Avella is a lying opportunist, among other things.

There were NO threats of any kind made to the owners or workers of O'Flaherty's.

Where is the interview of the pub owner in this article?

The owner has said publicly that he withdrew the use of his premises because he was MISLED by the humaniacs, and did not support banning our business.

Avella is desperately flailing about, trying to grasp any publicity he can, as his run for mayor tanks before it even got started.

Avella will learn the hard way that our small, high profile industry has been kicked around as a political football by far savvier politicians than he - and every single one of them is GONE, while we are still here.

For those interested in the truth:
http://thewhiffletreenyc.blogspot.com/

Councilman Tony Avella is a delusional, desperate and disturbing public figure who continues to spout extreme anti-Irish, anti-horse carriage prejudices for his own cheap publicity gain. The sooner he gets off his high horse and is sent out to pasture, the better off all New Yorkers will be. Tony Avella is a loser. Big time loser. (and Elizabeth Forel, maybe you should think about a new hairdresser? Just a tip old lady).

What about the fact that I have emails stating that this NEVER happened? In fact, I was the one who emailed the manager in the first place expressing my disappointment at the fact that an Irish bar was holding an event to put other Irish people out of business. I received an email back saying that he had been misled by the coalition, and that he was canelling the benefit because he was originally told that it was to help provide better facilities for the horses, NOT to put us out of business. I HAVE these emails. Avella is an outright liar! So is Elizabeth Forel. These people had to make this story up in order to try and tarnish our reputations. This is a publicity tactic. Its not our fault the manager saw through the lies and misinformation that Forel and Avella so readily spew forth.

BTW, to Roy Edroso:

I think you forgot the word "alleged" with regard to the "threats" in your first paragraph.

This is complete sh*t! I cant believe they lied like this! They have gone too far, and this time we MUST make sure their lies are exposed. Threats? Intimidation? And the Voice, being the left wing paper it is, doesnt say "alleged" or even TRY and do some research into this. They take what Avella says as fact? Unreal! The manager cancelled because he didnt want to help them put us out of business. Plain and simple. What is wrong with this paper? Call Abigail and get the emails from her. Do your job and report on this issue without prejudice! I can not belive a newspaper is doing such one sided reporting! Im sickened!

Thank you for writing this article. I am not afraid to put my real name on this (although I will probably get some anonymous nasty comments by the drivers who hide behind made up names) because I spoke with Tighe, the restaurant manager of O'Flaherty's ... and no one from the Voice interviewed me. This past Tuesday, September 16th, after telling our chairperson that he was canceling our fundraiser and why, I called Tighe to confirm it. When we originally met with Tighe, we told him about our organization and our goals. There would have been no reason for us to deceive him since we are proud of what we do and we wanted him to be very, very clear of our intentions. The name of our organization alone tells it all - so he knew exactly what we were all about - Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages. He told us he supported us and hated to see the horses used this way also. We had conversations about this issue. The owner of the restaurant loves horses and keeps them in Ireland. They are opposed to the carriage industry. As a matter of fact, this has never, ever been an anti-Irish campaign although the carriage industry would like you to think it is. I am very proud of the fact that I am first generation Irish. My late mother would be ashamed and saddened if she could see how these people act and treat their horses – what thugs they really are … and how they think they are so entitled that they can bully people into doing what they what. We also have much support from Irish Americans in this country including Fiona Walsh, stand up comic who will be our MC. She was wonderful recently in her one-person show at 1st Irish. And we have the support of two Irish animal rights/protection organizations in Ireland. No we are anything but anti-Irish. After all - I certainly do not hate myself...or my relatives in the old country.:-) But there are Irish and there are Irish.

Tighe told me he had to cancel because his restaurant had received several threatening calls from members of the carriage industry. They had most likely seen the announcement in the e-newsletter I send out every week. Tighe said he was threatened with "riots" ... his words ... and he was afraid for the safety of his employees. He admitted he was worried that someone would throw a brick through his restaurant window. I sympathized with his concerns but, of course, was not happy. But we will survive because we have a lot of support. He did not want to make a report to the police or probably talk to reporters. He just wanted to bow out and make it all go away. This is not the kind of restaurant that is frequented by the drivers. It is on restaurant row and popular with tourists. There is certainly no reason for us to lie about this because this causes us more work as we look for another place. The best defense is always the truth.

Michaeleen - Be a man and stop hiding behind all your many made up names. It is absurd since it is very clear who you are. All you and Abigail can do is to call us liars with nothing to substantiate what you are saying – besides you are not Irish anyway. And Abigail - too bad that you do not like my hair or the fact that I am middle aged - much older and experienced than you. I happen to like my hair very much - I like the color, the texture and the fact that it is thick. yes - I am very happy with it. You have mentioned this before - how pathetic for you. You have called me old and haggard on a You Tube blog. What does age have to do with it anyway? I happen to be proud of every wrinkle I have and would never consider attacking someone based on appearance. Did you think that I was going to cry in front of the mirror because you criticize the way I look; that I am so shallow? It is these kinds of anonymous comments that make you look so bad and so desperate … to attack someone for their age or appearance … as if you were some kind of beauty queen or arbiter of taste. It does show what kind of very cruel person you really are. But finally, Abigail - let's stick to the facts and the issues and leave hair, age and appearance out of it.

Back in the early part of the year, Manhattan Mini Storage received threatening calls from the carriage industry - this time they left their names. The calls were taped and I heard them later. The two men who made the calls - one is an owner/driver at Clinton Park Stables. He spoke with the woman in charge of the advertising campaign. She was very upset and intimidated by them so it worked in that respect. The industry, for those who do not know, wanted to stop the Manhattan Mini Storage ads from running. They did not succeed. The ads ran all over NYC – on telephone kiosks and bill boards. The copy read “Stop cruelty to carriage horses.”

Around the same time, two PETA activists were attacked by a driver while they were at the hack line watching the horses. The driver’s face can be seen just before he pulled a mask over his face. The video is on You Tube. www.youtube.com. Search for “anti carriage activists attacked.”

