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Stories

 

Live: The Roots Forget to Call Jay-Z

By Tom Breihan, Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 1:06AM
Comments (44)

roots_large060303.jpg
?uestlove should use his Def Jam money and buy a different T-shirt

It almost doesn't seem fair to compare any other live rap show to the Roots. If the whole live-rap-band thing was just a gimmick, they'd be terrible, just like every rapper who decides out of the blue to do shows with a live band ends up being terrible. But they approach the rap part of the show just as seriously as they approach the live-band part; they might let everyone in the band play solos, but they always come back to the beat. The live-band thing does give them a looseness that they wouldn't have otherwise; it lets them switch up styles and go on extended digressions into rock or funk or Afrobeat without making a big thing out of it. Black Thought isn't a particularly compelling rapper on record, all pristine breath-control and brow-furrowed formalism. But those qualities make him a great live performer; his voice is strong and precise, he doesn't need a hypeman to be heard, he never fucks up or forgets his lyrics or loses his place, and he knows when to shut up and let someone else take over. He's not a star, but he is a truly dependable worker-bee. Everyone in the band is a borderline virtuoso, which can lead to wanky showboating (I'd give Kamal $10 to ease up on the constant jazz-funk organ fills), but it can also lead to some jaw-dropping pyrotechnic shit. They've played together for well over a decade now, and they're all locked in enough to follow each other's cues, and they put on three-hour shows like it's nothing. All those virtues was on display at Radio City earlier tonight, and the show somehow still managed to disappoint. This is a rough town.

Here's the problem: you can't promise a huge mystery-guest extravaganza and then not deliver. A few months back, Jay-Z signed the Roots to Def Jam, and they've been hard at work on their supposed masterpiece Game Theory ever since; the half-decent first single dropped earlier this week. The group's two shows at Radio City Music Hall were touted as their big Def Jam coming-out party, the nights that ?uestlove would flex his Rolodex and bring the stars out of hiding like he did at Dave Chappelle's Block Party. The two nights were divided between rap (tonight) and R&B (tomorrow night), with Talib Kweli, Common, and Nas being the only preannounced guests for tonight. In this XXL interview, ?uestlove talks about the difficulties of cramming all the guests he was planning into the measly three-hour window that Radio City allowed. It's been fun trying to guess who might show up over the last couple of weeks: Kanye? Lupe? Rae and Ghost? Lauryn Hill? The big, huge question mark was Jay-Z. Jay signed the Roots and used them as his backing band on the Unplugged album and Fade to Black, and he would've been a big no-brainer for this show, but he didn't show up. Neither did Kanye or Lupe or Rae or Ghost or Lauryn Hill. The people who showed up were Talib Kweli and Common and Nas. And Big Daddy Kane, who was great but who wasn't really a shock. That was it for big guests; the only others were a couple of dudes who I didn't recognize who ran out and rapped two verses even though their mics were off. (Slum Village? You'd have to ask someone who cares about Slum Village.)

The guests themselves were mostly good, other than Kweli, who still can't ride a beat to save his life and who insisted on subbing in a weak-ass freestyle for his best verse ever. Nas came out first, as the band segued from that song on Phrenology that samples "Apache" into "Made You Look," which also samples "Apache" and which sounded badass. Nas only held the stage for about fifteen minutes, but that was enough time to do "It Ain't Hard to Tell" and "The World is Yours" and "If I Ruled the World" and leave swirls of dust spinning behind him. (In a charitable moment, he also called Black Thought "one of the most incredible lyricists in the game.") It was hard for any of the other guests to live up to that, but they tried. Kane absolutely burned through "Set It Off" and "Warm It Up, Kane," and he looked crazy dapper, but his mic was fucked up and he only got a few minutes onstage. I don't much like Common, but he is a commendably dedicated live performer, running around the stage and generally staying on beat, though he too insists on busting lame freestyles. The problem with multiple guest-star shows, though, is that they make it hard to see the actual headlining group; you're always looking off to the side of the stage and wondering who's going to come on next, like it's a pro-wrestling match that you know is going to end in outside interference. And it doesn't much help that all the guest rappers except Kweli are exponentially more charismatic than Black Thought.

