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Follow-up

"Nice Guy Must Die" -- Video of George Sodini Getting Dating Advice

By Tony Ortega, Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 10:06AM
Comments (39)
Categories: Featured

Yesterday, we told you that George Sodini, the pathetic piece of shit who walked into a Pittsburgh gym and opened fire on a classroom of women, killing three and then himself, was a student of How to Date Young Women guru R. Don Steele.

Steele's book is prominently displayed on Sodini's coffee table in a video tour of his house that Sodini left on the web. But we also noted that in a video of a Steele seminar, Sodini is clearly visible.

Soon after we wrote that, Steele took down the video, which had been on his YouTube channel, "Steelballs." (He calls the company that prints his books Steel Balls Press.)

Well, we managed to nab a copy of that seminar video before Steele took it down, and we've excerpted some key moments for you to see (above). Here's what you'll see...

A title tells us that this is part one from Steele's "The Right Attitude" seminar. We can't tell from the tape if this was a class that Steele held in the Pittsburgh area or whether Sodini traveled somewhere to take it, but soon after the title disappears, the camera pans to take in some of the guys in attendance and right away we can see Sodini.

He's the one in a white shirt, and appears to be the only guy not wearing a suit jacket.

We then cut to later in the tape, when Sodini is introducing himself to a couple of women. It's hard to tell, but on the original it's a little clearer that he's saying, "Hi, I'm George from Pittsburgh." (Steele hires the women to give the men practice interacting and using his techniques.)

Then, finally, we see Steele himself writing the words "Nice Guy Must Die" on a whiteboard: "I would say that's the problem with most of the guys in the room. That you're too nice. Women don't like that. They don't respect it. It's about as arousing as a booger."

For a long, in-depth piece about Steele's background and his classes, as well as the larger industry of seminars for men taught by "experts" who claim they can make them more effective seducers, go here and scroll down to our 2000 story, "Battling Babe-Hounds."

Yes, for the most part, these dating gurus are reprehensible, and their acolytes sound like predatory creeps of the worst sort, who, as we pointed out in our long feature story, "seem to regard women as little more than easily bamboozled sperm receptacles."

So it doesn't surprise us that in this morning's New York Post, Steele is characterized as a "slimy sex guru" who was Sodini's inspiration. No doubt the entire get-laid industry will come under attack in the wake of the Sodini mass murder. And we certainly won't shed a tear for the hypnotizers and "speed seducers" and their macho misogynist mantras. Go here for an excellent first step in that direction by a Jezebel writer.

But we'll offer this one, small caveat: Steele, while he is slimy in many ways, was not encouraging his students to target young women for sex and then abandonment. His aim has always been to help men find girlfriends and even wives. Maybe that's not much comfort after one of his students pulled a Sodini. But knowing Steele as well as we did back in 2000, we're pretty confident that the last thing he wanted was for one of his students to go postal and take his advice, 'Nice Guy Must Die,' so literally. It's little wonder he's not answering his phone. (But we're going to keep trying. Pick up, Don.)
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  • George Sodini
  • Pittsburgh
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Comments (39)

Reef215 says:

so i want to ask the question? is it right that women DONT like NICE guys?

because its the natural good in us that wants us to treat women nice and george had such a hard time going back on it that he figured its best if he just destroyed something (or someone) rather than destroy his inability to kill the "nice guy in him"

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 12:46PM
Someguy says:

Just read his diary. The guy hadn't had sex for 20 years, and he was more than willing to. And yet he had all of these women telling him what a "nice guy" he was?

Okay ladies, fess up. Which one of you withheld the poon from the "nice guy", and what could this guy have done to actually get it? It's in the interest of domestic security to let the Internet know.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 1:01PM
Bill says:

Anyone who's honest knows there is some (some) truth to the notion that being a prick or a bad boy gets the gals. Look at how so many (not all) of the young gals out there go absolutely bonkers over the hiphop gangbanger types.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 1:08PM
Delilah says:

I'm a thirty year old woman who honestly doesn't like nice-guys but I chalk that up to the fact that I'm not a nice-girl and if I tried to date an actual nice guy I'd obliterate him. I need someone assertive enough to have his own opinions and who actually enjoys discourse outside of coddling. Also, remember women tend to look for their fathers, and trufax: most dads are jerks.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 1:23PM
Robert says:

SOME women like "bad boys."
SOME OTHER women like "nice guys."
SOME OTHER OTHER women like whatever it is they like.

The real "secret" to picking up women is to treat them like people -- not chattel to be "picked up."

