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Events

Times Square Tea Party Denounces Obama, Media, Imaginary Tax Rates, Etc. (Updated)

By Roy Edroso, Wednesday, Jul. 1 2009 @ 8:34PM
Comments (132)
Categories: Featured, In the Streets, Politics, Protest
timessquaretea.jpg

(Update: We reviewed the tape -- citizen Victor claimed 34 minutes' worth of tax money was taken out each hour of his labor, not 45 as originally reported.)

They had another one of those Tea Party things this evening, this time right next to the Times Square subway station on Broadway. The anti-Obama pep rally occupied part of the street and part of the sidewalk and stretched from the subway entrance to the door of Ruby Tuesday's, which is to say two-thirds of a block; by our estimate it was about half as well-attended as the City Hall tea party in April, so we'd say there were between a thousand and 1,500 people there -- which we're sure enthusiasts will correct to 2.5 million and "MSM LIES!!!"

lousydeficits.jpg

Though the organizers claimed it was a non-partisan event, many of the signs and t-shirts were anti-Obama ("Don't Blame Me I Voted for the Old White Guy," Calvin peeing on the Obama logo, etc). Others celebrated the 2nd Amendment and denounced the Federal Reserve. The major theme, reflected in the paper signs handed out by sponsoring group TeaParty365 to protesters, was "Taxed Enough Already." Speakers expressed concern for their allegedly endangered freedoms, but were most exercised by the prospect of giving up any more of their money.

kguidats.jpg

"Reckless spending, unread legislative bills, and runaway government -- I'm sick of it," said Organizer Kellen Giuda. He was also sick of being ignored. "Fox is here... where's the rest of the media? Millions of people across the country are protesting against their government and they're refusing to put it on TV." The crowd booed and bayed, which as always we enjoyed very much.

"It's time to act and TeaParty365 is ready to lead," said Guida. "I'm here to tell you that you won't see bloated bureaucracy and the wasting of your money when you donate to us."

David Webb, filling the interlocutor role he held at April's rally, said they were there to "send a message to our leaders, doesn't matter what party they're in... you represent us, we elect you, and we demand accountability." He also lavishly praised the NYPD for their support, bravery, etcetera, which is always a good idea when you have this many gun fans in your audience.

dmurdock.jpg

The first speaker was rightwing columnist Deroy Murdock (one thing you have to say about Obama -- he's been a one-man affirmative action program for black conservative speakers). Murdock set the non-partisan tone when he announced that he had been in the "free-market conservative movement" since volunteering in 1979 to work for Ronald Reagan, which delighted the crowd. Murdock said legislators were acting like "teenagers with mommy and daddy's credit card," of which he was "sick and bloody tired." He also harshed on Janeane Garofalo -- and George Bush, leading to a long, confused silence from the crowd, which deepened when Murdock added, "Shame on George W. Bush, and shame on his architect, the overexposed Karl Rove." But then he got after Obama again, and "so-called global warming," and all was forgiven. "The American taxpayer," Murdock concluded, "is exhausted when he is not downright anemic."

victortea.jpg

Then Webb returned to a schtick he'd availed at City Hall Park: bringing an Ordinary, Anti-Obama Citizen up from the crowd. This time he got "Victor," a psychiatrist who sounded a little like Stewie from The Family Guy. Victor complained that from every hour he works, the government takes 45 34 minutes worth of his earnings. We didn't think America did 75 56 percent marginal tax rates anymore, but it played well with the crowd. (Update: Thanks to our commenters for correcting the record!) "When do I become a slave?" Victor asked, presumably rhetorically. He predicted the tax rate would soon go up to 55 minutes out of each earner's hour. Then people will really be mad!

hlondon.jpg

Next came Herb London, president of the right-wing Hudson Institute, power-dressed in pinstripes and announcing "The Second American Revolution." "I fell asleep in 1965 and woke up in 2009," he said, presumably speaking figuratively, "and to my astonishment, GM is owned by the government..." He was enraged that a national health care program was in the offing, and that we were "entering a new age, in which computers will decide whether in fact that hip replacement you need will be a tin item or a titanium item, based on age and what some bureaucrat thinks is important" -- as opposed to the current system, under which one gets what one can afford, as God intended.

maureentea.jpg

Then another Ordinary Anti-Obama Citizen was hauled forward, a delightful Lawn Guyland "stay-at-home mom" named Maureen who was concerned that the health insurance her husband, who "works hard every day," gets from his job, will be "taxed" under the Obama Socialist Health Care Plan. This, too, is news to us, but the crowd felt deeply for Maureen, who demanded that those politicians in Washington "leave us alone."

Webb brought up another repeat visitor from April, the exceptionally uptight Tom Basile ("Look," said a guy outside the protest pens, "it's that dude from The Office"). Basile began promisingly, making a teleprompter joke, and there were more speakers promised, including the legendary Stephen Baldwin, and probably more Ordinary Citizens too, but you know what? Life is too fucking short.

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More About:

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Comments (132)

iwasliberal says:

Obviously you must not open and pay your own bills. Either you're an elitist and an accountant does that for you, or you're a career entitlement recipient. Because the rest of Americans have seen tax increases on EVERYTHING in only a few short months.

Electric and gas bill: more than doubled; when I called and asked why, they said "new state & federal regs have increased our rates". Car & homeowners insurance: 39% increase. Their answer: "new state & federal regs have increased our rates". Family's tax cut/credits for school loans discontinued. Their answer: "The President passed new rules in the stimulus package that now designate $75K annual salary as 'upper income', which now disqualifies you". (BTW, their salary: $79K and 4 kids. Wealthy? Please.) And to top it off, state BPU sent "energy counselors" to my home in March to try and inspect for 'energy efficiency' - sent me a letter telling me I must replace appliances with energy efficient ones, must re-insulate home (which is a condo, duh!) & must reduce my energy use. Their explanation: "In the stimulus bill it states anyone on SS disability or state aid is required to reduce energy use and related costs" (hubby on SS, hence also the increased energy use - home all day!).

IMAGINARY INCREASES IN TAX RATES?

Posted On: Wednesday, Jul. 1 2009 @ 11:28PM
you'reoncrackwingnut says:

Hubby on Social Security, iwash? Shouldn't you be suffocating that little socialist bitch with a pillow?

Go Galt or get off the pot!

Posted On: Wednesday, Jul. 1 2009 @ 11:49PM
Nom de Plume says:

"iwasliberal", that was a great story. Do you have any non-fiction to share with us?

Posted On: Wednesday, Jul. 1 2009 @ 11:50PM
taxeduntildeath says:

I wish I can suffocate SS with a pillow, but the 12% it takes is suffocating me.

Oh, and about that "non-fiction"? Maybe you should shop for groceries once every so often. Seems price for essentials have gone way up or the packages are getting way too little. That's called inflation, and that is when the Fed Reserve prints so much money that the dollar craps out.

That's aside from the utilities that, as iwasliberal stated, is going up and will likely double from that Crap and Tax POS that they're trying to force feed on the citizenry. Maybe you people should try to earn a living instead of asking for entitlements that you don't deserve.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:07AM
synykyl says:

Because the rest of Americans have seen tax increases on EVERYTHING in only a few short months.

You should definitely let Elvis know about this.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:14AM
The Dark Avenger says:

the 12% it takes is suffocating me.

SS is only 7.65%, so if someone is taking out 12% and telling you it's for SS, you're dumber than you thought you were smart.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:28AM
MacKenna says:

Funny how these rageaholic wingnuts never noticed the enormous deficit Bush rang up, borrowing billions from totalitarian still Communist China, to pay for an illegal invasion of Iraq. Funny how they never complained about the deregulation of finance republican elected officials supported, including McCain, that lead to the collapse of global economies.

Of course, Obama's to blame for it all.