Still, this was a Roots show, not too different from all the other Roots shows I've seen over the years. It started out particularly strong, with just Thought and ?uestlove onstage, doing a fierce runthrough of "Web." By the third song, though, ?uestlove was doing dueling drum-solos with the percussionist, and things were back to normal. The first time I saw the Roots, all the solos just about took the top of my head off, but that was eight years ago, and Hub is still playing the same damn five-minute bass solo. By this point, they've spent so many years touring that anyone with even a passing interest in seeing the group live has already seen them a couple of times, and these naked displays of virtuosity aren't surprising anymore. They played with a bigger band than usual last night, fourteen musicians onstage including DJ Jazzy Jeff, but it didn't add much to the show beyond a cluttered mix. The one big difference was Rahzel. Every time I've seen the Roots live before, they've had DJ Scratch as their beatbox, and that guy is incredible. But Rahzel's solo is just breathtaking; there's no way to figure out how that guy is doing all that stuff with just his mouth. He talked like a magician ("Ladies and gentlemen, the beat and the chorus at the same time!"), and he did a riduculously great mini-set of old dancehall songs, somehow reproducing the beats and the vocals simultaneously. For the last hour of the show, he was the only star onstage.

Oh, and Dave Chappelle and Erykah Badu walked out onstage just as the show was ending. They didn't do anything.

Voice review: Oliver Wang on the Roots' The Tipping Point
Voice review: Dave Tompkins on the Roots' Phrenology
Voice review: Miles Marshall Lewis on the Roots' Things Fall Apart

Comments (44) Write Comment
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More About:

  • Questlove
  • The Roots (Musical Group)
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  • Talib Kweli
  • Hip-Hop and Rap

Comments (44)

BCTW says:

Just because you've seen the Roots a zillion times doesn't mean it's not the first time for someone else. So why reduce the solos as "not surprising," as opposed to acknowledging them as an integral part of each Roots show?

And as far as your cavalier comments about Slum Village, you continue to prove more and more why he you're not the best qualified person for this job.

And then you dis Kweli for not being able to ride a beat? Huh? When did that happen? Talib has perfected his flow and got it down to a fine science. I'm not his biggest fan but if there's one thing he can do it is flow on a beat, and damn near any beat for that matter.

And then you dis the dudes freestyling, calling them "lame" and "weak ass". You might need to enroll in some Hiphop appreciation classes, or log on to KRS' Temple of Hiphop Kulture Web site and do the knowledge.

By the way, why were you upset at a show that featured everybody it listed on the bill? Why were you expecting more? Lupe? Kanye? Jay? Rae and Ghost (WTF??)? Why would you expect them? Just because it happened at a Jay show? What does that have to do with a Roots show? Can't wait to read the next blog...

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 9:56AM
MattyGilmo says:

I'm seeing the Roots (with Common and Jean Grae) on Saturday night at the House of Blues, and it'll be my first time seeing any of those acts. I'm pumped -- the first two acts are among my favorite hip-hop artists of all-time.

However, I too was confused by the comments about Kweli--last time I checked he had one of the best flows in the game, but maybe I'm just an idiot.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 10:14AM
brentstarks says:

I have no idea if the freestyle was wack, but the idea that Kweli's "best verse ever" is on a kanye track deserves a response.

Have you heard Blackstar? "K.O.S." ("because you put the hue in human"), "Thieves in the night," "Respiration."

Or Reflection Eternal? expanding on Nina Simone lyrics, "Good Mourning" ("now the people that you love bear the pain that you once harbored, you were living for yourself so you could never be a martyr, life is hard death is harder, you somebody baby father, someone's lover, son of your mother, somebody brother . . . .")

With his catalogue, that is a bold statement. And to point to his verse on get em' high? In my opinion, not even close.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 10:18AM
brentstarks says:

btw - to prevent confusion, the nina simone track is the outro, not "good mourning"

I was pointed to both tracks.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 10:20AM
mhatkinson says:

"Black Thought isn't a particularly compelling rapper on record"

Huh? Am reading that correctly? OK, junior, I've had about enough. Go home, put on your Biggie or Tupac CD and please don't review hip hop shows (or albums) again. Thanks in advance.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 10:44AM
Tom Breihan says:

Kweli can't ride beats. He just crams as many syllables as he can into every line like the Micro Machines guy or some shit. He's totally rhythmless. And I think his Nina Simone/"hue in human" lines are crazy pretentious; he sounds a lot better when he's actally having fun.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 11:14AM
eauhellzgnaw says:

Predictable. I could have told you that you wouldn't like this show: there was only 1 rapper who talks about selling crack. The others have many fans who are college kids and rap novices--you have to separate yourself from them, don't you? (although your rap IQ seems to start with Biggie). This is all about image: the silly exaggerated blackness amidst a sea of white fans might rub you the wrong way (it's not "authentic"), who knows?