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 1:26PM
les says:

What is meant by the word "nice"?

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 1:56PM
Bill says:

Dear Delilah:

Thanks for the honesty.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 2:03PM
AS says:

By the way, Bill, don't engage in the "women only like jerks or bad boys" debate. If you approach dating like that, you will likely fail over and over again. Everyone likes different things, but no one, except those with a history of witnessing abuse or being abused, likes to be treated like shit. The "bad boy" schtick is the male version of what women do when they are being coy. It is nothing more than playing hard to get. If you go around acting like a prick because you think that's what women like when it is not in your nature, you are a poseur who is being gratuitously mean so you can get laid. Anyone who behaves like that is decidedly not a nice person, rather a desperate asshole that was waiting to happen. Don't be that guy.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 4:54PM
Bill says:

Dear AS,

Who said I was approaching dating like that? I'm merely pointing out what anyone with their eyes open can realize: many many women go for the 'bad boy' type. So many women have been mistreated in childhood that they seem attracted to the guys who act jerky toward them. Pretty sad if you ask me.
Also, sitcoms, dramas and especially commercials love to portray typical middle class nice guys as nerds and ignoramuses, this subconsciously infects the psyche of women (and men) and they take it into the dating arena.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 5:42PM
AS says:

I am sorry if I leaped to a conclusion about you Bill. And, you are right, sitcoms, dramas, and commercials to portray middle class nice guys as nerds. But those are fiction and no one should seek a mate based on that, be they the seeker or the sought. Keep in mind, though, that those same media outlets idealize young, impossibly pretty white, women as the dating ideal. Indeed, Sodini was chasing that ideal created by the media. Women are considered "old" after 35 in Hollywood and all but the most talented find work. So, women are on the business end of media distortion too, and receive arguably worse treatment.


I honestly do not know anyone who says she is seeking a bad boy. I don't know anyone who says, "I met this great guy last night! Guess what!?! He's a jerk! I'm so happy!" I do know women who stay in bad relationships, but they were lured by men who seemed nice at first and let the jerk out later.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 6:05PM
k. bishop says:

R. Don Steele - kind of reminds me of one of those old farts who hugs too long. He emphasizes younger women (that would be a child in comparison) and describes women over 35 as "bitter" because he is unable to attract adult women. Younger women don't know yet what slime these guys are and grown women do. It is sort of sad and pathetic.

I wasn't aware, either, that "nice" equates to "weak." Nor do I think that women can be summed up as either/or with the bad guys or good guys. What Steele is doing is a disgrace to the field of psychology. Shrinks do not advocate sexism anymore than a pulmonologist would support smoking. Shame we can't take his degrees away for sheer stupidity.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 6:43PM
Quenby Wilcox says:

How many more violent people must kill others or themselves before people start realizing that "spare the rod, spoil the child" antiquated parenting techniques and domestic psychological abuse are producing these violent members of our societies. And, the only things that govts. are doing is passing a bunch of politically correct rhetoric and unapplicable legislation on domestic violence with corrupt and incomptent judicial entities thumbing their nose at the whole thing.

If you wish some real solutions pls. visit http://stopthetortureandgenocide.blogspot.com/ and copy, sign and send the letters to your Reps in Washington and to those whom they are addressed. Also, ask your friends to do the same. I myself am in an international domestic abuse divorce/custody battle and have been researching this prob. for over a year and my case is NOT unique. You can google my name, Quenby Wilcox, for more information about it.

THESE VIOLENT PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING AWAY UNTIL WE STOP CREATING AND RECREATING THEM.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 6:54PM
Lori Koonce says:

I like bad boys for a quick hook up, but if you are talking LTR (long term relationship) give me a guy with the following atributes:

1. A job: That shows me that he's got the where with all to go out and do something productive with himself.

2. A sense of self: Means he's taken the time to get to know who he is and what he wants.

3. The Guts to show emotion: That is a sign of strength in my book. He's not worried about what anyone is going to think about him.

The rest is icing on a cake.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 7:44PM
cc says:

It is not right that girls dice nice guys. I did and i admit it before I got wise. I think it is because we are told to marry a nice guy but then equally here nice guys cannot provide or finish last. So many men are abusive and so when we see a nice guy many women think it could be a con job. We must work on teaching them how to spot a con man over a decent guy.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 8:50PM
mk says:

"Delilah says: Also, remember women tend to look for their fathers, and trufax: most dads are jerks."