Personal information for several of us has been put on blogs anonymously, which included where I worked and that I was being investigated for corruption and god knows what else. Abigail was responsible for many of the comments and received a cease and desist letter from my lawyer with a promise of legal action if she continued to accuse me of corruption. It is one thing to say you don't like someone's hair or they are "old" - but quite another to accuse someone of impersonating police (yes that was done by another owner) or of corruption. Someone (again anonymously) said that my interests had something to do with the land that the stables were on. It did not even make sense. If anyone of you think that I would be so stupid as to mix business with this issue, you are dumber than I thought. Any time I put into this issue is on my own time – evenings, days off, weekends, lunchtime, etc.

But the industry continues to try and get me by reporting me to the City Clerk as doing illegal lobbying (NOT – our expenses do not meet the threshold - after all there are no salaries involved) and anything else they can think of. All of the members of this organization are honest and very careful about doing the right thing. The stakes are too high. But the industry will continue to desperately look to make someone look bad. They want to shut us up.

There is another Blinders screening on Monday night. This is an expose of the carriage industry by Donny Moss. Visit www.blindersthemovie.com and look at screenings.

And I would like to remind everyone that all the major and national animal protection organizations support a ban of this industry: The ASPCA, Humane Society of the US; PETA, Friends of Animals, In Defense of Animals, League of Humane Voters, Rational Animal + many other smaller grassroots but vital organizations … representing thousands upon thousands of people. Surely, these organizations know about animals. So you can attack me or Donny Moss or Tony Avella – but there are plenty of others and there will be others coming after us. We will not give up.

We are always putting ourselves above others. The fact remains that these horses do not belong on the streets of NY. Did these people threaten this restaurant, probably so, otherwise they would have been made to feel uncomfortable by the situation. But that doesn't change the fact that these horses face a life time of torture and inhumane treatment. And who are the Irish, the American or whoever have the right to make them suffer.

It is just plain sad that there are those who feel their lives are more valuable than the life of a living, breathing creature who has done nothing to get the treatment that is forced upon them. If you want to take a carriage ride, go do it on a farm. NY is hardly meant for cars to be driven in, not a poor, innocent horse.

DO THE RIGHT THING!

My Irish blood is boiling! The carriage horse industry should be banned from New York City for good. These horses live a sad life in New York City and are constantly put into danger by city traffic. The horses should be in pastures in the countryside, not worked for long hours every day and kept in little stables in Hell's Kitchen warehouses without any time to frolic. I'm embarrassed that the thug drivers are using the Irish race to defend this cruel trade--They don't even deserve to wear green on St. Patrick's Day.

Pity the poor carriage horse drivers, who don't have to know anything (like know how to drive) or do anything (they're on videotape reading magazines while operating their vehicles [horse-drawn carriages]. On the other hand, to list a few facts: the horses are kept in completely inhumane conditions, in tiny stalls; are constantly standing on hard surfaces which are bad for their hoofs; have respiratory disease from working nose-to-tailpipe all day. Yeah, I'm a humaniac. A PROUD HUMANIAC. I care. Wish the same could be said about the carriage drivers. When I first took the NYS drivers test I failed because of driving too slowly. What the hell are these things doing in traffic? They're a hazard to humans! So do something for people you lazy creeps. Get a real job!

I wish the Village Voice did a story on how this brutal carriage has terrorized us on the street because they want to maintain the status quo. They punctured our wheels, they call the cops on us to give us bogus summons, they chase us away from the hack line. They call me names like crackhead, homeless and wetback whenever they see me. This industry works above the law and I hope for the city sake and the horses' sake it is ban soon.

The horse-drawn carriage industry uses threats, intimidation and violence. These videos of recent attacks on pedestrians speak for themselves. Youtube requires that you sign in and and verify your age b/c of the violence:

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DHRjg6851DrI

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DwGbTb1tOLKc

Why are the only posted comments on this interview the ones bashing Mr. Avella? The horse is not a "thing" it is a liviing breathing creature of beauty and i see no beauty in the unhealthy conditions they are forced to work in.I am going to support this bill... after personally joining a blog once and seeing the name calling that the operator/owners use against people that disagree with them to get their points across and the recent threats to the Pub that was going to host a benefit to ban the horse drawn carriages .. I say is this my America? Is this allowed in NYC? Shame on you bloomberg for not taking a stand to ban this archaic, unsafe practice in your own back yard! Mr. Avella you are a very brave man to take this industry on and I commend you.

The carriage horse industry is cruel to horses. The industry is personally attacking the people who organized this fundraiser because they can never defend the deaths, injuries and suffering by these horses. Please visit http://www.banhdc.org/ for for information, and please boycott horse-drawn carriages!

First, if you wrote this article, Roy Edroso, learn to proof read and to write.

Second, of course the carriage trade's bad apples are going to deny anyone made any threats. Of course they are going to lie so, there is no point in responding to them.

Third, Horses have been abused by members of the public forever. The ASPCA was founded by Mr. Berg in the 1860s because of rampant cruelty to them in NYC.

To the blog moderator:

Where are all the many comments that have been posted this morning? This is looking kind of biased.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVWv6jR0kKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRjg6851DrI

2 clips that show the carriage industry despictable tactics to hide the truth about the cruelty of this industry.
Also the blog of the carriage industry is full of false tales which is why he won't mention his name or stable. It is full of lies.

Why don’t the people of the horse drawn carriage industry try to get real jobs where you actually have to work for a living instead of exploiting horses by forcing them to do the work for you. You choose to force these horses to pull carriages through the high trafficked streets of New York City, there upon risking the lives of pedestrians and your horses. You expose your horses to extreme weather conditions. The only reputation your industry has is one that portrays cruelty and inhumane treatment of horses. You are not capable of treating these sentient beings with the care and compassion they deserve. This would mean allowing them to live as horses, free from your FORCED HAND.

As an advocate for animal rights and a supporter of Tony Avella and the Coalition to Ban Horse Drawn Carriages, it is evident that we care about your horses.

Councilman Tony Avella is a man of intelligence, class, and high morals and ethics. I am certain all of you in the horse carriage industry do not know what any of these words mean.

The event was for the Coalition to ban horse Drawn Carriage, of course the pub owner need what it was for. Abigail is from Clinton Stables and she is one of the main ones who harasses people.

The event was for the Coalition to ban horse Drawn Carriage, of course the pub owner knew what it was for. Abigail is from Clinton Stables and she is one of the main ones who harasses people.