People are stupid, what can I tell you.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:31AM
MacKenna says:

P.S. I have yet to encounter a psychiatrist who isn't well to do. The one complaining looks pretty well fed to me.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:33AM
roy edroso says:

IMAGINARY INCREASES IN TAX RATES?

Where'd you read that? Not here, certainly.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:39AM
Liberty2012 says:

These Tea Party Rallies aren't anti-Obama rallies or pro-Republican rallies. They're suppose to be about spreading the philosophy of freedom and liberty that BOTH Obama and Bush's policies bucked heads with. Supporters of the cause hope to restore a limited government (as outlined in our Constitution), return to sound money (by abolishing the Federal Reserve), defend free markets (which we do not have) and promote a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:51AM
taxeduntildeath says:

Um, SS is 12% for self-employed people you numbnut, and yes, it is suffocating.

Secondly, most of us did criticize the Bush bailouts and do happen to believe he was one of the worst presidents ever. I think most of you were born with a brain. If you can maybe use it once in a while instead of repeating the same old partisan garbage that is regurgitated from the so-called media, you probably see that Bush and Obama's economy policies as it pertains to Wall Street are one and the same.

Both Dems and Repubs are dividing and conquering all of us, and are two sides of the same coin. I strongly advise all of you to try to look past the partisan banter and see the real truth behind both parties.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:56AM
Anonymous says:

...but the 12% it takes is suffocating me.

somewhere in argentina, a woman breaks into tears

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:02AM
synykyl says:

.. These Tea Party Rallies aren't anti-Obama rallies or pro-Republican rallies. ...

Really? Better tell that to the participants.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:15AM
Anonymous says:

The April 15 event was huge and filled with excitement and incredible speakers. Tonight was lame, lame, lame. It would have been better to have done nothing tonight than to have put on this half-assed carnival of B-graders. The fat guy and the skinny dork are not exactly leaders and really should...go away.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:35AM
wake up says:

you lost me at "imaginary tax rates". have you people even read hr2454? don't you know anyone who smokes or drinks? have you not been paying attention to the president's most recent concessions regarding his health care plans?

people who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't be allowed near modems.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:56AM
Trevor J says:

Secondly, most of us did criticize the Bush bailouts and do happen to believe he was one of the worst presidents ever.

I keep hearing this from conservatives. Who the hell were all those morons who voted for him? No one seems to want to fess up.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:02AM
anonymous says:

Yeah, yeah, "wake up". Good think we have folks like you defending our liberty.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:05AM
Steve J. says:

They're suppose to be about spreading the philosophy of freedom and liberty

And they FAIL. Most of these people think Mark Levin really is a constitutional lawyer.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:54AM
Steve J. says:

They're suppose to be about spreading the philosophy of freedom and liberty

And they FAIL. Most of these people think Mark Levin really is a constitutional lawyer.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:55AM
Steve J. says:

defend free markets

LMFAO! When you get over Ayn Rand, get in touch with us.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:58AM
Anonymous says:

Um, SS is 12% for self-employed people you numbnut, and yes, it is suffocating.

No, it's 15.30%
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=310&p_created=959284761&p_sid=cSFUrOBj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9OTUsOTUmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PTEuMiZwX3BhZ2U9MQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 3:00AM
IndyGuy says:

so amazing, the elitist contempt for everyday people in this article. People are fed up, just the money they have printed is the largest tax increase in history.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:02AM
Anonymous says:

so amazing, the elitist contempt for everyday people in this article.

Yes, the Randians/cons/Rethugs do have contempt for the average person, it's good that you mention it.

Or did you mean something else?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:16AM
Anonymous says:

Hubby on Social Security, iwash?

I particularly enjoyed the combination of the $75000+ annual income that was the supposed cause for having the "Family's tax cut/credits for school loans discontinued" and the husband on Social Security disability.

The whole thing read like bullshit to me. Nice of them to choose a handle like "iwasliberal" so people who didn't want to bother reading it could still tell what it was.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:25AM
Butch says:

Wow! That's some of the worst photography I've ever seen. Thanks for the laugh.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 8:15AM
LittlePig says:

Ah yes, if we only go back to the good old days of the Gipper, when the maximum rate was only 50%...

Nothing demonstrates how cushy things are in America that folks as silly as the tea partyers can live comfortable lives. It's a good thing all those fiscal conservatives eliminated Social Security and Medicare so they could pay for all the tax cutting done since St. Ronnie was in office.....oh wait...

Seriously tea partyers, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore" does not an economic plan make.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 8:23AM
sarcastic says:

You must not have been there .... or 1,500 people in Times Square is so insignificant a number I didn't notice. The "pen" on 41st to 42nd street on 7th Ave was about 1/2 full and that was the extent of the gathering.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 8:34AM
roy edroso says:

you lost me at "imaginary tax rates". have you people even read hr2454? don't you know anyone who smokes or drinks?

There seems to be a general confusion here of the terms "rates" and "hikes." Have you tried increasing the font size?

people who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't be allowed near modems

That would be the end of the internet.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 8:37AM
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© says:

That would be the end of the internet.

It's outlived its usefulness, anyways.
~

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:26AM
The Dark Avenger says:

If you're self-employed, you get to take 1/2 of the SE tax amount as a deduction on the front page of your tax return as an adjustment to your income: you do so on line 37 in the 2009 form 1040.

Perhaps you should learn a little more about how taxes work before you start calling someone numbnuts, anony.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:29AM
tominator says:

Why is it you libs can only mock and ridicule conservatives but not come back with any facts supporting why it makes sense to raise taxes, print money and borrow trillions from the Chinese? Mix in a math course or two with your Marxist studies. Also read about "Hauser's Law". No matter what the marginal tax rates are, captured revenues cap out at about 19% of GNP. But high taxes kill GNP and thus captured revenue. That is playing out now in California, New York, Mass. etc. If we implemented all of Obama's social programs, wouldn't it make sense to do them with more GNP and thus more revenue?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:39AM
Ben says:

These imaginary stories of winger heartbreak are great. I especially like the one about inflation. "The food index decreased for the fourth consecutive month" [http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm] in the real world, but in wingnut land STIMULUS HAS TO MAKE THE FOOD COST MORE OK!

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:43AM
Danial Panzella says:

Victor didnt say 45 minutes, he said they take about 36 minutes out of each hour he works. He then when on to say, when does it become enough? When they take 45 minutes? 55 minutes? typical spin. Keep worshipping Obama, you people are fools, both Bush and Obama have the same boss. The FED who owns this country. Yes i was there at the protest, im holding the sign, "Audit The Federal Reserve."

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:10AM
Susan of Texas says:

The right wing doesn't seem to remember that Bush tried to eliminate Social Security. And that he started two wars that have to be paid for eventually. Freedom isn't free, you know. Let somebody else pay for food for soldiers and bullets for their guns, they whine. It's not fair, they whimper, as men and women put their lives on the line for them.

Sure, eliminate those horrible, onerous taxes. Then pay for your own medical expenses, Mrs. Medicare. Give up the Social Security and they can't make you do a damn thing. But you won't, because like every other mindless hypocrite out there you'll take what you can get and bray that you don't want to pay for it. In your sacred business world that's called stealing.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:20AM
Realist says:

Why is it you libs can only mock and ridicule conservatives

Because that's all you deserve.

Want your arguments taken seriously? Make serious arguments.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:21AM
Tominator says:

Realist, you just made my argument for me. Seriously!

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:29AM
Anonymous says:
MacKenna says: Funny how these rageaholic wingnuts never noticed the enormous deficit Bush rang up, borrowing billions from totalitarian still Communist China, to pay for an illegal invasion of Iraq.
They don't really care about all the huge deficits and mountains of debt racked up during the Reagan, BushI and BushII administrations.

We had 8 years of deficits under Reagan, another 4 years of deficits under BushI and then another 7 years of deficits under BushII.

The vast majority of our national debt was amassed under Republican presidents who signed 19 deficit budgets into law every single year they were in office.

