRH's Technology in/on Life (you & me) to try and help other people and they appreciate my help and it's Good Help as well. So, 1) read some basic books, yes very basic books like "Problems of Work" or
A "New Slant on Life", or "Fundementals of Thought", READ SOME ACTUAL Books LRH wrote! and Stop worrying about Jesus or Space Aliens or even Today's Gas Prices; You will benefit from these simple Books becasue they contain truth about you & me and what we are made-up of, what we're all about. That's what Mr Hubbard's intentions were/are, to educate man, to help man. But remember, You wont know the journey, can't approximate the journey, cant really "see" for yourself if there really IS a journey or something to "know", unless you go on a bit of a jounrney for yourself. We could go back and forth and back and forth and dig up this or that and argue and go back and forth and argue some more, and I'll tell you; it wouldn't get you or me any closer to finding out some truth about Life, truth about You or Me (life). So, I am a Spirit, so are you, I believe we are immortal you & I. I love reading and studying Mr. Hubbard's works as they make me smile and give me workable solutions to everyday problems, they give me great pleasure! If something is true for you, then it is true for you and I respect that. But PLEASE don't try and MAKE things untrue for others, that you have not truly studied yourself and know little or nothing of. I appologise for my grammer, it was never my strongest subject. A typical Scientologist, A typical person. HJNorman

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 8:05PM
josh says:

Crackpots, Ron Hubbard was insane.. but than most people who believe his vacuumous nonsense are out of their minds to begin with.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 20 2008 @ 11:38PM
waytomissthepoint says:

hj:

you can believe/read whatever it is you want to. freezone scientologists practice hubbard's ideas FREE OF CHARGE, and OUTSIDE of the corporation known as the church of scientology.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 21 2008 @ 6:19AM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

@HJ

Please refer to David's post above yours.

We don't need to read the books to understand that forcing/coercing abortion on a woman is wrong. We don't need study the tech to know that disconnection is awful. We don't need attend Sunday services at the local org to know the RPF is unconstitutional. And we don't need you and other CoS mouthpieces and apologists spouting off "acceptable truths" (translation: lies) to know what we're up against.

Funny that you're an OT7 and flippantly say "XENO, SMENO or even MENO" as if you don't know what we're talking about. Of course, you've been told not to. Being that Anonymous aren't OT3s and we've read your sekrit OT3 skripture, where are the sudden deaths? The pneumonia? The insomnia? Oh, but you'll claim that we haven't read the ACTUAL OT3 dox. Then, why is the CoS claiming copyright infringement?

The fact that none of you seem the slightest bit concerned that some the allegations might be true says a lot about your character. As long as you continue to reap benefits from the tech, you could care less. But then again, isn't selfishness (for lack of a better word) high on the tone scale?

Here's a protip: Quit parading around the world with your yellow tents "helping" people and start with the people in your church.

Touch assisting a million people will not make up for the fact the several of your own sat and watched as Lisa McPherson died.

Go yell at an ashtray.

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 21 2008 @ 11:41AM
Susan says:

I am sorry to see the author of this article has nothing better to do than attack religious people who work to make the world a better place. In a world of global warming, huge autism rates, tens of thousands killed by earthquakes, gas over $4, terrorism, etc., I spend my time helping others. As a Scientologist of 33 years, I save marriages, help kids stay off drugs, and show others how to help their fellow human beings. If more people spent time helping their fellows rather than spreading chaos and attacking people of good will, the world be more healthy and sane for all of us. Shame on you.
Susan

Posted On: Wednesday, May. 21 2008 @ 10:19PM
Anon, Anon, My Boyfriend's Back! says:

Susan, you are have obviously been sent here with copypasta to try to have the "last word". Does that really sway the tone of the article or comments? You're saying the same thing that a few before you have said and to no greater effect.

Everything you mention has absolutely nothing to do with what we're protesting. We aren't protesting the good Scientology does, we're protesting the bad. And, believe me, there is plenty of bad to protest.

So, instead of thinking about getting your stats up (it is Staturday, amirite?), think about the people you could really help right in your own church.

But then, this is all just a PR game for you guys:

1. Find an article critical of Scientology

2. Make a scathing comment about the author. Call him a bigot or some such nasty word.

*OR*

2. Make a comment praising Scientology and how successful/helpful/xenutastic you are because of it

3. Implore people to find out for themselves at a completely objective (haha) scientology.org

4. Gain 1000xp (xenu points) for Staturday!!

Believe it or not, this is a pretty accurate operation within Scientology. I admit, I added 4. But, if you don't believe me, check out the leaked LEAF/CCHR emails on Wikileaks and find out for yourself.

Oh, and, Susan? STATCRASH.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 22 2008 @ 10:47AM
Davey says:

"Well, I pointed out to Karin that asking that question is like asking why haven’t I written any “positive” stories about the mafia." -Tony Ortega

That's what you call a journalistic bitch slap, Karin. Welcome to the truth. It may be painful but it's time you faced it.

Oh and Karin, why were you and your husband forced to disconnect while he was in RPF? You let a criminal cult control and separate your family? Sad,.. very sad for you. You can blow too, just like Jason, Tory and all the other now happy ex-cultists.

Posted On: Friday, May. 23 2008 @ 1:22PM
JoinAnonymous says:

"If 1% of the abuse you've thrown against the Scientologists were true, they would have been gone long ago."


This is an excellent point, it SHOULD have been gone long ago.

For those that see the obviousness of he truth, join the cause at:

www.enturulation.org

Posted On: Saturday, May. 24 2008 @ 12:47AM
Martin says:

Silly scilons can't even address any of the issues, they just come on here to attack the critics and make a sales pitch for their insidious CULT.
What happened to the "ability to communicate about anything to anyone about anything" that scientology claims to give you? All that yelling at ashtrays, hours of sitting around staring, and reciting Alice in Wonderland for nothing?

JUNE 14th GLOBAL PROTEST

Posted On: Saturday, May. 24 2008 @ 11:50PM
Quentin Hubbard says:

To Barbara Jacome: What has scientology done for your husband John Carmichael who has an obsession with "smelling pussy"? Before he was in scientology he was a drug addict, now he is a scientology addict who "smells pussy". Also, prior to scientology, he had several homosexual affairs. Does this still occur?

Posted On: Sunday, Jun. 1 2008 @ 5:32PM
HJN says:

Dear Quentin,
First, people some times take awhile to find their way in life, some never realy find it for themselves, but many do. Along the way, We all commit some harmful acts now and then; like the Governor of NY, or like President clinton; I think he likes pussy by the way. Anyway, Mr. high and mighty or perhaps just Mr. "high"

I happen to know Mr John Carmichael, and I've known him for a long while. He is a very polite, respectful and decient human being. I detest your outragious statements whether true or false. I would suggest, since you haven;t found your way yet; that you take up knitting or basket weaving or perhaps crossword puzzels where you can fill in all of the blank words such as: Pussy, Drugs, Homo Sexual, Biggot and don't forget the word that you're "being", ASSHOLE. Forgive me for any misspelled words.

With lots of love, and little respect.
HJNorman
PS, I have some skeletons in my closet too.

Posted On: Friday, Jun. 13 2008 @ 7:36PM
JOSEPH says:

iT SOUNDS LIKE STEVE HAS A HANDLE ON THE THEOLOGY OF SCIENTOLOGY; MAYBE HE WILL LEAD SOME OF THE FUTURE BY Z-TWIST AND S-TWIST

Posted On: Friday, Oct. 10 2008 @ 6:06PM
Adriana says:

Very informative website. Thank you master! Best regards.

Posted On: Wednesday, Jun. 24 2009 @ 1:22PM

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