I am a resident of the district that Tony Avella represents and I am ashamed to admit that I voted for this ignoramous when he first ran for City Council. He was a liar then and is still a liar!
Here we are facing a big finiancial crisis in the States and especially in New York and this idiot is trying to put more people out of work. The Horse and Carriage industry has never looked so good, all the horses are well fed and groomed, and the carriages are in great repair. These carriages are light weight and all the wheels operate on a ball bearing system which a child could pull.

If MR.Avella would pay as much attention to his district as he does to the Carriage Industry maybe we could reclaim Bayside to the beautiful neighborhood that it once was, and clean up the streets and parks.

As a senior citizen I have not seen one thing that MR Avella has done for us, he did send out a flyer a few months ago, where he was trying to take credit for what other politicians have done.

Has anyone protesting carriage horses stopped to think what will happen if they get their way, and suddenly, carriage horses no longer have the same method of "earning a living"? They'll be turned into glue!

Things could be worse - you could have Quinn as Mayor.

No, the horses will not be turned to glue if the industry is banned because the coalition to ban the industry has seen to it that sanctuaries are willing to take ALL of the horses and retire them peacefully. But if it's left up to the Carriage Industry, you can be sure they will be turned to glue, because their horse turn over is sky high and there is no paper trace to these horses! The bullying and lobbying are the reasons this industry exist today, and it's long past time it was stopped!

Glue factory? Good gravy, "New Yawka," are you living in a 1950s sitcom or something? 99.999999% of glue today is synthetic, not animal-based. Come into the 21st century before making any more silly arguments.

This industry has goons to harass people. Francesca Alesse
who owns Ablaze Video and gotham carriages has made a clip full of lies with ugly carriage drivers faces and horses. But no picture of their legs or the stables or the traffic they worked in. Also no picture of all the dead horses in this industry. p.s. The film was a stink bomb, a five year old could have filmed better. i would advice not to hire
Ablaze services.
Phone: (917) 365-1320
F.Alesse@ablazevideo.com

Abigail from Clinton has verbally abused several times. She is deranged and dangerous. I feel sorry for those horses under the care of such a mean cruel person. I love her t-shirt.

As a former New Yorker, I still feel as I felt when I lived in New York City. The carriage horse industry is a blight on the city--as it is a blight on every city that carries this despicable trade. The politics notwithstanding, this industry should be banned completely as he cruel and inhumane practice it is.

It looks as if only one or two from the horse carriage industry wrote ALL the incredibly illiterate messages here - like a child repeating only "they are liers", how primitive! No wonder their leader told them to never speak in public because they make a mess for them. To those who insulted Councilman Tony Avella, I say: "Watch it. You are SO transparent, we know how to get your IDs and hand all of you over to... MAYOR Tony Avella!"!!!

They could learn from Elizabeth Forel's message, above, but all they know is "horse-carriage-money" disregarding the tragedies they cause in traffic.

Elizabeth's message is directed to the mostly intelligent Village Voice readers and others who understand our campaign to eliminate forever this horse-exploiting industry, and to all others who have a healthy brain and heart to understand and/or learn.

I'm appalled at their egoism in not caring that their accidents cause terrible injuries not only to their horses, who also got killed, but to innocent people in Manhattan's dreadfully heavy traffic!

Please do study carefully the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages' website: www.banhdc.org so you can see the soundness and logic of our campaign, as well as the compassion involved in it.

DON'T GET TAKEN FOR A RIDE, STROLL THE PARK INSTEAD FOR RADIANT PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL HEALTH!!! :o)

those carriage drivers take an offensive approach since there is no defense for their cruelty of theses horses. One of the carriage driver physically threaten me last week. They all act above the law. Poor horses are kept in small stalls and are put down so quickly after a short miserable life in NYC

Allow me, gentle reader, to introduce to you the carriage horse's worst enemy - the "humaniac":

A humaniac is a person who identifies him/herself as an "animal rights" advocate. Now, a humaniac differs greatly from the average, normal person who is concerned with animal welfare - the everyday concern that most of us have in caring for and enjoying our pets, seeing that animals are not wantonly harmed, etc. No, the humaniac disdains the term "animal welfare" as a human condescension; the humaniac (to varying degrees depending on which organization they belong to) wants to outlaw all human interaction with animals. Their life's work is to harangue and lie and spread misinformation about any pursuit they deem not in line with their agenda (just why they feel compelled to do this is fascinating - we'll get to it in a future post, I promise ;-)

Unfortunately for us and our horses here in NYC, we are one of the humaniacs' primo targets, as we fit the bill perfectly: a small, high-profile industry with very limited resources. You can see what an excellent opportunity our industry is for these maniacal misfits. They would rather see a horse dead than have a job. To them, a carriage horse doing what it was bred to do, and living a comfortable, content existence alongside his driver, is no different from Michael Vick and a pile of mutilated fighting dogs or undercover horror videos revealing grotesque cruelties at factory farms. Indeed, humaniacs have made public statements comparing the carriage horse trade to the enslavement of people of African descent, and the Holocaust of the Jewish people during WWII.

What?! Surely it should be easy to defeat people who rave and spout such outrageous lunacy!
Yes, one would think.....

TONY AVELLA AND HIS LIST OF LIES

LIE:
"Other major cities across the planet have banned
horse drawn carriages."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: The fact is that there are horse drawn carriages in nearly EVERY major city in both the US and Europe.
_________________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are forced to walk several miles back to their stables at the end of the day."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: NO carriage stable is further than ONE mile from the park, and two of them 1/2 mile.
_________________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are worked in illegal temperatures."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: The horses are not allowed to work below 18F or above 89F, and there have been NO summonses issued in violation of these laws in the last 14 years.
_______________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are kept in narrow stalls."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: EACH AND EVERY carriage horse is housed in a BOX STALL (unlike many riding horses and police horses in the city, which are kept in "straight" stalls)
_______________________________________
LIE:
"The horses ...are improperly fed"
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: EVERY carriage horse receives a high quality diet of oats/sweetfeed/pellets and hay. NO tickets have EVER been given for "improper feeding".
______________________________________

LIE:
"There is only one water basin at Central Park."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: There are TWO horse troughs at Central Park, and every carriage originating its ride anywhere on 59th Street passes EACH one on EACH ride.
_____________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are not properly watered."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: A horse that is "not properly watered" would soon sicken and die from complications of dehydration. NO HORSE has ever died from dehyration.

