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Featured

Why the Mormons Hate the Gays

By Tony Ortega, Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 11:44AM
Comments (85)
Categories:

joesmith.jpg

Michael Musto really stepped in it yesterday when he pointed out on his blog that tomorrow evening there will be a peaceful protest outside the Manhattan Mormon Temple on Columbus Avenue at 65th Street (6:30 pm, bring a sign!).

Commenters went after Musto for suggesting that protesting the Mormon Church might be appropriate because Mormons contributed significant support to California's Proposition 8, which passed last week and stripped gay couples of the right to marry in that state. Although it turns out that Mormons (many of whom don't even live in the state of California) may have provided as much as 77 percent of the financial backing to the Yes on 8 campaign, some apparently didn't appreciate the suggestion that the local Mormon Church might be a good place to raise objections to last week's vote.

In the comments on Musto's blog, a lot of wild accusations were tossed around, indicating that folks might be a little confused about this issue.

So, as a public service, we thought it might be useful to provide a brief primer about where the Mormons are coming from.

And keep in mind, we're not making this stuff up.

One of our favorite authors in the whole world, the late Fawn Brodie*, did the world a service by helping us all understand a really fascinating time in our country's history -- the wild, wild 1820's.

This was the Era of Good Feelings, when the United States experienced a rare period lacking in partisan political bickering -- the Federalists were dying off, the Democratic-Republicans were dominant, and the country was enjoying several years of prosperity after defeating the British military in a second war. The young republic was secure, drinking heavily, and was generally very, very isolated.

In other words, Americans were extremely bored.

Which explains why the period seemed to generate some of the wildest fads -- religious and otherwise -- in our nation's history. The absence of national emergencies -- the Revolution was a fading memory, the growing crisis over slavery had yet to gain critical mass -- meant that more, shall we say, frivolous matters had a way of absorbing the national imagination.

Specifically, Brodie points out that three national fads had an especially tight grip on the minds of people in western New York in the early 1820s.

1. Where did all these Indians come from? After generations of slaughter, Native Americans had been so decimated, white folks in the Northeast no longer saw them as a threat. In fact, it had been so long since the days of wanton violence, authors like Fenimore Cooper were now looking back on the tribes of upstate New York through a romantic lens.

But if the Indian had begun to change from the frightening serpent in America's Eden to the Noble Savage, there was still a question nagging at the Christian mind -- particularly among those who figured that all of history worth knowing was recorded in their favorite book. In other words: who were the Indians, how did they get here, and why aren't they mentioned in the Bible?

In particular, people in parts of New York were fascinated by the Moundbuilders -- a people that had built sophisticated earthworks and then had vanished. Folks -- and preachers especially -- endlessly debated which of the lost tribes of Israel might have ended up in North America and left behind the mysterious mounds in western parts of the state. This promoted a sort of amateur archaeological fervor that spread across the land.

2. What are these mysterious symbols, called 'hieroglyphs,' that we're learning about in news reports from Egypt? Adding to the public's budding archaeological interest, stories about the strange writing system of the ancient Egyptians were proving to be fascinating reading in the country's newspapers. What tantalizing secrets of the Egyptians -- and perhaps the time of Moses -- might be revealed when the hieroglyphs could finally be deciphered! The key to solving that puzzle -- the Rosetta Stone -- had been discovered by French troops in 1799, but publication of an English key to the Egyptian code was still years away. But that didn't stop people from speculating wildly about what earth-shattering truths might await the person who could read the ancient texts.

3. What fabulous treasures did Indians or Spanish explorers bury in my backyard? This third archaeological fad was not only amplified by the other two, it provided fertile ground for flim-flam artists. What better way to romanticize the (more exciting) past than to daydream about Indian gold or Spanish doubloons hidden away somewhere on your back forty? Quick to take advantage of that longing was an army of itinerant scammers: a man would arrive at a farm, claim to be a fortune-teller, and swear that he sensed the presence of buried treasure nearby. Some set the hook by showing the gullible a special "seer stone" that the fortune-teller claimed he could use to zero-in on buried gold. For a substantial fee, he'd dig up what was sure to be a whole cache of treasure that would make the farmer very rich. After being paid that fee, naturally, the fortune-teller would then make himself scarce. Farmers in western New York, in particular, seemed to be susceptible to the scam.

Isn't this fun? What an imaginative, feverish place was the young Republic! So, with that table set, now let's take a look at what Brodie tells us happened one day in Palmyra, New York in 1827.

A man named Joseph Smith -- who already had a court record for scamming a farmer in the buried-gold scheme -- came forward and claimed that an angel had come to him four years earlier with a revelation.

What did the angel ask Smith to do? Are you ready?

-- The angel, Smith said, directed him where to dig up a buried treasure, a set of gold tablets. (See: Fad Number Three, above.)

-- The tablets were etched in a strange code that looked remarkably like Egyptian hieroglyphs. (See: Fad Number Two.)

-- The angel gave Smith a special pair of seer stones that enabled him to read the hieroglyphs as easily as if he were reading English (a really creative combo of Fad Two and Fad Three).

-- And what did the tablets describe? Have you guessed? Yes! It was the answer to the ultimate riddle, Fad Numero Uno: The super-cool, heretofore unknown and like, bizarre actual origin of North America's Indian tribes!

Can I get an L-D-S!

Whew. Of course, Smith's explanation of the origin of Native Americans proved to be complete nonsense, and reports that a few of Smith's early believers also laid eyes on the golden tablets turned out to be no more substantial than Smith's own claims.

But Smith's fairy tale was smartly played -- it hit all the high points with a population desperate for romantic silliness to distract them from their dreary lives, and soon enough Smith was making all sorts of pronouncement that were taken to be the Revelations of a Living God. Like, for example, that he and maybe a few of his most trusted right-hand dudes should be able to marry as many young ladies as they wanted to.

To cut a long story short, smart folks like Mark Twain (years later) made endless fun of Smith's nuttery, but less wise people somehow figured that Smith's new religion threatened their own, and you know what that means - Jihad! Smith fled with his flock to Missouri [Oops, make that Illinois - my mistake, not Brodie's], where he was killed, but his successor, Brigham Young, took the Mormons to Utah, which they to this day largely run while also somehow managing to support an NBA team named after a musical form created by black geniuses from a place called New Orleans.