Now the Credit-Card Republicans are worried about debt and deficits? Where have they been for the last 3 decades?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:40AM
JudyPNY says:

I did not expect any one from the Village Voice say anything in favor or even say anything nice about this or any other rally. However, I did not expect the last line: "Life is too fucking short."

The language is not needed; it shows your inability to discuss things in a civil manner...

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:50AM
Susan of Texas says:

Credit-Card Republicans is a perfect term. Like George Bush they want everything now, as long as they can put off paying for it.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:50AM
Duncan says:

If you teabaggers hate America so much, why don't you go back to Russia? Get a job! TAKE A BATH!

"Why is it you libs can only mock and ridicule conservatives but not come back with any facts supporting why it makes sense to raise taxes, print money and borrow trillions from the Chinese?..."

Well, it makes sense to raise taxes to support Bush's and Obama's war. That's what created our enormous deficits to start with, though we'd have had deficits anyway because of Bush's tax cuts. (Which also accounts for all that money borrowed from the Chinese.) As a number of people have pointed out here, the rates used to be higher in Reagan's day, and higher still in the glory days of the 1950s that so many on the Right are nostalgic for.

For the record, I'm not on entitlements -- that would be "iwasliberal"'s hubby. I work for a living. I imagine most of us who jeer at the DFT's are doing the same.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:00AM
Brian says:

Self employed pay 2X on social security so its over 15%. If you want the government to run every aspect of you lives keep you head you know where because that's whats coming. Bush wasn't the brightest bulb but Obama is NO messiah unless you like Marx. Keep letting the Dem/Repub arguments divide us and soon we wont have any choices.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:09AM
Concerned Teabagger For Liberty, Freedom and Taxcuts says:
Brian says: Bush wasn't the brightest bulb but...
Bush was a total catastrophuck. Let's not sugarcoat it.
... Obama is NO messiah unless you like Marx.
Groucho, or Harpo? Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:24AM
Tominator says:

"Well, it makes sense to raise taxes to support Bush's and Obama's war".

Again, refer to earlier lesson. Higher rates don't equate to higher revenue. They only lower GNP which kills tax revenue. Again, observe California.
There is not a tax rate which cannot be outspent by our government (both parties). Clinton balanced the budget by working with the Republican Congress to cut taxes and spending. Your argument seems to be that Obama, by astronomically multiplying Bush's policies can accomplish the results that Clinton achieved. But, then again, he is dreamy and defies gravity.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:25AM
liberty2012 says:

"Now the Credit-Card Republicans are worried about debt and deficits? Where have they been for the last 3 decades?"

I agree. Most of these people sat quiet during those years and watched the Republican Party abandon limited government. What we have with both Democrats and Republicans are factions of the same party fighting over whose friends get favors and money from the political coffers. They're two sides of the same coin and have been acting as such for a very long time.

People should be upset with this current administration and voice their discontent as Obama's policies have been inconsistent with liberty. I want to cut taxes now, withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, not have a government "option" (because we all know the gov't hates competition and no matter how awful it's option is it will continue to fund it's failure thru tax dollars) and be left alone.

Here in America, we vote on everything as if we have any business telling other people how to live. If you like socialism and mixed economies and universal healthcare, then move to one of the many countries that offer it. Leave America to those freedom lovers who respect the Constitution and the principles this country was founded on.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:26AM
Anonymous says:

If the very future of the nation and world is at stake, as these guys argue, exactly who at this event is supposed to be the savior? A "frustrated" organizer who looks about 12 years old? An obscure radio guy with "schtick"? Some "rightwing columnist" no one has ever heard of? Some washed up dude who "fell asleep in 1965." Tough to take the predictions of Western Civilization's collapse too seriously with this list.

What have any of these people ever done in city, state or federal government that qualifies them to be any better alternative? I see nothing.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:37AM
Brian says:

Hey concerned does he run around honking his little horn? If you cant see where this is all heading you guys are blind or just dont care. Have a Happy 4th

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:43AM
fit says:

NOTHING more entertaining than libtard biased backlash on events and matters they know nothing about. The cabbage patch generation will be paying for Pelosi long after the woodstock crowd has passed. Enjoy, fools.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:44AM
Anonymous says:
Tominator says: Clinton balanced the budget by working with the Republican Congress to cut taxes and spending.
Er, Clinton passed "the biggest tax increase in history" (according to wingnuts of the day) with his Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, and without a single Republican vote.

All the wingnuts of the day swore that Clinton's Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 would kill jobs, hurt the economy and promote erectile dysfunction among the talk radio elites, but history proved them wrong on the first two claims.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:44AM
atheist says:
Again, refer to earlier lesson. Higher rates don't equate to higher revenue. They only lower GNP which kills tax revenue.

See? Taxes aren't just bad, they're IMPOSSIBLE!

Perhaps you can create some clever logic which shows how wars don't have to be paid for, or that gravity is only an illusion.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:44AM
Anonymous says:

"If the very future of the nation and world is at stake, as these guys argue, exactly who at this event is supposed to be the savior?"

We are hard at work looking for an empty suit cult figure. An obscure mixed race politician with a great smile and good looking family would be nice. Know where we can find one?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:46AM
Tominator says:

"If the very future of the nation and world is at stake, as these guys argue, exactly who at this event is supposed to be the savior?"

We are hard at work looking for an empty suit cult figure. An obscure mixed race Congressman or Senator with a great smile and good looking family who has voted "present" 130 times or more on tough issues would be nice. Know where we can find one?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:49AM
Anonymous says:

It's just funny that you people question Obama's credentials and then parade out a bunch of nobodys. One guy "organizes." What? One guy speaks into a microphone on a radio show no one has ever heard of. One guy is 130 years old from an institute no one has ever heard of. And another writes articles for who the hell knows. Not one person who has ever touched legislation or public policy in any capacity or who is a bonafide expert. And some B-grade actor.

With this list, I'd shut up about Obama's credentials. You guys had your chance, like this pitiful event right here. And your alternative is a big nothing.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:03PM
Tominator says:

Right... Slam "Organizers". Good Move.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:12PM
TarrantLibertyGuy says:

I can't speak for everyone at these events, but I'll attend some of these and being a libertarian, I'm fiscally conservative, but socially tolerant. Gay Marriage and legal pot? Sure! Anti-war? You bet! Trillions to bail out non-productive corporations and individuals? Not so much.

I live in Texas, where fortunately we don't have a state income tax. This year, I did an analysis for all of my taxes that I'm DIRECTLY responsible for: Federal Income, SS, State and Local Sales Tax (think I was pretty accurate with my estimation), State, local, school, hospital and community college district real estate taxes, as well as things like gas taxes, phone taxes, car registration fees, and a few other extraneous taxes and fees that I don't have at the top of my head. So, taxes I paid straight out of my pocket amounted to 61% of my income.

So, 61% in taxes paid by me, the bulk of it going to the Federal Government. Also, with regards to Social Security Taxes, true, I don't pay the entire amount, but I see the part that my employer pays as an indirect tax as it would go to me otherwise. However, I didn't include it in my total.

Also, as far as iwasliberal's assertions of indirect 'tax increases' through increased costs of services, I've found there to be similar increases (maybe not doubled). And although I haven't actually called and asked why... if it's not 'passthrough costs of regulatory expenses' it's due to inflationary practices of printing money to cover massive debt. This is the most regressive tax since tax increases on tobacco products.

Asking our representatives to actually read the legislation they're voting on isn't too much to ask, and the 300 pages of the Cap and Trade Act snuck in during the dead of night made this a direct breach of the one week public review that Obama promised. These are the sort of things these so-called 'tea baggers' are protesting.

As to the requests of the "quit griping and show us your economic policies" folks, well - as long winded as I am, I'll just say that the Cato Institute seems to have some great economic policy analysis and proposals. Check 'em out at (WWW)dot(cato)dot(org).