LIES, LIES, LIES

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbl3FPrh714&feature=related

These comments are so sad to read. It is so clear from the coalition's position that this industry is over. Would you care about the owners of brothels losing their jobs in hard times? Would it matter that hard times had fallen on human traffikers when the economy was rough?? Listen to yourselves...pure insanity. The reality is that the only people who want this horse drawn carriage industry to continue are either people who know NOTHING about the reality of what goes on behind the scenes, or those who are currently running it and don't care how the horses are treated or how much money it takes to "grease some palms" and keep it going. Pathetic. New Yorkers, raise your damn heads out of your grind and do something about this!!!

Thank you to Slee for proving my earlier point.

Attempting to equate human trafficking with carriage horses is a perfect example of how morally bankrupt your side is.

Keep up the good work making our points for us!

Councilman Tony Avella has the courage to stand up to the Irish Mafia who perpetuate the tradition of animal abuse and exploitation of these horses. Unfortunately, it may take a human fatality before any sane action is taken to get carriages off the streets of NYC once and for all.

Wow, you people all need to get a life! Especially the "Elizabeth Forel" poster. My goodness, lady, take a chill pill. 7:22 a.m. on a Saturday morning you have nothing better to do than write a vitriolic, angry, defensive posting on the Village Voice webdsite? Maybe you should be crying in the mirror. But not because of your hair. We all love animals, but this blog tells me this city has some really really questionable folks in it.

Yes, Wow, there are questionable folks in New York City when the Dept of Ed is renting below market the building to house shamrock stables. Guess what, their lobbyist Thomas McMahon is the brother of council member michael mcMahon and the husband of Bloomberg deputy mayor. Something is real rotten in NYC. End the cruelty and support the ban.

Elizabeth Forel has struggled for years - since the 80s - to make a name for herself in the NYC 'animal rescue' sector. She was always given the boot and/or outshined by real animal rescue people - the people who dedicate themselves to actually working with unwanted animals, such as feline catch/neuter/release efforts, etc. Elizabeth - who never met a camera she didn't like - could never get the spotlight that she craved. Latching onto the carriage horses, she hit the jackpot. She now finds herself feted by politicos and celebutards, while STILL not having a modicum of evidence of actually helping even ONE animal.
Groups that tirelessly rescue strays and address other animal welfare concerns do more in a week for animals than E. Forel has done since 1989. (And yeah, I'm well aware that some of the rescue folks don't like us here in the carriage biz - but that's OK, I like to think of them as just misguided. I applaud their efforts and donate on a regular basis.)
The bottom line is: there are REAL animal issues out there, and our fat, fit, beloved horses don't qualify for anyone's sympathy - and surely don't qualify as pawns in someone's self-seeking greed for the spotlight.

why do the carriage horse industry insist on bashing people personally? There is no need. We know you hate that your industry is on the outs. It's always the same when people try to make a change for good, for humanity and a kinder planet for humans and animals. Focus on the issue if you must but stop using forums/blogs to post vitriolic hate messages.
www.blindersthemovie.com for the REAL story.

Oirish says: "why do(es) the carriage horse industry insist on bashing people personally?"

OMG - Pot meet kettle! @@

Um - calling me an animal abuser and peprpetrating LIES of every stripe about what I do with and to my horse isn't PERSONAL?

Could you really possibly be so blind as to not see that people who feed and groom and work with and vet and house and retire and LOVE their horses take it PERSONALLY when people malign them in the most vicious way possible?

I have worked with and had horses for 30 years. I have found excellent "forever" homes for every single horse I have ever retired. I have NEVER abused any animal in any way, and you can go whistle if you think I will hold back any information I have against the people who unfairly malign me.

"Bash" indeed - that is ALL the humaniacs know how to do.

BTW, Oirish - where is your pious sermon to those posters here who used terms like "thugs" and the "Irish Mafia"? Not "vitriolic" enough for ya?

How come no one has mentioned that having slow moving carriages on NYC streets with all the bad traffic is just CRAZY. Next time you are sitting in a taxi or car and you wondering why the traffic is so bad--look at the horse carriages.
If you like NY then sign the petition to ban these out dated crazy slow moving dirty carriages once and for all. If Bloomberg really cares about improving the quality of life, he would get rid of them. Send emails to Bloomberg telling him to get real.

Jesus Christ, "Michaleen," enough already. You are coming across as a lunatic. Ms. Forel's comment above, while lengthy, has all the poise and intelligence your posts lack.

Thu says: "Michaleen, enough already"

Typical fascistic humaniac tactic - slander at will, and attempt to silence anyone who answers.

Thu says: "Forel's comment...has all the poise and intelligence your posts lack."

This statement is also in keeping with the telltale signs of an AR freak - groundless insults instead of countering the facts presented (i.e., the post about E. Forel's history, plus the one where I disprove everyone of Avella's lies 13 comments back).

You are welcome to have any opinion you like on my comments - but save your breath telling to me to be quiet.

Not gonna happen.

Don't like my comments? Feel free to click on by, you won't hurt my feelings LOL

We have eaten bigger things than E. Forel for breakfast - chewed up and spit out C list actors and 2-bit political hacks (Peggy Parker, the CHAC, Mary Tyler Moore, Robert Dryfoos, Katherine Freed, et al)and all their slavering minions for 25 years.

They're all gone, and we're still here.

The new crop will meet the same fate, trust me. ;-)

Paul Debraccio - Contact the City, and under the FoIA, demand to see the Environmental Impact Study done in the 90s re: impact on traffic from horse drawn carriages.

Don't be too disappointed when you see that they concluded there was none to speak of. lol

Michaleen:
You should continue overcharging unsuspecting tourists while you still can. Horse-drawn carriages will phased out and replaced with a humane alternative that doesn't pollute the streets and park with manure and put horses and people at risk.
It's just a matter of time.

Yes, Wow, there are questionable folks in New York City when the Dept of Ed is renting below market the building to house shamrock stables. Guess what, their lobbyist Thomas McMahon is the brother of council member michael mcMahon and the husband of Bloomberg deputy mayor. Something is real rotten in NYC. End the cruelty and support the ban.