It's complicated. But anyway, try to understand that if your entire worldview was based on the completely unreliable ravings of an early 19th-century flim-flam artist with a harem fetish, you too might have a burning inferiority about your belief system, and you might manifest that inferiority by picking on the queers, who make an easy target and scare the bejesus out of your typical Mormon.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

And hey, see you at the picket.

*Fawn McKay Brodie, a UCLA professor of history, died of cancer in 1981, which really sucks, because it cut too short the career of a woman whose biographies are among the most provocative ever written. After her groundbreaking unmasking of Joseph Smith in 1945's No Man Knows My History, Brodie was excommunicated by the Mormon Church. She then put out a luminous biography of the 19th-century explorer and Arabian Nights translator, Sir Richard Francis Burton (The Devil Drives), and then shocked the world by being the Thomas Jefferson biographer with the guts to write about what all of her predecessors had known but didn't dare make public: evidence that Jefferson had fathered children with his slave, Sally Hemings (Thomas Jefferson: An Intimate History). In her last book, which was interrupted by the death of her husband and was finished prematurely as she fought the cancer that ended her own life, Brodie took on Richard Nixon. The book was less well received than her others, but is still a fascinating read (Richard Nixon: The Shaping of his Character). If you haven't read the Smith and Burton biographies, in particular, you've missed the highest examples of the form.

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Comments (85)

Anonymous says:

For an interesting, probably as informative discussion on the origins of Mormonism, take a look at South Park's episode on the subject.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 12:46PM
dj says:

coming from outside dc (with a temple) and having lived in la (with a temple) i know A LOT of mormon men living on the DL

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 1:31PM
Justin says:

I cannot fault your (or rather, Ms. Brodie's) history, but your conclusion that an atypical belief-system engenders an inferiority complex which conclusively leads to oppression of other minorities is specious at best.

Mormons, even if they have what some flippantly dismiss as a quaint and amusing history, don't hate gays. No number of protests or misleading headlines will make them hate gays. Sorry--I know that would conveniently simplify this complex issue.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 1:51PM
David Ehrenstein says:

If "Mormons don't hate gays," Justin , why did they spend so much money on Prop 8?

If you're Mormon and discover that you're gay the first thing to do is get the hell out of Didge! That's what "Milk" screenwriter Duncan Lance Black did, and that's what Taylor Gresson, writer-director of the fascinating "Meadowlark" did.

It's a fucked-up religion, but it nonetheless manages to produce gay artists of importance.

Who of course have to leave the religion.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 2:51PM
Justin says:

David,
It poisons the entire debate to reduce a complex, multi-faceted issue to "hate." It is easy (an unfortunately effective) to simply apply the word "hate" to any opponent, but it discourages dialoge and hinders ultimate resolution.

Could there be another reason why Mormons put time and money into Proposition 8 other than blind, irrational hate of homosexuals? Mormons put far more money and time into welfare, charity and relief programs worldwide than they every did into Proposition 8. What irrational hate motivates that?

Until you understand your opponents, you will never defeat them. And simplistic articles like this do nothing to increase the mutual understanding required to build a consensus and reach a compromise.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 3:25PM
(the) Trevor says:

That proposition would have failed no matter what*, and you blame the mormons! That is classic!! HA HA HA…take that, mormons!!!

* “And keep in mind, we're not making this stuff up.”

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 3:43PM
The Phantom says:

The Mormons backed Proposition because they're morally opposed to the gay lifestyle.

There does not need to be hate in order to oppose what is wrong.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 3:48PM
richard Lewer says:

Why is any disagreement called hatred? Will we go the way of Canada and Europe and stop all free speech that is politically incorrect?

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 4:00PM
Heather says:

I think the issue should not be what motivated the funding of Prop 8, but the propaganda in the support ads. The false claims that "gay marriage will be taught in schools," I believe, pushed many moderate voters to the pro side.

That said, continued protests and visibility can, at least, do no harm to the cause.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 4:23PM
DH Walker says:

The Mormons backed Proposition because they're morally opposed to the gay lifestyle.

If you oppose something that doesn't affect you for arbitrary reasons, and that actively hurts and oppresses other people, then it's perverse to refer to that as a "moral" position.

There does not need to be hate in order to oppose what is wrong.

So, once you hate something, it doesn't require more hate to still hate it?

Why is any disagreement called hatred?

It's not a "disagreement", dimwit. The proposition materially harms people. It has real-world negative consequences for real-world people.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 4:55PM
man without a race says:

Just like blacks that came out to vote for Obama, Mormons too are another minority that feel the only way to rise out of oppression is by standing on the backs of another minority.

It makes no more sense to protest mormons that it would to protest any black church in Harlem or a Lakers games at MSG.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 4:56PM
Thad says:

@Justin: Saying "Mormons don't hate gay people!" and then changing the subject doesn't make it so.

@Richard Lewer: Nice straw man, but nobody's saying anything about stifling speech. Guess what? Condemning bigotry as bigotry also falls under the heading of "free speech".

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 4:58PM
Alex H. says:

Fine, mormans can claim not to hate, but they have no problem with oppression. They believe alternate sexuality to be a malady of either the soul or the mind to which the person shall burn in hell.

And somehow they can be cured (but they are not going to heaven unless they get married, to which someone who scores a 6 on the Kinsey scale probably would not be able to consummate, so they are just doomed).

It's worse than just hatred. I think of the MLK quote from letter from Birmingham jail: "Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

Mormons aren't Westburo Baptists, they are just passive aggressive oppressors.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 5:02PM
Chris says:

I'm morally opposed to the Mormon lifestyle, and therefore think public expressions and legal recognition of this lifestyle should be banned.

But don't worry, I don't hate Mormons...it's just a disagreement!

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 5:14PM
The Phantom says:

The more that the political gay movement attacks Mormons, Catholics, blacks, the more they'll lose support on this.

And there's little enough support as it is --since in 30 out of 30 states that have not been decided by judges, they have lost.

You're on the wrong side of history guys. If you can't carry California in the context of a statewide Obama landslide, you'll never carry it.