(I actually also share your distate for Kweli--but it's not because he can't ride a beat--The Streets can't ride a beat. It's because he's a hit or miss rapper hyped up by people who think he's "a revolutionary.")

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 11:18AM
razethat says:

Common is nice. Too bad he's a sellout. Mos Def is nice, too. Too bad he's a sellout, too. Kweli was never that nice-- I seen six million mediocre ass underground college MCs whose style is exactly the same.
The Roots are classic, but I think it might be gettin close to the time for them to call it a career.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 3:23PM
Anger Unmanaged says:

Ya know it's good to read the opinions of someone who touts Lil' Wayne's coming into his own (on his fuckin' fourth album no less, which means his other garbage should've remained unreleased) and loves the brilliant Crack Snowman muthafucka from Georgia.

Maybe the Voice should spring for a critic and dump this ghetto hip-hop fetishizer they got.

Perhaps Stephin Merritt is available.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 4:15PM
bsidewinzagain says:

Confirms my theory that if its not a coon show, Tom doesn't like it. God forbid hip hop artists not be reaffirming every stereotype of black people that ignorant white people have.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 4:47PM
bsidewinzagain says:

i think my comments were a bit out of line. just want to apologize for that. my last comment criticizes the artists, something that i am not trying to do. if you wanna know how i really feel, check out my blog.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 6:54PM
Serious says:

"All the guest rappers except Kweli are exponentially more charismatic than Black Thought." "In a charitable moment, he also called Black Thought "one of the most incredible lyricists in the game."

Tom, there are two things that you obviously don't - but need to - know. (1) Real hip hop supporters don't give a s**t about "charisma." We give a s**t about what an emcee sends into the mic. Period. If you want to be taken seriously, nix the cosmetic fixations ("brow-furrowed formalism?" WTF?) (2) What you call charitable moment was actually a truthful one. (Is there some reason why you think Nas is blowing Black Thought, or ...)

I mean, What? He take your woman? Refuse to give you an autograph or play a Hampton party? Your last name, and your use of phrases like "totally awesome" and "badass," lead me to assume that you're white, so I'll let you in on something. There is a very fine line between that "keep-it-real," pull-no-punches, critical journalistic mode that you seem to be going for, and the kind of disrespect that might earn you an a*s whipping.

At any rate, I'd pay YOU $10 to DEFINE a jazz/funk organ fill.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 8:10PM
Tom Breihan says:

And you know he's serious because his name is Serious.

Posted On: Friday, May. 19 2006 @ 8:16PM
Serious says:

Snappy comeback. I guess you told me. The name is Steve Burks. Black man, white name. "Ex-farm machinery," as your kind would say. Want to keep playing the I'm-witty game, or you ready to f**k off?

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 12:04AM
eauhellzgnaw says:

"Real hip hop supporters don't give a s**t about "charisma." We give a s**t about what an emcee sends into the mic. Period."

^^^
This is wrong. Charisma is one of the most important elements of being a good vocalist in any genre, which is why The Streets is fucking awful and his worshippers have terrible taste (sorry to harp on his suckiness).


And Breihan, instead of lobbing insignificant, snarky comments from the sidelines, why not address the criticism head on?

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 12:12AM
Serious says:

eauhellzgnaw, what do you mean by "charisma?" Dictionary definition? If so, then it doesn't occur to me how that applies to musical performance, which is about sound and meaning. Is it synonymous with exciting quality or something? Rakim was monotone. You sure you want to go there? We talking about vocal timbre here, or what? Just curious.