...How come a woman can say that on a forum and get thanked, but if a man says 'most mothers are bitches' you could get put away?

Look this crazy guy obviously had many problems in his life, but blaming a dating guru is not correct. Dating gurus can work positively for sure....and he's right: most women dont go for nice guys. its no secret

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 10:47PM
Luek says:

Has anyone ever entertained the thought that maybe the problem is that women in general are the real jerks? It is still possible to find a young female (without tattoos or tramp stamps) who is not psycho in some way but they are few and far between. Most are looking for a lifelong meal ticket and ATM machine when it comes to men.

Posted On: Saturday, Aug. 8 2009 @ 2:01AM
Anon says:

Why don't you call Neil Strauss, former Village Voice reporter turned seduction guru, for an interview?

Posted On: Saturday, Aug. 8 2009 @ 12:56PM
Normal dude says:

Walk into any bookstore and wander into the "self-help" section. You'll see all kinds of titles by "dating gurus". Titles like "The Rules"; "Make Every Man Want You"; "Men Are Like Fish", and the list goes on and on. Yet you'll never hear a negative comment about these authors who teach women how to manipulate men into relationships.

So the Village Voice took an hour seminar (assuming the length, coulda been more or less) and edited 11 seconds of it and declared Steele to be a sleezy creep. Nice journalistic integrity!

The fact of the matter is these so-called gurus DO help men overcome shyness and years of self-defeating habits ingrained into them over years.

As to the question of "Nice Guy", women all know the "Nice Guy". He's the guy that puts women on pedestals. The guy that always agrees with the women in his life. He's considerate to the point of creepiness. He seems to have no opinions of his own. He's so concerned with making people like him, that he fears to ever truly express himself.

Women LOVE the nice guy. Like a brother. The nice guy is the woman's best (male) friend. But never her lover. He's the guy she complains to when her boyfriend dumps her. She whines to the nice guy about how there's no guys like him and then dates the "bad boy", and complains to her NG friend what jerk the boyfriend is. Of course, secretly, the NG wants to date (read: sleep with) the woman. Underneath his "nice" facade usually lurks a man full of resent and bitterness. Sodini was a nice guy. Fortunately, most nice guys never go on murderous rampages, but they suffer in silence always wondering "why don't women like nice guys."

Someone here posted what she wants from a guy. She listed three things:
"1. A job: That shows me that he's got the where with all to go out and do something productive with himself.

2. A sense of self: Means he's taken the time to get to know who he is and what he wants.

3. The Guts to show emotion: That is a sign of strength in my book. He's not worried about what anyone is going to think about him."

Nice Guys don't have Nos. 2 or 3. And the vast majority hate the jobs they have, but don't have the courage to leave.

What Steele means by "Nice Guy must die" is that men need to be men. They need to have their own lives (separate and apart from the women in their lives); they must respect themselves and not worry so much about what others think about them. HE DOES NOT suggest that men treat women disrespectfully, or be a-holes, or lie.

I've read his book Date young women and there's a lot of truth in it. Many women over 35 are bitter, as are many men. (Divorce'll do that) But the advice he gives in his book is universally sound advice. It's certainly no more demeaning or offensive to women as the multitude of books that proffer advice to women on how to find a husband.

Posted On: Saturday, Aug. 8 2009 @ 6:37PM
indiethink says:

Great comments, especially from Reef, mk, Luek and Normal Dude. But one area where I would disagree with Normal Dude is the second paragraph of his post. In fact, I felt that the author of the article made it clear that he didn't view Steele as the sleazy creep he's being made out to be.

Posted On: Saturday, Aug. 8 2009 @ 9:56PM
Heather Noble says:

Um, this is gross. If I meet a man who approaches me with these suppositions (nice guys must die), I'd puke. Who is this prick Steele, yeah, i bet he's got a winner of a girlfriend (no self esteem), as do the rest of the attendees. It's so disrespectful, and it appeals to men who have ISSUES, just like our LA Fitness creep.

Steele does, indeed, appear to be a creep, and his incredibly intellectual seminars perpetuate the myth that women are commodities to be picked up, exchanged and dispensed with at will. It's like those Romance tours to Eastern Europe. Yuck.

Luek: not everybody is looking for a meal ticket. Why are all you guys looking for an 18 year old porn star? Maybe you should leave New York; there are a lot of nice women I've met everywhere who have a lot to offer...if you are looking for something more, it shouldn't be hard to find considering that so few men are. Any man who is single and halfway decent should have no trouble unless, like this guy, you are frustrated that your attempts to seduce the supermodel neurosurgeon cum penthouse forum 'model' have failed. Awwwwwww. Shuckipoo. I'm sure it's what you dudes really 'deserve' and are 'entitled' to. Listen to yourself!.