And as to the assertions that these people are confused or silent when presented with anti-George W. Bush statements. Not me! I didn't vote for him (I always vote Libertarian Party - because I vote my principals). So, take it from this anti-war, pro-gay marriage, pro-pot legalization, anti-multi-trillion dollar debt and anti-tax increasing guy... Power to the Person! Not the government. So, imaginary tax increases? Not so much.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:14PM
lostmypassword says:

you lost me at "imaginary tax rates"

ROFL

You wingnuts can't even read and want us to take you seriously ???

reading 101:
a)imaginary "something" = something that doesn't exist.
b)45 minutes out of 1 hour taxed = 75% tax rate = something that doesn't exist.

The title refers to that psychiatrist lie. There is no 75% tax rate, hence a teabagger speaker is complaining about "imaginary tax rates".

I guess you could make an argument that there was only ONE imaginary tax rate on the speeches, but other than that, the title is describing perfectly what went on.

And you giys can't even fucking read it right to make your points.

So we should take you seriously because of half assed reading of things proves you are.... GENIUSES ?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:29PM
Jay B. says:

Right... Slam "Organizers". Good Move.

I agree. Now of course, you understand that your "empty suit" bullshit above also takes into account that OBAMA himself was a community organizer of considerable merit. And the despised and bizarrely feared ACORN is made up of organizers and volunteers. So yes, tell us again about this distain us liberals have toward organizers. I missed the last election and have been in a coma since then.

And Tex, if you pay 61% of your total income in taxes you are doing something drastically wrong. Moreover, what makes you think your employer or your business would pay you more if there wasn't taxes?

What would happen is that they'd have to spend a tremendous amount on infrastructure, manufacture their own electricity (or pay an unregulated rate, which would prove to be astronomical), they would be fielding employees who would be largely illiterate and basically inept and be serving a similar client base. There would be little market for the Middle Class because, largely, there would be no middle class. And people would be caring for their elderly and sick parents for much of their prime earning years -- and probably their kids too, since most of them wouldn't be able to afford school. Meanwhile, there would be shitty, above-the-law security outfits, undisciplined firefighters and epic amounts of homeless people.

So where do you see these vast earnings, champ? Who fuels the economy? How long would it be before Houston would turn into Mogudishu, without the colonial charm?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:36PM
Dawn says:

It doesn't matter how much people like you try to distort our message or how much the main stream media tries to cover up and ridicule the TEA Parties. Americans have a birthright to Freedom, and the truth will come out as more and more people search for a way to make a difference. If you watch C-SPAN for even an hour, and listen to these guys talk, you would see how completely out of touch they are with mainstream America. We don't want Government intrusion into every aspect of our lives. WE want the Constitution followed and the freedom to live our lives as we see fit as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's life.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:44PM
tb says:
Why is it you libs can only mock and ridicule conservatives but not come back with any facts supporting why it makes sense to raise taxes, print money and borrow trillions from the Chinese? Mix in a math course or two with your Marxist studies.

Fuck, I didn't even know they covered that stuff in "math" class. I suck.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:46PM
Tominator says:

So... What is the tax rate at which economic and social Nirvana occureth?

Sorry, I should have put a "fucking" or "shitty" in there somewhere. But I'm not a wordsmith like you guys.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:46PM
TarrantLibertyGuy says:

@lostmypassword - that Psychiatrist claiming 75% taxrate (which the minutes per hour he mentioned is in dispute)... taking under consideration that my direct tax bill mentioned above was 61% (that is to ALL taxing authorities... a.k.a. 'The government'), I don't see why his assertion of 75% to 'the government' - that is every taxing authority - is too far off base in high taxing New York City.

Consider State Income Tax... Heck, isn't there even a City Income Tax in NYC? Public road tolls, 8+% sales tax, property taxes, Property Taxes (state, local, school), Business Taxes, Medicare/Medicaid, Telephone, parking (in NYC), Gas, Utility, I'm sure there are more... 71% is starting to sound low to me - when we talk about 'money going to the government'. THINK about the total tax rates... not just Federal.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:48PM
Jorsh says:

It appears most of the right-wing commenters are of the Paultard variety. I wish I had known about this tea party protests as you seldom encounter Paultards in the wild, only on the internet.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:52PM
ignatov says:

"We are hard at work looking for an empty suit cult figure. An obscure mixed race politician with a great smile and good looking family would be nice. Know where we can find one?"

Bobby Jindal?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:00PM
Tominator says:

Jorsh, may I suggest, next post throw in a "whatever" to give us a real indicator of your brilliance.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:02PM
Anonymous says:

We don't want Government intrusion into every aspect of our lives.

Sorry. We had that debate. You lost. And with this parade of non-expert losers, I think you ought to get used to losing.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:04PM
Anonymous says:

MacKenna, We were mad as hell then, too - you just weren't listening. Just like they weren't listening then. We are the same people who have been challenging the Republicans over imigration "reform" (I use that word oh so lightly) and on TARP. Who do you think it was that was screaming about it? It certainly wasn't the party who loves to spend spend spend (as long as it's not on our troop safety, that is)

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:05PM
ignatov says:

"We don't want Government intrusion into every aspect of our lives."

Just the bedroom.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:12PM
R. Stanton Scott says:

TarrantLibertyGuy:

And for your 61% you get national defense, police forces, clean running water and flush toilets (because government mandates them), roads without potholes, people making sure your food is safe, a guy who puts out the fire destroying your house, parks to go camping in, schools, the internet, and all manner of other things that you would have to do, make, or invent yourself if we did not act collectively--and pay for it.

You are paying to belong to a pretty good club. If you think it's too expensive, find another one.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:12PM
Anonymous says:

"We had that debate. You lost"

Actually, we never had that debate. Obama campaigned and still talks like he is a combination of Bill Clinton and JFK but governs like he is the love child of Woodrow Wilson and Hugo Chavez.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:18PM
ignatov says:

"Sorry, I should have put a 'fucking' or 'shitty' in there somewhere. But I'm not a wordsmith like you guys..."

"Jorsh, may I suggest, next post throw in a 'whatever' to give us a real indicator of your brilliance."

Oh, blow it out your ass, you sanctimonious twit.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:18PM
synykyl says:

...It doesn't matter how much people like you try to distort our message or how much the main stream media tries to cover up and ridicule the TEA Parties....

Then why come here and bitch about it?

BTW, the MSM is not trying to make you look ridiculous, you *are* ridiculous.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:25PM
Tominator says:

That's a plus on the sanctimonious. Minus on the blow it out your ass.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:32PM
tb says:

Yeah, we get it- you don't like naughty language. Point taken.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:36PM
Tom Jones says:

Why the underexposed photos? No good photogs in NYC?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:46PM
Jay B. says:

Blahblahblah.

Some folks talk about freedom as an American birthright as if that has anything to do with their life. Freedom? OK, so the morons get their way and totally gut government. What happens then? You think corporations put a premium on your happiness or your freedom? You think their shareholders think of you as an independent agent of hope and desire, or just another fleshbot paid to maximize their wealth? When all you're doing is living for the bottom line -- and that's all that outfits like Cato give a shit about -- where's the freedom in that, anyway?

Giving up money in exchange for a little security on things like retirement and health care -- things which I'd argue, give you more freedom to do things like start your own business, to write your own novel, to travel, to broaden your horizons -- seems endlessly better than the bizarre notion that an unregulated free market absolutely ruled by those with massive wealth would somehow translate for you into a pony made of diamonds and gold.