I think the neglect of lyrics is partially the result of the emphasis on such X-factor, vague aspects of performance as "charisma." We throw terms like that around, but ... I know that effective art is more than the some of his parts. But we're talking about hip hop. Let's just begin with ITS actual parts. Ideas, words, then rhythm, THEN maybe voice, and get progressively more abstract from there. As far as Mr. Breihan's little ad-hominem swipe, people sink to the I-know-you-are-but-what am-I mode when they run out of ground. All honesty, had it been me, I also might have made a comment that played to my readers and trivialized my target - setting up an us-versus-him perceptual framework and showing how unaffected I was. It was understated, subtextual, brief. Now that I think about it, got to give it to him. Too bad that caliber of thinking and expression didn't find its way into his piece.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 1:18AM
dollar_wells says:

From suuurrrrious' website:

Three projects, FOLLOW THE FIRE (gospel), LOOK AT HER (r&b), and TRUTH IS HARDER THAN DIAMONDS (rap) are available for free download...

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 3:45AM
theRootsmadeUeatUrwords says:

Maybe you should use google and get an updated picture of the band. Maybe you should of went to she show on Friday night? Maybe you would of saw Jay-Z, Maybe you would of saw one of the greatest entrance and exits of a live show, Maybe you would of saw Slum Village, Mos Def, Erykah Badu and others all performing to a standing room onlyl crowd, Maybe I am the best thing to ever happend to the internet, Maybe this guy should have your job because he knows how to write a story with out snarky standard trying to hard to sound like a up tight journalist remarks.http://www.musicsnobbery.com/2006/05/the_roots_compa.html
Maybe if you would went to Friday nights show you would of seen all of the acts parade off stage with a marching band at the end through the crowd while the crowd went crazy. Maybe Black Thought started the show Marching in from the front with a megaphone rapping with ?uest on drums behind him followed by a marching band. Maybe just maybe I need to go read something else. Maybe just Maybe a village voice review could sound like it was written by an adult with adult criticism and not a shock writer who can only get people to read him because of the insults ones throws and not ones talented writing. Maybe this comment is too long and I need to go to the bathroom. Maybe, just maybe.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 10:30AM
Tom Breihan says:

If the Friday night show was good, I'm glad. It's not like I was trying not to like the Thursday one; it just didn't come together right. ?uesto has basically said as much on his MySpace blog.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 10:57AM
Serious says:

Help, folks. Some cat named Wells Dunbar posted this about me:

"From suuurrrrious' website:

Three projects, FOLLOW THE FIRE (gospel), LOOK AT HER (r&b), and TRUTH IS HARDER THAN DIAMONDS (rap) are available for free download..."

I don't get it. Other than the country-black jab, what's the punchline? Maybe it went over my head. Thanks in advance.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 1:07PM
tru blu says:

Yeah, Fri was much better, and I wish cats would cut Black Thought some slack. He's real old-school, like a great singer in a great old big band: confident, deft and charismatic enough to stand in front of the band, and confident, deft and humble enough to know when to get the fuck out of the way. For too many years the Roots couldn't figure out whether they were supposed to be his group or if he was window dressing like Kamal's chords, but last night they functioned like the great house band in a soul revue. (It helps the image that sometimes they used "Black Betty" and Ray Charles' "I Got A Woman" as connective threads between songs.) What I could have done without were Dave Chappelle's increasingly bitter-ass routine about Iceberg Slim--yeah, yeah, Dave, you walked away from a lot of money; but are you REALLY out of options?--and Bilal putting the audience to sleep with a Radiohead cover. (He woke 'em up again with one of his own songs.) Erykah was, to put it simply--and quote Thought--"black gold, Texas tea." And boy, does that Jigga know how to make an entrance. I don't think all the bullshit regional stripper hiphop is going away anytime soon, but if Jay-Z and ?uestlove keep working together, at least there'll be some shit worth getting excited about.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 1:46PM
BLACK THOUGHT says:

whats good man? Black thought here. im sorry you werent feeling the show on thurs. it didnt go as we had planned or rehearsed it. 1st night glitches in a foreign venue. we were a lil disappointed but i didnt think we had let our audience down. Couple things real quick tho; i dont concern myself w being a "star." everybody's a star. im a man. im an artist. im an mc. i dont strive for that star recognition. i do my shows, speak my mind, make my money. i value my privacy and the ability to walk around in the street without being "spotted." i do, however strive to master my craft and as far as this rapping thing is concerned. Im a master. all ego and conceit aside, .. i do this homie. you doubt me? might i suggest that ye of little faith put up some serious paper and your favorite mc? im here. and as far as nas' moment of charity. .. he looked at the audience, drew a blank and forgot his lyrics to the world is yours. him biggin me up was his way of asking me to help him find his place, which was no problem. me being the level headed master mc that i am... i coverred for him and it came off waaaay smoother than if id just let him freeze in front of the whole new york.(we all forget lyrics sometime.) nas said im one of the best cuz thats real rap and he aint no fool, nor was that his 1st time tellin me that. dont try to downplay a real compliment from one genius to another as a moment of charity. basically there are a few things you said in your review that id kinda like to address. you wanna chop it up? we can communicate via this voice blog thing, myspace, or u can email me your number and meet me in person at a show/wherever. maybe i can answer some questions u might have and vice versa. ...till we meet- Black

