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Jim Jones Obliterates Jay-Z

Posted by Tom Breihan at 6:22 PM, November 20, 2006

kingdom.jpg
Cock-a-doodle-doo, fuckers

Talking about their feud in recent interviews, Jay-Z and Jim Jones both sound like fans. On Hot 97, Jay-Z compared Jones' attacks to a bench player booing his team's star, said that rap needs a board of directors to keep people from pulling dumb shit like that. Or here's Jones, talking to Allhiphop.com: "I listened to his album. I'd say there was about two songs on there that was decent ... I was really disappointed in the album, man. You know?" (They're both right, but nevermind.) Talking about each other, neither one shows the fire of, say, Baby telling XXL that he hates B.G. and Mannie Fresh and Juvenile with all his soul, that he despises everything those guys stand for. Jay-Z and Jim Jones both seem to be looking at this feud with a sort of cool remove, like they don't have all that much invested in it personally but they're interested to see how it plays out.

It's hard to imagine Jim Jones getting his feelings hurt by all this; he doesn't really have anything to lose. When Jones first explicitly bashed Jay on wax a month or so ago, it looked like a sort of foolish, quixotic move. Cam'ron had tried the same thing earlier in the year, and Jay had absolutely buried him just by refusing to respond. Cam's about fifteen times the rapper that Jones is, but Cam's attack, with its unlistenable hook and its lame punchlines about sandals, was almost shockingly feeble. When Jay didn't respond, Cam looked desperate for attention, a little kid yelling that he hated his teacher. Jay's silence had an audible effect on Cam; he followed the track up with a halfhearted freestyle over Yung Joc's "It's Goin' Down," of all things, and he sounded resigned and depressed, possibly even making fun of himself with that line about how the only G4 he's on is a laptop. When Jay finally got around to addressing Cam on "Dig a Hole," he didn't have a whole lot to say, but he'd already won, so it didn't much matter. Jay played that attack so perfectly that it's truly bizarre to see him getting so huffy about a dis track from Jim Jones, the worst rapper in a crew of shitty rappers. By acknowledging Jones' existence, he's already fucked up. By retaliating with a freestyle over the beat to Jones' song, flipping Jones' catchphrase and leaving Jones' voice on the hook, Jay's pretty much admitted defeat. And because Jay's freestyle is going to get plenty of radio play, it'll only serve to boost the spin-count on Jones' only hit and drive it even further up the charts. "We Fly High" is a truly awful song, and it's only managed to become a success because there aren't a whole lot of great rap singles out now and because it's got a memorable catchphrase that's fun to yell. So Jones has managed to turn himself into a blip on the cultural radar through sheer luck and timing, and now Jay-Z is prolonging Jones' fifteen minutes by treating him as a worthy adversary. Jay's made so many tactical errors in this whole thing that you'd think he'd never been through a public rap feud before; it's simply amazing that he's lost his perspective so completely that he'd let Jones' attack get under his skin at all. And Jones knows it; in the Allhiphop interview, he talks about how all this nonsense is only going to further help him. It's Christmas morning for him, and he also lets us know how much he loves Christmas.

If Jay had actually managed to bury Jones with his attack, maybe he'd still come out looking OK, but substituting "Brooklyn" for "Ballin'" isn't going to cut it. The semi-subliminal line about how "it's over for you dames" is the most memorable thing he has to say. He also makes completely ridiculous threats about shooting Jones, plugs his fake champagne, and gives a self-impressed "wow" after making a convoluted pun on the word Jones. Jones followed Jay's dis up on the same day, putting out another version of the track and serving the internet feeding-frenzy brilliantly. Jones makes the brilliant move of leaving Jay's vocals intact, sarcastically cheerleading Jay with devastating comic timing: "Let's go, Jay!," "I hear you!" Jones can't rap, and his follow-up verse doesn't have a single good line, but he's funny, and his ad-libs totally obliterate anything Jay might have on him: "Go old-head! Go old-head!," "Tell Nas buy you a kufi for Christmas so I could smack that shit off your head!," "If you would've just called me, I might've put you on the remix, let you say 'Ballin'!'" He doesn't sound like he's got his career on the line; he sounds like he's having fun. As a public figure, Jones is pretty much completely loathsome, a no-talent hanger-on who's managed to sell a few copies of his abysmal records by latching onto some of the right people and by coming up with a fun catchphrase. But he managed to attack Jay-Z, maybe the greatest rapper in history, at the exact moment when he was at his most vulnerable, when he was getting ready to come out of his fake retirement with an album of boring entitlement and out-of-character self-doubt. Jones has created a sort of reactionary persona, the young outlaw who can't believe that this pathetic old man is getting so soft, playing brash and ruthless where Jay is lazy and out-of-touch. In his great Times article, Kelefa Sanneh asks Jay whether the fifteen-year-old Jay would've had any use for Kingdom Come, and Jay basically dodges the question. Jones is playing a character that might as well be based on the fifteen-year-old Jay, and it would be hard to blame the actual fifteen-year-olds of the world if they found Jones' character more compelling than Jay's. So now Jim Jones has managed to instigate a beef with Jay-Z. And as of right now, he's winning. Welcome to Bizarro World.

comments

Great post Tom. I was thinking the same damn thing. Why would you respond to Jones when you killed Cam by just staying quiet and ignoring him? I will never understand this move.