The movement picked the wrong issue and the wrong tactics- picking a sneaky legal strategy instead of trying to convince the public that this was any sort of a good idea was the mistake of the century. Whoever masterminded this strategy should be sued for political malpractice.

Its over guys. You lost.

You thought you could restructure society when noone was looking, but you've failed 30-0 where the people have had a say.


Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 5:15PM
DH Walker says:

You thought you could restructure society when noone was looking, but you've failed 30-0 where the people have had a say.

So, arbitrary bigotry is validated by its popularity, according to you. Don't you religious types usually say the exact opposite - that what's right isn't always what's popular?

Fortunately, civil rights in this country are recognized as inalienable by the constitution, and not up to the will of the masses - and for exactly this reason. You need to read up on some history if you don't understand why the founding fathers set things up this way.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 5:39PM
Thad says:

@The Phantom: Wow, not only are you a bigot, but you suck at logic. (Actually, the former sort of implies the latter.) "Something got voted down" in no way implies "it will always be voted down, forevermore, and will never pass". See also: the abolition of slavery, women's suffrage, Jim Crow...and then ask yourself who is and isn't on the right side of history.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 5:53PM
Devil says:

hey mr. ortega, you forgot to mention another very significant thread which john "thieving pervert" smith wove into his creepy cult: freemasonry. he was into that (inherently anti-christian) stuff, and used a bunch of its weird rituals and symbols in his freaky LDS nonsense. it was a big influence, and anyone interested in the full story behind the mor(m)ons should check it out.

if i ever stumble across a time machine, one of the first things i'll do is go back and make sure that smith's parents are otherwise occupied the night he's supposed to be conceived. there's just no good reason for that scumbag to have lived at all.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 5:59PM
The Phantom says:

DH, thad

I'm not religious. You don't need to be religious or a "bigot" to oppose a parody of marriage as being recognized by human society

The Founding Fathers certainly didn't have marriage without a groom or marriage without a bride in mind when they wrote the Constitution.

There's zero constitutional support for this mockery to be recognized. Its worse than a farce. If you wanted society to buy into this nonsense you should have tried to persuade society,

Can't and won't happen Same sex marriage defies logic and natural justice. No healthy society will sign off on it.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 6:20PM
riffraff says:

What I don't get about religious people supporting Prop 8 is this: Why aren't you trying to pass an amendment to ban Satanists from getting married? What about atheists? Aren't these marriages afronts to people of faith? But there's the rub. Marriage in this country has nothing to do with religion. Marriage is just a tax status. It's just access to insurance and late night hospital visits. Also, passing amendments based on moral disagreements is rediculous because there is nowhere near a consensus on just what good morals are. You have your definition, but in the U.S.A. I have every right to my definition. And even if mine is different than yours, you don't have the right to tell me I have to change. And before you start yelling about gay marriage making you change, I'll go ahead and call b.s. No one is telling you that you have to attend gay marriages, or like gay marriage, or get gay married. No one is forcing people who disagree with gay marriage to do anything except mind their own business. And that's the real point. Gays are just trying to mind their own business, and mormons are trying to mind it for them.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 6:49PM
riffraff says:

Hey phantom! How the hell do you know what the founding fathers were thinking? In any case, there are a couple of states that have, in fact, signed off on gay marriage. Are they not healthy societies? You're a real pompous ass aren't you?

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 6:53PM
Jason says:

Hmm... so many points to make. First off, the article was very entertaining, but completely failed to elaborate on the title. It was nothing more than a well thought out attempt to debase the Mormon religion, which it did handily. However, it's quite a leap from that to 'hating gays' or even being opposed to a homosexual lifestyle. Many churches do oppose gays, but I still haven't figured out why.

There are those that say it's because of Leviticus 18:22, which says homo-sex is an abomination. However, I don't think most of them put as much of a priority on Leviticus 11:10, which says eating shrimp and lobster is also an abomination.

Finally, on the topic of whether gay marriage is constitutional or not, I think it's absurd that ANY marriage should be regulated by the state. The term 'marriage' is religious, so the state should only regulate civil unions.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 7:52PM
DH Walker says:

You don't need to be religious or a "bigot" to oppose a parody of marriage as being recognized by human society ...

Considering it doesn't affect you in any way, yes, you do.

But this issue is more than your arbitrary, uninformed opinions. It's about actually harming people for no reason based on your arbitrary, uninformed opinions.

How can you be so thick-headed not to know the difference?

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 8:04PM
smiling_dog says:

I don't really care all that much about the Mormons, but I don't like it when people hide behind their church while taking pot shots (at gays, in this case). If you don't want people to go after your church, don't use it push a political agenda down people's throats.

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 10:27PM
The Phantom says:

riffraff

Gay marriage has never been signed on by voters of any state

Massachusetts was accomplished by judicial fiat, and after that fact the Democrat politicians took steps to ensure that teh public would never have a say

In no state has there been any action except under the threat of judicial action

Prop 8 was a reaction to a judicial overreach. Without the Action of the CA Supreme Court, there would never have been a Proposition 8

Posted On: Tuesday, Nov. 11 2008 @ 11:42PM
Major Woody says:

You tell 'em, The Phantom! On the other hand, the Founding Fathers never envisioned The Internet when they wrote the Constitution, so maybe you should just unplug your machine and go away.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 1:11AM
Cereal says:

I absolutely LOVE when bigots talk about "defining" or "preserving the sanctity of" marriage. See, they aren't against gays, oh no...they just have this "traditional" view of what marriage is, and that can't be allowed to change, right?

Newsflash: "traditional" Judeo-Christian marriage is POLYGAMY. Which, like, you guys are against, right? Read your freaking Bible some time. Let us know if you have trouble counting up all those wives, and need us to help you with basic addition.

Or, if you don't want to actually go back and cite the exact, original "tradition" you always DO cite, since it proves what liars and hypocrites you all are: How about the more recent "tradition" of marriage, in this country?

"Traditional" marriage here means women have no rights. It means interracial marriage is illegal. it means it's simply not possible for a woman to be raped (or abused) by her husband - he can do whatever nasty crap he wants since she is his property. And forget about women divorcing men, getting settlements, keeping custody of kids, and so on.