And Bill: once they've had their fill of being some dude's doormat, even the hoes (who like gangbanger types) eventually grow up...sometime it takes a couple of exes in jail and a couple of kids from different fathers who don't cough up the dough, but the pole dancing, gangster dating hotties with tramp stamps even grow up. I would even say they grow up faster than most men.

Trick is: aim for a mature woman, not some kid right out of junior high. You want a real woman, you need to assess your own values, too.


Posted On: Saturday, Aug. 8 2009 @ 11:08PM
anon says:

I'm sure "Girls Gone Wild girls" are REALLY into NICE guys.

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 1:45AM
Bobby Kennedy says:

I think the reason the nice guy comes in last is because of a lack of confidence and forwardness. Women don't want a guy with no confidence or someone that isn't assertive around them. They are looking for guys that can make them feel like they're safe and nice guys don't make you feel safe. housing grants

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 9:53AM
Anonymous says:

Hey Bobby Kennedy -- I don't think all nice guys lack confidence and forwardness. Maybe it depends on what the definition of "nice" is, as a previous poster mentioned. Also, as for feeling safe, in this age of "equality" why is it still a man's responsibility to make a woman feel safe? Personally, I don't feel safe around many of these young women out here today. I don't mean "safe" from a physical standpoint necessarily, just from the standpoint of being manipulated by females and a system that automatically sees them as "victims" all the time at the expense of men.

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 4:40PM
Stan says:

Dear Heather Noble:

Your bitterness is seeping through the monitor. "All you guys are looking for an 18 year old model" c'mon get some therapy lady. Sheesh.

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 4:46PM
Anonymous says:

To those men who hate women: please stop blaming women for your problems.

The reason you hate women is because you have unreasonable expectations. Do you expect women to think and act like men? Do you think you're fabulous but reality is that women perceive you as downright creepy? Regardless of the reason, it's YOU. And spewing hatred at women, or harming or killing them, is never going to fix you.

Thankfully, you are the minority. Most men are fine. Instead of attending seminars and reading books by other women-haters, why not latch on to a normal guy, observe, and learn.

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 7:31PM
Anonymous says:

What is this "nice guys come in last" nonsense? It's total BS! Unfortunately, this BS fuels the misogynists. Doesn't surprise me that they buy into this BS because their whole lives seem to be built on BS.

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 7:42PM
Anonymous says:

Btw, does anyone else find it odd that these guys who follow the advice of Steele and the other so-called "gurus" are precisely the ones spewing the most hatred toward women? Why is that? If they're so successful in their endeavors, you'd think they'd LIKE women. Instead, their hatred builds and builds. Looks like the gurus are full of sh*t after all.

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 8:03PM
Al PUA says:

Heres the deal.

Men don't want fat,angry, ugly, old women.
any man who consents to be seen with one of these oldies is a loser. Life is too short to dance with fat chicks.

Women want men who can excite and arouse them. These males are sometimes are rich, some are good looking, some are poor and ugly but can enchant with words and behaviors.

Nice guys are weak guys. They get pushed around and treated like crap. You can see them nightly seeking advice from Dr. Phil.

Women often marry weak nice men for money and security, and cheat on them with bad, seductive males like myself. Secretly she seeks a man who can arouse her the way a bad man can and a nice weak man never will.

I'm a bad man and nail other men's women regularly.

Don't blame the gurus, don't blame the players. Blame a silly system that teaches men the wrong sets of behaviors that are sure to make them losers.

Sodini was a bitter nice guy whose losing ways and self pitying took him past the brink of sanity. Oddly the targets of his hate, attractive young women were spared and instead he chose women he had no interest in, 40 something females became his targets. Maybe his real hatred was toward his mommy, not all women he didnt sleep with.

Al PUA


Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 8:16PM
Tisha says:

The video mentioned in this article is available full-length on the 'net, along with another. Just do a Google video search on "George Sodini workshop" and you'll find them both. They are bizarre, to say the least. Both are must-sees.

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 8:40PM
Anonymous says:

The guy is a 'piece of shit' because he committed the murders. Why is he pathetic though, because he had social problems as a result of dealing with judgmental people like yourself?

Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 9 2009 @ 11:17PM
publius says:

Steele claims to have been a licensed marriage and family counselor. A psychological professionally accredited person.