We have seen for years, it is impossible for any agency to monitor the horses in the carriage industry properly and ensure their health and well-being. No amount of regulation can protect the public from the danger of horses who bolt when they become frightened. New York City has the highest horse-drawn carriage accident rate in the country, and horses suffer lung damage from inhaling exhaust fumes.

According to a NYC comptroller’s audit, which found a litany of problems in the carriage industry, from lax veterinary care to infrequent inspections. The audit also found that the horses were not provided with enough water, were at risk of overheating on hot asphalt and were forced to stand in their own waste because of inadequate drainage.

Vets even say that ‘Lameness and hoof deterioration are inevitable when a horse spends its life walking or jogging on the unnaturally concussive asphalt of city streets

Elizabeth...your letter from your lawyer friend was a joke and you surely know you dont have a legal leg to stand on. Especially when you have slandered our industry MANY times over in the press. And as for this pile of lies you and your friend Avella have thrown together to get a little press, well, I would have been more careful about who you chose to lie about. I know Tadghe is not happy about what has occured. His name and bar is being used to gain public attention for your lost cause. Its not fair to him and certainly not fair to us. You know as much as we do, that this was made up. You and avella should be ashamed of yourselves. And as for your hair, Im not the one who commented. As for my horses, Im pretty sure you wouldnt be able to say anything bad about how my horses live if you actually saw it first hand. I would like to know what you people would do if we decided we wanted to take your business, livlihood, and animals away from you, throw your family into the street, and call you animal abusers and make up lies about you? You probably wouldnt be too happy. You people have become a joke. Ever wonder why the press doesnt even show up for your silly rallies and press conferences anymore?

Elizabeth Forel as no family, dear poster. That is why she is spending her "life" obsessing about yours. If she was normal like the rest of us with families, children, spouses, careers, animals, houses, vacations, and the rest of the the things that make up a life...she wouldn't be up at 7:22 a.m. on a Saturday morning filing up a little read blog with anger and lies. I admit I posted the comment about her hair. Sorry if you got the blame. But her hair is a good example of how blind she is. Maybe she is the one who needs to take the blinders off. She's so busy being angry and trying unsuccesfully to turn our city into some weird, animal-less vegetarian planet, she forgot to get a life. How sad. (on another note, if she really has Irish roots, and I doubt she does, shame on her.)

Yeah for Tony Avella! The carriage horse industry is notoriously cruel and I would love to see it removed from NYC.

What does having or not having a family have to do with cruelty to horses? It doesnt make you more or less qualified to care about an issue.
This is unnecessary personal stuff that only muddies the waters of an already dirty pond.

Hey Just annoyed:
There is a post here that mentions ONLY the facts, and challenges every distortion and lie that E. Forel subscribes to & repeats.

No muddy water or dirty ponds - just straightforward facts.

I should know, I posted it.

Funny, I didn't see you comment on that one...here it is, in case you missed it:

LIE:
"Other major cities across the planet have banned
horse drawn carriages."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: The fact is that there are horse drawn carriages in nearly EVERY major city in both the US and Europe.
_________________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are forced to walk several miles back to their stables at the end of the day."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: NO carriage stable is further than ONE mile from the park, and two of them 1/2 mile.
_________________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are worked in illegal temperatures."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: The horses are not allowed to work below 18F or above 89F, and there have been NO summonses issued in violation of these laws in the last 14 years.
_______________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are kept in narrow stalls."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: EACH AND EVERY carriage horse is housed in a BOX STALL (unlike many riding horses and police horses in the city, which are kept in "straight" stalls)
_______________________________________
LIE:
"The horses ...are improperly fed"
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: EVERY carriage horse receives a high quality diet of oats/sweetfeed/pellets and hay. NO tickets have EVER been given for "improper feeding".
______________________________________

LIE:
"There is only one water basin at Central Park."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: There are TWO horse troughs at Central Park, and every carriage originating its ride anywhere on 59th Street passes EACH one on EACH ride.
_____________________________________
LIE:
"The horses are not properly watered."
-Tony Avella, The Brian Lehrer Show 12/11/2007

TRUTH: A horse that is "not properly watered" would soon sicken and die from complications of dehydration. NO NYC HORSE has ever died from dehyration.

LIES, LIES, LIES

to the idiot who calls themselves "sick of elizabeths lies", you are a sad excuse of a human being and u are lazy!!!!! if ur livlihood depends on making money from a horse, u are such a loser. u all sit on ur lazy as*es reading newspapers as a horses does all the work. i would love to put blinders on each and everyone of u nasty f*cking carriage drivers, feed u food tainted with pigeon sh*t, make you live in a dirty warehouse, pull a heavy carriage of lazy fu*ks like yourselves, put nails in your feet, give you numbers like the horses, and sell u all to slaughter houses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u dont give 2 sh*ts about those creatures so dont say that we are trying to take away ur animals like u fu*king care about them. go fu*k yourself and oh yea, get a real job

The carriage horses have no pasture on which to graze and roam freely.

These herd animals have no opportunity to interact with each other.

The nervous prey animals spook and cause fatal accidents.

I can't believe we're even having this discussion.

Carriage Industry folks here would have people believe that Elizabeth and all the rest of us animal rights folks have not seen with our own eyes how the horses are treated, therefore they invite us to the stables. We see with our own eyes every single day how the horses live, nose to tailpipe, enduring noises and traffic that they should never be amongst! We see them go to empty water troughs looking for water when there is none, and we see them standing in water when all the particular driver has to do is move them a foot or two! Not one of your stables, despite much needed improvements in a couple of them provides the horses with daily time in green pasture, not one of them. Horses need that, as do cows! The public also should not be fooled into believing suggestions and insinuations that animal rights people don't care about the jobs of carriage industry people. Of course we care! But hear this, and hear it good, this fight to save NYC Carriage Horses from suffering and being deprived of their most basic environmental needs has been going on for some 30 years! That's a lot more time than most people have to prepare to look for other work, or to have a backup when you know your job may one day be in jeopardy. But more importantly, Mr. Avella, who does have a heart will include in his Legislation provisions to help those in the Carriage Industry find employment! The lies are coming from the Carriage Industry, not the other way around.

Barbara-
The carriage horses do indeed have an opportunity to graze, roam freely, and interact with other horses in that environment.

Carriage horses get rotational turn out during the course of the year - some in PA, some in upstate NY.