When you people come out and insist that marriage be defined ONLY as between a man and up to four women, who shall have no rights whatsoever, and who must be the same race as the husband, then maybe we will stop pointing out that, in fact, you are a bunch of bigots and liars and idiots.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 4:06AM
Pat Lillis says:

Look, it's as simple as this- you liberals LOVE democracy when it gives you what you want, i.e. an affirmative action Muslim president. And that's all true so deal with it.

But when a majority of people in MY state say "whatever, enough is enough with these fags" then you come running and say "we'll go to court". Well, listen up and listen good: we've tried the ballot box. Next thing is the ammo box, you get me? If you overturn this democratic process, like you scum always do (in Minnesota as we speak!), steal elections, intimidate voters with Black Panthers, etc. then there will be resistance in CA and I am going to be on the front lines.

Enough is enough. You're poisoning America, and you want gays in our schools so they will have easy access to the innocent. Then you can recruit, or just rape the toddlers bloddy. I can promise you if some fag comes near any children I ever have, I will blow him away. If the law doesn't respect me, and if child rape is legal then I will shoot the law too. Christians have HAD IT and we are not going to let you make America a marxist, faggot paradise. You want a war, keep it up. We outnumber you, and we have way, way more guns.

And God is on our side and will help us shoot straight. Count on it, you pinko pieces of filth.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 5:25AM
not Justin says:

It's OK for Mormon missionaries to beat up gays according to the church's second ranking apostle, Boyd K. Packer.

But Mormons don't hate gays . . . what planet are you living on Justin.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 9:01AM
Justin says:

Not Justin:

Boyd K. Packer did not say it's okay for Mormon missionaries to beat up gays. I believe what you are referring to is a story Mr. Packer related in which one missionary felt remorse for striking another missionary after an unwelcome sexual advance. It requires quite a leap to interpret this as an open endorsement of violent gay-bashing by rabid bands of Mormon missionaires, particularly in light of the thousands of other stories and sermons by Mr. Packer and other LDS leaders enshrining peace, tolerance and love and the mark of a Christian life.

I don't deny that homosexuals have been the unfortunate targest of shameful and inexcusable violence and hate. But its source has never, is not, and never will be the LDS Church.

Equating support for Proposition 8 with hate has proven to be a losing and ill-conceived strategy. Mainly because it is patently false. Your movement will stagnate so long as this is your focus.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 10:09AM
Bina says:

Hey Pat, not only are you an idiot and a bigot, but you're uttering death threats. Is this your idea of "democracy", too? Institutionalized hate at any cost, including gunpoint? You wingnuts are not only delusional, you're murderous. God must love you for that reverence you have for innocent life, ha ha.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 10:40AM
rayy says:

If you still think it's not hate, then read "Pat Lillis" post (11/12-5:25AM). For some reason, some people see gay people as a threat, or maybe they need to believe in some kind of cause-for whatever reason they get trapped in this kind of negative thinking. I don't think it has much to do with religion. Look back at the Klan--was that religion?

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 11:08AM
o says:

lets see a similar rundown on a few chosen popular fads!

wife asks husband to sleep with the maid. he does. wife hates step child and puts them out in the middle of nowhere... she makes it to Medina, funky and cold. a people are born.

skip a few years...

same wife sleeps with same husband before said maid leaves. whamo, a child is born, then chosen. a people are born.

skip some time...

half breed makes wine, chases bankers out of the temple and gets the death penalty. a religion crops up. then another and another ...

skip some time...

man wants lots of wives and total control of the people in the area. climbs mountain. new religion pops up of the behead you if you wont believe sort. then a variation and another variation.. voila!

skipping along...(gayishly)


Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 11:08AM
Cr@ig P@xton says:

Tony,

Speaking from the advantage of being a former Mormon, I’m disappointed that you didn’t touch on some of the ‘other’ bizarre doctrines of Mormonism, such as a belief in a literal ‘Adam and Eve’ who immerged from The Garden of Eden (which Mormon’s believe was in the State of Missouri) 6,000 years ago.

Or a literal belief in a ‘Universal Flood’ including a literal ‘Noah and Ark’. They don’t however explain how all of the scientific evidence supports an evolutional model of animal distribution of life throughout the earth rather than a Noahic/Ark model.

They also believe that their leader,”The Prophet”, literally speaks with ‘a’ God just as one man speaks to another.

So can you really blame the Mormon’s for holding such backward views when it comes to same-sex marriage?

They received their marching orders directly from their leader…who claims to receive his directions directly from the God of the Universe.

‘The Prophet’ literally commanded the Mormon faithful to support Proposition 8 with all of their ‘Time-Talents-and Money’. There was no room for decent.

Whenever you are dealing with an authoritarian organization that does not allow decent, critical examination of its claims, leaders who cannot be criticized, even when they are wrong, and members who blindly follow the pronouncements of these unaccountable leaders, who claim to speak for God…you get the Mormon Church.

Were it not for the cognitive dissonance that often accompanies membership in Mormonism, I would still be a ‘Mormon Drone’. I give thanks everyday…I awoke from the ‘Mormon-Matrix’ and started ‘Thinking’.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 11:53AM
beverins says:

Hey Pat Lillis...

Hope you can shoot straight with all them thar booze yur drinkin'. :-D LAWL.

Who would Jeeezus Shewt? LULZ!!

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 12:04PM
Bob Kincaid says:

Perhaps part of the bitterness the Morons hold toward gay marriage lies in the fact that in it they see an encroachment on their own pre-existing racket.

Check out the "Ordinance of Adoption." This supposed Mormon sacrament "seals" men to men for all eternity. They claim to no longer perform this "ordinance," but, then again, they also claim to have disavowed polygamy, but still perform ordinances that "seal" multiple spouses "in eternity."

"Joseph Smith was called a prophet. Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum!"

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 1:25PM
LeHanzka says:

Pat Lillis: You're right about everything. As a matter of fact, I'm working with my liberal-gay-terrorist lover to recruit children (preferably yours...if they're not imaginary) in our Grand Imam Obama Youth Club. Here's the best part: once they reach the age of 13, the kids have the option of either gay-marrying (by gunpoint of course) or joining our "silly suicide bomber" club (also by gunpoint).

*Sigh*...People like you are better than television.