What it comes down to is what freedom means for you and what it means for me. You want more money without any social compact and the ability to buy as many fucking guns as you want for whatever happens to scare you pissless these days. I want the freedom to enjoy as much as my life as I can with as many people as I can before we shuffle off to the inevitable while maintaining a little human dignity through a fair shake from the government.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 1:49PM
atheist says:

Fuck sanctimony

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:22PM
Anonymous says:

"Fuck sanctimony"

Just consider me your free PR department. Trying to help you get the Progressive message out in a way that doesn't sound angry or bitter. You won, remember?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:33PM
Tristan says:

Americans want freedom, it's in our DNA, and a corrupt, out-of-control government that takes 50%+ of our income and redistributes it to whoever it pleases for political and social objectives is incompatible with American values and work ethic.

If we lived in Canada or Singapore, you could make the case that we get value for our tax dollar, but here in the US, Medicare and Social Security are bankrupt, the infrastructure is crumbling, corruption and fraud are rampant, the financial system is mismanaged to the point of economic collapse, etc. Yet the plan is to expand Medicare, unionize more workers, quadruple coal taxes, etc, entrusting our government with trillions more.

Government assistance should be reserved for the tiny fraction of citizens that can't support themselves or have experienced a disaster, not be an automatic birthright that provides government with a reason to clean out the productive part of the economy and transfer the income and assets to itself and lower-income voters in the guise of "fairness". What is fair about getting income you didn't earn? What is fair about telling someone they made too much money and have to hand over half of it? Redistribution will create poverty and deprivation on a massive scale, just as it did in the Soviet Union and the high unemployment rates of the socialist European countries.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:38PM
Tom M says:

Notice how the Tominator (damn you!) managed to throw in a few more snarky comments after he falsely claimed that raising tax rates lowers GNP and was answered almostr immediately with the Clinton actual history: raised taxes (as noted by Anonymous) GNP increased.
And if you ever bothered to look back, you'd note that in 2001 the Cato Institute (I'm sure one of the Tominator's regular readings) analyzed the "Contract with America" programs. The top 20 programs dsignated for elimination actually grew faster under the Gingrich led "revolution" than the next 20 on the list.
Some idea man you have there.

So, Tominator, somebody came back with facts to undercut your argument and you promptly ignored them.
Figures. I mean that at least 2 ways.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:39PM
atheist says:
Obama campaigned and still talks like he is a combination of Bill Clinton and JFK but governs like he is the love child of Woodrow Wilson and Hugo Chavez.

Obama and McCain both campaigned to the American people using a combo of emotion, logic, rhetoric and lies... exactly like any other American presidential candidate would. They debated issues, made speeches, paid for commercials & were covered by the press. If an important issue wasn't talked about, that is unfortunate, but you cannot claim that "we never had that debate".

The majority of the voting public then decided that it preffered Obama. You appear to be angry that they preferred Obama by a decent margin. I'm sorry that this contest did not turn out the way you wanted it to, but this is a reality of politics... you will sometimes find that the majority of the public disagrees with your point of view. This realization is a price of being politically involved, and you should be willing to pay it if you really care about influencing politics.

It is more healthy for you to admit to yourself that the majority of the public disagreed with you about Obama, in November 2008 at least, and continue working for your issue. Is is not healthy to try to convince yourself that Obama somehow fooled or hypnotized the public. Guess what, US elections have always been like this, and have often been much more bitterly fought than this one.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:43PM
atheist says:
Just consider me your free PR department. Trying to help you get the Progressive message out in a way that doesn't sound angry or bitter. You won, remember?

Angry? Bitter? But I am neither angry nor bitter, I am perfectly happy when I tell you, "Fuck sanctimony". It makes me happy, not bitter, to express how uniportant sanctimony and prudishness are to me, and how little weight I give them in my life. Fuck bitterness.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:47PM
Tarrant LibertyGuy says:

Hey JB, R. Stanton, et. al,

Not trying to be argumentative... and I do think that government should do the exact things you mentioned: build certain infrastructures, protect us from criminals, fire and foreign attack. We may diverge on opinions on the way we should educate our children (my belief is that the current public education system, funded and executed as it is, is a failed enterprise). But your argument that we don't agree on the primary responsibility of government is off base.

However, by building massive bureaucracies to support an unfundable social security (62,000 employees) and medicare/medicaid system 67,000 employees; Dept of Homeland Security, 216,000 employees; plus we have 724 OVERSEAS military bases - most with countries that can pretty much protect themselves. We spend over $400 million a day as we occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, continually pissing off additional future terrorist. We spend over $75 Billion a year to track down and jail non-violent drug offenders - overcrowding causing violent non-drug offenders to be released. By sending multiple TRILLIONS to failed industries - really their executives - is completely out of control and, by the way, embraced by leaders of the Dems and GOP.

To your point about our social security system making us more free, I don't buy into that. Even with my 401(k) tanking over the past few years (thanks, Republicans AND Dems), I don't expect to see any of my (ha!) investment into SS. I've paid many hundreds of thousands and I'm pretty confident, I won't see much if any of that. I would say that the benefits earned by workers who are say, over 45 or 50 should get their benefits. 35 - 45, you get some, but get to put more of your income into private investment, if that is your choice, or SS... Younger than 30-ish, you'll be encouraged to take that 12% and invest it! Again, if you're lazy or scared - then go for the real gamble of SS.

A little earlier I began doing a breakdown of how the aforementioned shrink could easily get taxed at a 75% rate - across all taxing authorities - and dammit, I accidentally lost my info and don't want to refigure... but take my word on it, it's possible. Doing a little research on NYC taxation is extremely depressing!

Currently, we have an unfunded gap of between 34 and 63 TRILLION dollars in Social Security and Medicare requirements. By 2020, we're looking at a potential 100% of our GDP to be in public debt. And much of that is used as fuel for bureaucracy, uneeded war machinery, and intrusive (see USA PATRIOT Act) government. In the mean time, the so-called socially tolerant president is still giving the thumbs up on torture, fighting gay marriage in California, eliminating school choice for poor students and raiding legal pharmaceutical marijuana dispensaries.

That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about. I think those points are a valid reason to protest. Seems very logical to me.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:48PM
Anonymous says:

Jay B,
Again I ask. What is the tax rate at which economic and social Nirvana is realized? Europe? I have lived and worked there, and it is great. Wine, Food, Culture and hairy armpits on women which I actually enjoy. Only problem, it is unsustainable and promotes a sense of entitlement that renders those countries uncompetitive in the global economy. How long can governments subsidize companies that are forced by those governments to give peoople 3 months off of their 35 hour work weeks and where you get a cold and call in sick on Monday and tell your boss you are going to take the week off?
There are a lot of poor stewards of capitalism and examples of Corporate Greed recently. Their companies can fail and they can go to jail. Bloated inefficient government is like herpes. You never get rid of it.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:53PM
atheist says:

Anonymous, if you believe that we are shooting for Euro-socialist Nirvana, then you misunderstand us. We don't see ourselves shooting for Nirvana or Utopia, instead we see ourselves trying to hold together an endangered system, and re-orient society so that people have a chance of surviving. These "Tea Baggers" appear to absolutely dead set agains any kind of realistic engagement with the problems of our society. In addition, they seem weirdly selfish and disconnected. This is why we mock them.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 2:58PM
Anonymous says:

"massive bureaucracies... medicare/medicaid system 67,000 employees;"

You wanna talk about massive bureaucracies?

"From August 1997 to August 2007, employment in the health insurance industry grew an astounding 52%, from 293,000 to 444,000.1 During the same period, employment among physicians, nurses, and others who provide health services or work to support them grew half as fast..."

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 3:05PM
synykyl says:

What is the tax rate at which economic and social Nirvana is realized?

Do you think that's a reasonable question?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 3:08PM
TarrantLibertyGuy says:

Hey Anon,
re: Bureaucracies... completely agree! The growth in these organizations are fueled by regulations such as those that introduced the concept of the HMO (thanks Ted Kennedy) and HIPAA - which adds many many billions in added overhead through personnel and bureaucratic hoops to jump through.