These "nervous prey animals" can be found every day of the week, snoozing with a hind leg cocked, totally at rest, while sirens and every other type of noise going by. Just as police horses can be seen doing the same.

Occasionally there is an accident - just as there is is in every other possible aspect of life on this planet.

There have been TWO "spook" related equine fatalities (and only 4 equine fatalities combined) in the last TWENTY FIVE years - an amazing safety record that no other equine pursuit - racing, equestrian events, polo, et al - can touch. Hell, just since Eight Belles died, over 100 horses have died in racing in this country!

Speaking of 'grazing and roaming free'- I suggest you take a ride an hour and a half to 2 hours in any direction out of NYC, and you will indeed see horses 'roaming free' - only many are turned out in muddy or dust paddocks; 'backyard horses'that are hardly given a second look, no fly spray, daily grooming, affection, etc. Many are wormy and spare, with no muscle tone, and no job to do for to satisfy their mental and physical fitness requirements. Not a great life.

When you get back from your ride, I suggest you Google the horse crisis in this country - the "perfect storm" of high feed prices, a slow economy, and the closing of all slaughterhouses in the US has created an abominable high rate of abandoned horses, especially in the South.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that saying horses are 'herd animals', suggesting that they should be in a herd at all times - is as silly as saying dogs are 'pack animals'and should be given access to a pack at all times - especially since many who criticize us see nothing wrong with keeping one shut up in an Eastside apartment 10 hours a day and then taking it for a nice walk on the concrete.

BTW - horses in city stables can see each other from stall to stall, and if you ask any equine expert, they will tell you that there is much 'socializing' and comfort for the horses to be had in this arrangement. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

To "nunya business",
Your comments were so eloquent I can hardly respond, but let me try. THIS is a prime example of the filthy mouthed, ignorant, deluded, and self righteous animal rights extremists in your city. You people should stop lying and spend more time fighting for animals who actually NEED to be fought for. Ive been around these horses first hand. Their stables, and farms where they vacation as well. I own a retired cariage horse that I adopted from a nice Irish man about 7 years ago. My friends in Sullivan county have SEVEN retired carriage horses. I am in touch with the previous owner from time to time and I can honestly say he really, truely loves his horses. These people are not "horse abusers" or "exploiters". These people love working with horses. It is their lives, their passion. These horses have been trained specifically for this job. They were bred to pull. There is no cruelty in this! The stables all have box stalls and the horses get to go on vacation for months out of every yr. And to keep perpetuating this lie about slaughter is a disgrace. Carriage horses are given to people all over the area every year. I know of at least 20 carriages horses in Sullivan county alone. One lady in the industry has taken it upon herself to find homes for these horses. She has her own farm where she keeps all of her retired carriage horses, her horses on vacation from the city, and temporarily keeps the ones who are looking for homes. Lies like these prove that you cant win this battle with the truth. Any equine vet worth his salt would see this industry is not cruel or inhumane. It is an iconic part of nyc, which is being trampled on by the animal rights movement. Thank goodness your city council can see through your lies. It would be the biggest shame if there were no more horses in nyc.

Foreclosure and yes, poor economy have caused abandonment of horses as well as all previously cared for animals. But abandonment was going on steadily way before the closing of slaughter houses! Your justification for keeping horses in a cruel and unnatural environment is because some horse farmers elsewhere don't care properly for their horses? You may think of yourself as better than they, but to me you are in same boat as they. Why don't you move your horses to the country and show these people how it should be done, if you care so much? You can charge people money to come and see untethered horses in their natural environment, I'd pay to see that if it's humane!

While I am sure the Village Voice blog editor is having a field day with all of these crazy postings, I also quite sure that everyone on both sides of the "issue" are heartfelt and compassionate about their stakes (note to animal activists, I said "stake" not "steak"...no pun intended). I believe the horses are okay here in New York City, and I see their beauty, strength and contentment each day around the park. Could the fantasy of a perfectly green pasture and a leisurely existence be the ideal for them? Of course. Is that reality? No, not really. What is important is that they do get that Disney ending after only about 10 years of service (note to animal activists, that is really the truth, regardless of how you want to spin it). So, on that ponderable note, I bid you all adieu. To the animal activists, I say keep your passion, but put it in the right place. To the horse carriage owners and drivers, I say keep up the good work. Your horses are gorgeous and make my heart swell. Our City adores and loves them, and even in our strong disagreements on where they should be, I think everyone on this blog would and should on that.

To Susan Davis:
SPCA of Monterey County sees record horse intakes.
By Jessica Lyons

“Horses are not 1,000-pound dogs,” says Gary Tiscornia, executive director of the SPCA for Monterey County. Apparently this comes as a shock to some local horse owners.
Horse abuse and neglect complaints– and instances of owners dumping their animals at the SPCA– are way up, Tiscornia says. In ’06, humane officers received, on average, eight equine calls a month. In ’07, they averaged 15 calls. Thus far in ’08, it’s been about 19 calls a month.

When SPCA officers investigate the complaints, they often find skinny, malnourished animals or horses whose hooves haven’t been seen by a farrier in a long time. Some people simply chose to abandon their animals. “We actually have people calling us and giving up their horses, showing up with a trailer and giving us their horses,” Tiscornia says.

“Since the first of this year, we’ve had 13 horses come into our barn,” he says. “In a normal year, we’d handle about five horse cases– five all year.”

In previous years, when SPCA officers would investigate a case that didn’t require them to immediately seize a neglected animal, they’d typically educate the owners about equine care and the owner would comply. At follow-up visits, the problem would be fixed. “What they are seeing now to a much greater degree,” Tiscornia says, “is: ‘I can’t afford it. I want you to take my horses.’ ”

The economy is down, and horses aren’t cheap– nor is horse care. Farmers make more money putting corn into ethanol production (as opposed to food for humans or animals) and this makes grain more expensive. The cost of hay has risen 25 percent since 2006, Tiscornia says. Skyrocketing fuel prices mean it costs more money to transport horses– and to deliver grain and hay. Boarding is more expensive these days, too. “It’s almost a perfect storm of economic problems that are leading people to want to get rid of their horses,” Tiscornia says. And while folks continue to adopt kitties and puppies– and even older cats and dogs– they aren’t as likely to adopt an unwanted horse that will live between 30 and 40 years.