P.S. Don't bitch about people talking about issues in YOUR state, and then arbitrarily tie MY state's recount (which will be legit...not that you'll care) to some Oxycontin-fueled delusion of a Muslim president/gay/liberal conspiracy.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 3:21PM
Dake Hussein says:

@Phanton:

Actually, the Founding Fathers had nothing whatsoever to say about marriage, at least, not in the Constitution, since it's not mentioned. They probably believed in leaving it up to the states- and actually, they probably believed in leaving it up to the churches, since marriage was not a civil matter at that time.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 3:56PM
Hobbes says:

I am not a Mormon.
I do not espouse the Mormon religion; in fact I disagree strongly with many of their core beliefs.
I am also not gay, and not liberal.
That said:

1) The LDS do not "hate" gays any more than say the Catholic church, and certainly are less anti-homosexual than the Southern Baptist Convention.
2) The LDS are also not responsible for the ridiculous propaganda spread in support of Prop 8.
3) The LDS DID provide 77% of the funding for Prop 8.
4) You can still protest the LDS's support of Prop 8 without hating them, and without calling them bigots. Give it a try.

It is still possible, even if it is currently unfashionable, to disagree and argue without hating and disrespecting the other side.

@Pat Lillis: Don't attempt to justify your own hatred by putting it into Jesus's mouth. Your own words show that you have not truly accepted the message of Jesus Christ into your heart. Please, I urge you, read your Bible, meditate on it, and let Jesus help you to let go of your hatred.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 4:59PM
Brian Cull says:

Great novelization of the rise of the LDS church: The Origin of the Brunists

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 8:23PM
Pat Lillis says:


I said what I said and I meant what I said and I said it because I meant it!!!!!

It's easy for you guys to talk tough on the Internet, but when it comes time to carve the turkey we'll see who gets what end of the wishbone.

You WILL NOT faggot-ize the country. Look at history, show me one nation that was openly gay and survived or prospered in any way. I want you to know we are connected by the Web and keep contact, and there is a swelling tide of resistance that will resist. No wonder you hate me and America, Jesus too. I'd hate me to if I were you and you were me, but I'm NOT you, I'm ME, and I'm Christian and you're not and that's why I hate you for you hating me!!!!!

YOU started this. Fags and Scuzzlims, together for the attempt at making America gay, communist and with Sharia. Not gonna happen! I'm ready, armed, there is a fence around my house and I know how to make explosives!!! So you want my guns???? Come get 'em, you douche bags!!!!

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 9:21PM
bigosh says:

Hey Pat, I just want to let you know that crazed threats to shoot fags and queers and all the rest of your hate-filled rants are only going to get innocent people hurt or killed. I am a skinny white guy and when I was younger a lot of s**t-for-brains like you thought I was a "fag". That's what those idiots would scream at me when I walked home from my work every night. Sometimes these good ol' boys would chase down the streets in their cars screaming obscenities and threats. Once one of these idiots pulled a gun on me and threatened to kill me (he said "shoot the queer!!!!"). Real nice, eh Pat?

That's the world you want to make? Where anyone who even looks "queer" (whatever that is supposed to be. Can you tell me Pat? You seem like a smart person- HA!).

You and people like you are a menace to society not the gays.

And for the record: I am a hetero, never got gay with anyone, and I respect the sexual choices of consenting adults. How about you Pat?

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 11:54PM
Wolfe Ton says:

I'm not a fan of the religion or it's numerous incidents of foul abuse; that said I don't have any animosity towards Mormons in general (I have better things to do with my time). Plus I think protesting/harassing a church is just a stupid cry for attention. Not to mention it's kind of a waste of time, just what exactly will be accomplished by the protest? Also I wonder how many liberals would be screaming 'hate crime' if some neo-cons held a protest at a mosque in response to 911?

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 1:08AM
ccw says:

"Look at history, show me one nation that was openly gay and survived or prospered in any way."

Sparta, the fiercest land force in ancient Greece. Try again dumbass.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 1:10AM
J. Wright says:

homosexual = gender identity confusion

no one can fix that for you

you must seek help on a personal level

don't expect everyone else to buy into the confusion in your life

or the fact that you cannot reproduce so you must recruit

You would not want your children to face the awful darkness which homosexuality has brought into your life...so don't ask us to surrender our children to your recruitment tactics or to such a future.

You can choose whatever you want but you cannot choose the consequences.

There is help if you seek it.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 1:10AM
Wolfe Tone says:

I'm not a fan of the religion or it's numerous incidents of foul abuse; that said errr typed ;) I don't have any animosity towards Mormons in general (I have better things to do with my time). Plus I think protesting/harassing a church is just a stupid cry for attention. Not to mention it's kind of a waste of time, just what exactly will be accomplished by the protest? Also I wonder how many liberals would be screaming 'hate crime' if some neo-cons held a protest at a mosque in response to 911?

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 1:13AM
Frank says:

Why all the hate about hate? Hate is good. As LaVey says, if you can't hate, you can't love.

I hate Mormons. Nits will make lice, as the saying goes. In fact, next time I see a missionary, I think I'll kick him in the nuts.

I also hate homos. I mean, of all the things a man might stick his pecker into, why would he turn to another man's ass? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

If it's just a matter of sexual desperation, then a sheep feels just like a woman, or so I hear. Glory!

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 1:19AM
observer says:

Great post! Thanks for putting that together. But you were wrong about one detail: the Mormons fled to Nauvoo, Illinois, near my hometown, and later, after Smith was killed (by an angry mob) while being held in a jail in Carthage, Illinois, they headed to Missouri, and then to Utah.

Having endured their nuttiness at the *restored* Nauvoo site up close for years as a kid, I demand you acknowledge the Illinois chapter.

Fun fact: After the Mormons left Nauvoo, lightning struck their (empty) temple there and burned it to the ground. I call that divine commentary.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 3:38AM
Bongs McJohnson says:

fuck religion, period.

its all comes down to the same silly superstitions in the end

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 8:32AM
DAVID BLAKE says:

I don't want to be difficult but what's this about the 1820's when the US was "celebrating defeating the British military in a second war."
Sorry, dudes. You lost, we won. We even set fire to the White House to prove it. You started it by trying to take over Canada. We stopped you. And beat Napoleon at the same time.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 10:45AM
Skeptic says:

I don't think its controversial that the Mormon religion amounts to a lunatic pack of nonsense invented by a fraud artist focusing on many of the popular fads of his time.