Those new employees who joined the ranks of insurance companies are there NOT due to 'free market forces', but rather through policy enacted at the request of insurance company lobbyists - who again, I know this sounds like a broken record - funded both Dem and GOP candidates. By allowing people to competitively shop for insurance rather than to have their health coverage connected to their employment is a step in the right direction.

"So what about these 'free market' insurance companies not paying for their obligations when I get my gall bladder surgery?" I pro-actively assume you'd ask next. Then sue the shit out of them and let the world know - folks will vote with their pocketbooks and that, in and of itself, would make insurance companies live up to their contractual obligations. That's what government should really be about, having a system which FORCES participants in a contract to live up to their obligations.

You know, if you want an example of what a relatively free market industry looks like - you're utilizing it now. (I'm talking about the internet)... That is, until the government finds a way to regulate it, shut it down and tax it heavily. And I think they're working on that right now. :-)

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 3:25PM
R. Stanton Scott says:

TarrantLibertyGuy

You complained that you pay too much in taxes. I suggested that in a complex society, this is the cost of the collective action you say you support, not that we disagree on the responsibilities of government.

If particular types of collective action disturb you--e.g., bloated military establishment, paying pensions to poor sick people--you should support candidates that would change these policies, or run for office yourself on such a platform.

But the general protest that government is too big, and borrows too much money, won't get these changes made. The causal arrow isn't "government does stupid stuff because it's too big," it's "government is too big because it does stupid stuff." Attacking the high cost only treats the symptom.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 3:34PM
roy edroso says:

We reviewed the tape and Victor claimed a 34 minute bite, rather than 45 minutes. It's been corrected in the post. Thanks to all our commenters for the crowdsourcing!

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 3:46PM
TeabaggerDunkForce1 says:

To Tarrant, Tominate, trist et ilk;

I don't know anybody who wants bigger government but it's not too much to expect a competent government, a more efficient government and a less wasteful government.

Government that can "promote the general welfare," like it says right in our Constitution, is what I expect and demand. But Republicans, neocons and your assorted wingnuts don't really believe in government and it shows in the way they screw everything up whenever they get themselves elected into our government.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 4:00PM
TarrantLibertyGuy says:

R. Stanton...
Yes - at 61% total taxes, I do pay too much for the services I - and others - get for that type of investment. Per the corrected time statement of 34 minutes, I think that the shrink and I are about taxed equally! Actually, he may be doing better!! Ouch!

If this is a complex society who needs a complex solution, I don't think that creating a large central repository of power/taxing authority/doling out benefits via government is enough to handle it effectively.

I believe the causality goes both ways - government does dumb stuff (waste money and abuse power) because it not only is big, but knows it can continue to increase it's size should it so desire. And you know something, it always seems to desire it!

Now, I hope that statement of 'not paying poor sick people' wasn't an attempt at vilifying me, because anyone who's paid into the system with the promises of 'paying you when you're poor and/or sick' - should get it.

The reason I am libertarian is that I believe that the poor and sick need to get help in the quickest more effective way possible!! I think that there are extremely viable alternatives to the current systems - and surprise surprise - they tend to include free market solutions, which tend to be enormously more efficient and effective at getting help to those who need it most. Something to ponder - the Gates Foundation, which many credible health care and education experts claim is more impactful than the WHO and US Dept of Education. There's more like this, but that's pretty high profile.

I've considered running for office, but the only thing that is appealing to me is US Congress as it pays enough to make up for my lost salary. But our current Rep is extremely entrenched. I pay too much in taxes to have enough of a stockpile of cash money to take any of the other lower paying state/local political jobs and still be honest! And I don't donate enough to get appointed to a high paying post! ;-)

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 4:08PM
Anonymous says:

athiest:
"These "Tea Baggers" appear to absolutely dead set agains any kind of realistic engagement with the problems of our society."

If that is the case, and you are trying to give people a "chance to survive", doesn't the debate deserve better than Congressional Bills that are given less than 6 or 8 hours of review or that nobody gets a chance to read? Amendments that are added at 3 in the morning?

Obama says he wants to hear everyone's ideas and take the best. Sounds reasonable. But then, he lets Nancy and Harry ram through anything they want. Nancy and Harry are not immune from corruption, corporate or lobbyist influence etc. Why should their initiatives not be examined to be sure they have a chance to accomplish their stated goals? Contrary to your point, "Teabaggers" object to the lack of engagement and ramrodding of shoddy hyper-expensive legislation that seizes investment capital from a market that can produce jobs and leaves us and our kids with the bill.

In the movie, Big Fat Greek Wedding, the father of the bride's solution to everything, including facial blemishes was to "put some Windex on it". Windex is a caustic ammonia based cleaner and should not be used in this manner. Taxes can be abused in the same manner and raising them doesn't necessarily result in more captured revenue, which is what you really need in order to institute the necessary social programs to make everyone's life better.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 4:14PM
atheist says:
I've considered running for office, but the only thing that is appealing to me is US Congress as it pays enough to make up for my lost salary. But our current Rep is extremely entrenched. I pay too much in taxes to have enough of a stockpile of cash money to take any of the other lower paying state/local political jobs and still be honest! And I don't donate enough to get appointed to a high paying post! ;-)

I think that if a libertarian ever had an attainable goal, or a realistic assessment of their situation, the universe would implode.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 4:17PM
atheist says:
Obama says he wants to hear everyone's ideas and take the best. Sounds reasonable. But then, he lets Nancy and Harry ram through anything they want. Nancy and Harry are not immune from corruption, corporate or lobbyist influence etc. Why should their initiatives not be examined to be sure they have a chance to accomplish their stated goals?

If you want to make a realistic and comprehensive examiniation of the legislation that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have supported then go right ahead!

The "Tea Baggers" don't want to examine policy, they just want the benefits of civilization without having to pay for them. They will never have that. TANSTAAFL.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 4:30PM
Anonymous says:

"The "Tea Baggers" don't want to examine policy, they just want the benefits of civilization without having to pay for them. They will never have that. TANSTAAFL."

Right. So let's let Bernie Madoff out of jail, because he obviously designed the scheme that our government is using to finance our new civilization.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 5:53PM
Anonymous says:

I think that there are extremely viable alternatives to the current systems - and surprise surprise - they tend to include free market solutions, which tend to be enormously more efficient and effective at getting help to those who need it most.

The claim that private enterprise is "enormously more efficient" than government is complete nonsense.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 5:54PM
Oris says:

The best that I can say about your liberal piece of "news writing" is that at least you didn't call them "racist tea baggers". Maybe there is hope for you guys yet.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 5:59PM
atheist says:

Oris:

Many of them sound pretty racist too.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 6:31PM
atheist says:
Right. So let's let Bernie Madoff out of jail, because he obviously designed the scheme that our government is using to finance our new civilization.

I think you're trying to say all government is a fraud or something like that. If you want to believe that, be my guest.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 6:34PM
roy edroso says:

The best that I can say about your liberal piece of "news writing" is that at least you didn't call them "racist tea baggers". Maybe there is hope for you guys yet.

You're welcome. Don't forget to bookmark!

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:28PM
booty says:

"Calvin peeing on the Obama logo"

I had no idea such a thing existed. Were it not for Mr. Edroso's wonderful article, I'd still not know. A quick search of Google Images brings up Calvin relieving himself upon Obama's head. See http://www.visittex.com/political/obama.jpg

Thanks, Roy!

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:43PM
TarrantLibertyGuy says:

Anon and Atheist,

Ever heard of Strawman and ad hominem arguments? You're guilty of them - and basically is the intellectual equivalent of saying 'nanny nanny poo poo!' and sticking out your tongue when others are trying to engage you in a substantive argument.

And to TeabaggerDunkForce1... I tend to agree with you. Republicans are generally no better than Democrats.