So why didn't he spot what a dangerous whack job Sodini was?

Maybe there are grounds for a wrongful death lawsuit or negligence lawsuit against Steele by the families of the victims. And the victims of the shooting that survived.

How about a class action lawsuit against Steele?

Someone should mention this to the victims and their families.

Publius

Posted On: Monday, Aug. 10 2009 @ 11:59AM
cc says:

I for one decided to take action. I am staring a lonely heart site and a site for like nice ppl.
This guy was highly educated, and not bad looking. this happens to more ppl than most want to admit. We are screwing our society by continually rewarding bad push behavior. Look at all the aholes who brought down our economy and who did 911. All aggressive pushy confident aholes who have hurt so many. There was a time when nice guys and girls won the day and the bad jerks went off to some little rathole. Now we put them on tv and the nice guys are made fun of. what happened to our society that we let this happen>

Posted On: Monday, Aug. 10 2009 @ 2:07PM
indiethink says:

Hey Al PUA, if Sodini did this because he has issues with his mother then I fear the woman who posted on here that all fathers are jerks. She's probably cleaning her gun right now.

Posted On: Monday, Aug. 10 2009 @ 2:14PM
anon says:

General rule: If you call yourself a "Nice Guy," you are probably not a nice guy.

If you call yourself a "Nice Guy" and in the next breath complain about not being able to get laid, you are DEFINITELY not a nice guy. You are a whiny, manipulative loser.

But if you insist on clinging to this silly myth, try this: Go around acting like a dickhole for a while, and see how far that gets you. When you continue to fail, take a good look inside yourself and decide then what needs fixing.

Posted On: Monday, Aug. 10 2009 @ 2:43PM
wth says:

Most of the men I know that have a hard time getting a date have one problem. They are self centered. Men: life is not some dreamy like fantasy where supermodel chicks fall at your feet. I think some men want the fantasy and not the reality and then on top of that they dont want to work for it.

They watch too many movies, tv shows, music videos, video games and think that is reality. Its not. If you look like a toad don't expect a Princess. Women don't want a "type". Tastes vary. Have good conversation, look and smell nice, have stability. you can be shy, there are plenty of sites online to help you find a woman. I am happily married to my best friend. We watch sports, play video games, hang out and talk. I'm 33.
I also dont get how men get married and then act like being around their wife is the worst thing ever and they wanna get away. Just dont get married! duh! my husband and I are best friend, wow! how about that?

Posted On: Tuesday, Aug. 11 2009 @ 11:20AM
John says:

George sodini is a hero! Men only become that misogynistic after hundreds of instances of psycological abuse from women. Women in this country have absolutely no respect for average men anymore, as they will raise you up by telling you things like "you are so funny", "I love your eyes", to raise you up, and when you take that as a sign of interest, they slam the door in your face to boost their ego. The only types of men women are spreading their legs for these days are tatoo covered, unemployed, sociopathic jerks. A bullet is far more than what these cunts deserve. RIP George Sodini, you did the country a big favor!

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 14 2009 @ 8:52AM
Columbine 101 says:

Like most stereotypes, the female stereotype embraced by George Sodini is perpetuated by a small minority of females who really do find hyper-masculine assholes attractive.

Google the names Ryan Tucker, Christian Peter, and Rocky Hoffschneider and ask yourself why any woman with a hint of self respect or self preservation would go anywhere near men who behave as they do.

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 14 2009 @ 6:40PM
CC says:

John you have it half right. BTW his brother just filed a will on friday. He left his quarter mill assets, he was an investment genius too, to his alma mater. But they may not take it and they victims may sue. He left it all to the place he felt safest and happiest, his college. He was a lost soul. He had no friends in school. A girl now has come foward and admitted he was teased in school and he had tried again to ask someone out on a date where he tanned, only to be turned donw. They thought he was joking. He apparently made jokes to try to ease his pain. He had downloaded another online book on talking to women and social shyness and the list is long. I found a pic of his sis being lead into the the fitness center, you can tell they have the same profile. She is older. He may have turned to his mom one last time for help and she probably ignored his pleas for help as did his sister probably. he notes they were close but not anymore. If Pitt was wise, they would take the money set up a site to help would be lost, desolate souls. RIP to the victims and to his family.

Posted On: Tuesday, Aug. 18 2009 @ 11:57AM
Lucila Kehm says:

Dr Phil is the bomb. He's very successful and i've learned a lot from his show.

Posted On: Monday, Feb. 8 2010 @ 11:05AM

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