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 2:56PM
Serious says:

Pseudo-journalistic cats talking 'cause they got lips and a platform. Better listen to Ra and know the ledge.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 5:51PM
dollar_wells says:

Ethered in my inbox!

From Mr. Serious...

"Then again, I'm not so stable myself, so ... weigh it out. People online and on highways say and do s**t that they wouldn't otherwise have the balls to. There is no anonymity. As long as you're aware of that, then go for it.

S. Burks"

I don't want to harp on this, but since you pointed it out, I pasted the text from your website, because, yeah, some of the names are a little funny. But I mainly did it becuase I'm pissed at all the hate on the site here, mainly stemming from the fact that Tom is white, and hence, therefore unqualified in some eyes to review rap. Maybe he fetishizes the thug element a wee bit too much, but he's also quick to say what doesn't work -- i.e., Rick Ross.
Said detractors, i.e., you, are then quick to drop inscindiary shit like 'country black.' What the fuck is that? You just wrote you were from Dallas -- I didn't know, don't care, and the more I think about it, why are you even jabbering about his Roots review if you were half a continent away??? Because 'conscious' harbingers of bunk albums (Talib) aren't automatically afforded a 4-star review? Also, 'charisma' matters, sometimes more than words. People look to Pac as the second coming, but at the end of the day, what is he more remembered for -- his incredible persona and swagger, or his more 'lyrical' 5th grade poetry workshop stylings (The rose that grew from concrete -- I rest my case)??? And yes, seeing as you are a music promoter yourself, I feel you should recognize this. And no, it's more than whether your voice is monotone.
That's all I got. No hate.

Roots put on a monster live show -- respect to Black Thought -- but read Kelefa Sanneh's review of the same concert. Reads the same. Or is he unqualified too?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/20/arts/music/20root.html

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 6:06PM
Serious says:

"I pasted the text from your website, because, yeah, some of the names are a little funny."

And that has what to do with this subject?

"Tom is white, and hence, therefore unqualified in some eyes to review rap. Maybe he fetishizes the thug element a wee bit too much, but he's also quick to say what doesn't work -- i.e., Rick Ross."

I didn't know there were degrees of qualification. What, I'm supposed to look past the fact your boy "fetishizes the thug element a wee bit too much," as you so eloquently put it?
"I'm not a dead beat. Sure, I beat my wife, but I also bought her some flowers ..." Are we actually having this exchange?

"'country black.' What the fuck is that?"

The dumb-ass shit you implied with your little "suuuurious" thing. Did you really think that wouldn't be offensive? You know what, maybe you are stupid.

It's a trip that after the long-ass, awkwardly constructed spiel you just hit me with - when I wasn't communicating with you in the FIRST fucking place - you would even TYPE the word "jabbering."

"it's more than whether your voice is monotone."

What is IT? Don't have me deciphering your pronouns. I expressed what I meant the first time. Real hip hop supporters don't give a shit about "charisma." We give a shit about what an emcee sends into the mic. Period.

I presume that Tom is a grown man; he can and has spoken for himself. Why are you playing bulldog? He your buddy? Are YOU white and this shit is hitting close to home?

And as far as I'm concerned, it's all hate. You don't know me like dat. Keep my name off your fucking keyboard.

The blah-blah ends here. Consider Ice-T's words. "Here's a new rule, starting tonight/ Dis me on a record? See me? Fight."

Same goes for blogs.

We done? Or you wanna go a little further?