“In the last two years, we have not euthanized a healthy dog or cat at the SPCA,” he says, “and we certainly don’t want to be euthanizing horses. With dogs and cats, we’re having a good deal of luck placing them in homes, and that’s not going to happen with horses. That’s why we’re looking at it as a crisis.”

Susan Davis - how many horses do you feed and care for, btw?

Susan Davis:
TIME Magazine
An Epidemic of Abandoned Horses
By Pat Dawson Wednesday, May. 28, 2008

Denkai Animal Sanctuary in Carr, Colorado.

The pace of animal rescue has skyrocketed the past year, especially for horses, as people from Colorado who have lost their properties in the national housing crisis abandon them when they move out.
The global food and fuel crisis is resulting in more than just people going hungry. Rising grain and gas prices, as well as the closure of American slaughterhouses, have contributed to a virtual stampede of horses being abandoned — some starving — and turned loose into the deserts and plains of the West to die cruel and lonesome deaths. Horse rescue projects, which are mostly small, volunteer operations with limited land and resources, are feeling the consequences of this convergence of events. In the meantime, many now unaffordable horses are being sold to abbatoirs south of the border where inhumane methods of slaughter are practiced.

"It's a growing problem. Basically, it's the economy," says Brent Glover, who has run Idaho's Orphan Acres since 1975 and has found new homes for 1,600 rescued horses. "We're getting calls constantly." With more horses coming onto his 50-acre refuge, he is feeling the pinch of a hay bill that has risen from $28,000 to $80,000 this year, not to mention rising transportation and grain costs. "It's a horrible mess of bad consequences," says Colorado State University animal sciences Professor Temple Grandin. "People are turning them loose because of the decline in discretionary spending."

Outside Pueblo, Colorado, 101 rescued horses graze on 850 acres at Dreamcatchers Equine Sanctuary, and more are on the way. "It's a very scary situation right now," explains manager Julie DeMuesy. "Everybody's stressed to the max. It exploded for us at the end of 2007." Some horses are coming from people who have had their mortgages foreclosed, and can't afford to feed their steeds. "We're trying desperately to reduce our herd [by sending horses] to good homes. It's become a revolving door — They're coming in as fast as they are going out to new homes."

And the problem isn't limited to the West. Earlier this week, nearly 120 starving horses (along with some ponies and donkeys) were taken from a ranch of a Central Florida woman who had become overwhelmed by the demands of caring for the rescued animals.

Another reason for the rise of numbers, in addition to economics, is the absence of U.S. slaughterhouses. (The last three were shut in 2007 after several court rulings came down against horse slaughter for human consumption.) Says DeMusey: "We're seeing a lot of elderly horses and horses with special needs that normally would be sent to slaughter." Says Montana livestock transporter John Chaffee: "What can you do with all these horses? You can't bury 'em all. I have nothing against eating horse meat. I wouldn't eat it, but millions of people in the world do." Chaffee says he has stopped hauling horses to a plant in southern Alberta, Canada, because of costlier trucking restrictions and Canadian humane-group pressures at border crossings. "People who protest slaughter ought to have a bunch of these old horses starving to death in their backyards."

Colorado State's Grandin, who helped refine standards for humane livestock slaughter, says Americans have an "ick" factor when it comes to the idea of horseflesh, equating it, she says "killing and eating pets." But, Grandin argues, "the problem is, these are 800- to 1,200-pound pets. When they shut down those plants, I said we've got to avoid alternatives worse than slaughter. But we have not, and all my worse nightmares have come true."

Chaffee says horses that are taken north to Canada are treated humanely. But with the long-distance hauls now being prohibitive, horses in the southern U.S. are being laundered through a series of dealers into Mexico. Says Colorado State's Grandin: "At the Mexican border, they just wave the trucks through. The conditions down there are horrible." Proposed legislation to outlaw U.S. horses for slaughter may get passed, says Grandin, but the law won't be enforceable because Mexican "kill buyers" can circumvent the law by labeling horses as breed stock or for riding purposes. And such a law may not ameliorate the plight of American horses in an economic downturn.
************
SD -
If you think that fat, fit, sleek, friendly carriage horses who are vetted, housed, groomed, shod, fed & watered aren't any better off than these horses, then you are beyond hope.

Your intellectual dishonesty and lack of critical thinking is staggering, and it is those rampant 'qualities' that will be the undoing of your 'cause'.

SD-
What is a'natural' environment for a horse?
Jumping fences?
Running races?
Playing polo?
Barrel racing?
Being left to rot in a field?
Being shipped to Mexico to get stabbed in the spinal column at an abbatoir?

I fail to see how any of these situations is any more 'natural' than walking through the park pulling a carriage, retruning to a box stall at the end of the day, and going to a pasture once or twice a year.

Oh, what's that you say? They should all be "free" and "wild"?

Oh, I guess you mean on all that land we DON'T have (ask the BLM), and I guess fighting the elements, predators, disease, and possible starvation is far superior to walking through Central Park - after all, it *is* natural ;-)

Hey - what about the police horses?
Thoughts?

Love the police horses. Very beautiful standard breds. My fave.

To Hey Michaleen:
Yes, I love the police horses also, and yes, they are using more Standardbreds, my fave breed too! But they still have quarter horses & draft crosses etc, too. Love 'em all.

The reason I brought them up is to hear the deafening silence from the humaniacs on that issue.

They would NEVER take on the NYPD.

They NEVER picket/defame/rage against the police horses.

And yet, there they are - horses, standing in traffic, on the pavement, breathing the same air as carriage horses.

The two differences being that the police horse stands with 180 pounds ON his back for hours, and are sometimes DELIBERATELY put in harm's way in the line of duty.

I don't have a problem with that, don't get me wrong - they are well fit to have a rider on their backs, and they lead exceedingly reasonable lives, as do our horses.

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy.

to MICHALEEN:
I pay monthly to feed a horse that was formerly abused if you must know, and I donate to several equine sanctuaries throughout the year.
to OK, no, the NYC carriage horses are not ok, and that is a fact, and you know it, that's why you don't sign your real name!