It's interesting that not even the defenders of Mormonism on this thread will challenge this point. The religion is a lunatic cult, it's embarrassing, but there you go.

Do Mormons hate gays? I'm not sure that's the right way to put it. I think the better approach is to say that Mormons are hostile to any notion of extending civil rights of any sort to persons practicing gay sexuality. They're hostile to gay porn, gay bars, gay sex, gay culture, gay marriage, gay cohabitation, you name it.

Mormons are perfectly prepared to tolerate gay individuals - so long as those individuals refrain from gay sex or any gay cultural activity, engage in heterosexual marriage and practice only heterosexual sex within that marriage, produce children, and remain perfectly obedient to the Mormon church, while never ever acknowledging any gay self-identification.

As for the Culture Wars, I'm Canadian, I can't be bothered with that trash. The controversies over the Death Penalty, Second Amendment, Roe vs Wade, Porn, Gay rights, Women's Rights, Civil rights, Voting rights are nothing more than the vapid yammerings of ignorant, inbred, backwoods rubes barely conversant with the 19th century, out of step with the 20th and utterly lost in the 21st. Such people wear their ignorance as a sword and shield. There's no point in even discussing with them. The rest of the world left them behind long ago. Sooner or later, either America will leave them behind, or they'll drag America down to the level of an ignorant backwater.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 10:50AM
pch1013 says:

@Phantom way upthread: Prop 8 was filed six months before the California Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage. It wasn't a reaction to anything except the possibility that same-sex marriage might be legalized. That it qualified for the ballot shortly after the decision was merely a coincidence.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 2:52PM
RHETT ORACLE says:

Hey J. Wright: Not only am I living in the darkness of homosexuality, I am also left-handed. Can I wish that away, pray it away? If I am successful, will you like me then for being right-handed or will you find another reason to hate me?

Really - the only reason religion was invented was that so certain men could control other men. Have no idea whether S&M domination was intended, however.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 3:15PM
Mary T says:

Wow, Pat Lillis, sure glad you're coming at this from a position of LOVE!

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 3:48PM
alan says:

Does the Mormon church hate gays? Maybe. I think they fear them more. Mormons have some very deep seated issues with any form of sexuality that is not controlled by the church. (i.e. allowed via marriage.)

Gay sexuality is a special threat due to Mormon missions. Take a young man at a time in his life when the sex drive is the highest, pair him with another man and get him to channel that sexual energy into spreading the faith for 18 months or so. (It used to be two years. Not certain what it is now.) A couple of things happen. For most, that energy gets converted into zealotry and they have him for life. (They also get married within 6 months of returning from their mission almost without fail.) But for some, they succumb to the "sins of the flesh" and start to lust after their companion.

That screws up the whole plan.

The missionary is supposed to spread the faith, return home, get married and start making that large family as soon as possible. Having gay sexuality show up in 1 in 10 or so missions screws up "God's Plan(tm)". Since being gay is "against God" (or so they believe), then there must be some other force at work. They take it as a threat to their very faith. They somehow believe that if there was not all those gay people out there that maybe their missionaries would not be so tempted. (Since many Mormons are also young earth creationists, they also failed biology 101.)

If you don't have that family unit all believing "that the Church is true", then you don't have the tithes that go along with it, you do not have the control, and you do not have the group think that goes along with being a good Mormon.

The question I have though is that the Church leadership had a letter read in Californian Mormon churches supporting prop 8. I thought that was a violation of their tax exempt status? Maybe a more effective protest would be getting the IRS to investigate. There is plenty of physical evidence to prove that the leadership of the church used the pulpit to push their political agenda. Considering how much property and wealth the Church has, maybe it could help solve the national debt if they actually rendered unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 4:26PM
Chuckles says:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Pat Lillis you're freakin crazier than a shithouse rat.

Oh and you need to go back and read that holy bible again to see where the hell you went wrong...

How entertainingly "BRILLIANT" you are!

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 5:55PM
Huh? says:

Gays are recruiting? Are they a religion now? Do I have to tithe? If I don't have to tithe count me in.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 6:13PM
Athiest Mormon says:

I love the comment about 'finding a civilization that embraced homosexuality and survived'. With this always comes the implication that Rome and Greece fell because there was a certain level of butt-piracy going on. Seems clear that Rome and Greece fell once they adopted Christianity.

Us homos will always be only 3 to 7 percent of the population. Christian wing nuts have the control over how a society will fail - since nutters like Sara Palin will fuck up this country with their uneducated, backwoods, fucked up logic.

Oh. I think God will punish this country for allowing Gay Marriage. He doesn't really care that we allow millions to die of hunger and african genocide each year. He's much more concerned about my dick smelling like shit. I know. It's in the bible--right next to the post that says women should shut up when outside the home and keep their heads covered.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 7:40PM
anonymous says:

I just have to say, it kind of hurts me that you guys don't realize pat lillis is a troll. He's obviously a 14 year old who doesn't give a fuck about politics and just wants to stir the shit. Yeah there's people who really feel that way, but they're not clever enough to use words like "scuzzlim". The commenters politely denouncing "hate" and writing calmly about the "homosexual lifestyle", now they are the actual christian gun nuts seething with warped fantasies.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 9:16PM
Steve Dorner says:

California voted down gay marriage 62% to 38% in 2000. Not even close.

California voted down gay marriage 52% to 48% in 2008. Very close indeed.

I'm confident that, as a more tolerant generation continues to mature, California *WILL* vote to legalize gay marriage in the future.

I'm straight, but I donated to No On 8, and I will continue to support human rights for everyone.

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 @ 11:42PM
V says:

I got done reading all of these comments - took a while but I did it. And they provoked these thoughts ...

1) It's obvious that allowing gay marriage is a plot to eliminate gays. Homosexuality has definite biological roots (detectable in brain structure - google the research). Which may mean a genetic factor (recessive, obviously). And it's also a fact that 99% of all gays come from families with two heterosexual parents. If gays marry each other, they won't be forced to marry "beards" and have kids to hide their sexuality. Thus, their gay genes won't be passed on. Gay Marriage is a plot for the genocide of homosexuals! The defeat of Prop 8 was a victory for gay rights!