~Steve "Surrrrrious" Burks

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 6:47PM
bsidewinzagain says:

i'm not criticizing tom because he doesn't give kweli 4 star reviews. i don't give kweli 4 star reviews. this show might have sucked. it might have been great and tom thought it sucked. but that's not the issue.

its his tone. he dismisses everything that isn't 3-6 and its kin as irrelevant. and he unapologetically cosigns music which is laden with problems and refuses to acknowledge those problems.

rather than address these issues, the breihan-defenders make it out to be a race issue--that detractors attack tom because he's white. nothing could be further from the truth. i respect many non-black hip hop critics. i just don't respect those who refuse to acknowledge that their race may factor into their critiques.

this is the standard argument that most white hip hop fans have been making forever in their neverending attempts at acceptance in the hip hop culture. i've been having this argument with white backpackers for years already. in their attempts to adopt (and co-opt) the culture, they play down race as a non-issue.

and they are wrong.

tom cannot possibly expect to get respect from people who really appreciate hip hop if he looks at rap in the same way he looks at emo.

you can't be a white critic of the music and ignore the racial implications of the things you say.

therein lies the problem....

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 7:01PM
bsidewinzagain says:

and if that was really black thought posting, i'm a little disappointed that he even acknowledged this clown. he obviously hasn't read his shit before....

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 7:04PM
Serious says:

bsidewinzagain, you're absolutely right. This conversation is as old is dirt. I'm disappointed with myself for responding to it. I know I haven't read any of this guy's writing on hip hop before. Live and learn. For the record, that wasn't a poser.

Posted On: Saturday, May. 20 2006 @ 7:12PM
charlesxavier says:

Does anybody do rabid reductionism better than an online hip-hop fan? "I hold in my hands the ONLY definition of hip-hop-- All other experiences are invalid and definitely racist!"

You can't wipe Tom's POV off the planet with guilt or shame-- I don't care how Will High you're Willing to get. Pick a better weapon, youngs.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 21 2006 @ 5:30PM
charlesxavier says:

"tom cannot possibly expect to get respect from people who really appreciate hip hop if he looks at rap in the same way he looks at emo."

Fully brilliant, bsidez. If the hip-hop is on the shelf at the music store with a price tag on it, geniuses who appoint themselves to represent "people who really appreciate hip hop" do not get to determine what the "correct" way is for others to relate to that particular piece of art. Trust me, NONE of the artists you admire want a world where only people who see hip-hop with your kind of tunnel-vision are allowed to talk about it.

You should check out Kweli's REAL best verse and get back to us.

and before I jet a thought for Black Thought: an artist trying to talk it out with a journalist is like ordering a Big Mac at a sushi bar on Jupiter. Good luck dude.

Posted On: Sunday, May. 21 2006 @ 6:26PM
jayson greene says:

"[Breihan] unapologetically cosigns music which is laden with problems and refuses to acknowledge those problems."

As a fan of this blog and longtime fan of Breihan's writing, I will say that while he doesn't exactly come off as unapologetic on the above issues -- he's alluded to some queasiness here and there, talking about "free passes" given to misogynist shit, and references discomfort with Too Short's degradation of women in his Lupe Fiasco review -- I do think his continued and somewhat cavalier dissing of Okayplayer rap, while often valid, is starting to smack of bully pulpit and does begin to beg some sort of clarification on his obviously strongly held stance on these issues. He's leaving himself open to the sort of despicable rank-pulling some of the commenters here are pulling -- "go home, white boy, you don't understand this mass-marketed worldwide phenomeon as well as I and my illusory community does." Don't leave yourself open to the accusation that you only embrace "coon shows" by not addressing some at least some of the world of problems that arise from a white kid getting paid to write copiously about the gangsta rap of Ice Cube and others. You've already acknowledged the existence of such problems; now it would help if you clarified your stance.

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 10:46AM
ricky d says:

Maybe ?uestlove should get one of these:

http://www.cafepress.com/stopkvetchin

I mean, if snitching is the coke rappers' biggest problem, I think we all know what underground rappers most abhor.

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 11:58AM
Serious says:

Jayson Greene, your comment is the second of only two that read as being balanced, truthful, and accurate, both about what Mr. Breihan wrote, and what us "rank-pullers" had to say about it. I also give you credit for making your bias known up front ("longtime fan of Breihan's writing"). Still, for me anyway, your statement reads like an attempt at saying exactly what he said, with a veneer of objectivity; you play down his violations with language like "doesn't exactly come off as ...," and "SOMEWHAT cavalier dissing." Then you chase these with a "while often valid," embedded in the subject section of the sentence (any writer worth his salt has used, or seen used, the term "while" as a mitigator of the weight of what proceeds).