Michaleen, you're joking, right? ya gotta be! you know i wasn't referring to barrel racing or leaving horses to rot!!! I've seen a few well fed carriage horses, and i've seen some nearly emaciated ones!!! It's still the wrong environment for them. What's the difference you ask between a carriage horse in nyc and a horse untethered in a field with excess to food and shelter? It's the same difference as having a wife who calls you 50 times a day to know your every move, or having one that doesn't mind you having a few drinks with the boys! Actually, the difference is more vast, but do you get the picture now?

"Flynn" ;0)

"Eaten bigger things than you for breakfast?"

Yikes! and you say we are nutz

Yes, Wow, there are questionable folks in New York City when the Dept of Ed is renting below market the building to house shamrock stables. Guess what, their lobbyist Thomas McMahon is the brother of council member michael mcMahon and the husband of Bloomberg deputy mayor. Something is real rotten in NYC. End the cruelty and support the ban.

To all of you misinformed posters who "love the horses" and want to keep this "iconic tradition," please do some authentic research. Horses do not belong on the streets of New York City.

Flynn, ;) please stop trotting old out your "myths and facts" sheet. It is wrong on all counts, and listing it that way doesn't make it any more real.

Central Park Carriages and West Side Livery ... 37th and 38 Streets...will ya please re-measure that, and realize that yes...it is 2 miles ... and that's 4 miles a day in heavy traffic. jeez.

This is New York City, 21st century. let's get horses off the streets. Please.

Crooked politicians, entrenched industry, paid carriage industry lobbyists, what a miserable and misguided bunch. And THIS is what Mayor Bloomberg and the City Council want to protect?

Threatening a pub over a fund-raiser. Is there no justice?

FINALLY the TRUTH comes out. Enough lies Avella and Elizabeth. You cant deny you were lying now.

From the Isish voice today..look it up online if you dont believe me!

Upon discovering that the event was in fact to raise funds for the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages, Healy said he cancelled the fundraiser.
“When they booked it at the beginning I thought it was a fundraiser in the traditional sense. I was kind of blindsided,” he said, adding if he had initially know who the organization were when booking the event, he wouldn’t have taken the booking.
“Some of (the horse drawn carriage drivers) are just from down the road from where I grew up and the majority of them are of Irish descent,” he said.
Upset that he has been misquoted by the media and the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages, Healy said when he called up the woman who booked the event to tell her it was cancelled she said to him, “I don’t blame you. I don’t want my windows broken either.’
“Those were her words and I got misquoted on it,” said Healy.

How did your press conference go on Wednesday...oh, yeah. I hear not ONE person from any media outlet showed up.And that Avella looked like he is going to lose it at any minute. He put all his apples in one bag and he screwed up big time. Hes not going to win any election attached to extremists like you.Hes a joke. Even the mayor is making fun of him at benefits! Dont you understand that your lies are making you outcasts and the press no longer wants to molly coddle your extremist asses? You have become pariahs. Your looked upon as cooks and liars. Its hilarious!

Peeba76 is Abigail from Clinton Stable who spews all these lies to protect her corrupted and cruel industry. The irish voice is an one-sided industry that doesn't care about the cruelty of the horses. They believe they have to protect all Irish even the bad ones like Michael McMahon who is running for CD-13 Staten Island. Don't vote for him. His brother Thomas is the lobbyist for this industry. This is why Shamrock stables rents the building from Dept of Ed for below market rates. There is a lot of corrupted ties in this industry and the horses are the victims.

I realize you are blind to the truth...but HOW can you deny a quote? How in the world can you deny that Elizabeth and Avella were lying about WHY he cancelled? THINK ABOUT IT! The truth is the truth..here it is in writing. Are you telling me the irish voice MADE that UP?! OMG. You people are nuttier than I thought...if thats possible. and just so you know, McMahon is ABSTAINING from any votes regarding the industry. Hes said this all along. So there is NO conflict of interest. GEEZ. And go ahead and tell whatever you want about me..I have nothing to hide. That is why I put myself out there for you to hate. Have fun!

Hey peebrain (perfect name for you, btw lol) - since you are so interested in Peeba76 on Youtube, how's about clicking on her profile and watching the videos of her carriage horses on vacation?

Close up of hoof numbers and everythang.

Want a little salt to make that foot taste better? LOL

I have been against the carriage-horse industry since the 70's, and have worked on the horses' behalf on and off since then. I admire Councilmember Avella immensely for stepping up to the plate, something no one else on the council has EVER had the courage to do. The conditions for the horses have had miniscule change for the better in going on 40 years of observation on my part. A ban is the only answer. One cannot remove loud noises and heavy traffic from New York City, any more than the flight mechanism from horses that causes them to bolt and flee when sensing danger, and run terrified down a crowded New York Street with a carriage attached to their back.

I have been against the carriage-horse industry since the 70's, and have worked on the horses' behalf on and off since then. I admire Councilmember Avella immensely for stepping up to the plate, something no one else on the council has EVER had the courage to do. The conditions for the horses have had miniscule change for the better in going on 40 years of observation on my part. A ban is the only answer. One cannot remove loud noises and heavy traffic from New York City, any more than the flight mechanism from horses that causes them to bolt and flee when sensing danger, and run terrified down a crowded New York Street with a carriage attached to their back.

So, its alright for mounted horses, but not carriage horses? Give me a break. This is a lame argument. You sound like an ignorant, self-important gobshite. Its people like you that need to get a clue! I live in this city too, and would miss the horses immensley. I think the rest of us new yorkers who like the carriage horses should stand up and help these people out! Weve heard enough from you animal rights people. Its time we take nyc back!

Agibail, (Peeba76),
You can't be serious about the Irish Voice. If that "article" wasn't the work of a child, then that is truly humiliating for the "newspaper." No one who made it out of junior high school could take that article seriously.

Todd, you would benefit from doing some rudimentary research about the NYC carriage industry. Why would the ASPCA and Humane Society of the United States, among a host of other mainstream organizations, support a ban unless it were necessary? The industry cannot be made safe for these majestic animals, who must travel up to 4 miles a day in heavy traffic. There is neither a need nor a sensible rationale to have horse-drawn carriages in 21st-century New York City.

Whether or not its the work of a "child" does not make up for the FACT that the TRUTH came out about what REALLY happened. The manager was quoted as saying Forel and Avella LIED. Its funny how any article that sides with you people is "genious" while any article that doesnt is the " work of a child". PLEASE. This is about FACTS. And you dont have many on your side.