2) Every time I hear someone gay bash, I think of the biggest gay-basher I ever knew, back when I was in college. He ended up opening a pet-grooming parlor in Key West with his male Significant Other. Perhaps someone protests too much?

3) Who bloody cares about Mormons? Or Christians? Or Muslims? People believe what they want to believe. As long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses or kidnap people, who cares? Everyone with any brains knows that there are in fact millions of gods and spirits and that it's more spiritually efficient to pick and choose your own personal pantheon of household gods to pray to.

4)If you listen to all these arguments about restricting or denying rights, they all are fundamentally the same. Only the group being targeted changes. Try it - change the wording on an anti-somebody argument to read as some other group, and see if they aren't all the same argument. I recall my great-grandfather telling me about an occasion in 1900 about a mob forming to protest the "evil" and "unnatural" marital union of a Baptist and a Catholic.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 15 2008 @ 4:42AM
Wolfe Tone says:

The boys over at stormfront called; they want their ignorant blanket statements back. Oh and just for some clarification I don't consider protesting a church to be a 'hate crime' (I just posted that some liberals would probably consider a mosque protest a hate crime) just harassment and a stupid waste of time.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 15 2008 @ 4:50PM
Joe J says:

Don't be silly, everyone. Pat Lillis cannot possibly be a real person who would seek out an obscure Village Voice story online and take his time to write something like that. You've been had by an agent provocateur. Sure, there are probably people out there who think like that, but the person who wrote under "Pat LIllis" is probably a 23 year old in Brooklyn.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 15 2008 @ 8:44PM
Anonymous says:

Oh and my stormfront comment was a response to Skeptic's ignorant anti-American remarks; I originally included an example but it was edited out.

Posted On: Sunday, Nov. 16 2008 @ 3:31AM
Wolfe Tone says:

It's kind of one sided not to mention the atrocities that the Amerindians committed (i.e. the Jamestown massacre).

Posted On: Sunday, Nov. 16 2008 @ 3:43AM
jason says:

Let's not forget the bigotry of the black churches too. It's a sad fact that black churches are VERY homophobic, generally speaking.

Posted On: Sunday, Nov. 16 2008 @ 7:11AM
Talisyn says:

At one time I tried to explain my LDS beliefs to my ex-husband while he was still my husband, and I will admit that was probably the most fun I've ever had with a Judeo-Christian religion :D That being said this was a pretty pithy article that had a lot of one-liners and zingers to keep the rabble well entertained. Mormons do not hate homosexuals, period. The feelings Mormons have towards homosexuals don't even come close to the feelings most Mormons have towards the Southern Baptists. And all these 'peaceful' protests outside of the temples and churches, complete with spray-painted words just in case the chanting didn't get the message through, will make really good political ads when the next prop. is up for a vote.

Posted On: Monday, Nov. 17 2008 @ 10:37AM
Seamus says:

If "Mormons don't hate gays," Justin , why did they spend so much money on Prop 8?

If folks in Mississippi want to use food stamps to buy laundry starch, and I spend money to make sure that the legal definition of "food" remains the same as the traditional understanding of that term, that doesn't mean I "hate" people with pica.

Posted On: Monday, Nov. 17 2008 @ 1:00PM
Hans T Great says:

Great article, spells things out quite nicely.
Mormonism = excuse to act nutty and sleep with alot of women.
- I don't care if two men or women want to get married. I don't care if you believe in magic underwear and magic newts. Just don't bother me with it. Why do these cultist people always have to force their views on everyone else? I am sick of it - maybe we need to put them on an island by themselves somewhere. They don't even understand that their "religion" is based on a scam - thats pretty sad. Leave the gays alone and spend your church money on something like helping the poor, feeding the hungry, you know - church stuff.

Posted On: Monday, Nov. 17 2008 @ 2:44PM
Jax says:

I take Mormonism as seriously as the mormons who keep their ciggies & booze at my aunt's house do.

Posted On: Monday, Nov. 17 2008 @ 5:28PM
RJ says:

What a pore sorce, Fawn Brodie.
Respectfully,
Historian

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 19 2008 @ 1:42PM
bosshog says:

mormons absolutely DO hate gays.

has anyone heard of a lovely place called EVERGREEN ?

it's a GAY REHAB place owned and run by the LDS MORMONS.

they give gay teens psychotropic drugs.

they hook their genitals up to electic shock machines and shock them while the kids watch gay porn.

and ladies -- you'd better hold on to your uteruses, because the mormons will be coming after those next.

they are a dangerous group with a $60 billion empire.


Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 22 2008 @ 2:39AM
bosshog says:

RJ:

As a brilliant self-proclaimed "historian" (yeah, right), your POOR spelling must be extremely embarrassing for you.

*** The correct spelling is POOR, not PORE.

I've noticed MANY posts by mormons over the past month that have the most atrocious grammar and spelling errors.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 29 2008 @ 3:56PM
Julia says:

If I remember correctly marriage by law in the United States has always been the legal union of one man and one woman. If you don't believe that check your history books. Mormons were viciously attacked, beaten, driven out of their homes, and murdered based on that principle of the marriage law, which at the time they disagreed with. They (those of the current lds Church) accepted the law and have been faithful to it and this country.

It is ironic that they should be again persecuted and reviled for supporting the same law that used against them in the past that states that marriage is between one man and one woman.

Maybe people just want an excuse to hate Mormons. Haters of Mormons don't actually believe in tolerance, or they would practice it. The proof is in the pudding.

Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 3 2008 @ 2:54PM
mirrorball says:

oh, those poor poor mormons !

julia, you left out the meadow mountain massacre -- the bloodiest attack on american soil up to the oklahoma city bombing.

the meadow mountain massacre was brought to us courtesy of .... the mormons.

and of course let's not forget all those teenage chicks ol' snake-oil smith couldn't wait to get his horny paws on.

there are MANY mormons in my family (blind sheep) -- 99% of them are ALL BIGOTS and EXTREMELY RACIST.

basically, they're a bunch of idiots.