"Leaving himself open" means he's not REALLY out of line or misinformed, but us Mow-Mows are just touchy, looking for an excuse to pick on the poor, innocent Anglo who is merely sharing his Constitutionally protected opinion; therefore, he just needs to watch his wording, or condescend a tad bit by sprinkling in a few cues to supposed objectivity.

Like you just did.

Then your real position surfaces. The "illusory community." i.e. we don't exist. Or we're erecting imaginary partitions between ourselves (black people) and the rest of the world, trying to impede the global growth of hip hop, out of ... what? Insecurity? And when you insinuate that a group of people is an "illusion," does it occur to you that it might be profoundly idiotic? Of course I'm misinterpreting what you said, right? There's no other possiblility. I MUST be getting you wrong.

Let's go off script here. I'll stop "opening myself up" (that is handy) to being painted as the angry black rapper, who suspects that all white intellectuals with an interest in hip hop intend to propagate black-buck-coon animalism by handing out four-star reviews to 50 Cent.

You stop feinting historical amnesia and dismissing ambivalence from my illusory community, reducing complaints about this clown (lapse in diplomacy) to some knee-jerk, "go home white boy" shit, i.e. reverse discrimination.

You cannot reverse something that was not first moving in the other direction. Okay?

I only bothered to respond because your two cents reflected a degree of thoughtfulness - mild spin aside. You got your boy's back, I got mine. Can't fault you 'cause I did the same thing. Now, you want to get to the heart of the matter?

Peace and Respect,
Steve Burks

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 12:46PM
Serious says:

Charles Xavier, okay. Let's play the name game. I'll be the guilt-trip wielding, rabid reductionist. You be the self-deluded, rank-and-file pawn of cultural-supremist puppetmasters.

Wanna get "Socratic" with this, or keep playing red-states, blue-states? Come on dude. My even finding this blog was an accident, but there's potential here for meaningful exchange. Let it out easy, and take a few extra minutes to locate some points of rationale for your opinions, before you get diarrhea of the fingers. (Image sucks, but you know what I mean.)

Peace and Respect,
Steve Burks

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 1:06PM
jayson greene says:

"therefore, he just needs to watch his wording, or condescend a tad bit by sprinkling in a few cues to supposed objectivity."

Thanks for the thoughtful response, and a number of your points are taken, but I never said the above. I don't think that would be at all adequate, and he would need to do quite a bit more than pay lip service to objectivity like I did. I'm not getting paid by an influential alternative weekly to write about this stuff; I'm just one of the "dickface fruitflies" (one of his endearments) who follows what he says and occasionally comments. What I said was that he should "clarify his position," which would mean considerably more than idle sniping at a set of artists or "condescending a tad bit to sprinkle in a few cues to supposed objectivity." It would be fairly in-depth, a look at privilege, viewpoint, etc., all that shit that comes into play in this discussion. I don't know if he's REALLY misinformed about hip-hop basics; he seems to know quite a bit, and I can tell that he writes honestly from a sincere and longtime love of the music. You condemned him for being misinformed and called him a clown; I was trying to point out that perhaps this was a mite intemperate/uncalled for given what he's actually SAID. IT's called the "benefit of the doubt."

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 2:14PM
dollar_wells says:

Jesus Christ people. GYOFB.

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 2:22PM
SolTaino360 says:

Enough already, Jayson. In a previous blog post you said my comments were "internet hating", which is funny because I would definitely let Tom know my thoughts in person (fair warning if Tom's ever on a panel as some Hip Hop expert). However, there's nothing more unbecoming than an internet dickrider, please detach yourself from Tom's nuts!

Oh yea, and to sprinkle a few clues to prove my objectivity, Kweli has a horrible flow and Tom's dead on about him live and on wax. His shit sounds like alphabet soup and scrabble vomited up....sorry to the rawkus internet contingent, go back to listening to ben harper, aesop rock, or whatever you liked in college.