Posted by: aholbert32 at November 20, 2006 7:33 PM

You start out by saying that Jones is playing the whole thing cool and that he doesn't really care about it, but then you go on to say that it is Christmas morning for him? I agree that he is and should be excited for Jay to say his name, but he definitely isn't playing it cool.

People out of NY keep acting like Capo and the Dips run the whole rap world, but in reality it is a NY only phenomenom. Sure, people like saying "Baaalllinn", but they don't care about Jimmy more than seeing what kind of dumb shit remark he is going to make next.

Jay has always responded to disses thrown at him- people jumped on his dick about ignoring Cam, but he did respond on the Hustlin remix. Jay is as competitive as they get and he isn't going to sit by the side and let dudes take shots at him with no repurcussions. And that whole "Jim will get more spins now" bullshit is ridiculous. It isn't like they are going to cake off of it... it is the flavor of the week song.

Posted by: G Off at November 20, 2006 7:51 PM

I'm just glad somebody acknowledged the universal shittiness of We Fly High. Such a crappy song.

Posted by: DocZeus at November 21, 2006 12:36 AM

Hey Tom, I liked your perspective on both Jones and Jay. I listened to Jay's new album and I agree that it's not up to speed. You get the feeling that he's distancing himself from his fans with lines like 'your girl shops at the mall my girl buys out bergdorffs'.

Not one song on that album hit me like 'Big Pimpin'or any of his past great hits.

Posted by: Zhan at November 21, 2006 6:51 AM

^^^ uses Big Pimpin' as the Jay-Z standard.

Posted by: cleofisrandolph at November 21, 2006 12:48 PM

I loved your post. It put a lot of insult into rap's most misunderstood turf - the diss song.

Posted by: Trey at November 21, 2006 1:38 PM

One of the wrong assumptions made by the author is ending by saying Jim Jones carries more weight with the 15 year-old rap fan. Fine. Jay is over thirty. I bought Reasonable Doubt in 8th grade. I'm 25 for Kingdom Come. Granted on first listening the album isn't the Blueprint, or Reasonable Doubt, but Jay sounds content with his place among the best MCs. My point is Jay has evolved with his fans over the years. I've went from wearing hoodies and jerseys, to rocking button-ups for the club on saturday night after a long work week. Any fans he picks up with this album is a bonus, but Im assuming most of the people that buy this album and enjoy it have been listening to Jay for a while.

Posted by: RaoulDuke at November 21, 2006 1:53 PM

Jay on this album was about 70% on some songs and 110 on others. I think certain songs he got even more lyrically complex and more reflective on society and himself than points on Reasonable Doubt and other great performances of his. But jay on an off day is still pretty damn good compared to other stuff. so take 70 and 110 and average it and the album is decent. It bangs. I wish Breihan would actually be around the scene of people that really live with this music. I can tell he doesn't feel the culture of the people who listen to the music he tries to critique (don't think hip hop culture specifically, think the culture of the people who listen to certain genres in general). He's only critic. And being nothing else, not being a lover of the music for what it is, is wack. I can tell because the people who think lilly Allen is the ish while they ish on other stuff are so retarded. (Sorry i'm just kind of mad that people aren't thinking kingdom come is dope when it really is.)

Posted by: Letters at November 21, 2006 1:54 PM

i haven't heard kingdom come yet, other than the single, which didn't suck, but certainly left something to be desired. i will say that all the mixtape is jay is dropping has been pretty average to wack. the hardest thing i heard him on recently was black republicans, and i believe that's going on the Nas album. but that's not really the point here. toms talkin bout this little beef with jim jones. obviously jim is winning this. this cat would prolly get ate up by an eight grader in a cipher, but he is spanking jigga. the quality of the jay's response shows he came in half cocked, and when jim used jay's verse, rapped after it, and put juelz on it and called it a remix... everybody paying atention is respecting Jim's gangster right now. somebody please change my mind, cuz i can't stand seeing this cat own ANY rapper, let alone a great like Hov.

Posted by: coqui at November 21, 2006 2:14 PM

I agree with all of this. You're a little behind the times; Cam released a response to Dig A Hole last night and it was absolutely horrendous. But a little factual correction- that line about the G4 on It's Going Down isn't meant to suggest that he can't afford a G4, but rather that he's on a G5, which is (if we're to believe Cam) some more expensive private plane. He also did have a pretty great line in there you didn't make mention of:

He's out of retirement,
Jordan on the Wizards

Which, after hearing Kingdom Come, is a pretty accurate and witty assessment of Jay at this point in his career. I should also state that, if you haven't gotten around to "buying" the new Jeezy/Drama mixtape yet, it's much better than that tortuously dull Clipse weedplate. "Ughhhhhh" is right.