And to Atheist... I think Anon was being sarcastic with his Madoff statement. But I think his earlier statement that Teabaggers don't want to examine policy but rely on the benefits, is wrong on a couple of different levels. The folks at these events, usually, are the types who go over various bills going through congress with fine tooth combs. They know the corporate donors and can see payoff policy a mile away. But, Teabagger Dunkforce1, we're of the opinion that these socialist redistributionalist, bailout policies and regressive taxes like the Cap and Trade Bill are not of the 'general welfare' variety. Nor is floating our huge military industrial complex.

Now, allow me a little ad hominem... Bernie Madoff, who you mentioned, was a Democrat. Not that that makes him any better than, say Ken Lay another Ponzi schemer who was a committed Republican.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:50PM
ignobility says:

"I'm here to tell you that you won't see bloated bureaucracy and the wasting of your money when you donate to us."

You won't see me or your money again, either.

And, Jay B. at 1:49, that says it all, beautifully, as usual.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:51PM
synykyl says:

... So let's let Bernie Madoff out of jail ...

You say that sarcastically, but very few enterprises are more "efficient" than Bernie's was. He's the ultimate Randian, i.e. a ruthless crook.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 7:52PM
gayteabagger says:

This BETTER not interfere with MY teabagging parties! See my twitter for MORE.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:08PM
Mr.Ponzi says:

Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme ripped off thousands to the tune of about $65 billion. I'm a glad he was convicted. But now who is going to go after the largest ponzi scheme of them all - SOCIAL SECURITY?

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:19PM
Leeds man says:

Something missing from your comment, Mr. Ponzi.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:45PM
The Dark Avenger says:
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors rather than from any actual profit earned. The Ponzi scheme usually offers returns that other investments cannot guarantee in order to entice new investors, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises and pays requires an ever-increasing flow of money from investors in order to keep the scheme going.

Social security is a social insurance program.

Look up what that is and get back to us.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 9:55PM
synykyl says:

... Social security is a social insurance program ...

And a *very* well run one at that.

Contrary to what you tea baggers say, it's a sterling example of what governments can, and should, do.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 10:22PM
roy edroso says:

I had no idea such a thing existed. Were it not for Mr. Edroso's wonderful article, I'd still not know... Thanks, Roy!

Crowdsourcing comes through once again! Tell them where you found out about it. We may try and sell them an ad.

Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 11:27PM
M M says:

America is not the America of 50 or even 20 years ago..
And for your 61% you get national defense (Endless Wars and Police Actions), police forces (Don't need them, Second Amendment), clean running water (Can't swim in the river in front of this house, some weird flesh fungus and hepatitis A) and flush toilets (uh, no) (because government mandates them, (but the cops won't even come into some neighborhoods..they take reports over the phone.), roads without potholes (ROFLMAO) people making sure your food is safe (except for E Coli from Mexico), a guy who puts out the fire destroying your house (That's Me), parks to go camping in (Have you seen the fees?), schools (no sane person would subject a child to public school..Homeschool), the internet (Is that Free from the government to taxpayers? Anyway, the internet is useful to answer BS like this article,what use otherwise?) and all manner of other things that you would have to do, make, or invent yourself (Not a problem) if we did not act collectively (Katrina?)--and pay for it. (Pay and Obey, the Obama Way!)

In California..potholes in the road? public schools? That's where your tax dollars go..86 cents of every federal dollar spent on roads in Califoria is for "administration" which is code word for looting the treasury.
Change you can believe in..spare change that is..brother, can you spare a dime?

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 12:28AM
Anonymous says:

1. I found it ironic you critique the conservative agenda while you have a liberal agenda, both are agendas and are just the flip side of the same coin. here's a new one, try rationality.

2. Made up taxes???? you do know the mayor just raised real estate taxes right? or that the DEP just raised the homeowners water bill around 12% (tax,, govt utility co increase whats the diff??) You do know the new climate bill will raise our utility rates?????

3. You totally forgot to mention anything about the deficit our Pres is going to increase drastically a main point of contention with the demonstrators..... convenient you should leave it out no?

Get off it already, no Obama is not the messiah, he sucks just liked bush sucked, ok maybe worse than Bush....you get my point both are no jefferson!.....wait I think you would hate Jefferson more than anyone!

Hey it can be my new curse word to all nonthinking blind govt followers of Mr Obama

JEFFERSON TO YOU and individual/state rights for all!

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 1:35AM
thinker says:

1. I found it ironic you critique the conservative agenda while you have a liberal agenda, both are agendas and are just the flip side of the same coin. here's a new one, try rationality.

2. Made up taxes???? you do know the mayor just raised real estate taxes right? or that the DEP just raised the homeowners water bill around 12% (tax,, govt utility co increase whats the diff??) You do know the new climate bill will raise our utility rates?????

3. You totally forgot to mention anything about the deficit our Pres is going to increase drastically a main point of contention with the demonstrators..... convenient you should leave it out no?

Get off it already, no Obama is not the messiah, he sucks just liked bush sucked, ok maybe worse than Bush....you get my point both are no jefferson!.....wait I think you would hate Jefferson more than anyone!

Hey it can be my new curse word to all nonthinking blind govt followers of Mr Obama

JEFFERSON TO YOU and individual/state rights for all!

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 1:37AM
Al says:

Imaginarry increase in tax rates?????

WHER HAVE YOU BEEN??

Ok this proves one of 5 things about the writers and peopel behind this site....

1. You are a Democratic politician and or part of the Obama administration ... IN WHICH CASE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY TAXES UNTILL GET AUDITED OR YOU APPLY FOR JOB WITH THE ADMIN!!!

2. You make entertainer style income, so that no matter what the tax rate... YOU WOULD STILL BE A MILLIONARE!!

3. You are on welfare and do not pay taxes

4. You are so igorant and partisan that you fail to see what is right before your eyes

5. You are being paid by the COMMUNIST far left like ACORN OR THE SEIU!!!!

DING DING DING DING.... I think we have a winner!!!!!

COULD IT BE NUMBER 5 ladies and gentlemen...

Perhaps you are being funded by stimuls money funneled through so many different channels it is hard to trace?


I mean to even suggest that WE THE PEOPLE have not seen increases in our taxes already under Obama is A BLATANT LIE...
For the majority of WORKING CONTRIBUITNG AMERICANS!! Otherwise konw as the working poor and middle class...

Hey you notice the increase in tax on cigaretts??

How about the cost of fuel going up due to Obama policy??

How about the STATE SALES TAX?? that is poised to be raised IN NEARLY EVERY STATE??

16% in PA or how about the proposed 50%%%% in Obamas home state of Illionois???

NOW THATS CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!!!

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 2:24AM
Anonymous says:

To the T L Guy I don't expect to see any of my (ha!) investment into SS. I've paid many hundreds of thousands and I'm pretty confident, I won't see much if any of that.The cap on the amount you can put into Social Security is only recently over $100,000 and for you to have paid many hundreds of thousands means you've been working for decades. I've been at the cap for over 20 years as an employee and haven't paid "many hundreds of thousands."
Just saying.
And, you only think you won't see any of it because you read lies. Try the Social Security Trustees Report and see that you're wrong

Currently, we have an unfunded gap of between 34 and 63 TRILLION dollars in Social Security and Medicare requirements.
I have no idea where you get those numbers although GDP last year was $13 trillion and if you use the 2083 horizon (75 years) with reasonable growth figures, you have an economy worth over $1,000 TRILLION of which your scary 'cause it's in caps figures look like between 3.4% and 6.3% of GDP. Not so scary.
Now, if you follow the logic of the SS/Medicare Trustees who think "As we reported last year, Medicare's financial difficulties come sooner—and are much more severe—than those confronting Social Security" maybe you can grasp why reforming health care is more important than fixing a program that doesn't need to be fixed.

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 2:27AM
atheist says:
But, Teabagger Dunkforce1, we're of the opinion that these socialist redistributionalist, bailout policies and regressive taxes like the Cap and Trade Bill are not of the 'general welfare' variety.