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 3:51PM
phizzy says:

Let me start by stating that i'm a black dude and a fan of Tom's column. I don't agree with everything he says, but I think his overall point of view is valid. One thing I take issue with is the idea that he and other writers aren't addressing the "problematic" aspects of "crack rap", mainly because virtually all hip-hop could be labeled as such. A large part of the music's appeal is it's contradictory nature as personified by it's biggest icon Tupac Shakur. Hip-Hop never lets it's listeners of the hook as far as moral dilemmas are concerned, "conscience rap" is no exception. A great deal of such music is lazily labled as progressive, even while taking a deeply conservative stance on issues like: religion, women's roles, gays, interracial relationships, AIDS, and abortion. And almost every "conscince" rapper I've heard has endorsed some sort of racist crackpot cospiracy theory that's just as much a hindrance to black people being taking seriously as a marathon of "lil' Jon" videos.

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 4:10PM
jayson greene says:

I love it when the 37 commenter tells the 36th commentor to get off the blogger's nuts.

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 4:26PM
bsidewinzagain says:

"Trust me, NONE of the artists you admire want a world where only people who see hip-hop with your kind of tunnel-vision are allowed to talk about it."

This comment expresses EXACTLY whats wrong with the world of hip hop blogging. You have no clue which artists I admire. The only thing I've been trying to say is that Tom praises negative depictions of black people and I think for a white critic, that that is not okay.

But you think because that I'm attacking an writer who praises commercial hip hop, that I am a backpacker and am some "real hip hop" wacko. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There are only 2 ways to interpret someone's opinion according to you--as a backpacker or as a commercial head. I'm neither. But you don't want to see the point of what I'm trying to say so you will refute my points by trying to label me as some backpacker.

Do that if you wish. But you are fully missing the point....In fact, you didn't even address it. Neither did Tom in fact. Too afraid to admit that maybe there is a problem with his commentary on hip hop....

Posted On: Monday, May. 22 2006 @ 6:41PM
islenyo says:

when did this turn into okayplayer.com? All the mulletees are very scared right now. This chaos is actually a pleasure to read. Though Thought is undoubtedly one of the illest ever, (of no relation, but notably recently found time for the gun talk) he like all these other cats is taking this shit way too seriously. This is a fucking blog not the Voice's print edition by any stretch of the imagination!

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 23 2006 @ 6:55PM
kevin says:

For the record, Talib's flow is horrible and an incredible waste of a great mind. Nonetheless, Tom definitely needs to address the horrible double-standard he seems to use in evaluating "backpack" vs. "crack" rap. His criticisms of various backpack rappers often seem like they would logically apply with equal force to many of the consensus legends of rap, and his personal favorites like early Brand Nubian. However, I am also concerned about how freely some of the commentators here have felt to essentialize Tom's flaws to his racial identity. Aren't you overlooking the fact that many, many black listeners have similar views/preferences/opinions regarding this dichotomy? When I'm with my family in Trenton, friends in NY or at a party in DC, damn near nobody is checking for the Roots (my favorite group of all-time behind the Wu), Talib or Common over D-Block, TI or G-Unit (who I abhor). Why pretend it's just a white thing?? Aren't most Common and Roots fans white anyway (generalizing from the several shows I've caught personally)? I don't get it.

And Bside, you can't have it both ways: if it's a coon show, it's a coon show-- you can't dis the writer for liking a coon show and divorce that from any disrespect to the artists. Otherwise we have to blame Soulplane and movies of that ilk wholly on white folks too.

I also give Tom the benefit of the doubt for his consistent support of Ghostface, a rapper who tends to sit outside the confines of the crack v. backpack debate. Sorry for the unedited ramblings,
Kevin

Posted On: Friday, May. 26 2006 @ 12:35AM
Reformed Whigger says:

I love the way my name gets dropped here.

I didn't read all of your whiny, estrogen laden rants to get the full gist of it all, but the context I inferred from the mere cursory perusal it most likely deserved, is that most of you are overeducated faggots, punks, and niggers (in that respective order) that sit in your dorm rooms and cry over these inconsequential bagatelles like a bunch of 6 year-old girls with skinned knees.

You should leave these Philadelphia negroes to their music making and find a worthwhile hobby that doesn't involve you having your heads up your overly-sensitive asses all of the time.

Posted On: Thursday, Jun. 15 2006 @ 2:26PM
fuck you says:

ur fucked quit mouthin roots kweli and slum get a fuckin ,life faggot

Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 6 2008 @ 1:36PM

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