Posted by: tray at November 21, 2006 3:04 PM

appaently jay may be working on an entire mixtape that will get at jones and/or dipset. anybody else think this is a horrible idea?

Posted by: coqui at November 21, 2006 5:06 PM

I gotta agree with you Tom. (On the wackness of Jay's album and the way this beef is playing out) But I personally think Jim Jones (while obviously not a skilled rapper) does have his merits. Call me crazy but I enjoy "We Fly High" and his album cut "Weathermen" with Weezy and Stack Bundles might be the greatest song I've heard in a long time. Lil Wayne sounds like a creature fresh out of Gremlins 2: The New Batch on that joint...

Posted by: Colin C. at November 22, 2006 3:51 AM

amen. i must say, this is completely out-of-character for jay to be throwing stones back at jones, but in all honesty, who would've thought that he would fail? his response was eh, and by simply attempting to bury jones, he looks like a fool. that was what was so classic about the cam'ron diss, as you put it, that jigga didn't even bother. i guess saying nothing is saying more

Posted by: steve horowitz at November 22, 2006 8:58 AM

Clearly...Jay has the right to say whatever he wants about anybody he wants. Now I am surprised that he did come at him, but seeing as Jim Jones is Camron's lackey..I hope eats him up and spits him out. Jim Jones is a rapper, not an MC , and other than the fact that he made his name on Camron's coat tails!

Posted by: Trudivine at November 27, 2006 9:56 PM

Clearly...Jay has the right to say whatever he wants about anybody he wants. Now I am surprised that he did come at him, but seeing as Jim Jones is Camron's lackey..I hope eats him up and spits him out. Jim Jones is a rapper, not an MC , and other than the fact that he made his name on Camron's coat tails!

Posted by: Trudivine at November 27, 2006 9:56 PM

Jay has always responded to disses. "Have we forgotten our history?"

Did Jay's lyrics kill Jones? You know they did. The question is, Did he really try to? Come on. This is crazy.

He didn't respond to Cam probably because that was personal, And You-Know-Who would have benefited. But I doubt Jones even knows Jay.

Jones is like that kid that just pushes his parent too far. You know, the tantrum you just can't ignore any longer.

I think the only reason why people are entertaining this beef is the same reason why Jay came back: The game hasn't been exciting since he left.

I mean, really...How do they know what type of shoes Jay is wearing on a beach...on vacation...in another country? That's sick. They're rappers/fans.

Kingdom Come shows growth. The only album you can compare it to is one of his own.

What is Hip Hop to you??? Hip Hop is not about record sales. It's about truth, and being able to express that in a way no other rapper can. To be able to do that effortlessly is a gift.

Respect Jay...Jigga...Hova...Sean...President Carter. He's earned it.

Posted by: miz lady at January 2, 2007 12:38 AM

Playing Monday morning QB I gotta assume that Hov figured he had had enough. How many emcees - especially of Jay-Z's caliber - are gonna let cats get at 'em without checkin' 'em even once? It was bound to happen and, as Tom said, it came at a prime time for Jay to come back with a response.
He didn't bury Jones like he should've, but he still ate him up. It's not like that We Fly High remix is getting a ton of spins out here in the west anyhow.

True, Jones worked Jay a bit, extending his 'lil 15 minutes of fame, but I figure Hov felt that airing his ass out was worth whatever extra spins that dumb ass excuse for a song was possibly gonna get.

As for "obliterating" Jigga, not so much (seriously?); all Jim Jones did was take a potential loss of yardage and turn it into a once-in-a-lifetime TD. LT this guy ain't. He's more like Vince Papale (the 30-yo walk-on) who played for the Eagles, but an asshole.

OH MY GOD - HOV

Posted by: uprise at January 8, 2007 3:44 AM

this is the realest thing i've ever read.

Posted by: Lo at October 5, 2007 3:01 PM

jayZ and jimmy are in tw0 different t0tally worlds...jayZ is a matuRe estableSHed rappEr whilE jimmy is a youngEr rappEr l0okin fOr attEntion...this "bEef" is as dumB as any sEx scAndal or rummoR...it's p0intlEss.

Posted by: cLAssIC at January 1, 2009 12:11 AM

Jay-z won this battle. and this is an old thread i know but kingdom come the ''shitty'' album went platinum and jay didnt even try on that shit.

Posted by: bigjames at April 21, 2009 1:14 PM

Honestly Jim jones is a joke so your exactly right when you say Jay shouldn't even bless him by saying that dudes name really....

Jay has had a far more successful career and has shit riding on his image were as Jim Jones can walk around with raggedy ass braids in his head and have the need to scream ballin like come on guy...we all know the rock is killin 'em and Jay really can do what he wants rather that be ignoring that lame or retaliate either way we know who is real!!!

Posted by: Fergie at June 12, 2009 2:47 PM

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