Posted On: Sunday, Dec. 7 2008 @ 2:58AM
Colorless Green says:

"You would not want your children to face the awful darkness which homosexuality has brought into your life...so don't ask us to surrender our children to your recruitment tactics or to such a future"

I laughed out loud at this. "Recruitment tactics"? So gays are trying to recruit straights into their, uh, club? Wow- this is news to me. Personally, I think they could do a far better job of advertising. I mean, from what I gather, being gay isn't exactly a pleasure cruise, what with having your rights taken away, being routinely discriminated against, publicly demonized and humiliated. Sounds so enticing, I'm surprised everyone hasn't bought into the gay club! Oh right, it's not a CHOICE- you can't convince people to be gay (or straight, Evergreeners) any more than you can convince them to be tall. Gays aren't trying to swell their numbers- they're trying to lead normal, happy lives with all the rights/privileges the rest of Americans enjoy. Mormons, and for that matter, Christians in general, ARE trying to swell their numbers, obnoxiously. I've had probably a dozen Christians (including some Mormon nutjobs) knocking on my door in the last year, trying to either give me the "solutions" or asking me if I've accepted Jesus in my heart (whatever that means), while I've NEVER had a homosexual trying to pawn some "literature" off on me. Hmmm...

Posted On: Sunday, Dec. 14 2008 @ 4:40AM
cha-ching ! says:

LDS wants all the recruits they can get because they want that 10% of their paychecks, and they want it EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

they brainwash their dumbbells into believing that if they don't pay their "tithing", they won't receive "blessings from the lord".
that bad things will happen to them.

they re-invest that cash-ola into stocks and lds-owned businesses.

it NEVER, EVER goes to "charity"
(their members THINK it does -- but not a dime of goes to charity).

that's why the cult is worth over $30 billion.

Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 17 2008 @ 2:52AM
Storm Smtih says:

The Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians. Even more, the Church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of many churches worldwide

Posted On: Sunday, Feb. 8 2009 @ 9:59PM
Nathan says:

Regardless of one's opinions on gays and gay marriages, it is pure HYPOCRISY for a religion founded by a proven child molester (and white supremacists - look up the racist speeches by the first several prophets) to be preaching about sexual morality to anyone. Period. If you read the Book of Mormon (esp. 2nd Nephi) you'll find it is a religion founded on hate and bigotry.

Posted On: Tuesday, Feb. 17 2009 @ 8:51AM
Mark says:

What a bigoted, hateful article. The author should be ashamed of publicly presenting such a fearful and inaccurate piece. Disgusting.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 24 2009 @ 8:34PM
mirrorball says:

i thought the article was SPOT ON, and i think the author of the article is BRILLIANT.

he wrote the FACTS.

Posted On: Monday, Apr. 27 2009 @ 2:24AM
Anonymous says:

Wow, this was the most historically inacurate p.o.s I have ever read. I'm not just saying that because I am LSA, but I am saying that because I have studied alot of NON BIASED books about these things and this is all garbage. It's obvious that the author has an agenda and isnt it a shame that he cant leave the agenda out of reporting FACTS. What an Jackass. I think its so funny that liberals (i.e. most gays) demand equal rights and demand that you respect their opinions and beliefs but they wont do the same to others who disagree with them. So I am not allowed to disagree with you but you can disagree with me and belittle me and make fun of me because you dont understand or agree with my beliefs??? Hypocritical jack asses. The gays singled out the LDS but didnt bother any other religion......they use the excuse "they raised the most money"....bull crap....you needed a scape goat and it wouldnt be politically correct to harrass the Jews or Catholics, etc.....they targeted the Mormons because its still considered ok. The Mormons didnt even do anything illegal and never said anything derrogatory towards gays.....too bad they cant say the same.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 26 2009 @ 3:46PM
P. Lillis (Actual) says:

Hello,
Yes Joe J got it right! (Pasted below)
"Pat Lillis" is an ongoing episode
of “sock puppetry” performed by a professional internet stalker named Timothy K. Ready (Tim Ready), who was born in Hopwood, PA and now lives in Seattle.
He actually USED to live in Brooklyn,
but was born in 1971 -- so sadly, he is not 23. He is just mentally disturbed person severe anger issues -- and he insists on attacking people online in place of having a life.
Pat Lillis (Tim R’s ex-friend)

P.S. Tim R has also violated these terms of use: 6. Impersonating any person or entity, or falsely stating or otherwise misrepresenting your affiliation with a person or entity
_________________________
Joe J says:
Don't be silly, everyone. Pat Lillis cannot possibly be a real person who would seek out an obscure Village Voice story online and take his time to write something like that. You've been had by an agent provocateur. Sure, there are probably people out there who think like that, but the person who wrote under "Pat LIllis" is probably a 23 year old in Brooklyn.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 15 2008 @ 8:44PM

Posted On: Wednesday, Jun. 3 2009 @ 3:22AM
Hinds says:

Whoever wrote this paper was writing on behalf of opinion, I conclude to say. For one, the author said that Americans were "bored" after being isolated after so many years post colonial and revolutionary era. My good man, Americans had a sense of Work in their hearts and they had Freedom. No nation in the World could have been a more happier, prosperous and productive people than the Americans in the 1820s.

But to go to the source;gays and mormons. I do not think that the mormons hate the gays, as your title suggests. The mormons are taught to love all mankind, as are all Christians. There is an old saying, "Love the sinner, but hate the sin." Jesus is the great example of love towards his fellowman. Any Christian that does hate a queer is in the wrong. But it is the will of God to multiply and replenish the Earth. This I believe, and I mean no offence towards anyone individual or group of people.

Posted On: Sunday, Jul. 19 2009 @ 5:22PM
Cactcap says:

Mormons hate gays, Jews, Blacks and Christians too. In fact, they believe that because of the vile and decadence of the Christians, America is corrupt.

That's why Rex Rammell's, Idaho gubernatorial candidate, invited all Mormons to a "Mormon only" meeting where Mormons with the "priesthood" can talk about "saving the Constitution" in accordance with the secret Mormon prophesy "The Doctrine of the
Constitution Hanging by a Thread".

http://mormonzeitgeist.com/node/237

Posted On: Monday, Jan. 18 2010 @ 7:00PM

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