TarrantLibertyGuy, this just seems incoherent to me. How can taxes be both "socialist redistributionist" and also "regressive"? Regressive taxes are taxes that affect the poor proportionally more than the rich. Socialist redistributionist taxes, if they had existed in the USA, would proportionally take more money from the rich. It can't be both.

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 4:54AM
Dennis says:

Hey Roy, when is your novel coming out? Or are you just going to write a dull blog for the rest of your life?

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 8:57AM
ifthethunderdontgetya says:
5. You are being paid by the COMMUNIST far left like ACORN OR THE SEIU!!!!

DING DING DING DING.... I think we have a winner!!!!!

Oh Noes, I haz been found outted!
~

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 11:39AM
Jennifer says:

What we have here, folks, is an unbridgeable gap in what two groups of people think the ultimate goal and mission of democratic government should be.

On the one side, we have the teabaggers, who can claim all they want that they're protesting against taxes that haven't yet been raised and etc, but in reality are just upset that they lost. They are staunch supporters of the notion that the highest ideal of democratic government should be to allow a few to own everything, and for everyone else to be at their mercy and scrape along as best they can.

True, they don't realize this is what they support, so taken in they have been by 30 years of Republican blathering about how taxes are too high...they simply have never realized that it's not their taxes that Republicans have ever been concerned about. They could figure this out relatively easily by just studying a table of historic tax rates, which would quickly correct their notion that "Reagan cut my taxes". No, he didn't. In fact, he raised them - not only by taking away ordinary people's and small businessmen's tax deductions for interest, business meals, medical expenses, etc (or raising them to the point that you'd have to go bankrupt to ever claim them) - but also by raising their payroll taxes. Every tax or economic policy supported by Republicans in the past 30 years has had one goal only - to further concentrate wealth into the hands of a few.

And so, they truly don't even understand what it is they support. They say they support "freedom" when in fact they support serfdom. And so it comes as a surprise to them that there are others who think they're crazy, because they don't realize that others have figured out that it's batshit insane to promote unimaginable wealth and ease for the few at the expense of the many as the highest value of democratic government - a system which in theory is supposed to represent the interests of ALL the people, not just the wealthiest 5%.

Nuts. Just nuts.

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 12:20PM
roy edroso says:

Hey Roy, when is your novel coming out? Or are you just going to write a dull blog for the rest of your life?

Thinking about going into interpretive dance. You have to admit the internet seems pretty played out.

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 1:27PM
ignatov says:

M M says: "Change you can believe in..spare change that is..brother, can you spare a dime?"

Megan McArdle? Is that you?

Posted On: Friday, Jul. 3 2009 @ 1:30PM
Mark says:

It's amusing watching you leftist moonbats continue to blame Bush for everything seven months into the reign of King Barry.


Barry's poll numbers are dropping like a stone, opposition to socialized medicine and cap and trade is growing exponentially despite the mainstream medias attempts to hide this fact, unemployment is climbing, and inflation is just around the corner.

Colin Powell is calling Barry to the carpet on his incompetence and Helen Thomas said the Barry administrations manipulation of the media is worse than Nixon.

Your posts on this and every other site are meaningless.

Come 2010 the GOP is going to see major pickups in both houses of Congress. There's nothing you can do about it either.

Barry the messiah is destined to go down in flames and it's already started.

Posted On: Saturday, Jul. 4 2009 @ 8:29AM
atheist says:
Your posts on this and every other site are meaningless.

Come 2010 the GOP is going to see major pickups in both houses of Congress. There's nothing you can do about it either.

Barry the messiah is destined to go down in flames and it's already started.

If this is true, then congratulations. You will show the liberals who is boss, and no-one will doubt your power again.

Posted On: Saturday, Jul. 4 2009 @ 10:42AM
brad says:

I was thinking more likely the malkin thing for M M, ignatov. Too little narcissism in the comment, and no mention of taxes on Kindles.

Posted On: Saturday, Jul. 4 2009 @ 5:36PM
brad says:

But remember, Mark, 9/11 was Clinton's fault.
BTW, why did you stop posting as Gary Ruppert on S,N!? We miss your electoral predictions.

Oh, and ignatov, more likely M M is the Malkin thing. There was no mention of taxes on Kindles, or "the McArdle household". Megan only has one topic; herself.

Posted On: Saturday, Jul. 4 2009 @ 5:41PM
brad says:

Damn this delayed posting effect.

Posted On: Saturday, Jul. 4 2009 @ 5:43PM
Mike says:

"Thinking about going into interpretive dance. You have to admit the internet seems pretty played out."

Ha, good one. If your dancing is anything like your music, I would hit the unemployment line right away.

Posted On: Sunday, Jul. 5 2009 @ 2:00AM
Geoff says:

Why is it so hard for Americans to understand that their country is basically broke? You may have a new president, but he is fundamentally powerless. You need to comprehend that the great American empire is scaling back and you have to start living within your means. Higher taxes are inevitable - do you think taxes should go down???? Stand by for the collapse of the greenback and the wholesale sell-off of assets across the country.

"The American people are almost too stupid to be governed " - Bill Maher.

He doesn't have to be right.

Posted On: Sunday, Jul. 5 2009 @ 6:35AM
Pax says:

The TEA Party "movement" may have a little more credibility if they had held their first event during the GWB Administration's 1st 6 years, when the Republican Congress was spending money like drunken sailors on shoreleave. Most, if not all, of the problems the AFA (umbrella organization of TEA)mentions either were started or greatly exacerbated by the George W. Bush administration. The TEA parties when seen this way are a not-so-well disguised attempt to arouse public passions against Obama--for problems that he inherited from Bush. The 4th of July is a time to celebrate our freedom and way of life, not really a time to disingenuously protest the leadership of our Commander in Chief.

Posted On: Sunday, Jul. 5 2009 @ 12:34PM
gerri says:

government knows best. period. they know what we need and when we need it.

they didn't have time to read the friggin deal bec they didn't have to. did not have to! it's what's best for everyone and it had to be passed immediately so our president could sign it 4 days later...in colorado-and spend the bulk of it in september. just when we need it most.

we all know bush left us a huge deficit. which is why obama has to quadruple that. he has to be bigger and better than bush.

Posted On: Sunday, Jul. 5 2009 @ 6:43PM
gerri says:

government knows best. period. they know what we need and when we need it.

they didn't have time to read the friggin bill bec they didn't have to. did not have to! it's what's best for everyone and it had to be passed immediately so our president could sign it 4 days later...in colorado-and spend the bulk of it in september. just when we need it most.

we all know bush left us a huge deficit. which is why obama has to quadruple that. he has to be bigger and better than bush.

Posted On: Sunday, Jul. 5 2009 @ 6:45PM
Frank says:

The private sector isn't inherently more efficient than government, at least not in my experience. Bureaucracy is bureaucracy, and anyone who's had to deal with insurance will agree with me on my main point.

If some of the teabaggers had their way, the country would look like a mixture of Somalia (minus black people of course) and OCP-controlled Detroit from Robocop.

Posted On: Monday, Jul. 6 2009 @ 1:28PM
Andrew Panken says:

Well, it's fine to say Bush caused out of control deficits, which is true but it didn't start with Bush either. The problem with that argument is, yes Bush increased the budget greatly with Congressional approval, including Obama. Now, under Obama, since Bush increased the deficit greatly, that means we need Obama to triple the deficit to fix Bush's deficit? Now, someone please explain to me the logic of this argument, very carefully, so I can follow it, please. I'm a little slow to catch on to obvious truths, so go into detail, so I can follow your arguments. By the way, I'm a libertarian GOP person, so I never voted for President Bush in the first place. Libertarians and Constitutionalists strongly objected to what Bush did at home and abroad. Of course, the left wing media loves to ignore anyone but liberals who objected to the Bush policies. I wonder why they do that?

Posted On: Monday, Jul. 13 2009 @ 4:54PM

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